Why do Monks do that?...

[Maggusoil]

No smoking for instance

And then after your spiel, you come back with 'no smoking for instance'

Are you serious?

No. Not serious.

Not nearly serious enough for you and don't get your knickers in a knot OK.

Its a pretty frivolous question in the first place and If I want to find out what they think or do

I would go straight and talk to them the monks, and not stuff around here being pedantic,

and not looking for the joke when its offered.

No matter how bad it is.

[toybits]

Technically, monks are not allowed to receive money.

I heard that the original vestments of monks were recycled cloth used to wrap corpses. The cloth was dyed using natural dyes and attained a dark brown color - not the common bright orange colored cloth we see today.

Monks do not go out with their begging bowls in the evening. I saw one on Sukhumvit Soi 14 outside a restaurant. That person was a pretend Monk and not a REAL monk.

The last meal of the day is taken before noon.

[krisb]

Google it. You can at least learn much about Buddhism. Wikipedia covers it quite well, however Thai Buddhist monasteries and the lives and duties of monks often reach far beyond the teachings of the master.

As you will find out, with enough time spent here.

Yout not up to speed, read the op a little better.

Alright, point taken. Then take the shortest distance between two points and ask one of them and not one of us.

An Internet Forum, is an online discussion site where people can hold conversations and gain information from each other.

If your not willing to be a part of this in a positive way, perhaps this isn't the place for you.

[krisb]

No smoking for instance

And then after your spiel, you come back with 'no smoking for instance'

Are you serious?

No. Not serious.

Not nearly serious enough for you and don't get your knickers in a knot OK.

Its a pretty frivolous question in the first place and If I want to find out what they think or do

I would go straight and talk to them the monks, and not stuff around here being pedantic,

and not looking for the joke when its offered.

No matter how bad it is.

Well at least you admit your joke is bad.

Let me explain my situation to provide you with some clarity. I don't live in Thailand f/t. I live in Australia with my lovely wife and lovely daughter. It was her birthday last week btw, she's 1. We get back and visit as often as we can, and regularly she visits the local temples, like a good Buddhist lady she is. I ask her why do the Monks do certain things but even she doesn't know all there is to know about the Buddhist ways. I would ask the Monks things but I am not fluent in Thai, and the Monks there I am yet too meet any that can speak English, except 1 who learnt broken English from being in Bangkok prison for a time. Nice guy, think he learnt his lesson and saw the light. So there's a basic run down for yourself and any others who are wondering why I have the sheer audacity to ask such a rude, arrogant, horrible nasty question. I thought it was quite harmless really, some have been quite helpful and I appreciate them willing to share their knowledge with me and us.

[Kudel]

In some villages they are also bankers,they loan money via a third party at very lousy rates to the villagers .The only god they know is baht.

[Maggusoil]

I see that only a few people on here have any idea about Buddhism.. I'm not going to waste my time explaining everything. Like both Jesus and the Buddha said, some people will hear and understand, some won't. Some people will actually be interested enough to try and learn, some people won't give a shit. Don't believe everything you read or hear. There are a lot of really good monks out there who actually follow the 227 rules we live by. There are some who don't. Try it, then give your opinion.. If you have never driven or ridden in a Mercedes, how can you give a factual opinion of it? Have a very great 2014, all of you..

Oh. My. God.

We've been given the drum mate, by the all seeing eye

God can't help you in this forum

[krisb]

No god can't help, but there's a few who can.

[Kudel]

Op if youre interested in Thai buddhism theres a documentary called buddhas lost children its about a former muay thai champion turned monk and he takes care of orphans in Chiang Mai he is looked down upon by the buddhist establishment in Bangkok because hes a kind of a rebel theres also a book about him and its one of the best programs i have seen so far about Thailand.

[Maggusoil]

No smoking for instance

And then after your spiel, you come back with 'no smoking for instance'

Are you serious?

No. Not serious.

Not nearly serious enough for you and don't get your knickers in a knot OK.

Its a pretty frivolous question in the first place and If I want to find out what they think or do

I would go straight and talk to them the monks, and not stuff around here being pedantic,

and not looking for the joke when its offered.

No matter how bad it is.

Well at least you admit your joke is bad.

Let me explain my situation to provide you with some clarity. I don't live in Thailand f/t. I live in Australia with my lovely wife and lovely daughter. It was her birthday last week btw, she's 1. We get back and visit as often as we can, and regularly she visits the local temples, like a good Buddhist lady she is. I ask her why do the Monks do certain things but even she doesn't know all there is to know about the Buddhist ways. I would ask the Monks things but I am not fluent in Thai, and the Monks there I am yet too meet any that can speak English, except 1 who learnt broken English from being in Bangkok prison for a time. Nice guy, think he learnt his lesson and saw the light. So there's a basic run down for yourself and any others who are wondering why I have the sheer audacity to ask such a rude, arrogant, horrible nasty question. I thought it was quite harmless really, some have been quite helpful and I appreciate them willing to share their knowledge with me and us.

