Moody's downgrades Qantas to 'junk'

[hellodolly]

I'd use QANTAS any day in preference to Garuda. Rated Garuda as 'worst meal' when I was given a warm Coke and a cold doughnut for my flight from Bali to Jakarta. Equal last was KLM, who issued newly boarded passengers on a flight from Singapore to Jakarta with a cheese sandwich. I was doubly p...d off as I'd purposely skipped dinner to have a repeat fantastic meal from JKT to SIN a few days earlier.

I've been using AA the past three years, as I can afford to use them on my pension. Other airlines I'm afraid can't match their prices. Yes, I pay for every extra, but it's a saver.

They save a lot of money by not having airline hostesses. They have an in flight sales crew

[shaurene]

Qantas, Qantas Qantas, was a great airline till the unions destroyed it, high wages, huge perks for the workers and families. The only airline to buy them would be Emirates. I had a good flight with them BKK/ Auckland, have booked them again.

I have finished with Thai.

[englishoak]

Hope Quantas have to sell to Virgin, that would be soooo poetic

[fdbob]

Another airline goes under in Australia,, could this be the headlines in the papers in the near future, Tiger, Anset, they are gone, anyone miss them?

. Well it looks like I'm in trouble I'm flying back to Bangkok next week with Tiger

[DrDweeb]

I'm not surprised at all. A couple of years back I was late for work by 5 days due to the management unilaterally shutting the airline down. Not only that, after years of loyalty on my behalf they changed the loyalty program, first by devaluing the points earned system, then later wiping off any points if you didn't fly with them or their affiliates within a certain period. Simply, they will not get any of my money ever again. There are cheaper and better airlines.

Which reminds me TG altered their points system recently, pissing off their regular customers as is the wont of carriers the world over. They raised the Gold threshold and renewal totals. For a while there TG served us business class meals in Y, but now it is just early meal service and I never seem to be able to get a glass of wine at the same time as the meal any more.

QANTAS has been the object of a concerted effort buy the Australian trade union movement. Their objective has been to destroy QANTAS, and they have succeeded. Sad, but true.

QANTAS' competition problems of late can be directly attributed to their domestic competition being partially owned by foreign governments, and with that a very different capital access cost structure. The opposition carriers can afford to be the last man standing in a race to the bottom. QANTAS cannot.

These two statements are easily verifiable.

That being said, I have not flown QANTAS internationally for decades as they do not fly the routes I travel. Domestic travel with them in Oz was problem free last time I was there, certainly nothing to complain about, which was also true of the two competitors with which I also flew.

Edited January 11, 2014 by DrDweeb

[age4short]

"A Qantas flight full of Aussies to BKK" never ever again, the staff couldn't even control the loud mouthed passengers as all they wanted was more & more alcohol which made them even more irritating, on top of the crap food, crap entertainment & crap seats was screaming kids which you get more of on a budget flight. All I could think of was the consequences if I lost the plot.

Qantas would be better off by sacking the incompetent board, raising the price of airfares & raising their standards to an acceptable level because the decision to become a low cost airline obviously hasn't worked.

Singapore, Emirates, Air NZ, Thai are not low budget but they seem to be doing ok & will do even better as the world economies pick up.

This is not a racist post, I'm an Australian living in NZ and I'm just telling it as I see it.

[DrDweeb]

Hope Quantas have to sell to Virgin, that would be soooo poetic

The suitor of the moment is clearly Emirates, and since Virgin and Tiger are cross owned IIRC, a Virgin takeover would never be approved.

[SjaakNL2013]

As many other airline companies Qantas must do where they are paid for and that is fly passengers and goods from A to B.

Cruises, Sailing & Water Tours,Cultural & Theme Tours,Day Trips & Excursions,Food, Wine & Nightlife,Multi-day & Extended Tours,Outdoor Activities,Private & Custom Tours,Shore Excursions,Shows, Concerts & Sports,Tours & Sightseeing,Transfers & Ground Transport,Viator VIP & Exclusive Tours,Walking & Biking Tours,Concerts, Bush Events, Dinner Tours and so on are not needed and general overpriced.

Back to basics I would say.

[prvtdetdave]

Qantas, Qantas Qantas, was a great airline till the unions destroyed it, high wages, huge perks for the workers and families. The only airline to buy them would be Emirates. I had a good flight with them BKK/ Auckland, have booked them again.

I have finished with Thai.

Unions destroyed it? Bullocks!

[Trentham]

Qantas, Qantas Qantas, was a great airline till the unions destroyed it, high wages, huge perks for the workers and families. The only airline to buy them would be Emirates. I had a good flight with them BKK/ Auckland, have booked them again.

I have finished with Thai.

Unions destroyed it? Bullocks!

The unions are destroying Qantas just like they are destroying all Australian industry. Their demands are over the top and Australia has been priced out of all sorts of world markets.

