Customs Mistake

[Sheryl]

It is not UPS or fedex that names the duty on an item it is customs.

Yes, of course. But it IS UPS and Fedex (and DHL) job to follow up and facilitate the customs clearance process, including explaining what the item is and following up on any required eprmits/licenses (or, as is more often the case, preventing stuff from being subject to unnecessary license requirements by clarifying what it is and reasoning with the customs officials). In my experience, customs will sometimes deal with the problem of not knowing what category to consider something in for tariff purposes (based on their tariff schedule, which as another post notes, is as clear as mud) by summarily referring it to other departments for licenses, some of which are never granted in less than 6 months and a few of which (most notably the FDA) are effective black holes from whioch one's goods never return.

When it appears that the tariff may be significant and/or that a lot of contact with customs will be required, both UPS and FedEx will ask if you want them to be the ones to do this for you and will charge a considerable fee for that service. Which they then proceed to botch hopelessly, no matter how many explanations and supporting documents you may have given them explaining what the item in question is. All that is required is diligent follow up (by phone and sometimes in person), explanation and a bit of negotiation. I would assume that some palm greasing also comes into the picture, but their fees are certainly high enough to cover a little tipping. (For example, I observed during a LONG day at BKK customs house that many Thais were arranging to get their parcels brought down and assessed more quickly via 20 - 50 baht "tips" to the porters who shuttle between the wharehouse and the assessment counter)

I recently tried to use a local service to handle customs clearance for me on something sent through normal mail. A big mistake, ultimately I had to go to customs myself and by then there were substantial storage fees to be paid.

Based on my experience, I will in future just go to customs myself in the first place, even though it is a very long drive. It is a very unpleasnat experience in terms of logistics (like no parking anywhere remotely near the place), time (a full day at least, long waits, possibly many return trips) and discomfort (hot, crowded etc). But I must say that I was treated fairly and courteously with no attempt at soliciting bribes (although I observed Thais paying them openly all over the place). If you look like an ordinary person (as opposed to someone doing commercial business) coming to get something that is obviously for personal use, and you're farang, they probably won't jerk you around any. But you'll still put in a whole lot of very uncomfortable time (if its BKK custioms, anyhow). Which together with the travel costs I gladly pay well to avoid -- if only there was a service worth hiring!

Maybe some of you TV members looking for business ideas could take this up??!!!

[Axel]

Not all parcels are stopped by customs but a selective inspection takes place. Size, origin and receiver can be reason for selction. This is very similar like somebody walking through customs at the airport. Some are stopped, some not.

For commercial shipments arriving by post, one usually has a commercial invoice showing a price.

A sample, declared as such usually will pass through even after inspection. Even with commercial invoice the customs officer might noty believe and estimate what s/he thinks to be real value.

The problem comes up with private parcels. No invoice and the customs officer is 'forced' to estimate the value. Here is the weak point, the officer is supposed to know the value and bases on similar or same items previously seen. Difficult to do and it ends up in a rule of thumb depending on the mood, the weather or whatever.

Once the value is determined to be over Baht 1000 duty and tax is due. Duty is based on the Thailand customs tariff clearly showing the duty amount (usually in percentage) for each item.

Tax is VAT, presently 7%

Calculation: Estimated value plus courier fees plus insurance-premium. (cif-value)

Duty on this total amount (can be 0%, 5%, 30% or whatever shown in the tariff)

Tax will be charged on top of cif-vlue plus duty.

Some more points here:

http://www.customs.go.th/Customs-Eng/Valua...nuNme=Valuation

[Sheryl]

I'll be returning to the LOS in July & was thinking of mailing my computer components to myself (motherboard, graphics card etc as I don't want to by a computer in the LOS). After reading the posts, I think I'll try to smuggling the pieces in my baggage instead of importing.

Yes, you are much better off bringing it than shipping it. But why "smuggle" and why dismantle? I assume it's been used already. Just bring it along in your accompanied baggage and head through the green channel.