Alright.

My experience having been trying to practice a version of Buddhism on and off for 47 years, is that on coming to actually live in Thailand, I realised that what is known as Buddhism here is not the same as was my understanding.

I have a psychologist friend in Sydney, who studied as a monk in Thailand for 13 years and also runs meditation workshops.

John Barter

http://mindfulness-sydney.com/free-events

I put it to him once, that it seemed that Buddhism, which to me was a blueprint for thinking and having a good life, had been turned into a religion which was in some ways at odds with the teachings.

He disagreed, which surprised me.

This is an onion, I now know, that may take a long time to peel.

If you live in Sydney, he would be a good man to talk to.

There are many forms of Buddhism and many types of monks. As we know.

From the sublime to the ridiculous.

[quiuvo]

Google it. You can at least learn much about Buddhism. Wikipedia covers it quite well, however Thai Buddhist monasteries and the lives and duties of monks often reach far beyond the teachings of the master.

As you will find out, with enough time spent here.

Yout not up to speed, read the op a little better.

Alright, point taken. Then take the shortest distance between two points and ask one of them and not one of us.

An Internet Forum, is an online discussion site where people can hold conversations and gain information from each other.

If your not willing to be a part of this in a positive way, perhaps this isn't the place for you.

I want to be part of this but can I do it in a negative way? Or do I have to be positive about all your xx posts on this topic for instance?

[Robby nz]

Another link that if anyone is interested they may like to look at :

http://www.dhammawheel.com/index.php?sid=520ba59df9e8e25c67be0124a4b3bc6b

[krisb]

Google it. You can at least learn much about Buddhism. Wikipedia covers it quite well, however Thai Buddhist monasteries and the lives and duties of monks often reach far beyond the teachings of the master.

As you will find out, with enough time spent here.

Yout not up to speed, read the op a little better.

Alright, point taken. Then take the shortest distance between two points and ask one of them and not one of us.

An Internet Forum, is an online discussion site where people can hold conversations and gain information from each other.

If your not willing to be a part of this in a positive way, perhaps this isn't the place for you.

I want to be part of this but can I do it in a negative way? Or do I have to be positive about all your xx posts on this topic for instance?

Try this, start your own topic, come out from under there and see how it goes.

You may find it's not all that bad.

Chin up champ

[thefamilyjules]

I see that only a few people on here have any idea about Buddhism.. I'm not going to waste my time explaining everything. Like both Jesus and the Buddha said, some people will hear and understand, some won't. Some people will actually be interested enough to try and learn, some people won't give a shit. Don't believe everything you read or hear. There are a lot of really good monks out there who actually follow the 227 rules we live by. There are some who don't. Try it, then give your opinion.. If you have never driven or ridden in a Mercedes, how can you give a factual opinion of it? Have a very great 2014, all of you.. width=20 alt=wai.gif pagespeed_url_hash=3808308681>

As if you know everything there is to know about anything.

Neither Jesus of Nazareth nor Siddhartha Gautama said, "some people won't give a shit."

"There are a lot of really good monks out there who actually follow the 227 rules we live by." To whom does 'we' refer?

Since when is an opinion factual? An opinion is necessarily the opposite of a fact.

Having a great 2014 so far myself. alt=thumbsup.gif pagespeed_url_hash=1443177670>

Whilst you are likely correct, how can you be so sure and make such a categoric statement. . We all say things at times we wish we hadn't or are pleased nobody heard.

It is stated above that Buddhism is NOT a religion, but the teachings of Buddha are taught. Did Buddha (and for that matter Jesus) go around saying do this and that and don't do something else? Probably not. Most of the "teachings" have been introduced over time. Did, for example, Jesus say no contraception or don't eat meat on Fridays? I've no idea about Buddha's teachings but I am willing to bet he did not say half of what is attributed to him!

The statement was intentionally categorical in tone in order to mock the third and fourth sentences of the post.

Apart from that, as I understand the history, Jesus spoke primarily Aramaic, Hebrew, and Greek. Gautama spoke primarily Pali and/or the spoken form of Sanskrit. Whatever their languages, English was almost certainly not one of them. Even if it was, the supposed lives of both persons predate the English word "s--t" and the verbal phrase "to give a s--t" came into use only within the last century.

