Jehovas Witness in Phuket

[NomadJoe]

I have had the visit too. It doesn't bother me in the least. I see it as a reflection of the freedom of religion in the society in which I live. A lot of places in the world they wouldn't allow it, and in some they would be killed for it.

freedom to dress up like an idiot and pretend you are the answer to all our prayers?

Essentially, yes. Being misguided, week-minded, desperate, deluded AND annoying is not yet illegal.

"I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend, to the death, your right to say it." -Voltaire

Religious nutters trying to recruit other weak minded people don't bother me. The tailor touts on the other hand...now those guys piss me off.

[uptheos]

Ringing doorbells gives raise to a lot of irritation, more intrusive than just hassling people on the street, like for instance Scientology, who for some reason always seemed to single me out.

Ring the doorbells a lot in your neighbourhood do they, well enough times to cause you stress?

Must be a neighbourhood that looks like it needs saving, with a lot of potential punters.

[eezergood]

Im feeling a little left out, they havent been anywhere near our house....... but we do have a dodgy church close by

[hansgruber]

Ringing doorbells gives raise to a lot of irritation, more intrusive than just hassling people on the street, like for instance Scientology, who for some reason always seemed to single me out.

Ring the doorbells a lot in your neighbourhood do they, well enough times to cause you stress?

Must be a neighbourhood that looks like it needs saving, with a lot of potential punters.

Its an intrusion.

Drop your religious information in the letter box if it makes you feel great in spreading the gospel but don't press the door bell wanting to discuss fictional characters in fairyland.

I like talking cars and bikes but you don't see me ringing door bells looking for someone to lend an ear.

[NamKangMan]

Ringing doorbells gives raise to a lot of irritation, more intrusive than just hassling people on the street, like for instance Scientology, who for some reason always seemed to single me out.

Ring the doorbells a lot in your neighbourhood do they, well enough times to cause you stress?

Must be a neighbourhood that looks like it needs saving, with a lot of potential punters.

Its an intrusion.

Drop your religious information in the letter box if it makes you feel great in spreading the gospel but don't press the door bell wanting to discuss fictional characters in fairyland.

I like talking cars and bikes but you don't see me ringing door bells looking for someone to lend an ear.

A little dramatic, Hans.

What about all the time share touts, all the suit tailors here, the slow loris and lizard guys here, the go-go show touts, the drivers say "tuk-tuk" every 10 meters, the guys walking around trying to sell you viagra, the kids selling flowers late at night, the bar girls grabing your wrist and trying to get yo into their bar, the vendors on the beach, the guys selliing fake watches and copy DVD's, all the beggers etc etc etc etc.

These Jehovas are the same, just trying to sell you some salvation. :)

[hansgruber]

Ringing doorbells gives raise to a lot of irritation, more intrusive than just hassling people on the street, like for instance Scientology, who for some reason always seemed to single me out.

Ring the doorbells a lot in your neighbourhood do they, well enough times to cause you stress?

Must be a neighbourhood that looks like it needs saving, with a lot of potential punters.

Its an intrusion.

Drop your religious information in the letter box if it makes you feel great in spreading the gospel but don't press the door bell wanting to discuss fictional characters in fairyland.

I like talking cars and bikes but you don't see me ringing door bells looking for someone to lend an ear.

A little dramatic, Hans.

What about all the time share touts, all the suit tailors here, the slow loris and lizard guys here, the go-go show touts, the drivers say "tuk-tuk" every 10 meters, the guys walking around trying to sell you viagra, the kids selling flowers late at night, the bar girls grabing your wrist and trying to get yo into their bar, the vendors on the beach, the guys selliing fake watches and copy DVD's, all the beggers etc etc etc etc.

These Jehovas are the same, just trying to sell you some salvation. :)

Never had a Tuk Tuk driver come knock and ask if I wanted one, neither has the Bangladeshi rag trader trying to fit me for a suit at my front door.

If a Jehovah stop me in the street I would extend them the same courtesy as I do the touts, tailors and Tuk Tuk drivers, ignore them and keep walking.