It is rare that farang are stopped and their accompanied baggage checked. If for some reason it is, explain that it is tour own personal computer and used. Just in case, have the receipt to establish how long ago it was bought. I'd be willing to bet the just waive you through as it wouldn't be worth the paperwork to assess.

[gretyl]

When I moved here I had three very large boxes of household and personal items sent via ship, the verrrry slow way. They arrived at different times, clearly handled differently, but none had an import tax due. The boxes weren't inspected, hadn't been opened.

Since then, I've had a problem receiving anything from the US, ordinary mail included. My son's birthday gift was shown as received AND returned in the leather ledger book with yellow pages that the HH post office keeps for general delivery mail reciepients, or others unknown. Yeah, and I have a post office box. There was no request from customs for anything, so that was that. The PO offered no explanation for its return, and the sender didn't get the gift back as a returned item, either. Somewhere in hinterland, someone's sporting a new O'Neill hooded sweatshirt, just too bad it's not a fake!

I've noted no method of transport as being more reliable/unreliable than the other, neither to nor from the US.

I fought like hello to get a post office box, but that didn't change incoming mail delivery, not at all, except that my local utilities have secure delivery to me.

A USPS Express mail delivery reached a couple of weeks ago, a delivery of an accumulated four months of mail from my US post office box. My friend didn't sort or discard junk mail, so I got it all - a whopping $158 worth for two boxes, but no customs charge due.

(I know there's a more cost efficient way, but it wasn't done as I'd asked.)

I'll add one other point to the 'use airmail' suggestion.

If at all possible have your letters / packages addressed in Thai. Most of my stuff from the UK is forwarded on by my parents, I've sent them my address in Thai (as a jpeg) which Dad uses to make sticky labels.

The only problem we've had was persuading the nice lady at the country post office that three lines of heiroglyphics with the word 'Thailand' at the bottom was an address

Homeland Security nailed my mail from Thailand to the US because I used a Thai return address labels. Same for US to Thailand, a big NO-NO for an address label in Thai, no matter that the bottom line is in English and indicates Thailand as country of destination. Mail was open and stamped, stamped, stamped in RED all over the envelope. Big warning... Suppose I am red-listed now?

I know mail works out just fine for most. It hasn't for me in the ten months I've lived here. I've gotten over it, mostly.

Could anyone please tell me, what might happen to an in-coming parcel, legit pharmacy with prescription meds from the US, Canada or Australia? Bad idea? Prohibited?

[elkangorito]

When I moved here I had three very large boxes of household and personal items sent via ship, the verrrry slow way. They arrived at different times, clearly handled differently, but none had an import tax due. The boxes weren't inspected, hadn't been opened.

Since then, I've had a problem receiving anything from the US, ordinary mail included. My son's birthday gift was shown as received AND returned in the leather ledger book with yellow pages that the HH post office keeps for general delivery mail reciepients, or others unknown. Yeah, and I have a post office box. There was no request from customs for anything, so that was that. The PO offered no explanation for its return, and the sender didn't get the gift back as a returned item, either. Somewhere in hinterland, someone's sporting a new O'Neill hooded sweatshirt, just too bad it's not a fake!

I've noted no method of transport as being more reliable/unreliable than the other, neither to nor from the US.

I fought like hello to get a post office box, but that didn't change incoming mail delivery, not at all, except that my local utilities have secure delivery to me.

A USPS Express mail delivery reached a couple of weeks ago, a delivery of an accumulated four months of mail from my US post office box. My friend didn't sort or discard junk mail, so I got it all - a whopping $158 worth for two boxes, but no customs charge due.

(I know there's a more cost efficient way, but it wasn't done as I'd asked.)

I'll add one other point to the 'use airmail' suggestion.

If at all possible have your letters / packages addressed in Thai. Most of my stuff from the UK is forwarded on by my parents, I've sent them my address in Thai (as a jpeg) which Dad uses to make sticky labels.

The only problem we've had was persuading the nice lady at the country post office that three lines of heiroglyphics with the word 'Thailand' at the bottom was an address

Homeland Security nailed my mail from Thailand to the US because I used a Thai return address labels. Same for US to Thailand, a big NO-NO for an address label in Thai, no matter that the bottom line is in English and indicates Thailand as country of destination. Mail was open and stamped, stamped, stamped in RED all over the envelope. Big warning... Suppose I am red-listed now?