[marstons]

play around on ipads and iphones, fill low cost airlines and private jets, sit around in the most comfortable seats going in public places despite following a middle way. have a bit of a play around with ladies sometime, read porn and take drugs. All prity mundane stuff really but some in news papers yesterday as there quite often is.

[Kangawallafox]

I have been a monk twice: once for seven days in 1998 in Chiang Mai, and once for one day in honor of my mother-in-law for her funeral. I can respond to some of your questions. My seven-day stint was during a vacation in Thailand while I was still employed in the US. I had wanted to do it for a long time, but that's all the time I had. My mother-in-law was my sponsor, that is, held my robes and presented them to me during the ordination ceremony. Donning the robes for her funeral was my way of returning the favor.

Q: "They live in their respective temples/wats, usually close to their family home, I think?"

Not usually true for the long-term monks. I have met many who are far from their original homes, even from Laos, Cam, and Burma. However, I remember one fellow who was ordained with me whose mother brought his favorite foods every day. He left the monkhood one day before me. I think he was a picky eater, spoiled by his mom his whole life, so didn't share in the pooled food we collected during our walks every morning. Most of my ordination group of 27 were Chiang Mai folks, or Northerners anyway.

Q: "They only eat 2 times a day, not sure why?"

I think this began very early, an instruction from the Lord Buddha himself. Buddhists believe monks contribute to the community, but the Lord Buddha didn't want monks to be seen as pests constantly bothering the people for food. Monks collect food once in the morning. Presumably, it's still edible before noon, but gets dodgy in the heat of the afternoon, whether in tropical Southeast Asia or the Plains of the Ganges. Personally, I love to eat, but found this austerity to be something I could prove to myself. In the evenings when my stomach was growling, I toughed it out by meditating and drinking chocolate milk. Liquids are OK after noon.

Q: "They can't touch females

No alcohol"

Yeah, discipline, austerity, and setting themselves apart from worldly desires. It's a part of conquering the ego.

Q: "They worship Buddha"

Well, OK, if that's the word you prefer. I don't use the word "worship" because the Buddha is not a god. I venerate him as a teacher. He had tremendous discipline and saw through the mind games that people play. But you're right that it looks like worship, and I think that for many people it is. My lovely wife prays to him for protection and favors, ignoring Buddhism's teaching that the Buddha himself has transcended worldly concerns.

Q: "They don't practice Kung-<deleted> in Thailand but the Chinese monks do?"

I don't have a fix on how much of this is Hollywood, and I'm not very familiar with Chinese Buddhism. But bear in mind that much of what we see on our entertainment screens is not authentic. There are lots of Chinese philosophies (Taoism, Confucianism, etc.) that can be made (by screenwriters and directors) to look like Buddhism because the stereotype makes it easier to tell the story to Westerners. That said, some martial arts are taught in Thai temples. Here I'm thinking of stick-fighting.

Q: "Something about covering and uncovering a shoulder around Buddha statues?"

There are rules about this, for monks, not for lay people, not sure if you meant that. Monks can reveal a shoulder in the temple grounds for comfort, but cover up when they go out for modesty, kind of like when you think about how to dress for any given activity or event you attend in public. I made this mistake myself during my week in the monkhood. I went out to buy water lilies for a pool in the temple grounds, rode all over town in a tuk-tuk with my shoulder bared and only realized it when I got back. Honest mistake.

Hope this helps.

Shaolin temples do practice Kung <deleted>,it's optional however.

And they do practice chan Buddhism,not a media fabrication,a fact.

On another note how were you a monk for one day,I thought seven days was the minimum.

[wym]

The OP posts a few obvious observations, comments that it seems a bit sad to him, claims to want to know "why" they do these things, but doesn't want to learn about Buddhism and clearly doesn't have much respect for the spiritual aspects of life.

Maybe this answer would fit the bill at this level of discussion

"because they want to be a monk, at least for a time, and monks have rules to follow"

For all those noting that some monks do break these "rules", note that Buddhism doesn't go too far down the track of labeling such transgressions "sin", nor is hypocrisy considered a major one either. Almost all humans are weak and inconsistent, why should those actually trying to follow a systematic path to self-improvement be any different?

These are more like guidelines, recommendations to follow if you want to get certain results.

If one chooses to break the rules then there will be natural consequences from those actions, no need for fellow humans to "punish" the transgressor, he'll get his just deserts in the natural course of things.

All much more relaxed than the traditional Christian POV. . .

[Somsrisonphimai]

The alcohol and women bit I would fail within the first week.

It is called self restraint. That is why they are monks and you're not.

