First ALSA, then PULSE (or Repulsive), and Now What? Will We Ever Have Good Audio Support For Linux?

[MrGaoMungGawn]

I have never used Apple.

I have used Windows since NT, or even further back, since the beginning of DOS.

But I have never been satisfied with Linux Audio support.

The reason I mention this now, is that I am trying to connect:

a) One pair of larger microlab speakers, and

One Logitech USB headphones, to

c) Opensuse 13.1 64 bit PC

I don't really think it matters much which distribution you are using. It matters more if you are using KDE or GNOME, I imagine.

But, I am using KDE 4.11.3

I got the microlab speakers to work.

Then I got the Logitech headphones to work.

But I have not gotten both to work in the following way:

1. Speakers will play by default

2. Or, headphones will play when USB is plugged in.

This is the way everything works by default in my off-the-shelf Win 8.1 laptop installation.

I did no tweaking of the sound settings.

They just work right on the Win 8.1 OS.

So, I think both ALSA and PULSE are repulsive by comparison.

And GNOME used to use ALSA on the UBUNTU distro, but now has switched to PULSE.

Does anyone have any thoughts about Linux Audio, and which is better.

And, anyone else having trouble just doing something simple like I am trying to do, so that when I want to use SKYPE, i do not get my ears zapped by loud, VERY loud, buzzing!

This is NOT FUN nor FUNNY anymore, friends!

[dharmabm]

Never use pulse , alsa has always worked fine for me. Then again, I don't use gnome or KDE. Maybe you need to simplify your life (and go smoke a joint or take a zanex).

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus SlimKat using Tapatalk

[MrGaoMungGawn]

Never use pulse , alsa has always worked fine for me. Then again, I don't use gnome or KDE. Maybe you need to simplify your life (and go smoke a joint or take a zanex).

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus SlimKat using Tapatalk

Although your answer is rather original, it stops short of actually telling us what you are using if you are not using GNOME or KDE.

I suppose we could guess you are not using x-windows and are just staring at green letters floating by on a black screen.

But seriously, any thoughts why APPLE Windows OS spends more time getting audio half way right?

Or, are you trying to say that anyone should be able to get audio right on a linux pc, given half a brain?

It would be nice though, if anyone might be interested in popularizing the linux desktop for somebody to organize a few standards to live by, and setup the audio by.

It is easy to read how others are doing it, setting up audio, and it really does not seem as if anyone is ecstatic about what they have at this time.

No?

(yes, i agree, never use pulse! but this is not so easy with KDE and gnome getting on the repulsive bandwagon)

Edited January 9, 2014 by MrGaoMungGawn

[MrGaoMungGawn]

I now seem to have both usb headphones and analog speaker output working, but this experiment is still interesting:

For example, Skype sounds terrible, like it is drowning in 2 fathoms of water, when it is used with the installed linux application.

But with the windows application on the same PC, installed on a virtualbox of Windows 7, then it sounds normal.

I think that even Skype is tired of the PULSE audio.

Strange that Skype sounds OK on Windows, but not OK on Linux, on the same PC with all the same hardware. using virtualbox.

[dharmabm]

if you really wanted assistance and weren't just writing for the sake of seeing yourself in print, you should know that at a minimum you need to provide information about your audio chipset.

and by the way i have never had problems with audio output on any of my machines with various distributions, although have had frustrations with built-in mics on several laptops. all ultimately resolvable with a little research.

[dave_boo]

I don't find pulse all that bad...but I have not seen it ever reassign priority to a different audio device. It will happily mute the built in speaker upon detection of a device in an audio jack.

I am on a fully updated openSUSE 12.3 install running LXDE. In order to utilise my FiiO X3 as a USB DAC I need to go to the last tab of the PULSE audio mixer and disable the onboard sound. It will not output to both devices simultaneously.

I agree about Skype; there was a recent update (or it could be a recent kernel) that fubared the notification ting. Not all the time mind you but enough to be annoying. It doesn't affect audio quality in a call though.

I agree with dharmabm though...we need more info. Which kernel, which version of Skype and PULSE audio?

