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Posted

>Wow you really think the westerner Governments are stupid. Do you figure you and a handful of others are the only ones who are >able to see through this smoke screen?

It's the citizenry (and the people who post here on TV, partisans for one side or another) who don't get it.

>Name me one country in the west that is Democratic.

Constitutional democracies are by definition a form of democracy.

>I will help you by pointing out that the United States is a Republic not a Democracy.

I'm sadly aware of this. The USA was explicitly intended *not* to be a democracy, but a republic. Unfortunately, it's devolved into a mere democracy (the War Between the States was a big step along that path; the New Deal and then the Second World War were gigantic leaps along that path), and is on the path to tyranny, as has been the case with every other democracy in history, starting with Athens.

>IIn a Democracy Gore would have been President.

Irrelevant. I don't need you to lecture me on the form and history of the US government. I know quite a bit more about it than you do.

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Posted

400,000....so we can expect about 10% of that.

Agree. Last time the spin doctors tried to turn the real number ( 75000 or so) into 6 million...even producing some seriously delusional/deceitful youtube material to try to con the rest of the world. AP, AFP, reuters, BBC, ABC, SBS, Deutche Welle, CNN, not fooled. Not even Fox. Maybe Michael Yon believes it

I would be interested in where you got your 75,000 or so figure. I have heard lot's of different figures.

You mentioned BBC, CNN and FOX Those are three news sources with a pretty dubious reporting record on Thailand. I am not sure they even have reporters here or if they do they are sitting in a bar discussing it. FOX is just plain a joke for open minded facts. More of a advertisement for the books the various announcers have written.

It is one step up from Animation. In fact Animation might be better.

The others I have not seen and have no idea of their accuracy in reporting facts. Not sure but doesn't Reuters get most of their information on line. Do they have reporters all over the world on the scene.

I find it interesting that all sources come out with figures that are hard to compile with the various demonstration points but never with the one main point that iss 24 hours a day day after day. Especially at night. Why do they ignore that and just choose sensationalism times. Seems to me they are more interested in selling their story than reporting facts.

In short are any of therm on the scene reporting it? Or just sitting around a bar?

So in your opinion, Suthep is more credible than BBC and CNN?

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Posted

Sorry to disappoint you but the world does not care in the slightest about a small insignificant country in Asia nor in who runs it.

you need to go back to school and read up about America/Vietnam and what America did to Cambodia and Laos because of the little insignificant country called Vietnam.. How about Korea? Another insignificant country in Asia? What a retard you are mush

Yes, I gotta weigh in on the side of reality: The world does not care in the slightest what's happening in LOS. It's a circus, a headline, an embarrassment - at best a diversion from genuine conflicts unfolding in Syria, Egypt, Sudan or CAR.

If anything, the world is only shocked at the stark contrast between the maturity, growth and dignity of Singapore's civic engagement and democracy since independence - the resource-less den of thieves jilted by Malaysia and faced with having to meld three disparate and genuinely conflicting cultures - and the decline in Thailand's civic engagement from the majestic and promising days of the October 14 Uprising, Sanya Dharmasakti, and the sacrifices of the '76 TU Massacre, when privileged activists genuinely cared for and sought to engage the disenfranchised and down-trodden.

Raising Viet Nam in this context is tacky. Vietnamese lost their lives fighting for independence. Americans in service of their government. The world cared because, regardless of side, unalienable principles were at stake. Viet Nam was a different time, a different principle, a different place.

They mattered.

  • Like 2
Posted (edited)

- I will stop when Yingluck resigns.