I know mail works out just fine for most. It hasn't for me in the ten months I've lived here. I've gotten over it, mostly.

Could anyone please tell me, what might happen to an in-coming parcel, legit pharmacy with prescription meds from the US, Canada or Australia? Bad idea? Prohibited?

I think that the 'human rights friendly' Homeland Security legislation (yeah, right!) may have something to do with this. George, 'I don't mind killing people for oil', Bush has successfully been able to shove a microscope up the <deleted> of anything vaguely connected with the USA, all in the name of God & Homeland Security. Maybe you can get USA packages sent to another country, Australia or UK for example, & then get the packages forwarded to Thailand from these non USA countries? I know this is the long way around but it may work.

[monochaser]

A couple of things regarding all this customs stuff:

1. to the OP: this is Thailand and anytime you are told you owe money here, you gotta pay it or pay the consequences. In this case it is the forfeiture of the package. When it comes to cash, there are no refunds, no waived fees. This is Thai policy. Cash is king here and every baht counts. you are fighting the city hall of Thai cash. In the case the fee was nominal so just pay it as you are arguing with a wall.

2. This notion of "cruising through the green lane" at the airport unobserved and unscathed because you are a farang is pure BS. Those customs people at airport watch everyone carefully and will pull you aside. I used to think the same thing so the last time I flew in (a few days ago), I observed them as they scritinized with a wary eye each passerby. I had a large duty free bag and a tiny carryon and the guy looked at me hawkishly. I was shocked he did not pull me aside. Be aware and be careful; take no chances

Edited May 20, 2006 by monochaser

[Sheryl]

Could anyone please tell me, what might happen to an in-coming parcel, legit pharmacy with prescription meds from the US, Canada or Australia? Bad idea? Prohibited?

Not prohibited, but a chance of it falling into the black hole of the FDA -- customs may send it to them for a permit. Especially likely if it comes in commercial packing.

Now, I've yet to see any answer ever emerge out of the FDA for anything. But if it ever did, it would presumably be based on whether or not the item was approved for use in Thailand,. If not -- the FDA might refuse to let it in.

Do you really need prescfription meds that are not available in Thailand? If so, are you also sure that what you need is not available in Cambodia? You can get a wider range of things there than here but do need to choose where you buy carefully to avoid counterfeits. (You can PM for specific advice if you like)

If you really do have to get meds shipped in, have them packed by a friend or relative and avoid labelling it as medicine or pharmaceuticals. Maybe include it with a few books or videos and label if "books and misc personal items" or something like that?

[elkangorito]

Could anyone please tell me, what might happen to an in-coming parcel, legit pharmacy with prescription meds from the US, Canada or Australia? Bad idea? Prohibited?

Not prohibited, but a chance of it falling into the black hole of the FDA -- customs may send it to them for a permit. Especially likely if it comes in commercial packing.

Now, I've yet to see any answer ever emerge out of the FDA for anything. But if it ever did, it would presumably be based on whether or not the item was approved for use in Thailand,. If not -- the FDA might refuse to let it in.

Do you really need prescfription meds that are not available in Thailand? If so, are you also sure that what you need is not available in Cambodia? You can get a wider range of things there than here but do need to choose where you buy carefully to avoid counterfeits. (You can PM for specific advice if you like)

If you really do have to get meds shipped in, have them packed by a friend or relative and avoid labelling it as medicine or pharmaceuticals. Maybe include it with a few books or videos and label if "books and misc personal items" or something like that?

What about 'sniffer' dogs? And is it somehow easier to bring the same drugs (meds) from Cambodia into Thailand?

