Good ends can't justify bad means: Thai opinion

[webfact]

STREETWISE
Good ends can't justify bad means
Achara Deboonme



The end justifies the means." Italian thinker Niccolo Machiavelli coined the now-famous statement, which sweeps away the need for moral action in achieving an objective. The method used to attain our goal is thus of no consequence.

Had he lived, Machiavelli would perhaps be surprised at how seriously his "thought experiment" is being applied. Some Thai politicians are following his words to the letter, probably convinced that the ends they are seeking will leave Thailand cured of its ills.

Chief among those ills is corruption.

The Anti-Corruption Organisation of Thailand is in no doubt of that fact. And it is pointing the finger firmly at politicians (more precisely, some politicians).

The organisation, comprising large nationwide businesses, places little blame on the companies who bribe officials for contracts. The Securities and Exchange Commission announced late in December that 264 among more than 500 listed companies have applied to join the Collective Action Coalition Against Corruption Council. But only nine have become members of the coalition, which is supported by the government and the Office of the National Anti-Corruption Commission.

In my world of the media, junior reporters cultivate contacts with government officials in the hope they get promoted to powerful positions and become valuable news sources.

This kind of patronage system can be seen at all levels of Thai society. In a village, relatives and friends of the headman seek his help to solve their problems. At government offices, influential figures usually receive quicker service.

Many of us fail to understand the constitutional duties of officials and get mad when influential relatives fail to solve their problems. Reporters sometimes get angry when sources decline to answer questions. Some officials, wanting to please, succumb to the pressure. As a result many no longer know which "hat". they are wearing and what they should expect from other citizens.

With this patronage system in place, I doubt the desire of the People's Democratic Reform Committee (PDRC) to end corruption will be successful. The Shinawatra clan is just a group of people who built up fortunes thanks to the patronage system. Eradicating them would not help, when many others are doing the same thing but staying out of the political spotlight.

Given there is no end in sight to the political stalemate, the PDRC's moves to boycott the February 2 election also seem questionable.

Banning Pheu Thai politicians for five years will not help in clean up Thailand if the patronage system remains. And on what grounds should they be banned? They made a mistake in voting for the controversial amnesty bill, but it is for all Thais to decide if they should be punished - not the PDRC.

Equal rights for all citizens have been enshrined in all our constitutions, from 1932 to the current 2007-drafted charter. Ripping these rights away would only lead to more protests. The threat of this explains why Bangkokians have gathered at the Bangkok Art and Culture Centre to oppose the PDRC's plan to paralyse Bangkok on January 13. Violence seems inevitable as the United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship plans a counter-rally.

It explains why the Stock Exchange tumbled by 74 points in the first two days of 2014, with the baht weakening 0.4 per cent to 33 per US dollar. The speed of the weakening does not correspond with economic fundamentals and is faster than any economic expert estimated.

Suan Dusit Poll reports that about 54 per cent of 1,159 people polled in Greater Bangkok said they were afraid the plan to shut down Bangkok would strangle economic activity.

Kasikornbank chairman Banthoon Lamsam warned recently that foreign investors look at two things when deciding where to put their money. The first is political stability. The second is macro-economic figures.

Banthoon voiced concern that Thai laws are always interpretable, with lawmakers failing to cover all scenarios when drafting legislation. In contrast, people in the US, where he was educated, respect principles drawn up after years of infighting. Here in Thailand, there are no common principles and the ruling class decides what is best. As the ruling class fights, ordinary people who have lost faith in governing institutions take to the streets. They resort to rules that will help them win, against rules held up by the other camp. In the end, there's no winner, he said.

To Banthoon, the regime is secondary; it is honest and capable leaders that counts.

If the PDRC is successful in setting up a People's Council and confiscating politicians' assets and power, we can expect a painful ending with no real finality. Things are obviously not as simple as they were in Machiavelli's times.


-- The Nation 2014-01-07

[bangkokheat]

i wonder if politicians or thais in general for that matter feel any shame for their poorly run corrupt country, the world is watching

[Thaddeus]

This question can only truly be answered when the 'good ends' happen.

For years now all we have witnessed is 'bad means, bad ends'

[Cricketnut]

Quote " I doubt the desire of the People's Democratic Reform Committee (PDRC) to end corruption will be successful. The Shinawatra clan is just a group of people who built up fortunes thanks to the patronage system. Eradicating them would not help, when many others are doing the same thing but staying out of the political spotlight.