[Somsrisonphimai]

I allways thought the monks are only allowed to eat before noon. This asumption goes well with my observations on THAI flights. Even when food (or what ever that is) is served, the monk(s) get only a tray with water, orange juice, tea and coffee. (I wonder why all four of them....)

This afternoon I spotted the local monk across the street....eating!

Well, I also thought mobile phones were not owned by monks. When I mentioned this while talking to a Thai friend, being a monk before, he started laughing.

It is 2014, and time has changed. They are fine as long as they follow basic Buddhist code of ethics.

[canman]

I would think your deliciously crazy, but I would out of respect, respect your choice to think you are whatever you want to be, from one human to another.

I get your drift,surely you get mine, let's get back to topic..

Same circular reasoning. You describe the action, not the reason. Rather than explain the reason you just insert an additional 'respect'.... "out of respect".

I'm a commited Pastafarian and I get no respect!

[Hillman321]

I wouldn't call it a fine line at all. More like worlds of difference.

However it is not uncommon among lay people, especially those with less education and little awareness of actual Buddhist teachings, to take going to the Wat and bowing to Buddha images as a superstitious ritual intended to bring good luck or something like that. Actually Buddhist teaching makes clear that there is no supernatural power that can help you and that it is only by your own efforts and how you live your life that better outcomes become possible.

But a monk would certainly know all this. As do more educated Thais and anyone who has actually studied Buddhist teachings.

If there is no supernatural power to help the people and it only by ones personal efforts and good lifestyle that produces good outcomes, why does virtually the whole Thai population insist on merit making at the wat, and why are there 1 million monks trying to suggest differently to the people.

"Making merit" is not a superstitious ritual. It is based on the laws of karma, i.e. do good and get (sooner or later) good results and vice versa.

Good lifestyle incorporates (indeed, is built on) doing good deeds.

If you have ever seen them pouring water during a chanting you might wonder why. It is part of the ritual to SHARE any merit they have made with others.

[Hillman321]

Thai Monks are Therevada. Chinese monks are Mahayana. The TWO Major divisions. Vijarana is Tibetan (Dalai Lama). Therevada is the last surviving "school" from the time of Buddha. Mahayana started in Vietnam and moved to China, Tibet, Korea and Japan. Each time it changed to adapt to the local communities

Senior monks (20+) have 227 precepts to follow. Nuns have 332. Lay persons had 5. On special days (Wan Phra or monks days) lay people choose to follow 8. Samonen (or nen) are monks under senior age and only follow 10. One of the 8 is NOT to eat past local noon until the sun rises again.

Buddhists do NOT worship Buddha. They worship the IDEALS not the IDOLS. The trinity (Triple Gem) of Buddhism is the Buddha, the Dhamma (teachings) and the Sangha ( the community - monks and lay people).

As with everything, monks are people. Some take things more seriously than others. Some senior monks have violated the vows of celibacy, poverty and anything else you can think of.

And it seems that many Abbots condone or indeed actively encourage a substantial array of superstitious sideshows in the temple grounds, which presumably have nothing to do with the teachings of Buddha, but make a lot of money from the gullible for somebody.

Before Buddha was enlightened, he was a Hindu. Many of the practices remain from that. Buddha never discussed where we "came" from yet some temples have a statue of Prama (Hindu God of Creation) because some people have a "NEED" to "know" where we came from. If the monks are meeting the spiritual needs of the people it gives them a chance to discuss and teach what Buddha taught. Many "religions" incorporate local customs (the Catholic "local" saints for instance) in order to attract people.

[h90]

Well some live very different....

Read news and open your eyes...monks that buy the best high speed graphic card for the computer at panthip placa.

monks that could not wake up upcountry in the north when there were soccer games.

meat delivery to the kitchen of temple.

And monks with the girls and boys is an endless story.

etc etc etc

On the other hand, close to us lived a small criminal and permanent drunk.....From one day to the other he disappeared. A year later he came and visit us again as monk.

Didn't drink any alcohol anymore, lived in the temple and tried to be a good person. Actually he went to the temple because the police was looking for him, but he could really change his life to the better.

Point of the story...many go there to change themself to the better. Some successful some not successful. Some temple are really helping. Some temple are rotten down.

Not all is black and white. But trying to do good is the first step in the right direction.

[Maggusoil]

No smoking for instance

http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/dharmadata/fdd33.htm

Thank you it was a very obtuse joke prompted by my avatar. It was badly put and rushed, but thank you anyway.

I am not a moralist and believe in the axiom ".. . .whatever gets you through the night. . . "

Smoking no longer gets me through anything thank God. I have other addictions, none of which Buddha would

approve, but I suspect he wasn't a moralist either.

