One killed and over 20 injured in Thai school bus accident

[Pomthai]

This is the engine can be turned off to retard the vehicle if the brakes fail.

??????????

What he means is that if the engine is shut off on a manual vehicle at least, in an emergency situation (such as real brake failure) there is a significant amount of braking force on the driven wheels due to the compression. Using a low gear and taking your foot off the throttle does essentially the same thing even with the engine running.

For any of the above to have any effect the vehicle must be in a gear. The lower the gear, the greater the effect.

Edited January 8, 2014 by Pomthai

[Ulic]

A truck being used as a school bus, being driven by someone who did not know to gear down driving downhill.

Will things ever change here. Condolence to the family of the dead child and a speedy and full recovery to the

rest. I also hope those responsibly for transporting kids this way are held responsible.

[sawadeeken]

My sympathies to the injured and RIP the poor young girl.

Everyone above seem se agree about the brakes. Most drivers seem to know about the brakes on a vehicle, But it should be emphasised to drivers carrying passengers that brakes have their limitations and teach these drivers not to drive so as to need maximum braking. As very likely in this case the driver was going like hell and it was impossible for the brakes to stop him.......... and then he uses brakes as an excuse............. there is a chance in a million that the vehicle developed a broken brake line just before that curve.

I've been a driver carrying passengers for hire (school and passenger busses) all my life and the companies I worked for 'required' me to attend many, many saftey meetings. And Brakes and following distance are the two things that they drummed into your head.

What a pity that life is so cheap here............... Obviously cheaper than training for these drivers...............

Also possible that the driver was just finishing up a text message just before the curve.

In any case this very young lady will be missed by many......... RIP

[marcusd]

Looks more like a truck than a bus. The usual excuse brakes failed but no one ever learns the lesson and conducts regular mechanical and safety checks.

Always money for beer but never safety. And they love their children... So this is how you love your kids eh?

Sent from my RM-892_apac_laos_thailand_219 using Tapatalk

[marcusd]

Brake failure again. Must be bad Karma. Nothing to do with bad people, ingnorance, bad systems, GREED etc. The dreaded H.. word for brake failure springs to mind.

Thailand is finally making it big time (as a failed state)

maybe the swampy ghost did it after the prayers moved it on

Sent from my RM-892_apac_laos_thailand_219 using Tapatalk

[circusman]

Dreadful. Condolences to the families concerned.

Just look in the picture at how the boy is going to be transported to hospital....pitiful.

That's what they use for EMF why is it pitiful, O forgot not up to those western standards left behind.

"That's what they use for EMF why is it pitiful, O forgot not up to those western standards left behind."

Here at Thai Visa unfortunate events like this, or actually any event, is just one more opportunity to bash Thais and Thailand. If only Thailand were just like the paradise the posters came from back in farang utopia (and from which the same whiners fled because they couldn't afford the expense of living in a nanny state).

Yes, well-paid,well-trained drivers of well-maintained vehicles would be nice as would state-of-the-art emergency transport. And, as we all know, back in the west all of these things are "free," if you ignore the burdensome taxes, unchecked fiat currency printing and trillions in debt being used and which will be our special gift for future generations.

In the meantime some sympathy for the family of the deceased child might be nice from all those who consider themselves spokesmen for the advanced western civilized world.

Sympathy for the family? You think they read this blog? When they are issued it is just empty words from someone who does not know the family and said family who will not read the wishes.

[falangadang]

In Oz, we have road signs "STEEP HILL. HEAVY VEHICLES ENGAGE LOW GEAR". This is the engine can be turned off to retard the vehicle if the brakes fail. I have to wonder what gear this truck was in, if any.

Yes mate,.. and also we have drivers that can apply common sense and have decent driver training skills!

RIP to the poor deceased girl and condolences to the family.

[finnomick]

Use lower gears...not a chance. Assuming that the vehicle has a manual rather than automatic transmission, I would bet that most drivers--professional or otherwise--don't shift into a lower gear, but rather into neutral when power is not needed, e.g., when going downhill or when approaching a stop sign. Saves gas, I guess. It's a new and dangerous way of thinking.