Given there is no end in sight to the political stalemate, the PDRC's moves to boycott the February 2 election also seem questionable.

Banning Pheu Thai politicians for five years will not help in clean up Thailand if the patronage system remains. And on what grounds should they be banned? They made a mistake in voting for the controversial amnesty bill, but it is for all Thais to decide if they should be punished - not the PDRC.

Equal rights for all citizens have been enshrined in all our constitutions, from 1932 to the current 2007-drafted charter. Ripping these rights away would only lead to more protests. The threat of this explains why Bangkokians have gathered at the Bangkok Art and Culture Centre to oppose the PDRC's plan to paralyse Bangkok on January 13. Violence seems inevitable as the United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship plans a counter-rally." End of Quote.

Now, does this explain things to the average farang living here? Putting it succinctly, YES. Where one can lay a proportion of blame is on the Education system. In general, Thais are simply taught to learn by rote, note to analyse or critically think a subject through to obtain a multitude of possibilities. This is why we are in the current situation, a madman Suthep, leading the general Thai population to revolt simply through rote, or repeating over and over on a daily basis. So in the end the people are inoculated by his manner and guile, a lot like a charismatic buffoon and follow the steps into tyranny worse then what many on this site see and think as the Shinawatra Clan. Sure they have made a lot of money just like any other politician in the world. Why does everyone think that Obama had sooo many problems getting his healthcare package through? Simple, because too many politicians would lose out on their money when shares dropped in their chosen healthcare companies. Time to wake up people. This is happening all over the world. Hmm, I wonder how we will all like it if Sutheps People council comes into power. You tell me...

[ramrod711]

Banning Pheu Thai politicians for five years will not help in clean up Thailand if the patronage system remains. And on what grounds should they be banned? They made a mistake in voting for the controversial amnesty bill, but it is for all Thais to decide if they should be punished - not the PDRC.

Oh, I see, it was all an innocent mistake, they weren't sure what they were voting for. It was confusing, were they voting to drop all the charges against Thaksin, or to drop all the corrruption charges against them selves and their friends. I can see where that might cause someone to make a "mistake" like that.

[noitom]

The end for which Thailand "leadership" through the years has focused, has been to suppress the knowledge, information and education of the poor.

[Blue Lover]

I can only shake my head!

[virtualtraveller]

There's a critical mass in society when one particular group comes along and pushes things to the limit. Thaksin will be remembered as that person, demonstrating who corruption could get out of control in the wrong hands. Whether any meaningful change will come from this is debatable but I doubt Thaksin will be exerting the power he once did. It's over for him, it's all now just an exit strategy, though he doesn't realise it yet. Too many people now are against him.

[willyumiii]

For many in Thailand there is no world except for Thailand..

so, no they do not care what others think of their corrupt country.

What others???/

[pisico]

Bad means, bad ends, bad system of governance. But... TIT

As of late Thailand is portraying itself as a Third World country.

They do not like the government? An Army Coup!

They lost the elections? Insurrection and shutting down a city of 13 million people!

Thais cannot see the future past the tip of their noses.

What have Thais that is genuinely Thai: rice and the lavish palaces to attract the foreign tourists.

Foreign investment and knowledge were the ones that developed Thailand in the 90s.

The economy is plummeting. The SET is plummeting. The Baht is plummeting. Do the protesters care or worry bout any of that?

Of course not!

Thais are copiers, followers, reactive and self-absorbed in their selfishness they insist upon calling Thainess.

Before this country can be really stable and productive Thais will need to eat a large slice of humble pie to understand the meaning of having to pay for the consequences of their actions..

I feel sorry for those Westerners who built families here, invested time effort and money only to see the place they thought it was paradise to reveal itself as a glorified banana republic.

PS to the Thai apologists: as I requested several times in the recent past: please, post a list of

1- Thai Nobel Prize recipients in any discipline.

2- A list of names of Thai inventors, their inventions and how they contributed to the wealth of humankind with the products of their talents.

[Ulic]

The stated goal of the PDRC is to "put an end to corruption". But what they really mean is we want to end

corruption of the other political parties by pushing them out of power and installing ourselves. We will

then be free to feed at the government trough. Just as Suthep did during his last stint in power.

[tingtongteesood]

And what proof do you have of this statement Ulic ? Those who favour the reds or simply dislike Suthep keep saying this but has it actually ever occurred to you that maybe the country would be better with the Shin regime ? And Suthep has said many times he doesn't want to be PM. FACTS PLEASE.