[Sheryl]

This notion of "cruising through the green lane" at the airport unobserved and unscathed because you are a farang is pure BS. Those customs people at airport watch everyone carefully and will pull you aside. I used to think the same thing so the last time I flew in (a few days ago), I observed them as they scritinized with a wary eye each passerby. I had a large duty free bag and a tiny carryon and the guy looked at me hawkishly. I was shocked he did not pull me aside. Be aware and be careful; take no chances

They do watch everyone, and customs officials all over the world seem to have a sixth sense for people trying to pull something off. There are several motivations at work in pulling peopkle over. One is to catch people who are seriously up to no good, which my guess is they do pretty much irrespective of nationality. The other is to squeeze a bribe out of people who aren't doing anything particulalry wrong but will pay to avoid hassle. This I think is seldom done with farangs except for those whjo appear to be bringing in things for comemrcial purposes. Certainly one sees a far higher percentage of thais than farangs stopped.

But the larger question is -- what is one risking by brining in one's own computer? Is there a requirement that a single used computer for personal use has to be declared? If so please give the details.

Tons of people -- myself including -- pass through openly carrying laptops, I've never seen or heard of anyone being told they have to declare it. Is there some separate rule for desktops? I thought electronics just depend on value (and that used personal items don't have to be valued at original purchase price)-- wrong??

[Tywais]

Not all parcels are stopped by customs but a selective inspection takes place. Size, origin and receiver can be reason for selction. This is very similar like somebody walking through customs at the airport. Some are stopped, some not.

I just went through that this week. Several months ago I ordered some specialized parts to repair equipment where I work from the US. Came straight through to the laboratory with no problems and no customs. Had to order the same parts a couple of weeks ago for repairing another system and it is now stuck in customs. Same parts, same company same country same method of delivery USPS Express Air and same labeling.

To make things worse someone else picked up the customs notice at the post office and looked like it was lost. Customs said without that they would not release the package. They said we would have to file a police report and then that sent to Bangkok for final release. Fortunately our runner did find it in another pidgeon hole at work.

[qualtrough]

A couple of things regarding all this customs stuff:

[snip]

2. This notion of "cruising through the green lane" at the airport unobserved and unscathed because you are a farang is pure BS. Those customs people at airport watch everyone carefully and will pull you aside. I used to think the same thing so the last time I flew in (a few days ago), I observed them as they scritinized with a wary eye each passerby. I had a large duty free bag and a tiny carryon and the guy looked at me hawkishly. I was shocked he did not pull me aside. Be aware and be careful; take no chances

Pure BS? Sorry about your bad luck, but I think you are the exception to the rule. Actually not, because re-reading your post I see that you were after all not hit for any duty! I have probably flown back to Thailand 30 + times since first arriving here some years ago. Most trips I arrive with the maximum luggage allowance from the US, 70 kgs. checked, plus carryon. Several times I have arrived with my family (total of 4), with 4 x 70 kgs, plus carryon luggage. Always bring back goodies, including digital camera, new clothing, gifts, digital video camera, Weber grille, GPS, you name it. Never once have I been asked to pay duty. Only once or twice have I even been questioned. I just said these were personal items (the truth), and that was that. If you are a farang and this is not your experience you may wish to reconsider your sartorial and/or grooming habits, or karma.

I know for a fact that farangs have it much, much easier with customs in Thailand than some other races. Just watch what happens to Indians, poor folks! If you have to stand in any customs lines anywhere in Thailand, do not get behind anyone from S. Asia. They will be grilled mercilessly and you may be in for a very long wait.

[chuchok]

Not all parcels are stopped by customs but a selective inspection takes place. Size, origin and receiver can be reason for selction. This is very similar like somebody walking through customs at the airport. Some are stopped, some not.

For commercial shipments arriving by post, one usually has a commercial invoice showing a price.

A sample, declared as such usually will pass through even after inspection. Even with commercial invoice the customs officer might noty believe and estimate what s/he thinks to be real value.

The problem comes up with private parcels. No invoice and the customs officer is 'forced' to estimate the value. Here is the weak point, the officer is supposed to know the value and bases on similar or same items previously seen. Difficult to do and it ends up in a rule of thumb depending on the mood, the weather or whatever.

Once the value is determined to be over Baht 1000 duty and tax is due. Duty is based on the Thailand customs tariff clearly showing the duty amount (usually in percentage) for each item.