[NamKangMan]

@ hansgruber

So ignore them and close the door. Problem solved.

My point being, it might happen once every 5 years, not like the other pests I mentioned. If it happened on a weekly basis, I would agree with you.

I'm sure you have seen the monks here go door to door, in the early hours of the morning.

Edited January 2, 2014 by NamKangMan

[hansgruber]

@ hansgruber

So ignore them and close the door. Problem solved.

My point being, it might happen once every 5 years, not like the other pests I mentioned. If it happened on a weekly basis, I would agree with you.

You're comparing apples to oranges.

Touts and the social miscreants you speak of don't annoy me because for starters I don't live in Patong, secondly, they do not knock on doors.

I'd actually prefer suit man knocking at my door, at least he has something tangible for sale unlike the Jehovah selling false hope.

[stevenl]

Ringing doorbells gives raise to a lot of irritation, more intrusive than just hassling people on the street, like for instance Scientology, who for some reason always seemed to single me out.

Ring the doorbells a lot in your neighbourhood do they, well enough times to cause you stress?

Must be a neighbourhood that looks like it needs saving, with a lot of potential punters.

Drop your religious information in the letter box if it makes you feel great in spreading the gospel but don't press the door bell wanting to discuss fictional characters in fairyland.

And that is exactly what the JW in the OP were doing. So even according to you this is a non-event.

[hansgruber]

Ringing doorbells gives raise to a lot of irritation, more intrusive than just hassling people on the street, like for instance Scientology, who for some reason always seemed to single me out.

Ring the doorbells a lot in your neighbourhood do they, well enough times to cause you stress?

Must be a neighbourhood that looks like it needs saving, with a lot of potential punters.

Drop your religious information in the letter box if it makes you feel great in spreading the gospel but don't press the door bell wanting to discuss fictional characters in fairyland.

And that is exactly what the JW in the OP were doing. So even according to you this is a non-event.

I've had them at my door twice this year. Numerous more times I have had the propaganda material in my mailbox.

The topic is titled " Jehovah in Phuket" which I'm am sticking to unlike yourself with your volunteer moderation of the forum.

[NamKangMan]

@ hansgruber

Hans, you must live in a bad neighbourhood.

Maybe you should move to the affluent area of Patong. We don't get the Jehovas around here. :)

[eezergood]

@ hansgruber

Hans, you must live in a bad neighbourhood.

Maybe you should move to the affluent area of Patong. We don't get the Jehovas around here.

I dont get anyone, cause of the bloody big hill you need to navigate!

[NamKangMan]

@ hansgruber

Hans, you must live in a bad neighbourhood.

Maybe you should move to the affluent area of Patong. We don't get the Jehovas around here.

I dont get anyone, cause of the bloody big hill you need to navigate!

If you are living on a hill, you are a target for the Hillsong Church.

https://hillsong.com/en/

[jpeg]

Next time they come tell them you believe in Ancient Aliens and there is no doubt the Gods driving the UFO-s... It works always...

Doubtful. Long ago in the UK I once told them I was Buddhist. They look shocked and said 'So you worship idols then?'

[davetrout]

I don't have a mailbox, problem solved.

but you do have a door

[eezergood]

@ hansgruber

Hans, you must live in a bad neighbourhood.

Maybe you should move to the affluent area of Patong. We don't get the Jehovas around here.

I dont get anyone, cause of the bloody big hill you need to navigate!

If you are living on a hill, you are a target for the Hillsong Church.

https://hillsong.com/en/

I have a brand new hose ready & willing to shoot em.....

[Old Croc]

I would like to know why these JWs are racist.

Both times they visited, they didn't want to talk to my lady who answered the door (she speaks English), instead asked to see "The Farang" and thenasked personal questions about my spirituality.

What's next, vegetarian divers wanting to know if I eat fish?

As an atheist, perhaps I should start touring the suburbs, knocking on doors, and asking if anybody wants to join me for a chat about sin and debauchery and living as a godless heathen..

[keestha]

I would like to know why these JWs are racist.