Where else can you get paid parental leave for both Mum and Dad, time and a half for 4 hours overtime and double pay for more than 4 hours, triple time for Sunday work in some cases, minimum 4 weeks annual leave and up to 8 weeks for teachers and university staff, 12% of everybody's pay - paid by the employer - is put aside for your retirement, an absolute minimum weekly salary of about $630. If a woman has a baby but wishes to go back to work after she must be guaranteed her job back up to 6 months after the birth. There are up to 12 public holidays per year depending upon the state which are all paid and if you get rostered on one of those days you get anything up to triple time. Night work attracts the same increased rates of pay.

There are endless other rules and privileges all demanded by the unions which most other countries workers do not get.

How can Qantas compete at the international level???

[Tazwa]

Time to buy now before the Aussie government bails them out and the share price skyrockets. Air New Zealand did the same thing about 20 years ago - got me a free house out of that fiasco.

You mean like how the government just bailed out Holden ... Not!

[TheGhostWithin]

We flew with them into Bangkok from Wellington on November 30, and back from Bangkok to Wellington on January 5 for the first time (we have flown with Thai Airways in the past).

After my experiences myself and my girlfriend also downgraded them to "junk". We will not fly with them again.

- Our flight from Wellington was late into Sydney and we asked them to confirm we would make the flight but they told me I was paranoid and the flight was on time.

- Requesting confirmation our luggage would be transferred when we got onboard the ongoing connecting flight on board staff told me my bags were transferred onto the next flight at Sydney when they weren't (along with about 30 other passengers whose bags were left behind) and then refusing to compensate my partner because "we do not compensate Thais in Thailand".

- Qantas refused to repatriate us with the remainder of our missing luggage 3 days later as we were in Yala and they told me it was my responsibility to fly from Yala to Bangkok to pick up the luggage.

- The flight from Sydney had a seat in front of my girlfriend which would not lock, meaning the passenger in front could have it permanently reclined and could not lock it in the take off position. Complaining to on-board crew saw them somehow lock it in a temporary position, which the lovely man in front promptly unlocked as soon as they turned their back. Upon complaining again I was told nothing further could be done to ensure the safety of my partner or the passenger in front during takeoff.

- Our returning flight from Sydney to Wellington was delayed by 1.5 hours after a 2.5 hour scheduled transit wait meaning 4 hours at boring Sydney airport.

My complaints to Qantas have not been answered (in written form) and I assume they will tell me that I cannot complain when I call tomorrow as it has been 14 days since my Wellington to Bangkok leg.

A big thumbs down from me, I hate this airline with a vengeance.. TG should thank these guys as I will be travelling with Thai now no matter what price they charge provided they can beat the service outlined above.

Edited January 12, 2014 by TheGhostWithin

[MJP]

Just out of mild interest, if they're now at junk status I take it this means no money, so how can they continue to afford maintenance?

[Big Pinkie]

I'd use QANTAS any day in preference to Garuda. Rated Garuda as 'worst meal' when I was given a warm Coke and a cold doughnut for my flight from Bali to Jakarta. Equal last was KLM, who issued newly boarded passengers on a flight from Singapore to Jakarta with a cheese sandwich. I was doubly p...d off as I'd purposely skipped dinner to have a repeat fantastic meal from JKT to SIN a few days earlier.

I've been using AA the past three years, as I can afford to use them on my pension. Other airlines I'm afraid can't match their prices. Yes, I pay for every extra, but it's a saver.

malaysian airlines. as soon as boarding and barely settled gave two short cheap dark socks unpackaged, as in put a sock in it.

[Bkungbank]

Rubbish airline with bad service and terrible cabin crew.

The same as Thai and KLM.

Avoid at all costs

Oreintal Thai better to Thai airways

[johnnycthedog]

I really think a lot of Australians have been completely turned off the brand "Qantas" by the actions and behaviour of the CEO Alan Joyce.

I believe so many people dislike this man that the bookings are down due in large part to his "persona." Lower bookings = lower revenue.

All he talks about is shifting jobs offshore and cutting thousands of jobs in Australia.

Yes there may be a need to rationalise and reduce expenditures but all we get from him is in-your-face statements that really do turn people off. When I see him on television I really feel a "stuff you Joyce!" type of feeling.

[louse1953]

Time to buy now before the Aussie government bails them out and the share price skyrockets. Air New Zealand did the same thing about 20 years ago - got me a free house out of that fiasco.

No bailing out by the present Rabbit regmime,if you can believe their retoric,but personly i wouldn't believe a word that comes outa the mad monks mouth.

[louse1953]

I'm not surprised at all. A couple of years back I was late for work by 5 days due to the management unilaterally shutting the airline down. Not only that, after years of loyalty on my behalf they changed the loyalty program, first by devaluing the points earned system, then later wiping off any points if you didn't fly with them or their affiliates within a certain period. Simply, they will not get any of my money ever again. There are cheaper and better airlines.