I don't think he said that. I clearly remember him saying that her resignation was entirely irrelevant, and that the protest would continue if it occurred.
Not sure about him saying anything about stopping after the amnesty bill was abandoned, but to be fair, they didn't abandon it - it was rejected by the Senate. I'm not surprised that the protest morphed from there into an anti-corruption theme, it was a pretty outrageous piece of legislation.
In terms of the 'it will all end on xyz', it is daft of him to claim, this, but demonstrates a lack of clairvoyant talent rather than deception. You can't call someone a liar for an incorrect prediction.
Edited by rwdrwdrwd
Posted

Does anyone control the "mob" completely ?

if a rumor started that "someone" was landing at the the airport there would be a swarm of Pick up trucks would be heading there to stop "someones" flight from landing ,

no one will know if the airport will stay open , Suthep can say what he wants , but he may have created a monster that no one can control ,

Plus Suthep loves to hear himself talk , so I wonder how much he believes and how much he says because that will keep the mob happy !

Posted

Sorry to disappoint you but the world does not care in the slightest about a small insignificant country in Asia nor in who runs it.

you need to go back to school and read up about America/Vietnam and what America did to Cambodia and Laos because of the little insignificant country called Vietnam.. How about Korea? Another insignificant country in Asia? What a retard you are mush

Yes, I gotta weigh in on the side of reality: The world does not care in the slightest what's happening in LOS. It's a circus, a headline, an embarrassment - at best a diversion from genuine conflicts unfolding in Syria, Egypt, Sudan or CAR.

If anything, the world is only shocked at the stark contrast between the maturity, growth and dignity of Singapore's civic engagement and democracy since independence - the resource-less den of thieves jilted by Malaysia and faced with having to meld three disparate and genuinely conflicting cultures - and the decline in Thailand's civic engagement from the majestic and promising days of the October 14 Uprising, Sanya Dharmasakti, and the sacrifices of the '76 TU Massacre, when privileged activists genuinely cared for and sought to engage the disenfranchised and down-trodden.

Raising Viet Nam in this context is tacky. Vietnamese lost their lives fighting for independence. Americans in service of their government. The world cared because, regardless of side, unalienable principles were at stake. Viet Nam was a different time, a different principle, a different place.

They mattered.

Zao, I'm not saying those people that lost their lives were in any way insignificant, far from it. How about the people in Bangkok who have lost their lives because of these protests and the ones that will over the next days and months? Are they less significant because they're not fighting for independance? Some might say they were/are fighting for independance. Vietnam was a different time and so is now. Do you think America cared about Vietnam's independence back then? They got iinvolved because of the 'C' word - communism. Their excuse to get involed today is the 'T' word, especially if there's oil involved of course.

I'm curious too about the wording you used when you say the conflicts of Syria, Egypt, Sudan or CAR are "genuine". To the fools in Bangkok what they are doing is genuine, to them at least. Does a conflict have involve Muslims to be genuine in your mind or something? The reasoning for what happened in Egypt is almost identical to the situation in Thailand. Government ousted by the publice and another government installed. People don't like the new government and take to the streets again to get the new one replaced. Military coup, another government installed. Sound familiar yet? How is that more genuine than what's happening in BKK?

Posted

A lot of people have thrown the word "fascist" around lately. It seems to me that opposing the return of a rich, corrupt ex-PM through shady parliamentary procedures and nepotism does not necessarily make you a "fascist".

I suggest that those labeling the current anti-government protest movement as "fascist" have a close look at the tactics and beliefs of the governing party and its red shirt supporters.

Suthep may be calling for his supporters to "shut down" Bangkok. At least he is not calling for them to "BURN down" Bangkok like the red shirt leader did a few years ago.

I am not calling Suthep a fascist demagogue for opposing the corrupt PTP and the Shin Clan. I am calling him a fascist demagogue for calling for an UNelected committee of "good people" (what a fkkn joke) who are to dictate what is what, disrespecting the votes of the millions who were (maybe fooled) into voting for the PTP.

Suthep is a hypocrite. He is corrupt himself.

The repeated lie that all votes were bought (21mil votes bought? Really?) has been dismissed as absurd many times by independent investigations.