Both times they visited, they didn't want to talk to my lady who answered the door (she speaks English), instead asked to see "The Farang"

Might not be racism, just a practical consideration. They assume that you as a farang just observe a wrong variety of Christianity, and are thus easier to be convinced of the truth than your lady, who is most likely Buddhist, and might tend to think Jesus died a horrible dead because he had been very bad in a previous life.

[IrishIvan]

I would like to know why these JWs are racist.

Both times they visited, they didn't want to talk to my lady who answered the door (she speaks English), instead asked to see "The Farang" and thenasked personal questions about my spirituality.

What's next, vegetarian divers wanting to know if I eat fish?

As an atheist, perhaps I should start touring the suburbs, knocking on doors, and asking if anybody wants to join me for a chat about sin and debauchery and living as a godless heathen..

You should have invited them in for some Pad Krapao Plamuek and Kai Dao with a few shots of Thai whiskey.

[IrishIvan]

@ hansgruber

So ignore them and close the door. Problem solved.

My point being, it might happen once every 5 years, not like the other pests I mentioned. If it happened on a weekly basis, I would agree with you.

You're comparing apples to oranges.

Touts and the social miscreants you speak of don't annoy me because for starters I don't live in Patong, secondly, they do not knock on doors.

I'd actually prefer suit man knocking at my door, at least he has something tangible for sale unlike the Jehovah selling false hope.

I wish some bar girls would come knocking at my door. Now that would offer me faith baby!! And I would be willing to listen to a bit of Buddhism and ridiculous chanting too

[Hardened Spanker]

It's really not hard to see why a lot of people on here are no longer welcome in their home countries,is it?

[hansgruber]

It's really not hard to see why a lot of people on here are no longer welcome in their home countries,is it?

How did you come up with that conclusion? Another keyboard psychiatrist.

Or are you talking about the Jehovah being unwelcome in their home countries because that's more believable.

[LivinginKata]

off topic post removed

[SanukDii]

Some questions to ask them.

Although using a fictional book such as the bible to refute arguments by another religious fictional based belief is futile.....but a lot of fun!

Cognitive dissonance can not often be turned into cognitive reason.

If the organization did not actually prophesy the end in 1925 and 1975, then how come so many Witnesses left the faith immediately afterwards? ("They lost roughly three-quarters of the movement between 1925 and 1928, then suffered huge losses after 1975, when the end didn't come as they had implied over and over again," said Jim Penton, an ex-Witness who writes entries on Jehovah's Witnesses for the Encyclopedia Americana.)

If the Watchtower organization rejects others calling them "inspired" yet the Watchtower organization does call themselves "God's Spirit-directed Prophet" what is the difference? Is there such a thing as an "uninspired prophet"? See Organization claims inspiration

Has the Society ever taught anything scripturally incorrect? See Prophecy Blunders of the Organization

Might the Society be teaching anything scripturally incorrect now?

Since the Organization has received "new light" regarding the 1914 generation, and completely changed their view on this, does this mean that all the former Jehovah's witnesses who were disfellowshipped years ago for the same view the organization is now teaching will automatically be accepted into fellowship again? Were these Ex-Jw's in fact disfellowshipped for truth and knew things that the governing body did not? See Jw's were disfellowshipped for rejecting generation doctrine

Can Jehovah's Witnesses hold and discuss openly with other Jehovah's Witnesses opinions that differ from orthodox Watch Tower doctrine?

Can individuals read & understand the Bible alone, or do they need an organization and it's publications to do so? Click here find the answer!

How do you prove from the Bible that 1935 was the year for the selection to heaven stopped due to being filled? What is the difference between a Catholic appealing to "what the organization tells him" about December 25 being the date of Jesus' birthday and a Jw' appealing to "what the organization tells him" about the date 1935? Is it not hypocritical when you chide the "poor deluded Catholic" that his faith cannot find a Bible passage to support it, when the same goes for you and 1935?

How do you know that there were any vacancies, if any, in the 144,000 class if Jesus offered this to first century Christians? How can the organization know the exact number of vacancies today without any records from the first century?