You, like most other posters offering their ill-founded opinions have obviously never been in a truck let alone driven one. No driver worth his salt would accelerate down a hill or as you suggest, put it in neutral. This is asking for an accident to happen. 99% of truck drivers will automatically engage a lower gear before descending a hill. If the gradient is very steep, they'll even engage first or crawler gear. Putting the gearbox into neutral would also have the effect of reducing the speed/rpm of the engine which would reduce the amount of air the compressor builds up into the air tanks -- you do know trucks use air for brakes ? Thus, the more you operate the brake pedal, the more air you use and when the tanks run out of air, you've got a problem. Then you have the ' dead man's handle ' which will stop a truck on a sixpence -- sorry, this will indicate just how long I've been driving trucks up to 44 tonnes all over the world. AND, in addition to the normal brakes and the ' dead man's handle ', you have the exhaust brake or what's called the Jake brake in America. I won't go into the technicalities of what happens if an air-line breaks because most people wouldnt understand. Rant over.

What concerns me more that, despite recent legislation to introduce seat belts to all buses is the fact that these converted trucks just have bench seats to which seat belts are not fitted. Add to this the fact that most of the children sit sideways to the direction of travel, a seat belt would not be of too much effect unless as in this case, the truck/bus turned over. The government needs to revue school transport very quickly. Make the truck/bus operators change their seats to properly mounted seats across the vehicle with a central aisle. This way, seat belts could be fitted and would work properly if the children bothered to put them on that is. No children should be allowed to stand on the rear platform whilst the vehicle is in motion, and above all, no children sitting on the roof. That's carnage just waiting to happen. So how would you enforce and rules ? You'd need a ' conductor ' to supervise the children. One other thing that also needs to be changed which happens on the school buses that go past my home. Only one child in the cab with the driver, not 5 or 6. There is only one seat so that means one person. All the old green Mercedes buses that were scrapped in Bangkok a few years ago are appearing in the villages and are being used for transporting children to school. OK., the buses are old but they do have proper seats with hand rails etc., and a central aisle. They do not have rear platforms and there is no ladder to the roof so the children are all contained in the proper seating area. Fit seat belts to these and many lives could be saved.

[lucjoker]

the value of a child's life is so low here in Thailand that

they transport children in an old open truck with

a no licensed driver and probl. no insurance .

The parents themselves know their children are loaded into

a truck like cattle,to be be brought to a "school" to learn what?

[atyclb]

Brake Failure and Brain Failure are synonymous if not interchangeable.

Poor little girl, mommy and daddy weep.

[DekDaeng]

99% of truck drivers will automatically engage a lower gear before descending a hill.

How come all the 1% are in Thailand? And there are so many of them?

[DekDaeng]

'even the police are given shitty tray cabs but then they never go out on the roads anyway to police the laws.'

Sometime they do go out on the roads -

[Cuchulainn]

If it was brake failure (very unlikely but let's say so), would it not be too much to regularly inspect all buses ESPECIALLY ones carrying children?

Forensic testing first, then jail for life either the driver or the bus company owner. Here, life means life. That may turn a few heads.

[Greer]

My daughter told me yesterday about one her friends at school (she is in grade 12), one of the boys in the class, who was involved in a motorcycle accident - something none of his fellow students were surprised to hear as they all knew his approach to road safety.

Fortunately he was not killed, but did end up in ICU for a while. I said "Who pays for the hospital? Who pays for the damage to the car he hit?" - yes, his parents of course. He had been warned many times by his friends to take it easy and not speed, ride sensibly, take care - but of course he didn't listen - will he take heed in future? Who knows - maybe - but probably not. Oh - the car he hit was extensively damaged of course - and it happened to be PARKED at the time.

The point of all this is simply to say that driving skills and the sense of responsibility and common sense that should underlie the issuance of a license, simply don't exist in some people - this boy could easily have killed himself or someone else - no care or responsibility, despite numerous warnings from his (Thai) schoolmates, who apparently DO know better.

A pickup used as a school bus is typical in many places in Asia, and sadly the students are put at great risk by unthinking or uncaring people who, as adults, the kids should be able to trust.