[blabth]

The objective of Khun S were from the beginning personnel oriented as a vendetta against the Shin Family. He and his supporters have planned this whole exercise for some longer time. That the main guys in the back have selected Khun S as the main figure is not so clear for me. A guy who does not have the reputation to be Mr. Clean. I am sure that the big boys in the back are happy with his performance but only recently his demands are getting out of control, it becomes the demand of a guy which now is over confident. Demanding that the police obeys his rules, putting everybody who is not of his opinion under a spell, asking the PM to live Thailand etc. can be only described as the output of a damaged brain.

The damage done to the image of Thailand will put the development of Thailand back few years. It's easy to lose the trust but it will be difficult to built it back. Not all means are allowed to reach a objective. Still Thailand has a legal system to deal with situation.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[wwest5829]

Banning Pheu Thai politicians for five years will not help in clean up Thailand if the patronage system remains. And on what grounds should they be banned? They made a mistake in voting for the controversial amnesty bill, but it is for all Thais to decide if they should be punished - not the PDRC.

Oh, I see, it was all an innocent mistake, they weren't sure what they were voting for. It was confusing, were they voting to drop all the charges against Thaksin, or to drop all the corrruption charges against them selves and their friends. I can see where that might cause someone to make a "mistake" like that.

It is interesting how folks can read things differently. When i read " they made a mistake", I agreed because I think it was a huge political mistake. Not that it was a fault of not understanding what they were doing. I do not question the idea of allowing Thaksin to come home. But I do have an honest question. Was the wording only to forgive the Pleu Thai side? Or was the wording to forgive the 2010 debacle leaders, as well? Political miscalculation (OK, huge) and it was stopped due to political pressure without violence, shutdown, etc. isn't that the way its supposed to work? And then, the party answers to their actions through free elections.

[pisico]

And what proof do you have of this statement Ulic ? Those who favour the reds or simply dislike Suthep keep saying this but has it actually ever occurred to you that maybe the country would be better with the Shin regime ? And Suthep has said many times he doesn't want to be PM. FACTS PLEASE.

FACTS YOU ASKED: HERE ARE SOME SOBERING ONES

As all Thais politicos, Suthep relies on a cult of personality and tribal loyalty, to build support for his political and personal goals.

Research it and think about it.

In the same way that Thaksin’s political support is built around a network of family heavily into politics...

SURPRISE!!! Suthep had four family members in politics, this was before they resigned to protest, and he is the most powerful man in the Democrat Party as he controls the southern MPs.

In 1995, Suthep’s Sor Por Kor 4-01 land scheme scandal led to the downfall of the Democrat-led Chuan Leekpai government.

As a Miniser of Agriculture he resigned under threat of being indicted.... Of course. there’s the rubber shenanigans during the Abhisit Vejjajiva-led government... and the Palm Oil Scheme.

That is a partial background of a man who “claims” he does not want to be PM.

Would you buy a used car from him?

[Scamper]

There is no question the truth of this article. Corruption is spread with a wide brush, and cannot be attributed to any particular party - although it must be added that if any particular party is in power the opportunities for corruption are exponentially multiplied. To truly combat corruption there must be a genuine will to do so. After all, the perks of corruption are undeniably seductive. So the best investment is to ensure that the bodies set up to monitor and discipline it - like the NACC - are given all the power they can handle. Corruption will only thrive if there are no real impediments to it. Having said all this, its application is endemic and widespread, and will take probably years - with even the best of intentions - to even make even a small dent in it. Another pillar that makes corruption more likely to thrive is the application of the electoral system. The reality of vote buying is now pretty much accepted as fact. But the awarding of contracts, infrastructure programmes - all are ripe opportunities to cross the line between helping communities and kickbacks, and outright voter fraud. And finally another pillar is education. If the education system is lacking, it will be reflected at the ballot box. It could be said that there exist therefore parties whose vested interest is to promote knowledge, and others whose vested interest is to placate ignorance. There is no question that the latter will bring more of a climate of corruption than the former. What is very, very positive about the present situation in Thailand, is that there is clearly a very genuine and widespread conviction that corruption must be dealt with once and for all. And that's a good start.

[Mrgk]

So the best investment is to ensure that the bodies set up to monitor and discipline it - like the NACC - are given all the power they can handle. Corruption will only thrive if there are no real impediments to it. Having said all this, its application is endemic and widespread, and will take probably years - with even the best of intentions - to even make even a small dent in it.