Why are you called, "Jehovah's Witnesses" and not "Christians"? Since Jehovah's Witnesses appeal to Isa 43:12; 44:8 for scriptural support that they should be called, "Jehovah's Witnesses" then what was the "new name" prophesied in Isa 62:2? Can't be "Jehovah's Witnesses", for God already used it 20 chapters earlier. Could the new name be "Christian" after our savior "Christ"?

Why would the name God gave to His people not be "Christians" since Acts 11:26 says, "The disciples were first called Christians in Antioch"? Why is the name "Jehovah's Witness" found nowhere in the New Testament, if that is God's divine name for His people under the new covenant? Why would God wait almost 2000 years to suddenly start using the name "Jehovah's Witness". Does this mean that first century Christians were not known as Jehovah's Witnesses"?

If the name Jehovah is so important, then why is it never used in the entire Greek New Testament? If men edited out the name of God, "YHWH" when they copied the New Testament, as only the Watchtower organization claims, then how can we have any confidence in any of the New Testament? Should we discard the New Testament or the Watchtower organization as unreliable?

If the name "Jehovah" is so important, then why does Acts 4:12 say, "There is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name [v10 Jesus Christ] under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved"? Would this not have been the logical place for God to have used the name "YHWH"?

What is the correct spelling of God's proper name "Yahweh" or "Jehovah"? If Jehovah's Witnesses maintain that "Yahweh" is more proper, why do they misspell it "Jehovah"? If the name of God is so important, then should you not only pronounce it correctly, but spell it correctly too? Is not spelling more important than pronunciation?

Since the Jehovah's Witness organization currently rejects most of the teachings of its founder Charles Taze Russell (who was president of the organization from 1879-1916), and since they also reject "Judge" Joseph Franklin Rutherford, who succeeded Russell as president from 1916 - 1942, how can we be sure that in 25 more years, Jehovah's Witnesses won't also reject the current president, Milton G. Henschel (1992 - present), as they did Russell and Rutherford?

What kind of confidence can anyone have in an organization that rejected its founder and first two presidents for the first 63 years of its existence? This represents about 53% of the time they have existed!

Since the Watchtower organization claims "apostolic succession" who was it that "passed the torch of God's Spirit" to C. T. Russel when he founded the organization? What was the name of this individual?

In the NWT, every time the Greek word "proskuneo" is used in reference to God, it is translated as "worship" (Rev 5:14, 7:11, 11:16, 19:4, Jn 4:20, etc.). Every time "proskuneo" is used in reference to Jesus, it is translated as "obeisance" (Mt 14:33, 28:9, 28:17, Lk 24:52, Heb 1:6, etc.), even though it is the same word in the Greek (see Gr-Engl Interlinear). Especially compare the Greek word "prosekunhsan" used with reference to God in Rev 5:14, 7:11, 11:16, and 19:4 and used with reference to Christ in Mt 14:33, 28:9, and 28:17. What is the reason for this inconsistency? If the NWT was consistent in translating "proskuneo" as "worship", how would the verses above referring to Christ read?

The NWT translates the Greek word "kyrios" as "Jehovah" more than 25 times in the New Testament (Mt 3:3, Lk 2:9, Jn 1:23, Acts 21:14, Rom 12:19, Col 1:10, 1Thess 5:2, 1Pet 1:25, Rev 4:8, etc.). Why is the word "Jehovah" translated when it does not appear in the Greek text? Why is the NWT not consistent in translating kyrios (kurion) as "Jehovah" in Rom 10:9, 1Cor 12:3, Phil 2:11, 2Thess 2:1, and Rev 22:21 (see Gr-Engl Interlinear)?

To what was Jesus referring to by the term "this temple" in Jn 2:18- 19? See Jn 2:21.

If the Holy Spirit is God's impersonal active force, why does he directly speak and refer to himself as "I" and "me" in Acts 13:2?

The NWT translates the Greek words "ego eimi" as "I am" every time it appears (Jn 6:34, 6:41, 8:24, 13:19, 15:5, etc.), except in Jn 8:58 where it is translated as "I have been". What is the reason for the inconsistency in this translation? If "ego eimi" was translated in Jn 8:58 the same way it is translated in every other verse in which it appears, how would Jn 8:58 read?