Basic maintenance would solve many issues, but the overall thinking is to keep it cheap and get back to work.

Basic driver training to recognize dangerous situations and dangerous equipment should also be undertaken - but it doesn't happen.

For a child to lose his or her life because of this totally irresponsible approach to road safety, is both disgusting, and totally avoidable.

My condolences to the family of the student killed - her death is tragic and another to add to the ever growing list of unnecessary losses. So very sad.

[cup-O-coffee]

I can't say I am sympathetic since this kind of event is the norm.

Startled? Yes! Sympathetic? No; ...no, I don't think so.

I blame the parents for allowing this year in and year out.

I blame the school and all the administrators for letting this kind of circus leave their parking lot.

I blame the driver for being sub-human and giving no thought to the hill, the rate of speed, not using the hand brake, not slowing down, and on and on ad nausea.

I blame these kids for packing into this vehicle like sardines, as if this is some kind of holiday, and they are all probably laughing gayly as the truck careens and sways down the road.

I blame law enforcement for allowing this kind of circus charade on the roads and not doing anything about the obvious.

I blame all Thais for making sorry-assed excuses about "But, what else can we do?" when someone does in fact complain, and then this happens; which gives rise yet again to my adage, "There is no emergency or crisis in Thailand until it happens."

----------------

So; no, I do not feel sympathy, but I do feel startled that this has not happened sooner. I understand that people think that the knee-jerk response to lunacy such as this is some sort of litmus test for human decency, but I don't have the energy to feel guilt anymore when I read about something that was merely waiting to happen.

As a matter of fact, I saw three of these circus shows on the freeway over the last two days. The school kids were literally hanging off the back of the truck by one hand.

It seems odd that school children will protest about the most stupid things, but when it comes to this... nothing! I bet nothing comes of this. No one will protest. No one will will do anything.

Nothing changes here except the population count.

[GentlemanJim]

Dreadful. Condolences to the families concerned.

Just look in the picture at how the boy is going to be transported to hospital....pitiful.

That's what they use for EMF why is it pitiful, O forgot not up to those western standards left behind.

Plenty of full size ambulances available. It is pitiful because of the EMF response systems in some areas, and that is nothing to do with 'western standards'. Just hope you are never in any accident lying on the road and the emergency services come to get you. No checking of your body where you lie, you are often picked up by two people by the hands and feet and stuck on a stretcher board and put in the back of a pick-up, sometimes no stretcher board is available. It is pitiful because of the system they have of paying 'first responders', who have almost zero training to get casualties or bodies to the hospital as quickly as possible.

These 'rescue' guys will race each other to get to the scene of an accident first. So many people in RTA's suffer serious damage AFTER the accident due to appalling emergency response practice. Watch what happens next time you witness an accident. Sticking a young child in the boot of a car where there is no room for any adult to accompany and supervise is not whinging about 'Western Standards'. It may shock you to realise that the entire world is moving on and my comment is nothing to do with 'Western Standards'. This country has the money and the resources to provide good emergency response. All the learning has been done and the information is in the public domain. The reason they dont improve here is that there is no will to improve. Doctors insist on having immediate responsibility for everything in order that they can milk as much money as possible from everyone. I used to train first responders in the UK but I cannot do it here as I am not a Doctor! We used to train the Doctors in the UK as GP's had very little knowledge about first response, or resuscitation or even how to use a defib. The medical council in Thailand will not permit anybody who is not a Doctor to do anything, thereby ensuring that they keep the system as it was 50 years ago. It CAN be changed and it NEEDS to be changed, nothing to do with 'Western standards' and everything to do with modern medical practice. There have been a number of bikers sustaining serious neck fractures here when the ER team that arrives rip their helmets off without any consideration to the damage they will cause. Rant over, the message is I believe it is pitiful, if you don't that's fine, but it is nothing to do with 'western standards' get it?

[fullcave]

Safety belts? Not a chance…...

[JRSoul]

This is the engine can be turned off to retard the vehicle if the brakes fail.

??????????