And no, I am not going to bother providing the links to such reports. Find them yourselves, you lazy bums.

Do people still think that the red shirts and the PTP voters don't know that the PTP and the Shin Clan and their cronies are not corrupt?

They voted for them because the PTP was the only party that did anything at all for the poor.

Suthep and his gang of brown shirts are the proxies of the traditional elite who view the Northerners and Isaan people with utter contempt, considering them no more than sub-human serfs. The complaint that all Isaan people are uneducated and stupid is patently false. Look at the economic growth in Isaan.

If the Isaan people are uneducated, whose fault is this? All previous governments who crushed all inquisitiveness and proper teaching. Why? Because we cannot have a informed and critical working class who is unwilling to bow and scrape to us, the white, rich and powerful.

That is why Suthep and his gang are fascist pigs...

Get it now?

No, I don't get it. I think you and many others throw the word "fascist" around loosely without considering the situation with any perspective. It would be just as easy to call the red shirt movement "fascist". I'm not a supporter of Suthep's tactics and I think his idea of an appointed people's council is ridiculous, but there have been serious abuses of power by the PTP and the Shinawatra clan, and I'm glad there are at least some people in Thailand with the guts to speak out against it.

If you did not get what I said in my explanation, then you did not read it well. And please do not group me with other people.

I do not loosely throw the word fascist around. I did not compare him to Hitler or Mussolini.

I call Suthep a fascist for his arrogance of calling himself his dictatorship committee and his supporters the "good people". Thereby looking down on PTP voters.

Sure, someone needs to stand up to the serious abuses of power by the PTP and the Shinawatra clan. I believe I did mention that.

However, I believe Suthep is not the right man and neither is his language correct. Even his former party associates have distanced themselves from him and his group. On the other hand, by using Suthep as a front man who spouts demagoguery and absurd accusations, his shady backers might have a sneaky plan up their sleeve should he win through. Like kicking his ass to the curb once their objective has been achieved. Which is: Maintain the power of the richest families and make sure they are above the law. In my book, that is fascism.

If he is so sure of his cause and the supposed massive support, form a party and contest the election. Ah, but therein lies the snag, the old style society is on the way out and nobody else wants to go backwards.

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Posted (edited)

Quote: "If we can do this, I guarantee you, we will win fair and clean. And the world will record this". last week he didn't care what the World thought, I guess now he understand's the World thinks he's a mental case?

Yes, the world considers him an egomaniacal fascist. Power without the vote, is a scary prospect to a lot of us, who are used to at least a semblance of democracy. Thankfully, he exhibits the good sense to leave the airports alone. As far as I am concerned the airports, ministries, transport system, main boulevards, and highways are the sacred cows. Once you touch them, you are subject to the law, and you have gone from being a peaceful demonstrator to an anarchist. If the govt. moved in and starting arresting, and jailing the protestors once this happened, and imposing massive fines on the families, the protests would break up overnight, and everyone who thought they were out for a big party, would just go home.

Sorry to disappoint you but the world does not care in the slightest about a small insignificant country in Asia nor in who runs it.

you need to go back to school and read up about America/Vietnam and what America did to Cambodia and Laos because of the little insignificant country called Vietnam.. How about Korea? Another insignificant country in Asia? What a retard you are mush

Do you really think I am a retard?

Strangely enough while the Vietnam war was going on I was in the British military based in Singapore from 1968 to 1971. Where were you at that time?

I did have a fair idea then and a better idea now what happened in Laos and Cambodia where the North Vietnamese and the Viet Cong were using "neutral" countries to ship men and materials to South Vietnam.

Do you think that the Americans will do it all over again over a small insignificant country called Thailand that 95% of the people in the world have never heard of nor even care about?

Try reading up on Cambodia and the results of a civil was there and ask if it is possible in Thailand.