I can roll back to an earlier kernel later and see if that's the issue. If that doesn't fix it I will try an earlier version of Skype. If that doesn't fix it I'll try an earlier version of PULSE audio. Will need some time to figure it out though if I can

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[dharmabm]

smart-ass cocky me just got what i deserved... just went to watch a youtube video and guess what?! my sound isn't working! guess i'll have to reboot for the first time since my last kernel update and pray to someone's god

<edit> phew, all good after a reboot - i would love to know what happened but as long as it works i don't have time or energy to investigate ;>} </edit>

Edited January 10, 2014 by dharmabm

[MrGaoMungGawn]

Regarding some of the information you requested:

(Sorry, I would have posted this earlier, but fell asleep for a few hours, then awoke not a bit refreshed.)

Linux 3.11.6-4-desktop

openSUSE 13.1 (Bottle) (x86_64)

KDE Platform Version 4.11.3

All other info can be gleaned from reading the specs on the MB: Asus

H87M-E

https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/H87ME/#support

Realtek ALC887

And the specs on the CPU perhaps http://ark.intel.com/products/75047/

Although not really pertinent to audio question.

----------

The Skype sound is normal when Skype is opened in Windows 7, which in turn is running on Opensuse 13.1 in virtualbox.

And, the headphones will work, except that if the USB is unplugged and then reconnected, the audio through the headphones is not restored.

Truly, Linux sound is a pleasure to behold.

I suppose it is just a matter of finding the correct settings after much trial and error, and it has always been this way on every install I have done with PULSE or ALSA, and USB headphones, with connected speakers.

Maybe things would be easier with a separate sound card, however I have neither sound card nor GPU, which i do not want.

I have only tried so far with pulse audio.

I tried to remove pulse, but it keeps coming back (maybe I should remove the repository for something?

(Is this a result of a political conflict of interest in the Linux community? I wonder.)

Edited January 10, 2014 by MrGaoMungGawn

[Richard-BKK]

You basically use two audio devices (chipsets) on one computer, the first audio device is the Realtek ALC887 chip mounted on your mainboard, the second audio device is the Logitech USB headphone.

Logitech is not famous for Linux support, actual if you search the internet you will find that Linux support is very low to not existing.

I have a Chinese USB telephone for Skype, which also connects to the USB and it works flawless, when somebody calls me with Skype I hear the ring-tone through the speakers and when I pick-up the phone I hear the audio with my cheap (150 THB) Chinese telephone

When you use Linux as operating system you need to be a bit more careful what accessories you buy for your computer. Famous brand names who advertise “driver-less install” or “MS Windows plug-N-Play” are often not a good sign...

One advice I can give is that you check the USB bus arrangement of your computer, and try to connect your Logitech USB audio device as close as possible to USB port 0 (first USB port). Also make sure that the device is plugged into a USB 2.0 port. Linux scans the USB ports for device a bit different than MS Windows, and therefore you can have very different results by using another USB port.

As example I have an old USB Cannon Lide 20 scanner, which I still use sometimes. On my latest computer based on a Asus Z87M-Plus mainboard the USB scanner works only on two USB ports with one USB port to guarantee that it will always be seen... (by the way the scanner is so old that MS Windows 7 and 8.1 not even support it anymore).

Edited January 10, 2014 by Richard-BKK

[MrGaoMungGawn]

You basically use two audio devices (chipsets) on one computer, the first audio device is the Realtek ALC887 chip mounted on your mainboard, the second audio device is the Logitech USB headphone.

Logitech is not famous for Linux support, actual if you search the internet you will find that Linux support is very low to not existing.

I have a Chinese USB telephone for Skype, which also connects to the USB and it works flawless, when somebody calls me with Skype I hear the ring-tone through the speakers and when I pick-up the phone I hear the audio with my cheap (150 THB) Chinese telephone

When you use Linux as operating system you need to be a bit more careful what accessories you buy for your computer. Famous brand names who advertise “driver-less install” or “MS Windows plug-N-Play” are often not a good sign...

One advice I can give is that you check the USB bus arrangement of your computer, and try to connect your Logitech USB audio device as close as possible to USB port 0 (first USB port). Also make sure that the device is plugged into a USB 2.0 port. Linux scans the USB ports for device a bit different than MS Windows, and therefore you can have very different results by using another USB port.

As example I have an old USB Cannon Lide 20 scanner, which I still use sometimes. On my latest computer based on a Asus Z87M-Plus mainboard the USB scanner works only on two USB ports with one USB port to guarantee that it will always be seen... (by the way the scanner is so old that MS Windows 7 and 8.1 not even support it anymore).

Thanks a lot regarding your thought about the Chinese USB Skype phone, which I really want to try!

