Thai Marriage Questions from an American Perspective

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The long-time and I are planning later this year to register as married in Thailand, which has raised a couple of questions.

1. I'd like to have a general planning consulation with a family law attorney in the BKK area who's versed in Thai family law but also understands how it interrelates to U.S. law and benefits, etc. Just to make sure I cover all the bases and such.

Has any American had such a consulation here, and can anyone recommend such a family law attorney who knows what they're doing and you'd give a good recommendation to??? If so, any idea on what the normal rates for such a consulation would be?

2. I was previously married and divorced in the U.S. years ago. And now as I look at the Thai process and going to register at an Amphur office, I can't seem to get a straight answer about one detail.

The U.S. consulate has a "freedom to marry" affidavit and then a secondary "divorced" affidavit for those who have been previously married and divorced. Both would need to be translated into Thai and then certified by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

But when we end up at the Amphur office eventually, will they accept the Consulate/MFA certified "divorce" affidavit as proof that I'm legally divorced and free to marry. Or will the Amphur folks also demand a Thai translation of my actual court divorce judgment from the U.S.? (which is what's suggested on the Consulate's website).

Thanks much for any advice/suggestions.

Edited January 9, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

So... none of the Americans here who have gotten married in Thailand bothered to consult with a family law attorney before doing the deed??? Really???

[villagefarang]

I cant speak for others but I cant remember ever going to a lawyer for anything. By moving here so young, I missed out on becoming embroiled in the litigious nature of life back home. When I finally married at 45, it was for love and companionship, with no other bases to be covered. After many years together, we are still without the need of lawyers, or anyone else, to help us live a happy life.

I would suggest searching out one of the long establish and well known law firms in Bangkok if you are really that concerned. An upperclass Thai friend would be able to point you in the right direction.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I'm not "that concerned" about my future wife and I all...

But, for someone who keeps substantial assets in the U.S. and little here, it's kind of bewildering trying to figure out just how things would operate in a family law context.

Things like:

--In the event of a divorce, for assets held in the U.S., does Thai family law govern those assets or is it the law in my U.S. state of residence? Because the two legal frameworks are likely not the same.

--Are Thai family court judgments enforceable against U.S. assets, or only those held in Thailand?

--Both in Thailand and the U.S., property/assets held by either party prior to marriage are considered separate and individual property even once married.

But what about the "fruits" of those assets earned during the marriage such as dividends, interest, capital gains, and even pension payments received during marriage?

How many folks here know the answers to those kinds of questions and similar ones? And if you don't, shouldn't you as the one responsible for your own assets and financial well-being want to know???

Edited January 11, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[villagefarang]

If you have those kinds of questions then you should find answers to them. Having avoided divorces and children, things are quite simple for me. All my assets are accessible online and my only concern is, to make sure I manage them in such a manner as to not be depleted during my lifetime, and that my wife will be well provided for after I am gone. I think I have both of those bases covered.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Right... those are good objectives... But you mention "having avoided divorces."

Well, that's not something any one person has the power to accomplish, since either party to a marriage can always file for divorce anytime, for any reason -- whether the other party likes it or not.

And if one's formerly loving wife decided to take that step years down the road, where would you be in terms of, as you put it, managing your assets in such a manner as to not have them depleted during your lifetime?

How much of your nest egg would potentially disappear in a divorce? Do you know???

Edited January 11, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[villagefarang]

Having one foot out the door is not the way I choose to live but I am quite confident we can deal with any eventualities.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

It's not having "one foot out the door" as you put it.

It's being informed and understanding the terms of one's financial circumstances and obligations -- even for eventualities that one doesn't ever expect to occur.

I choose to not live with my head in the sand, and to not enter into a legal relationships/obligation without clearly understanding what rules/laws apply and will govern that relationship.

Edited January 11, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[villagefarang]

Don’t know why, but my sandy little world has never resembled the rocky one others plan for and oddly seem to find. Reminds me of that dreaded phenomenon one sometimes sees confounding motorcycle riders, called target fixation.