Edited by billd766
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Posted

I'm curious too about the wording you used when you say the conflicts of Syria, Egypt, Sudan or CAR are "genuine". To the fools in Bangkok what they are doing is genuine, to them at least. Does a conflict have involve Muslims to be genuine in your mind or something? The reasoning for what happened in Egypt is almost identical to the situation in Thailand. Government ousted by the publice and another government installed. People don't like the new government and take to the streets again to get the new one replaced. Military coup, another government installed. Sound familiar yet? How is that more genuine than what's happening in BKK?

The world cares nothing for what's happening in LOS today. The West doesn't care. Thailand's neighbors don't care. Most Thai's don't care. It's a circus, a headline, an embarrassment. It's career politicians fighting over the spoils of office, whipping mobs into a frenzy with slogans and graft, and knowingly sending impressionable youths to their deaths.

Thailand today is a disgrace.

I might agree with you. Egypt is similar to Thailand - the Thailand of 1973/76. Back then, a movement of Thailand's privileged, galvanized largely by students, removed a military dictatorship and returned the principles of constitutional democracy to Thailand. The era featured world-class leaders - Pridi Banomyong, Sanya Dharmasakti, to name but two. Protest leaders reached out to the poor. Thailand's beloved opened the gates of the Chitralada Palace to students who were being gunned down in the streets by the army.

Thailand stood proud among its neighbors as one who broke free of its shackles. A leader.

The Thailand of 1973/76 offered the world the hope of a beacon of democracy, tolerance, and enlightenment in Asia, who would lead the region forward. They deserved this reputation. Not a single country in the world views the Thailand of today as a leader.

When finally in 1976, after several failed attempts, the military henchman succeeded to return and grab power, they slaughtered upwards of a hundred protestors in the streets. Unarmed students on TU's campus held up their hands and pleaded for the shooting to stop. They were gunned down. Student nurses jumped into the Chao Praya to escape. They were picked off by Navy boats as they swam.

The protestors of that day were heroes. They sacrificed for real principles. They sacrificed for all Thai's. They laid the foundation for the 1992/97 People's Constitution that would bring Suthep to a position of privilege and power.

The politicians of today are indulgent morons. This is what the world thinks of Thailand today. It deserves the reputation.

The protests of today are no more genuine, worthy of attention, or meaningful to civic engagement than the gangs of Thailand's vocational school children taking to the streets over inter-school and girl rivalry. Just as each school year brings another round of meaningless student violence, each election brings another round of moronic buffoons.

Suthep is frothing a fraction of Thais from a handful of provinces into a national hissy fit over what? The spoils of office. You know it. We know it. Thai's know it. Hardly a thing to be proud of.

Suthep was able to first ascend to national politics by the early (1991) draft of the People's Constitution, the very democracy he's now whining about. The problem was that a couple years later, as Minister of Transport and Communications, he turned on his friends in the Chuan Leekpai government and brought it down. Why? So Suthep could avoid prosecution for his crimes in the illegal land deals and co-op embezzlement in Surat Thani.

Well, who did Suthep's buddy Chuan then lose out to in 2001? Thaksin, of course, 283 seats to 128. Why? Because the Chuan governments were known to be rife with corruption, notably Suthep's. Corruption is far from new to Thai politics. You know this well.

The only thing the protestors today are protesting is the spoils of office. And for this, they will knowingly send youths to their deaths in the streets. Disgraceful.

I enjoyed your take on things but I have to disagree with your lasty sentence. The protesters don't realsie they are protesting for the spoils of office, they think an dbeleive they are protesting in the name of democracy, anti-corruption bla blah... And they (by protesters I include the average normal Thai persons) are the ones who will ulimately lose out with loss of incomes etc

Posted

They won't shut down the airports... I believe they also said they won't shut down the Skytrain...

"7.55pm, the People's Democratic Reform Committee (PDRC)'s guards have taken control of the Pathumwan Intersection.

They set up barricade on the roads and closed off the skywalk, blocking entry to BTS station"

The first brick in the wall...