In Rev 22:12-13, Jesus Christ, the one who is "coming quickly", says of himself, " I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end". In Rev 1:17-18, Jesus, the one who "became dead, but, look! I am living forever and ever", refers to himself as the first and the last. Rev 21:6, in speaking of God, says, "...I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end ...". God is also referred to as the "first" and the "last" in Isa 44:6 and Isa 48:12. How can this be since by definition of these words there can only be one first and one last?

Jn 1:3 says that Jesus created "all things", but in Isa 44:24, God says that he "by myself" created the heavens and the earth and asks the question "Who was with me?" when the heavens and the earth were created. How can this be since if Jesus was created by God, then he would have been with God when everything else was created?

Col 1:16, in talking about Jesus, says that "... All [other] things have been created through him and FOR HIM". If Jesus was Michael the Archangel at the time of creation, would an angel have created all things for himself? Isa 43:7 says God created "everyone ... for my OWN glory...".

The Watchtower Society teaches that the 144,000 of Rev 7:4 is to be taken literally. If chapter 7 of Revelation is to be taken literally, where then does the Bible say that the 144,000 will come from? (See Rev 7:5- 8).

If the soul is the body, why does Jesus make a distinction between the body and the soul in Mt 10:28?

The NWT translates Jn 1:1 as "... and the Word was WITH God, and the Word was a god". How can the Word (Jesus) be "a god" if God says in Deut 32:39, "See now that I-I am he, and there are NO gods together WITH me ..."?

Jesus Christ is referred to as "Mighty God" in Isa 9:6 ("For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us ... And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God ..."). Jehovah is referred to as "Mighty God" in Isa 10:20-21. How can this be if there is only one God (1Cor 8:4, Isa 43:10, 44:6)?

If Jesus was executed on a torture stake, with both hands together over his head, why does Jn 20:25 say "...Unless I see in his hands the print of the nailS ...", indicating that there was more than one nail used for his hands?

Jesus uses the phrase "Truly I say to you, ..." over 50 times in the Bible. In the NWT, the comma is placed after the word "you" every time except in Lk 23:43, where the comma is placed after the word "today". Why is the comma placed after "today" instead of after "you" in this verse? If the translation of this phrase in Lk 23:43 was consistent with the translation of this phrase in all the other verses in which it appears (see concordance), and the comma was placed after the word "you", how would it read?

The NWT translates the Greek word "esti" as "is" in almost every instance in the New Testament (Mt 26:18, 38, Mk 14:44, Lk 22:38, etc.). See Greek-English Interlinear. Why does the NWT translate this Greek word as "means" in Mt 26:26-28, Mk 14:22-24, and Lk 22:19? Why the inconsistency in the translation of the word "esti"? If the NWT was consistent and translated the Greek word "esti" as "is" in these verses, what would these verses say?

In Jn 20:28, Thomas refers to Jesus in Greek as "Ho kyrios moy kai ho theos moy". This translates literally as "the Lord of me and THE God of me". Why does Jesus, in Jn 20:29, affirm Thomas for having come to this realization? If Jesus really wasn't the Lord and THE God of Thomas, why didn't Jesus correct him for making either a false assumption or a blasphemous statement?

If Christ will not have a visible return to earth, then how will he be seen by "ALL the tribes of the earth" (Mt 24:30) and by "EVERY eye" (Rev 1:7) when he returns?

If the Holy Spirit is God's impersonal active force, how could he: Be referred to as "he" and "him" in Jn 16:7-8 and Jn 16:13-14; Bear witness - Jn 15:26; Feel hurt - Isa 63:10; Be blasphemed against - Mk 3:29; Say things - Ezek 3:24, Acts 8:29, 10:19, 11:12, 21:11, Heb10:15-17, Rev 2:7; Desire - Gal 5:17; Be outraged - Heb 10:29; Search -1Cor 2:10; Comfort - Acts 9:31; Be loved - Rom 15:30 ; Be lied to and be God - Acts 5:3-4?