One of the nice things about life, is that we are all free to make our own choices.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Meanwhile, FWIW, I did find what appears to be the answer to one of the questions I had posed above:

But what about the "fruits" of those [pre-marital] assets earned during the marriage such as dividends, interest, capital gains, and even pension payments received during marriage?

In another thread just today, another member posted links to a law firm's quite good guide on Thai law, with chapters on many of the various major categories such as family law and wills and probate.

The family law chapter is here:

http://www.bia.co.th/033.html

And in it, it includes the following mention: the "fruits" of non-marital (pre-marriage) assets under Thai law are considered marital (community property) assets.

[villagefarang]

Is there a possibility that any of this information you are looking for will keep you from marrying your girlfriend?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

No... not a chance...

But, depending on the answers that I don't as yet know, there's some possibility of a pre-nup... again, depending on the ultimate answers.

I have significant assets... She has far less, by comparison. Going into a marriage, given that disparity, I simply want to be clear on how things would work financially...if we ever were to end up getting divorced here in Thailand.

Edited January 11, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[mesquite]

Why not just leave the marriage in its current state, unregistered?

That works for the current caretaker PM, so why not for you?

Edited January 14, 2014 by mesquite

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The fiance comes from a traditional family, has always had her own professional job and has always been thrifty with money since I've known her -- both hers and mine.

She wants to get married for all the reasons women do, including as a sign of stability in our relationshkip, and I don't begrudge her that. My parents were married for 50+ years before one of them passed away.

I wouldn't mind trying to get somewhat close to that mark...

But I want to go into the marriage being clear on all the financial issues under Thai law. Likewise, I'm not planning to, nor am I expected to by her, going into the upcountry house building or cars buying business.

Partly from the education I've received here on ThaiVisa over the years, we started out with a pretty clear understanding:

My duty is to take her of her as my fiance/future wife. Her duty is to take care of her parents. And we've been pretty good at sticking to that thus far.

Edited January 14, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[FiftyTwo]

The marriage they want is the village one (no paperwork, no legal obligations), not the Amphur office one.

Even PM Yinluck (you can't get much higher than her) hasn't bothered with the Amphur office one.

Don't forget the sin sot goes with the village wedding, but I'm sure that's not why her family want it.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Actually, we're planning the Amphur legal wedding, and NOT doing the home town one.... at my fiancee's suggestion and my agreement.

My fiance's family already knows sin sod is not an American custom, so I'm not doing anything like that. But my fiancee wants to save her own money for something like that in the future years for her parents.

Perhaps you should reconsider what you think you know about everyone else around you.

Edited January 14, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[villagefarang]

I am a fan of the amphur option. We didn’t like the idea of either a Bangkok hotel or village wedding, so dropped into a local amphur and signed on the dotted line. We invited a few friends to dinner at the Erawan and that was it.

I suppose I should mention that after nearly two years together, we got married first and told our families and friends about it later. There are lots of options depending on the dynamics of the relationship and the people involved. I would definitely say, one size does not fit all.

[fishbrando]

TallGuyJohninBKK, I don't have answers to your questions but I wanted to send you kudos for keeping a level head in what must have been a frustrating forum thread for you. It's amazing how much judgment people can mete out without any real answers.

It's not only perfectly reasonable but also very prudent to take steps to protect yourself and your assets before you get married.

[thehelmsman]

TallGuyJohninBKK, I don't have answers to your questions but I wanted to send you kudos for keeping a level head in what must have been a frustrating forum thread for you. It's amazing how much judgment people can mete out without any real answers.

It's not only perfectly reasonable but also very prudent to take steps to protect yourself and your assets before you get married.

I'm also in the same boat. Started making appointments with lawyers in states but got sent on job assignment before any definite info was given.

I'm wanting to take g/f and baby to visit the US. Marriage will make visa easier and she's also throwing hints at marriage. I've told her that I need to have a pre-nup made first. I'm only concerned about real estate owned in the US and future real estate which may get passed down to me from family members. I'm all for providing for my new family but things happen and when and if they do your sweet, sweet wife will quite possibly turn not soo sweet.