Posted

They won't shut down the airports... I believe they also said they won't shut down the Skytrain... "7.55pm, the People's Democratic Reform Committee (PDRC)'s guards have taken control of the Pathumwan Intersection. They set up barricade on the roads and closed off the skywalk, blocking entry to BTS station" The first brick in the wall...

Quite.

They also said they would leave 1 lane open each way and let buses pass .....

As they say, Truth is the first casualty, and all's fair in L and war.

If the Govt continues to employ the Softly-Softly approach, it will embolden the PDRC. Combined with increasing frustration, the PDRC will expand blockages to more than 7 intersections.

If they still don't get their way, a "renegade" faction of PDRC might make a visit to the airport(s) eventually.

Posted (edited)

A lot of people have thrown the word "fascist" around lately. It seems to me that opposing the return of a rich, corrupt ex-PM through shady parliamentary procedures and nepotism does not necessarily make you a "fascist".

I suggest that those labeling the current anti-government protest movement as "fascist" have a close look at the tactics and beliefs of the governing party and its red shirt supporters.

Suthep may be calling for his supporters to "shut down" Bangkok. At least he is not calling for them to "BURN down" Bangkok like the red shirt leader did a few years ago.

Well obviously Suthep is not calling for people to burn down Bangkok. He or his super rich friends/colleagues own huge swathes of Bangkok land and property. Why would they want to burn down their trillions of investments?

And going on from that, they don't even need to have this current "occupy Bangkok" movement. They already occupy it.

Edited by tilac2
Posted

400,000....so we can expect about 10% of that.

Agree. Last time the spin doctors tried to turn the real number ( 75000 or so) into 6 million...even producing some seriously delusional/deceitful youtube material to try to con the rest of the world. AP, AFP, reuters, BBC, ABC, SBS, Deutche Welle, CNN, not fooled. Not even Fox. Maybe Michael Yon believes it

I would be interested in where you got your 75,000 or so figure. I have heard lot's of different figures.

You mentioned BBC, CNN and FOX Those are three news sources with a pretty dubious reporting record on Thailand. I am not sure they even have reporters here or if they do they are sitting in a bar discussing it. FOX is just plain a joke for open minded facts. More of a advertisement for the books the various announcers have written.

It is one step up from Animation. In fact Animation might be better.

The others I have not seen and have no idea of their accuracy in reporting facts. Not sure but doesn't Reuters get most of their information on line. Do they have reporters all over the world on the scene.

I find it interesting that all sources come out with figures that are hard to compile with the various demonstration points but never with the one main point that iss 24 hours a day day after day. Especially at night. Why do they ignore that and just choose sensationalism times. Seems to me they are more interested in selling their story than reporting facts.

In short are any of therm on the scene reporting it? Or just sitting around a bar?

I'd agree that the 75,000 figure is probably a bit low, but as far as I know no-one did a statistical analysis from aerial photos (as well as other sources) so we really don't know. Maybe low hundreds of thousands could be nearer the mark?

As for your BBC, CNN, Reuters and FOX, if I were you I'd get some knowledge before making such wild claims about their unreliability. Several others on TV make similar claims.

What do you mean "dubious"?

I can only answer for BBC and Reuters but these are thoroughly professional organisations. e.g. Reuters employs thousands of correspondents throught the world. If all they did was hang around in bars or purloin existing online material I have no doubt they'd be sacked. For every journalist employed there are dozens trying to get in the door.

Fox is indeed dubious because of its known right-wing agenda.

Posted

400,000....so we can expect about 10% of that.

Agree. Last time the spin doctors tried to turn the real number ( 75000 or so) into 6 million...even producing some seriously delusional/deceitful youtube material to try to con the rest of the world. AP, AFP, reuters, BBC, ABC, SBS, Deutche Welle, CNN, not fooled. Not even Fox. Maybe Michael Yon believes it

Our great and dear leader, Secretary General of the "People" Council never ever claim 6 million people.