What is the meaning of Rev 14:9-11, which says, "... If anyone worships the wild beast ... he shall be tormented with fire and sulphur ... And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever ...". Where could "anyone" be "tormented ... forever and ever"?

Jn 1:3 says in reference to Christ, "All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence". How could Christ have been a created being if ALL things came into existence through him? If Jesus was a created being, then according to Jn 1:3, Jesus would have had to create himself.

If the spirit of a man has no existence apart from the body, why does Stephen just before his death in Acts 7:59, pray to Jesus to "receive my spirit"? How could Jesus receive Stephen's spirit if a man's spirit ceases to exist when the body dies?

If the great crowd is to have everlasting life on paradise EARTH, why does 1Thess 4:17 say, "...we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR; and thus we shall always be with the Lord"?

If there are 144,000 spirit anointed people who have a heavenly hope, and a great crowd of people who have another hope of everlasting life on paradise earth, why does Paul say that there is only ONE hope (Eph 4:4), instead of two?

If there is no conscious awareness after death, how could the "spirits in prison" be preached to by Christ after his death (1Pet 3:18-20) and how could the good news be "declared also to the dead" (1Pet 4:6)?

In Phil 2:9, the NWT inserts the word "other", even though it doesn't appear in the original Greek (see Gr-Engl Interlinear). What is the reason for inserting this word? Is the word "Jehovah" a name? See Ex 6:3, Ps 83:18, and Isa 42:8. How would the verse read if the word "other" had not been inserted? What does scripture say about adding words to the Bible? See Prov 30:5-6.

Heb 9:28, speaking of Christ, says "... and the second time he appears..." How can Christ APPEAR a second time if he will not have a visible return to earth?

Amos 4:11 says, "'I caused an overthrow among you people, like God's overthrow of Sodom and Gomorrah. And you came to be like a log snatched out of [the] burning; but you did not come back to me,' is the utterance of Jehovah." How can Jehovah speaking in this verse refer to another person as God ("... like GOD'S overthrow of Sodom ...")?

In Rev 19:1, where does it say that the "great crowd" will be?

If Christians are persecuted for the sake of Jehovah's name, why did Christ tell the first Christians that they would be persecuted for the sake of his (Jesus') name instead of Jehovah's (Mt 24:9, Mk 13:13, Lk 21:12, 17, Jn 15:21, and Acts 9:16)?

In Col 1:15-17, the NWT inserts the word "other" 4 times even though it is not in the original Greek (see Gr-Engl interlinear). Why is the word "other" inserted? How would these verses read if the word "other" had not been inserted?

In 2Pet 1:1, the NWT inserts the word "the". Why is it inserted? How would the verse read if the word "the" was not inserted? What does scripture say about adding words to the Bible? (See Prov 30:5-6).

In the sermon on the mount, when Jesus was addressing the "great crowd" (Lk 6:17), why did he tell them in Lk 6:22-23, "...your reward is great in heaven ..."?

In Mt 1:23, who is Matthew referring to here that has been given the name which means "With Us Is God"?

In Rev 14:13, how can the dead be "happy" and find "rest" if there is no conscious awareness after death?

If Jesus was executed on a torture stake, with both hands together over his head, instead of on a cross with both hands outstretched, why does Mt 27:37 say that the sign "This is Jesus the King of the Jews" was "posted above his HEAD" instead of being posted above his hands? How could it have been posted above his head if his arms were stretched out over his head?

In Lk 4:12, the NWT translates "kyrios" (Gr-lord) as "Jehovah", which makes the verse read "... 'You shall not put Jehovah your God to the test.'" See Gr-Engl Interlinear. Why is kyrios translated as "Jehovah" in this verse? Was the devil, in Lk 4:9-11, putting Jehovah to the test or JESUS to the test?

The Bible says that ONLY God is our savior (Hos 13:4, Isa 43:11,45:21, etc.). How can it be then, that the Bible repeatedly says that Jesus Christ is our savior (Lk 2:11, Phil 3:20, Tit 2:13, 3:6, 2Pet 1:1, 2:20, 3:18, etc.)?