Which reminds me TG altered their points system recently, pissing off their regular customers as is the wont of carriers the world over. They raised the Gold threshold and renewal totals. For a while there TG served us business class meals in Y, but now it is just early meal service and I never seem to be able to get a glass of wine at the same time as the meal any more.

QANTAS has been the object of a concerted effort buy the Australian trade union movement. Their objective has been to destroy QANTAS, and they have succeeded. Sad, but true.

QANTAS' competition problems of late can be directly attributed to their domestic competition being partially owned by foreign governments, and with that a very different capital access cost structure. The opposition carriers can afford to be the last man standing in a race to the bottom. QANTAS cannot.

These two statements are easily verifiable.

That being said, I have not flown QANTAS internationally for decades as they do not fly the routes I travel. Domestic travel with them in Oz was problem free last time I was there, certainly nothing to complain about, which was also true of the two competitors with which I also flew.

Not true at all.Pray tell,why would the workers "destroy" Qantas,therefore their own jobs,they just want a fair wage,in line with the heiracy.

[Daniel Boon]

bushman1666 ... I don't think they read this forum Mate ...

[louse1953]

"A Qantas flight full of Aussies to BKK" never ever again, the staff couldn't even control the loud mouthed passengers as all they wanted was more & more alcohol which made them even more irritating, on top of the crap food, crap entertainment & crap seats was screaming kids which you get more of on a budget flight. All I could think of was the consequences if I lost the plot. Qantas would be better off by sacking the incompetent board, raising the price of airfares & raising their standards to an acceptable level because the decision to become a low cost airline obviously hasn't worked. Singapore, Emirates, Air NZ, Thai are not low budget but they seem to be doing ok & will do even better as the world economies pick up. This is not a racist post, I'm an Australian living in NZ and I'm just telling it as I see it.

Qantas is definitly not a low cost carrier,but Jetstar is.Passengers just trying to get a bit back with free beer to compensate for the outragious price they paid.Give me AA anytime,get what you pay for,no surprises,and bring your own sanga's.

[louse1953]

Qantas, Qantas Qantas, was a great airline till the unions destroyed it, high wages, huge perks for the workers and families. The only airline to buy them would be Emirates. I had a good flight with them BKK/ Auckland, have booked them again.

I have finished with Thai.

Unions destroyed it? Bullocks!

The unions are destroying Qantas just like they are destroying all Australian industry. Their demands are over the top and Australia has been priced out of all sorts of world markets.

Where else can you get paid parental leave for both Mum and Dad, time and a half for 4 hours overtime and double pay for more than 4 hours, triple time for Sunday work in some cases, minimum 4 weeks annual leave and up to 8 weeks for teachers and university staff, 12% of everybody's pay - paid by the employer - is put aside for your retirement, an absolute minimum weekly salary of about $630. If a woman has a baby but wishes to go back to work after she must be guaranteed her job back up to 6 months after the birth. There are up to 12 public holidays per year depending upon the state which are all paid and if you get rostered on one of those days you get anything up to triple time. Night work attracts the same increased rates of pay.

There are endless other rules and privileges all demanded by the unions which most other countries workers do not get.

How can Qantas compete at the international level???

Paid parental leave is a Liberal party policy,and as far as the rest is concerned,this kind of pay is what is needed to keep pace with inflated prices of the basics,bought on by coperate greed.By the way,Jetstar doesn't mind paying $400 a week to it's Thai employee's,this is what happens without unions.

[Old Croc]

Qantas has been on a downward spiral for many years. Even though I was (am) a member of their frequent flyer club I haven't been on one of their aircraft for more than a decade. Too expensive, inconvenient routing.

That Irish leprechaun in charge is going to be the end of the company. He actually grounded the whole fleet a few years ago as a tactic in an industrial dispute. Left customers stranded all over the world. Many of them would never have used the airline again.

[louse1953]

I really think a lot of Australians have been completely turned off the brand "Qantas" by the actions and behaviour of the CEO Alan Joyce.

I believe so many people dislike this man that the bookings are down due in large part to his "persona." Lower bookings = lower revenue.

All he talks about is shifting jobs offshore and cutting thousands of jobs in Australia.

Yes there may be a need to rationalise and reduce expenditures but all we get from him is in-your-face statements that really do turn people off. When I see him on television I really feel a "stuff you Joyce!" type of feeling.

Can only agree,charisma bypass,and he certainly hates his employees and the feeling is mutual.Happy workers happy company.

[balford]

Qantas was a world class airline and then came Geoff Dixon and the assassination of Ansett - a few 'competitors' came along but couldn't last in the face of political interference and the 49% rule.