The number of Bangkok people turn up was only 5.8 millions.

And that is just on the street.

In theory, only 10% supporters came to any protesters.

90% of the silence power are occupied with something else.

I really hope that "your" great and dear leader gets arrested tomorrow. I also think you numbers are grabbed from a Suthep followers site... the reality is much different ......

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Posted

Oh <deleted>!

I really, really need to get back to Blighty this month. Don't much want to, have to.

Can't take the bus.

Can't take the train.

Can't take the aeroplane.

Slow boat to China?

Posted

Quote: "If we can do this, I guarantee you, we will win fair and clean. And the world will record this". last week he didn't care what the World thought, I guess now he understand's the World thinks he's a mental case?

Yes, the world considers him an egomaniacal fascist. Power without the vote, is a scary prospect to a lot of us, who are used to at least a semblance of democracy. Thankfully, he exhibits the good sense to leave the airports alone. As far as I am concerned the airports, ministries, transport system, main boulevards, and highways are the sacred cows. Once you touch them, you are subject to the law, and you have gone from being a peaceful demonstrator to an anarchist. If the govt. moved in and starting arresting, and jailing the protestors once this happened, and imposing massive fines on the families, the protests would break up overnight, and everyone who thought they were out for a big party, would just go home.

Sorry to disappoint you but the world does not care in the slightest about a small insignificant country in Asia nor in who runs it.

You could not possibly be more wrong. The world is very, very concerned indeed. Thailand is the 2nd largest economy in Asia, and a major base for Japanese production, as well as a major exporter of several product classifications. If you think this country is irrelevant, I suggest you do some research. You might be surprised.

Posted

Yes, the world considers him an egomaniacal fascist. Power without the vote, is a scary prospect to a lot of us, who are used to at least a semblance of democracy. Thankfully, he exhibits the good sense to leave the airports alone. As far as I am concerned the airports, ministries, transport system, main boulevards, and highways are the sacred cows. Once you touch them, you are subject to the law, and you have gone from being a peaceful demonstrator to an anarchist. If the govt. moved in and starting arresting, and jailing the protestors once this happened, and imposing massive fines on the families, the protests would break up overnight, and everyone who thought they were out for a big party, would just go home.

Sorry to disappoint you but the world does not care in the slightest about a small insignificant country in Asia nor in who runs it.

You could not possibly be more wrong. The world is very, very concerned indeed. Thailand is the 2nd largest economy in Asia, and a major base for Japanese production, as well as a major exporter of several product classifications. If you think this country is irrelevant, I suggest you do some research. You might be surprised.

???????

Posted

Yes, the world considers him an egomaniacal fascist. Power without the vote, is a scary prospect to a lot of us, who are used to at least a semblance of democracy. Thankfully, he exhibits the good sense to leave the airports alone. As far as I am concerned the airports, ministries, transport system, main boulevards, and highways are the sacred cows. Once you touch them, you are subject to the law, and you have gone from being a peaceful demonstrator to an anarchist. If the govt. moved in and starting arresting, and jailing the protestors once this happened, and imposing massive fines on the families, the protests would break up overnight, and everyone who thought they were out for a big party, would just go home.

Sorry to disappoint you but the world does not care in the slightest about a small insignificant country in Asia nor in who runs it.

You could not possibly be more wrong. The world is very, very concerned indeed. Thailand is the 2nd largest economy in Asia, and a major base for Japanese production, as well as a major exporter of several product classifications. If you think this country is irrelevant, I suggest you do some research. You might be surprised.

???????

Maybe the world would not care much about a disruption like this if it happened in Bhutan, Brunei, Laos, or Nepal. But, Thailand is in the top 40 worldwide in terms of GDP, and manufacturing, and number 2 in SE Asia. To call this place insignificant is to be suffering from major delusion.

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