In a corrupt society with limited democratic stability and accountability investing a single body with tremendous power is a huge gamble, for reasons that should be obvious. Thailand´s history gives little reason to think this time would be different.

Empirically, the hardest institution to corrupt (despite vote-buying, sabotage, etc.) has been elections. This is easily seen as they keep producing the "wrong" results relative to the wishes of the monied Bangkok elite. In short, the current anti-democracy movement is not (as stated) about the corruptibility of democratic elections, but on the contrary it is the very resilience of elections to manipulation through graft and violence that antagonizes them.

This also tells us something important about the current fracas over "corruption" - it is not really about corruption at all, but rather "corruption" is but a slogan used as a rallying cry to justify sabotaging the current elections to set the stage for yet another a coup (be it military or judicial, or both). The sheer hilarity of having Suthep playing the role of anti-corruption stalwart should be enough to give the game away. After the coup, it will be business as usual, aside from some redistribution of confiscated assets, naturally.

Edited January 7, 2014 by Mrgk

[crazydrummerpauly]

For many in Thailand there is no world except for Thailand..

so, no they do not care what others think of their corrupt country.

What others???/

And what percentage of Americans have a passport and/or care about the world outside the USA, or even their State ?

[crazydrummerpauly]

I don't know much about the intricacies of Thai politics and i'm sure it would be a total waste of my time to try to find out. But one thing the OP needs to know 100% - 'Bad means' have often justified 'Good ends' - of course they have. How fatuous to frame an article with an 'O'-level philosophy question that History reveals to be merely an academic work-out !

[rickirs]

"The end justifies the means" is nonjudicial in nature that exists only in a totalitarion society. It is guilty until proven innocent. It has no place in a democratic system. Conjunctive with this saying is that "bad means justify worse means." This follows that the alleged undemoctratic behavior of the Pheu Thai leadership (past & present) justifies even more unconstitutional and undemocratic behavior of its opposition. It does not in a democractic society. Thus, Suthep's plans to essentially suspend democracy, ironically in the name of democracy, and recreate a new constitution by minority mob rule is a path consistent with the establishment of a totolitarian society. I hope the people of Thailand and those leaders responsible for their freedom and security take the right path for their future.

[Centrum]

And what proof do you have of this statement Ulic ? Those who favour the reds or simply dislike Suthep keep saying this but has it actually ever occurred to you that maybe the country would be better with the Shin regime ? And Suthep has said many times he doesn't want to be PM. FACTS PLEASE.

FACTS YOU ASKED: HERE ARE SOME SOBERING ONES

As all Thais politicos, Suthep relies on a cult of personality and tribal loyalty, to build support for his political and personal goals.

Research it and think about it.

In the same way that Thaksin’s political support is built around a network of family heavily into politics...

SURPRISE!!! Suthep had four family members in politics, this was before they resigned to protest, and he is the most powerful man in the Democrat Party as he controls the southern MPs.

In 1995, Suthep’s Sor Por Kor 4-01 land scheme scandal led to the downfall of the Democrat-led Chuan Leekpai government.

As a Miniser of Agriculture he resigned under threat of being indicted.... Of course. there’s the rubber shenanigans during the Abhisit Vejjajiva-led government... and the Palm Oil Scheme.

That is a partial background of a man who “claims” he does not want to be PM.

Would you buy a used car from him?

It seems Suthep's cult of personality has influenced you as well.

There are massive numbers of Thai people on the streets who are there simply because they hate the corrupt Thaksin regime.

Suthep is the figurehead of that movement but by no means fully supported by all and sundry.

If the red shirts and PTP could rid themselves of Thaksin's influence we would have a different situation. The cancer would be removed and everyone would go home. PTP would probably still win the next election.

But the FACTS are, they can't. They won't.

Thaksin IS PTP and the redshirts.

Now that's a sobering thought!

[attento]

Who can judge "what is best" for a country? Does a democratic election always produce the result which will prove the "best at governance" ?

There are examples from around the world where the successful candidate/party has gone on to be a great disappointment, if not disaster, to that country.

The tribal nature of the opposing sides today, shows there is a long way to go before a sophisticated and knowledgable electorate emerges.

Whatever Thailand needs now politically, it is unlikely to achieve it in the near future.

Edited January 7, 2014 by attento