Tax is VAT, presently 7%

Calculation: Estimated value plus courier fees plus insurance-premium. (cif-value)

Duty on this total amount (can be 0%, 5%, 30% or whatever shown in the tariff)

Tax will be charged on top of cif-vlue plus duty.

Some more points here:

http://www.customs.go.th/Customs-Eng/Valua...nuNme=Valuation

There are so many people here that are just guessing.Axel is in the freight business and knows whats going on.

If you think that your bags are checked just on one or two Customs Officers wim, think again. This might happen a every now and then, but Thailand , like MOST countries have you on camera as soon as you disenbark from the aircraft, and people that are searched are normally "dobbed' in or show behaviour that is not normall.However, I have noticed that people with dark skin from the African continant are checked more often than your average caucasian traveler.I wonder why?

[solo siam]

UPS and Fedex charge a customs handling fee, it gets rushed through customs and you dont have to wait 2 weeks to get your goods.

I import stuff regularly and have never once had a problem with UPS or Fedex, quite the opposite, they always seem to be able to negotiate better customs rates than I and I just pay them at the door. The one time I had something airmailed, I had to go to Phuket Town, wait two hours, sign a bunch of forms and lug the stuff back to my house.

Most countries have a small gift allowance, anything above that and it all gets taxed - In the UK its 16 pounds or something, so it would make sense for it to be even lower than that in Thailand.

I actually find that the Thai postal service, Fedex and UPS operations are actually remarkably good, I have posted over 100 envelopes/packages and only ever had one returned (nd ll teh rest got through OK). I don't understand why in Thailand registered mail costs like 50c and everywhere else its like $10, its the same amount of work on both sides.

[Tywais]

It is not UPS or fedex that names the duty on an item it is customs.

Not sure what you are saying here. There is a customs declaration form that has to be filled out by the person shipping to identify the items in the container and there estimated cost for customs to base a charge on.

[elkangorito]

This notion of "cruising through the green lane" at the airport unobserved and unscathed because you are a farang is pure BS. Those customs people at airport watch everyone carefully and will pull you aside. I used to think the same thing so the last time I flew in (a few days ago), I observed them as they scritinized with a wary eye each passerby. I had a large duty free bag and a tiny carryon and the guy looked at me hawkishly. I was shocked he did not pull me aside. Be aware and be careful; take no chances

They do watch everyone, and customs officials all over the world seem to have a sixth sense for people trying to pull something off. There are several motivations at work in pulling peopkle over. One is to catch people who are seriously up to no good, which my guess is they do pretty much irrespective of nationality. The other is to squeeze a bribe out of people who aren't doing anything particulalry wrong but will pay to avoid hassle. This I think is seldom done with farangs except for those whjo appear to be bringing in things for comemrcial purposes. Certainly one sees a far higher percentage of thais than farangs stopped.

But the larger question is -- what is one risking by brining in one's own computer? Is there a requirement that a single used computer for personal use has to be declared? If so please give the details.

Tons of people -- myself including -- pass through openly carrying laptops, I've never seen or heard of anyone being told they have to declare it. Is there some separate rule for desktops? I thought electronics just depend on value (and that used personal items don't have to be valued at original purchase price)-- wrong??

Considering that the immediate discussion was about 'meds', what has computers got to do with this?

Also, customs officers are trained (generally) to observe the actions of people. These actions relate to eye movement & facial expressions as well as body language. I have been picked up on this & I was not guilty of anything except being upset because of a 'shorter than expected' stay in another country. My baggage was totally searched. Believe me, this is more about your actions/reactions than your baggage contents...unless the 'sniffer dogs' detect something. They will detect many things as their noses are not perfect.

[Sheryl]

UPS and Fedex charge a customs handling fee, it gets rushed through customs and you dont have to wait 2 weeks to get your goods.

I import stuff regularly and have never once had a problem with UPS or Fedex, quite the opposite, they always seem to be able to negotiate better customs rates than I and I just pay them at the door. The one time I had something airmailed, I had to go to Phuket Town, wait two hours, sign a bunch of forms and lug the stuff back to my house.