Qantas went downhill fast in its standards, efficiency and international standing in the face of ludicrous work conditions, perks and inefficient administration. At the moment it seems it's equally inept off-sider, Jetstar, will only drag it down further and the 'Irish leprechaun' as one wit dubbed him (perhaps the poison dwarf might be a better description) will oversee the death of what WAS a great airline.

Bob A. Relaxed in Lampang

[simple1]

There is a good analysis on the negative impact on Qantas by the Virgin Australia key foreign investors support in a battle for the domestic market and the damage being caused, in effect a battle of attrition

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/opinion/qantas-needs-to-defend-its-domestic-market-share-by-raising-capital/story-fng7vg0p-1226777457863#

[masuk]

I'd use QANTAS any day in preference to Garuda. Rated Garuda as 'worst meal' when I was given a warm Coke and a cold doughnut for my flight from Bali to Jakarta. Equal last was KLM, who issued newly boarded passengers on a flight from Singapore to Jakarta with a cheese sandwich. I was doubly p...d off as I'd purposely skipped dinner to have a repeat fantastic meal from JKT to SIN a few days earlier.

I've been using AA the past three years, as I can afford to use them on my pension. Other airlines I'm afraid can't match their prices. Yes, I pay for every extra, but it's a saver.

There is not a single airline in the United States that will give you anything nearly as luxurious as a cheese sandwich on a 5-6 hour flight from New York to Los Angeles. The best you can hope for is a bag of chips, and I only know of one airline that does that. Some will even charge you for the Coke. I wish we could get a cheese sandwich or a donut. I would take Qantas or KLM over any North American airline any day of the week, and gladly pay a hefty surcharge for the privilege.

Last year, I flew both Virgin Australia and Qantas on domestic flights in Australia, Qantas was infinitely better in every possible way compared to Virgin, which is a bare-bones economy airline. At least Virgin America has nice interiors and inflight entertainment to offer. Virgin AU offers nothing but a seat.

QANTAS has great meals and these and the small bottle of wine are included in the fare. I've fond the service great, but their fares are just that bit too much.

My first flight ever with Virgin was immediately after I'd returned for 2 years overseas. I knew nothing about them and their pricing structure. I had to get across the country in a hurry too see a sick parent, and I booked with Virgin, and packed everything in my checked baggage. - yes, wallet included. dooh.

When I asked for a glass of water, I was told it would cost $2.00. All I could do was apologise and say I didn't have a bean on me. I stayed thirsty for another 2000km!

[F4UCorsair]

QF pilots are underpaid by comparison with many of the world's airlines. $350-400K for an A340/B747 is not a lot when compared with airlines in other countries.

The pilots have always been the soft targets for airline managements because they just want to keep flying and get the job done. Other unions, loaders and flight attendants, particularly, don't value their jobs and won't back down so the management does. It's why cabin managers earn $150K, and loaders $120K+.

Back to the discussion though, and Joyce is running the airline into the ground and growing Jetstar, the LCC arm of QF. When the bulk of the flying is being done by Jetstar, it will be rebranded Qantas, all/most staff will be paid less than half (Jetstar A330 Captain on less than $200K currenlty), and the bottom line will be dramatically improved.

[F4UCorsair]

There is a good analysis on the negative impact on Qantas by the Virgin Australia key foreign investors support in a battle for the domestic market and the damage being caused, in effect a battle of attrition

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/opinion/qantas-needs-to-defend-its-domestic-market-share-by-raising-capital/story-fng7vg0p-1226777457863#

Qantas is paying the price for appointing Joyce from the Jetstar CEO's position to CEO Qantas instead of the usual succession plan. John Borghetti was pi$$ed off so offered himself to Virgin, and he's taking on Qantas, with a fair degree of success.

The problem QF is facing is the foreign investment restriction/s of 49% foreign capital, which doesn't constrain Virgin. As a consequence, Virgin has sought capital from a number of international airlines, they're code sharing and dumping domestic seats at below cost, making it awfully difficult for QF to match if they want to survive.

[Chao Lao Beach]

It wont go under, they are just lowering the price before Abbot gives the go ahead for the EK buyout and the big bonuses are served on a golden plate.

I am actually surprised that Allen Joyce hasn't toped himself yet, Bugettie was expected to be CEO, I bet the QF share holders are spewing that AJ got it now.

[Cats4ever]

It is a pity they stopped flying to a lot of places customers wanted to go. As I fly from MEL, I have the option of Jetstar or another airline. If I was going to Europe, via Dubai, O.K.; I am not. Alan Joyce has not been a success. He is probably paid a lot more than CEOs of many competitor airlines (CEOs have taken up the americanistion of CEO wages enthusiastically). On the other hand, didn't Moodys issue Triple A ratings to a lot of bundled mortgage packets in the years leading into 2008?