What he means is that if the engine is shut off on a manual vehicle at least, in an emergency situation (such as real brake failure) there is a significant amount of braking force on the driven wheels due to the compression. Using a low gear and taking your foot off the throttle does essentially the same thing even with the engine running.

For any of the above to have any effect the vehicle must be in a gear. The lower the gear, the greater the effect.

Thank you. Turning the key to off (but not lock) position also stops the small amount of fuel that would normally be entering the engine to keep it at idle revs, either by shutting the fuel solenoid v/v on a diesel, or the ignition on a petrol engine.

[tetleythedog]

As a father of 5 daughters i couldn't imagine trying to cope with the grief. As an ex-fireman it's always so sad for all. As both the F'ING stupid braindead drivers and the condition of their vehicles makes my blood boil. He will tell the police that "it wasn't my fault" , when he should be put inside at the very least. We all see these pick-ups every day, overloaded, belching smoke, driven by <deleted>, and never maintained.

I suppose this topic will not get many reactions. It's business as usual in Thailand.In any other country it would be the main topic in the media.

My sympathy to the victims and their families.

[philw]

I can't say I am sympathetic since this kind of event is the norm.

Startled? Yes! Sympathetic? No; ...no, I don't think so.

I blame the parents for allowing this year in and year out.

I blame the school and all the administrators for letting this kind of circus leave their parking lot.

I blame the driver for being sub-human and giving no thought to the hill, the rate of speed, not using the hand brake, not slowing down, and on and on ad nausea.

I blame these kids for packing into this vehicle like sardines, as if this is some kind of holiday, and they are all probably laughing gayly as the truck careens and sways down the road.

I blame law enforcement for allowing this kind of circus charade on the roads and not doing anything about the obvious.

I blame all Thais for making sorry-assed excuses about "But, what else can we do?" when someone does in fact complain, and then this happens; which gives rise yet again to my adage, "There is no emergency or crisis in Thailand until it happens."

----------------

So; no, I do not feel sympathy, but I do feel startled that this has not happened sooner. I understand that people think that the knee-jerk response to lunacy such as this is some sort of litmus test for human decency, but I don't have the energy to feel guilt anymore when I read about something that was merely waiting to happen.

As a matter of fact, I saw three of these circus shows on the freeway over the last two days. The school kids were literally hanging off the back of the truck by one hand.

It seems odd that school children will protest about the most stupid things, but when it comes to this... nothing! I bet nothing comes of this. No one will protest. No one will will do anything.

Nothing changes here except the population count.

The milk of human kindness and compassion, understanding and empathy personified......

It's also fun to hang off the back of a truck , ever tried it ???

I blame, I blame, I blame , I blame..........

It's not Kansas.

Edited January 8, 2014 by philw

[Pattaya28]

The cold hard fact is "This Is Thailand" and nobody cares.

If anyone cared, the government would address this safety issue, the vehicle owners would address this safety issue, and the kids parents would not allow their beloved kids to travel in these "death-traps".

Is this picture not clear enough ??

[drx13]

When I travel in minivans and buses I'm the only one ever to find any safety belt, cut it free if necessary or unravel it and adjust it,

much to the amusement of the local passengers.

Also when waiting for a songtaew, if one stops which is so laden that the back is nearly dragging on the road and the front wheels barely making contact, I decline, and often the driver gets out and tries to persuade the passengers to squeeze up to make room. I always decline much to his bewilderment.

Edited January 9, 2014 by drx13

[seedy]

Thank you. Turning the key to off (but not lock) position also stops the small amount of fuel that would normally be entering the engine to keep it at idle revs, either by shutting the fuel solenoid v/v on a diesel, or the ignition on a petrol engine.

And with the engine shut off, you loose the power steering. And the power brakes.

The only time you turn off the engine is when you are parked, just before you open the door to get out of the vehicle.

[JRSoul]

Thank you. Turning the key to off (but not lock) position also stops the small amount of fuel that would normally be entering the engine to keep it at idle revs, either by shutting the fuel solenoid v/v on a diesel, or the ignition on a petrol engine.

And with the engine shut off, you loose the power steering. And the power brakes.

The only time you turn off the engine is when you are parked, just before you open the door to get out of the vehicle.