And, yes you are right about Logitech headphones USB, and the fact that they never want to talk about linux when you call the support engineers.

I have used Logitech for the past 5 years because i just really like their cheap headphones which are durable and comfortable and perform well, with adjustable volume, and a long warranty period with fast service.

I was able to get them working with opensuse 12.x

I realize that you need to be careful when choosing hardware,

However, I have found over the years that the contributors seem to do a very good job providing drivers, even better than on Windows OS.

In this case, I have basically three devices, (not just 2), I have analog INTEL, and HDMI INTEL, and Logitech devices to choose from.

I chose analog and Logitech devices.

Skype on Windows 7 works fine, and I am wondering if because Opensuse 13.1 has just been released, there may still be needed some work on the Skype application for Linux, or if Opensuse needs updating here.

I WILL CHECK WHICH USB PORT is 2.0 , Good Point! Tks.

(During the past 3 days, the Opensuse Website Forumsite has been Hacked, and thus shut down awaiting a solution to stolen passwords. So, I am also waiting to add some files that might help.)

Also, I will check to see if a bios update might be available.

These days, multimedia is so crucial to the use of almost any computers, that Linux, I think, needs to concentrate heavily on making improvements to its installation process here. Or, I could be wrong about this.

I just know that I do not need to spend as much time when installing Windows, to get the audio working.

Thank you for your help!

Edited January 10, 2014 by MrGaoMungGawn

[Richard-BKK]

It's true on a MS Windows computer you would probably not spent that much time setting up a Audio device that is MS Windows Certified.

The problem with MS Windows starts when you want to do something what is different or even opposite what Microsoft Plug-N-Play wants you to do.

With any new operating system, including the once from Microsoft, you always have a few annoying things that escaped beta-testers. The problems you have could be one of them, it has all the elements of something what could escape beta-testers... (it works but not completely as it should)...

When Fedora 20 was released I had some problems with Oracle/Sun Java Software Development Kit, Eclipse and a Google Talk plugin for my browser... The problem was when the Google Talk plugin was installed Java applications crashed directly after started... This problem also escaped beta-testers, and even today it's not 100% fixed, still there's a work-a-round...

[dharmabm]

just a thought, have you tried de-selecting 'let skype control my audio' in the skype settings? i have always found this to work better when you manually control you own volumes.

[JSixpack]

I never have good luck w/ Pulse. I remove it and just use ALSA.

In the Skype audio settings, select the correct device. One problem I always have is that Skype may not remember between computer reboots/suspensions which device it's supposed to use. So then it has to be reset--an annoyance. M'soft doesn't give Linux Skype the same love it gives Windows Skype.

[MrGaoMungGawn]

OK,

That was interesting.

I just updated the bios on this computer, which I had said I would try, and now I lost the speakers, but the headphones work for music playback.

This may be a good sign, since this might signify that the new update to the bios did change some sound related files, and that now I may have more luck with getting everything working.

And JSP, I tried removing Pulse at first, but for some reason it came back after I rebooted.

I think one of the repositories must have it as a requirement for some of the applications, maybe.

[MrGaoMungGawn]

just a thought, have you tried de-selecting 'let skype control my audio' in the skype settings? i have always found this to work better when you manually control you own volumes.

YES!, of course you really need to do this at the start, because Skype cannot control pulse, it states.

And you need to go to the pulse controls on the KDE desktop, and use the audio "manager" settings there.

[dharmabm]

In my experience it is VERY difficult to remove pulse once it is installed, one of the many reasons I stopped using any full DE many years ago

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus SlimKat using Tapatalk

[MrGaoMungGawn]

The other thing I was thinking, besides how complicated it seems to remove pulse, is that there must be in the linux community among contributors and developers an unhelpful feeling of snobbery directed against people who use multimedia together with computers. Maybe this is a carry over from the days when these people spent their time almost exclusively with servers, networking, and research related tasks. Maybe they have long felt that multimedia and computers is just an oddity, a toy for the ungifted users who don't have interest in just the code for important tasks.

But this attitude just will not fly any longer. And linux community members must work together in a more efficient way to solve things like easy installation of audio, and easy changes to audio, because the average user now routinely wants to plug and unplug an ever increasing number of audio and video devices.

Maybe companies like Logitech and Microsoft Skype and Adobe Acrobat need to treat the linux community with the respect it does deserve.