[quiuvo]

Google it. You can at least learn much about Buddhism. Wikipedia covers it quite well, however Thai Buddhist monasteries and the lives and duties of monks often reach far beyond the teachings of the master.

As you will find out, with enough time spent here.

Yout not up to speed, read the op a little better.

Alright, point taken. Then take the shortest distance between two points and ask one of them and not one of us.

An Internet Forum, is an online discussion site where people can hold conversations and gain information from each other.

If your not willing to be a part of this in a positive way, perhaps this isn't the place for you.

I want to be part of this but can I do it in a negative way? Or do I have to be positive about all your xx posts on this topic for instance?

Try this, start your own topic, come out from under there and see how it goes.

You may find it's not all that bad.

Chin up champ

Done that. But I didn't milk them like you are doing with this topic. Thanks for the enlightenment.

[dao16]

They live in their respective temples/wat's, usually close to their family home, I think?

Yeah, it seems like most of them are local, but some of them go to other places for different reasons, whether it be study, teaching or spiritual reasons. We even know a guy who as close you can get to being a monk without living in the temple. He lives out in the bush for largish chunks of time but still has to go back every so often to maintain his affiliation with that temple, etc. You would have to ask a senior monk how this is determined (and apparently, it isn't just anyone who is allowed on the "path" he is on.)

They only eat 2 times a day, not sure why?

Think it has to do with removing sensory. Eating is necessary, but also a source of unnecessary pleasure so it is limited to make sure they aren't indulging the senses, so to speak. Some temples even do once a day (again....my wife will know when they all eat, but you would have to ask a senior monk exactly what the reason for some eating twice and some only eating once.) Also, they usually mix all their food together in the same bowl and do not use condiments which removes the pleasure from the eating experience. Again, not sure everyone at the temple would do this, but I know several people who did that when they were monks.

They can't touch females

No alcohol

They worship Buddha

They don't practice Kung-<deleted> in Thailand but the Chinese monks do?

Some in China do, but not all. Might be some who practice martial arts here, but haven't heard about them. Have heard of them in Korea and Japan, though.

Something about covering and uncovering a shoulder around Buddha statues?

Modesty around religious sites. Shoulders covered for women. I guess for men, too, but it is less of an issue since we usually have t-shirts on. But, everyone should dress modestly when visiting holy sites.

So what do you know about them? Not hard to know much more than me I think but I would like to learn why they do the things they do for a better understanding, and respectively without going into the teachings of Buddha.

Remember, I am not a Buddhist and I am not interested in learning in why each temple or "sect" or whatever practices in different ways--so for more info on those intricacies, you would have to find a monk, foreign or Thai, who can explain them. I just know what I have read (purely out of curiosity...maybe a dozen books and some internet-based stuff) and Thais and foreigners involved in it who have explained things to me.

I guess a few other interesting things I have found:

--Generally, you are supposed to keep your head at a lower level than theirs when they are sitting and you are approaching them. I always make the effort if the guy is sitting and I am going to talk to him, but they don't seem to bothered about a tall foreigner having trouble with that. Mostly, I just start "sitting down" as I am getting near them. Obviously, not just walking down the road. I have only had this happen a few times when I was going to be in a longer conversation with a monk. Similarly, wai-ing monks three times is a thing, but the important monks that have come to the village were really laid back about it and just thought it was cool I made an effort and then said "yeah, it's ok...don't worry about it." They just want to talk and get to know you.

--I find the senior monks can often be very interesting people and have sometimes traveled abroad and might even speak decent English. Even in my wife's tiny village, I know a few monks who have been to India, Burma, Japan and the US. We had interesting conversations that most normal villagers just wouldn't have any idea about.

Anyway, could go on about it, but those are the things that stand out. A few foreign monks have even written books about Thai Buddhism in English. Don't remember their names, but you can probably find them if you go through used English language bookstores in bigger cities. Have fun with it. I am not religious, but I find it interesting.

[Kangawallafox]

My brother in law wrote a Buddhist book called anti virus.

It's about the effects of modern things such as the internet amongst other things on today's youth and how Buddhism can help.

Will be translated soon I hope.

He is a monk for life,been at it for years.

I have spent time at his temple,I see a whole lot of misconceptions about Buddhism,just as much from thai people who don't even know most of their animistic practice are not Buddhist.

Have been in the religion since I was fourteen,still learning,monks are just people trying to move forward,all at different stages of their journey.

You don't become enlightened the day you throw on a robe.

[Hardened Spanker]

They seem just as corrupt as every other institution in Thailand!