Your expereinces with UPS and fedEx are quite different than mine, and aparently that of most of the others who have posted so far. Maybe you've just been lucky, or maybe it's a difference in the UPS/FedEx branch office, and also I would guess that the items you were getting were pretty straightfoward in nature (i.e. didn't need a lot of explanation to customs as to their nature and how they should be classified for tariff purposes) -- but in that case, why bother paying anyone for customs handling? Those type things will get through on their own.

Re airmail: I also have to go to the post office most of the time (occasionally, if it's small and had no duty, the postman will bring it). All I have to sign is a simple ledger and where I live, there's no wait at all, but of course this last will vary with location.

For those for whom a post office trip is a lot of hassle, it may be worth it to pay for UPS/FedEx handling (assuming they actually deliver to your home, which they have been hopelessly inept at doing for me...won't even try unless I call them and provide directions ,g et lost despite same, etc -- and mine is very easy place to find). But I would still strongly advise against using them for anything that is likely to prove time consuming or difficult in customs.

Nothing I have gotten by FedEx or UPS has been rushed through customs. In 2 cases, more than a SIX MONTH wait (aggravated by FedEx repeatedly losing the file, bouncing it from desk to desk and forgetting to follow up) -- five of these at my expense (storage fees).

Since no one has volunteered alternative recommendations I tend to think there is no efficient service in Thailand for handling customs clearances other than the most routine. At this point, I have of necessity gone to customs enough to Know what it entails and it is not rocket science. It is however very labor/time intensive and, for expat recipients, would need someone fluent in English and conversant with a range of Western consumer goods (i.e. capable of comprehending what a "portable jacuzzi" or "portable spa" is, which nobody at FedEx could despite lengthy descriptions). Now I've got a profession already, but there out to be someone out there interested in starting up a business?? Could be part-time thing and the gruelling leg work could be done by local staff as long as there was someone sufficiwently bilingual to explain to them what they need to be able to explain to customs...

[markuk]

The other day UPS comes to my door with a package. It was from my mother in Canada and since it is my birthday in a few days I suspect it to be a gift. However, the customs are asking that I pay duty on it, to the tune of 618 Baht. I thought this to be steep for a few reasons, mainly that I did not buy anything and that it is a gift. And that the stated value on the invoice says 1000 Baht. So, UPS took it back since I refused to pay and now they are saying that they are going to send it back to Canada. This is very frustrating since there is a birthday card inside if they would care to open it. I am going to go down to the UPS depot in CM tomorrow to see what can be done. What bothers me is that someone made a mistake but no one seems to want to sort it out, just send it back is the easy way out.

I have never had a problem like this before and my family have sent many packages and I have also ordered things from overseas companies without issue. Has something changed? Has anyone else had any similar experiences? Is there any recourse that I can take?

This has now put me on gard for any further mailings as I would hate to see the duty on something that I actually did purchase!

Any comments?

ask what the breakdown of the 650 baht is, some will be customs duty some will be processing and delivery from UPS, the package should have clearly stated whats inside and why when it has come from Canada would the declared value be 1000 Baht - it should be in Canadian currency, this could cause confusion.

At the end of the day, this is Thailand sometimes we win, sometimes we lose - not much you can do about it. If you would rather lose the gift then let it go back, if not pay up, be aware that you may be charged storage now as it is with UPS!!!

[ZEAK]

Just an update to those here who told me not to fight the losing battle. The other day I received a credit note from UPS for 318 Baht, when in fact I only paid them 300 Baht to get my package. I did write a two brief letters to UPS when this was going on to let them know that there is something wrong with my situation. I guess it sometimes does pay to take a stand and not just turn around and bend over as some mentioned I should do on this forum.

"Those that say it can not be done are passed by those doing it"

It is not the money but the principle. And even though I have this credit with UPS Thailand I will NEVER use them as I have learnt my lesson.

Just wanted to share this to give others a ray of hope to do something when they feel they are being taken advantage of.

over...