[dave_boo]

The other thing I was thinking, besides how complicated it seems to remove pulse, is that there must be in the linux community among contributors and developers an unhelpful feeling of snobbery directed against people who use multimedia together with computers. Maybe this is a carry over from the days when these people spent their time almost exclusively with servers, networking, and research related tasks. Maybe they have long felt that multimedia and computers is just an oddity, a toy for the ungifted users who don't have interest in just the code for important tasks.

But this attitude just will not fly any longer. And linux community members must work together in a more efficient way to solve things like easy installation of audio, and easy changes to audio, because the average user now routinely wants to plug and unplug an ever increasing number of audio and video devices.

Maybe companies like Logitech and Microsoft Skype and Adobe Acrobat need to treat the linux community with the respect it does deserve.

May I ask if you bought your copy(ies) of Linux? Have you contributed anything back to the community?

It does astound me that developers over the years have busted their asses putting out a project that is used around the world; perhaps more than any other project (there was some 814000000 Android devices sold last year; add in the set tops, embedded devices, servers, etc. and you are looking at a truly staggering number). The fact that Mr. Stallman started the F/OSS movement and the Linux team built on their work to provide an operating system this widely used while overcoming a lot of roadblocks should make one think. The only thing that those developers HAVE to do is give back to the community if they use GNU/GPL software.

If one is not purchasing the software, than what reason do they have to assume they can direct these developer's energies? Would they allow me to come over to their house and stay rent free and then DEMAND that they rearrange the floor plan to accommodate me?

If one is ungifted enough that they are not able to code in what they think is relevant, than they have a couple of options. They can submit a request to have those options included. They can fund a team of developers to provide those options. They can try to find another free (as in beer) operating system that has their desired options. They can take their money and purchase an operating system that has the options as they want.

I am sorry if this offends you, but the sense of entitlement is breathtaking. The Linux F/OSS community owes you nothing. They do not have to fast track audio development because you think it's important.

The F/OSS community has often been described as communist...where everybody contributes to their abilities and everyone benefits to their needs. The Windows/OSX is a capitalistic society. You want a banana 'republic' where you are the tinpot dictator that receives from everybody and doesn't give back. Good luck with that.

[Richard-BKK]

Actually, Linux with its open structure is one of the best platforms for multimedia for instance several major movie studios use Linux to create special effects and edit movies (think Star Wars, Forrest Gump, Jurassic Park, Terminator 2, Who Framed Roger Rabbit, and many more... in a relative short time special effects developed with the help of software running on the open source Linux platform have received more than 14 Academy Awards)

I always shake my head if people compare Linux with MS Windows, they compare MS Office 2013 with LibreOffice and just skip the point that they paid noting for Libreoffice. Same for multi media, people buy un-certified computer hardware which in the specs only specify MS-Windows compatible (Asus normally is happy to specify if a mainboard is also certified to run Linux). Than they install Linux and complain it does work 100%...

My office computer is build with a Asus Z87M-Plus mainboard and a Intel i5-4670K processor, runs Fedora 20 x86_64 Gnome, and I have no problems with Skype and my USB telephone even when I play background music, with the audio on the mainboard, will I'm using Skype. It works even so good that I can regulate the volume from the music with the volume buttons on my Microsoft Keyboard 600 and if I want to adjust the volume of Skype I can use the volume button on my USB Skype Phone...

[MrGaoMungGawn]

The other thing I was thinking, besides how complicated it seems to remove pulse, is that there must be in the linux community among contributors and developers an unhelpful feeling of snobbery directed against people who use multimedia together with computers. Maybe this is a carry over from the days when these people spent their time almost exclusively with servers, networking, and research related tasks. Maybe they have long felt that multimedia and computers is just an oddity, a toy for the ungifted users who don't have interest in just the code for important tasks.

But this attitude just will not fly any longer. And linux community members must work together in a more efficient way to solve things like easy installation of audio, and easy changes to audio, because the average user now routinely wants to plug and unplug an ever increasing number of audio and video devices.

Maybe companies like Logitech and Microsoft Skype and Adobe Acrobat need to treat the linux community with the respect it does deserve.

May I ask if you bought your copy(ies) of Linux? Have you contributed anything back to the community?