Referring to Isa 14:9-17, if there is no conscious awareness after death, how could Sheol "... become agitated at you in order to meet you on coming in..." (v.9), how could the souls in Sheol "... speak up and say to you..." (v.10-11), how could the souls in Sheol when "...seeing you will gaze even at you; they will give close examination even to you, [saying,] 'Is this the man'..." (v. 16-17), and how would you be aware that this was happening?

Heb 3:1 refers to "holy brothers, partakers of the heavenly calling". In Mk 3:35, Jesus says, "Whoever does the will of God, this one is my brother ...". Therefore, according to the Bible, whoever does the will of God is a brother of Jesus and a partaker of the heavenly calling. How can this be if the Watchtower Society teaches that only 144,000 people go to heaven?

Heb 11:16, in speaking about some of the faithful people of the Old Testament (Abel, Noah, Abraham, etc.) says, "But now they are reaching out for a better [place], that is, one belonging to heaven..." and, "... their God for he has made a city ready for them." The footnote on the word "city" refers to HEAVENLY Jerusalem of Heb 12:22 and Rev 21:2. How can this be since according to the teachings of the Watchtower Society, the only people who will go to heaven are the 144,000 spirit anointed who have been chosen from people who lived after Christ died?

Rev 20:10 says, "And the Devil ... the wild beast and the false prophet [already were]; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever." Where will the devil, the wild beast, and the false prophet be "tormented day and night forever and ever"?

In Lk 24:36-39 and in Jn 20:26-27, Jesus showed his disciples the wounds in his body as proof of his resurrection. If Jesus' body had been destroyed by God after he died, how could Jesus show the disciples his body which had the wounds in his hands, feet, and side and claim that he is not just a spirit, "because a spirit does not have flesh and bones just as you behold that I have" (Lk 24:39)?

If Christ was created by God and was the wisdom of God (Prov 8:1-4, 12, 22-31), then before Jesus would have been created, God would have had to have been without wisdom. How is it possible that God could have ever been without wisdom?

Rev 7:11 says that "before the throne" is in heaven where "all the angels were standing". Rev 14:2-3 says "And I heard a sound out of heaven ... And they were singing as if a new song before the throne ...". Rev 7:9 says, "... look, a great crowd ... standing before the throne...". Rev 7:14-15 says, "...There are the ones that come out of the great tribulation ... That is why they are before the throne of God ...". Therefore, if "before the throne " means in heaven (Rev 7:11, 14:2-3), and the "great crowd" is "before the throne" (Rev 7:9, 7:14-15), where does that mean that the great crowd will be?

If Jesus Christ is Michael the Archangel, how can Mt 25:31 say, "When the Son of man arrives in his glory, and ALL the angels with him, ...". Since "all the angels" would certainly include Michael the Archangel, is it possible that Jesus could return with himself?

In Lk 20:37-38, how could Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob be "all living to him (God)", since they all died hundreds of years before Jesus said this?

If the soul dies when the body dies, how could the "souls" of Rev 6:9- 11, who were of those who had been "slaughtered" (i.e., killed), cry out "with a loud voice, saying: 'Until when Sovereign Lord ..."?

In Mt 28:19, Jesus tells his disciples to baptize "people of all the nations ...in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit". Why would the disciples be instructed to baptize in the name of anybody or anything who was not God? Do Jehovah's Witnesses follow the command of Jesus and baptize "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit"?

If the human soul IS the person, how could the soul go out of a person (Gen 35:18) or come back into a person (1Kings 17:21)?

The Watchtower Society teaches that the earth will never be destroyed or depopulated. How can it be, then, that God says in Isa 51:6, "... the earth itself will wear out, and its inhabitants will die like a mere gnat ...", and that Jesus says in Mt 24:35, "Heaven and earth will pass away...", and that John says in Rev 21:1 that he saw "... a new heaven and a NEW earth, for the former heaven and the FORMER earth had passed away, and the sea is no more."?