Really? The brakes have already failed, remember, that is the point. But even if they haven't, with the engine still turning over to slow the vehicle, vaccuum assisted brakes will still operate, as will the power steering hydraulic pump. These are not electrical functions, but mechanical, with power supplied by the turning motor whether it is burning fuel or not.

BTW an earlier poster suggested that with the engine at idle not enough compressed air would be supplied so you would lose brakes. This shows a lack of basic understanding of the Westinghouse Air Brake, where the brakes a spring operated and the air supply holds the brakes OFF. Pushing the brake pedal shuts the air supply v/v and dumps the air, allowing the brakes to operate.

[finnomick]

Thank you. Turning the key to off (but not lock) position also stops the small amount of fuel that would normally be entering the engine to keep it at idle revs, either by shutting the fuel solenoid v/v on a diesel, or the ignition on a petrol engine.

And with the engine shut off, you loose the power steering. And the power brakes.

The only time you turn off the engine is when you are parked, just before you open the door to get out of the vehicle.

Really? The brakes have already failed, remember, that is the point. But even if they haven't, with the engine still turning over to slow the vehicle, vaccuum assisted brakes will still operate, as will the power steering hydraulic pump. These are not electrical functions, but mechanical, with power supplied by the turning motor whether it is burning fuel or not.

BTW an earlier poster suggested that with the engine at idle not enough compressed air would be supplied so you would lose brakes. This shows a lack of basic understanding of the Westinghouse Air Brake, where the brakes a spring operated and the air supply holds the brakes OFF. Pushing the brake pedal shuts the air supply v/v and dumps the air, allowing the brakes to operate.

Thankyou JRSoul, you are right and I am wrong. I sit corrected. When the air supply runs out, the brakes come on automatically bringing the vehicle to a stop -- wherever this may be. I didn't know the system was named ' Westinghouse Air Brake System ' so I have learned something new today.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts removed.

[seedy]

When the air supply runs out, the brakes come on automatically bringing the vehicle to a stop -- wherever this may be.

This only happens if you have dual chambered brake pots.

For example the steering axle will only have single chamber brake pots. Then if a complete loss of air pressure occurs, the front wheels will not lock up and you can still steer the vehicle.

In the dual chamber brake pots, air pressure in the Emergency side - identified by a Red glad hand - holds the spring back from applying brakes. When air pressure drops below about 60 psi the brakes will start to apply because this is the threshold of the spring.

On the service side - identified by a Blue glad hand - of the brake pots - the side used for normal operation, no air is present until a brake application is made, this air then turns the S cams which press the brake shoes against the brake drum.

[kurnell]

Its not brake failure. Its moronic driving with minimal enforcement of rules of the road and a complete farce of a driving test. Compounded by the fact that the majority think that putting 30 children in a pick up truck is ok. The fact that the number of children is reported without question speaks volumes.

RIP to the poor victim. Sadly there will be many more.

How true. I have never known of anyone who has had brake failure with their vehicle.

[JRSoul]

When the air supply runs out, the brakes come on automatically bringing the vehicle to a stop -- wherever this may be.

This only happens if you have dual chambered brake pots.

For example the steering axle will only have single chamber brake pots. Then if a complete loss of air pressure occurs, the front wheels will not lock up and you can still steer the vehicle.

In the dual chamber brake pots, air pressure in the Emergency side - identified by a Red glad hand - holds the spring back from applying brakes. When air pressure drops below about 60 psi the brakes will start to apply because this is the threshold of the spring.

On the service side - identified by a Blue glad hand - of the brake pots - the side used for normal operation, no air is present until a brake application is made, this air then turns the S cams which press the brake shoes against the brake drum.

Now I've learned something new. Must admit my knowledge of air brakes was railway related rather then trucks, and came from my father over 50 years ago.

[seedy]

How true. I have never known of anyone who has had brake failure with their vehicle.

And on a pickup truck or a car which has a dual channel hydraulic braking system, you would lose the front brakes, or the rear brakes, never heard of losing both at the same time. This would need two steel brake lines, or two rubber hoses, to fail at the same time.

Better odds at the casino.