It does astound me that developers over the years have busted their asses putting out a project that is used around the world; perhaps more than any other project (there was some 814000000 Android devices sold last year; add in the set tops, embedded devices, servers, etc. and you are looking at a truly staggering number). The fact that Mr. Stallman started the F/OSS movement and the Linux team built on their work to provide an operating system this widely used while overcoming a lot of roadblocks should make one think. The only thing that those developers HAVE to do is give back to the community if they use GNU/GPL software.

If one is not purchasing the software, than what reason do they have to assume they can direct these developer's energies? Would they allow me to come over to their house and stay rent free and then DEMAND that they rearrange the floor plan to accommodate me?

If one is ungifted enough that they are not able to code in what they think is relevant, than they have a couple of options. They can submit a request to have those options included. They can fund a team of developers to provide those options. They can try to find another free (as in beer) operating system that has their desired options. They can take their money and purchase an operating system that has the options as they want.

I am sorry if this offends you, but the sense of entitlement is breathtaking. The Linux F/OSS community owes you nothing. They do not have to fast track audio development because you think it's important.

The F/OSS community has often been described as communist...where everybody contributes to their abilities and everyone benefits to their needs. The Windows/OSX is a capitalistic society. You want a banana 'republic' where you are the tinpot dictator that receives from everybody and doesn't give back. Good luck with that.

We are all in this boat callled life, together.

This is what is so good about linux, and opensource,

It allows us all to contribute and criticize the results of these contributions.

Sort of like the Scientific Method.

We shoudl not be overly concerned with who contributes how much, and how wealthy they might be.

No one is keeping track, or shouldn't be.

If you don't want to contribute, then don't.

[dave_boo]

The other thing I was thinking, besides how complicated it seems to remove pulse, is that there must be in the linux community among contributors and developers an unhelpful feeling of snobbery directed against people who use multimedia together with computers. Maybe this is a carry over from the days when these people spent their time almost exclusively with servers, networking, and research related tasks. Maybe they have long felt that multimedia and computers is just an oddity, a toy for the ungifted users who don't have interest in just the code for important tasks.

But this attitude just will not fly any longer. And linux community members must work together in a more efficient way to solve things like easy installation of audio, and easy changes to audio, because the average user now routinely wants to plug and unplug an ever increasing number of audio and video devices.

Maybe companies like Logitech and Microsoft Skype and Adobe Acrobat need to treat the linux community with the respect it does deserve.

May I ask if you bought your copy(ies) of Linux? Have you contributed anything back to the community?

It does astound me that developers over the years have busted their asses putting out a project that is used around the world; perhaps more than any other project (there was some 814000000 Android devices sold last year; add in the set tops, embedded devices, servers, etc. and you are looking at a truly staggering number). The fact that Mr. Stallman started the F/OSS movement and the Linux team built on their work to provide an operating system this widely used while overcoming a lot of roadblocks should make one think. The only thing that those developers HAVE to do is give back to the community if they use GNU/GPL software.

If one is not purchasing the software, than what reason do they have to assume they can direct these developer's energies? Would they allow me to come over to their house and stay rent free and then DEMAND that they rearrange the floor plan to accommodate me?

If one is ungifted enough that they are not able to code in what they think is relevant, than they have a couple of options. They can submit a request to have those options included. They can fund a team of developers to provide those options. They can try to find another free (as in beer) operating system that has their desired options. They can take their money and purchase an operating system that has the options as they want.

I am sorry if this offends you, but the sense of entitlement is breathtaking. The Linux F/OSS community owes you nothing. They do not have to fast track audio development because you think it's important.

The F/OSS community has often been described as communist...where everybody contributes to their abilities and everyone benefits to their needs. The Windows/OSX is a capitalistic society. You want a banana 'republic' where you are the tinpot dictator that receives from everybody and doesn't give back. Good luck with that.

We are all in this boat callled life, together.

This is what is so good about linux, and opensource,

It allows us all to contribute and criticize the results of these contributions.

Sort of like the Scientific Method.

We shoudl not be overly concerned with who contributes how much, and how wealthy they might be.

No one is keeping track, or shouldn't be.

If you don't want to contribute, then don't.

Please tell what you have contributed to the F/OSS community.

If the answer is nothing than you can not claim to be part of it...but rather a leach. A school of fish is a community. Those that are not the best are the ones eaten and allow those with better attributes to survive and increase the viability of the community.

Your points are valid...if you a contributing. If not you are no better than a creationist trying to change the science world to fit their ideas of "The Way Things Are".

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app