Referring to Lk 12:4-5, what would be left of a person after they were killed that could be thrown into Gehenna?

Who or what does the spirit of Christ (Phil 1:19, Gal 4:6, Rom 8:9) refer to? In Gal 4:6, how is it possible that the spirit of Christ could come into our hearts? How is it possible that the spirit of CHRIST could reside in someone? If what the Watchtower Society teaches is true, how could Paul make this statement if Christ was a spirit person residing in heaven?

In Jn 8:56, Jesus says, "Abraham your father rejoiced greatly in the prospect of seeing my day, and he saw it and rejoiced". Since Abraham died hundreds of years before Jesus said this, how could Jesus say that Abraham "saw it and rejoiced", if there is no conscious awareness after death?

In Jn 6:51, Jesus says that a person must eat "of this bread" in order to "live forever", and that "the bread that I give IS my flesh". In Jn 6:63, Jesus says "... Unless you eat the flesh of the son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in yourselves." In Jn 6:54-55, Jesus says, "He that feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has everlasting life..." and "... for my flesh is true food and my blood is true drink." Do you partake of the flesh of Christ , as Jesus commanded, in order to have life in yourself and in order to live forever?

Every true Christian would agree that we should follow the commands of God. In Mk 9:7, God the Father commands us to listen to Jesus. Do you follow this command and listen to Jesus? After all, Jesus died for your personal sins (1Jn 2:2, 1Pet 2:24). Jesus tells us to go directly to him (Mt 11:28-30), and the Father commanded us to listen to Jesus. Why? Because JESUS gives us everlasting life (Jn 10:28), and so that JESUS will enter our house and be with us and give us the right to sit on his throne (Rev 3:20- 21). Do you pray to Jesus as Paul and the early Christians did (1Cor 1:2)? Do you partake of the flesh of Christ as Jesus commanded (Jn 6:51)? If not, then are you following the command of the Father who said "Listen to him"?

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[Old Croc]

Could someone summarise that for me.

[Donnie Brasco]

Door to door religiosity can at times be entertaining provided that one is in the mood.

I rather enjoy reading about Medieval European Christendom as a historical reference and keep a King James Bible, a Missal, a Koran, some Buddhist literature (Bahadasah Bhikku is my current favourite. This is possibly because the good friar has seen fit to have his analyses proofread and syntactically parsed by native English speaking acolytes. There's also a Book of Mormon (from a lapsed Mormon acquaintance) and some odds and ends I've picked up at yard sales back in the Old Country.

To these I have added books by Karen Armstrong and some other stuff on heresy as a social phenomenon. As it appears in a wide range of human thinking from Geopolitics to region, and the various disciplines (including physics and biology)

When *they* arrive (and appear to be not too, too tightly wrapped) I am polite.

I invite them in for refreshments but suggest that since I have pressing business that I will end our discussion in about an hour. Sooner if they appear to be "spouters". I invite them to present their case for whatever it is they feel will change my life. I make note of any and all logical fallacies but will not during this period answer ANY rhetorical questions about myself.

I suggest that in addition to their literature which they are invited to leave, they comment on the books I have in the religion section of my library. At this point I will answer non-rhetorical questions.

Before we know it an hour has passed.

They are invited to sum up.

And that's that.

They leave after I tell them that I have enjoyed their presentation but I will need about a year to incorporate their information into my personal synthesis. I thank them and I stress that I have other business to attend to.

If they push I push back.

If they return the next week with a "learned brother" I apologize for having very little time.

They give up.

It's entertaining.

This works.

[SanukDii]

Yes.

Dear JW you are basing your religion on a book cobbled together and edited by multiple anonymous authors over several hundred years...a book whose authors believed the world was flat and that the sun revolved around the earth.

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[merijn]

Oh please.

Now we get online Jehova's entering without knocking.

[grumpyoldman]

Oh please.

Now we get online Jehova's entering without knocking.

Thats legal grounds to shoot them merijn...........whoops(!) just blasted my laptop.

[SanukDii]

Oh please.

Now we get online Jehova's entering without knocking.

At least the electronic door is easier to close than the physical......click!

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