Hard To Find Workers

[mazo]

This may not be on target, but I would be surprised if its very far off. The problem of your staff turnover may be more to do with either your GF/Wifes or your own management style. You would be surprised how much this matters to Thai's often more so than the actual salary - if you have had people accept the salary and start, its probably sufficient, however if they dont stay its generally because the 'karma' for lack of a better word is not good in their minds.

I would say that Digger may have hit the nail on the head. My gf left a receptionist job after a month or so. When I asked why, the boss, who happened to be the owners wife. spoke to all the staff as if they were something that she had trod in When I ask what she want from her job she said only nice people to work with, the salary didn't seem so important. Maybe you should watch how your wife/gf is with the staff. From what i can tell a bit of respect goes a long way.

I concur with the above

so you guys think that its our managment style thats the problem as well as the salary. as i said before i leave most of the relations to my wife as she is cool heart if there is ever a problem i get my wife to talk with the staff first. i never shout or talk down to staff as i know this is not the best way to get the best from them. also when staff have been trained i leave them alone to get on with it i dont breath down there necks. i tell them to make the job there own and to put in to place there own working methods. after all its them doing the job not me we work together i dont just tell them what to do. i believe that me and my wife are nice pepole and we like a nice family atmosphere at work you are all welcome to come and see for your self my name is ian and my wifes name is aor pop in for a drink any time http://www.metro-apartments-pattaya.com/ to my knowledge no staff have left because of me or my wife. i could give you the reasons they give me but that would take up to much space but not once has any one told me its because of quote 'karma' for lack of a better word is not good in their minds' the reasons are mostly family stuff or boyfriends. as far as the the pay is concerned 6000 to 8000 baht is the average pay in a small hotel like mine. i am not the marriott or evan the nana if i was to put staff pay up i would have to put the prices up in my hotel but i am afraid all the competition in pattaya does not allow for this as pepole would just go to the cheaper places i would love to pay pepole more but market forces dont allow. i dont know how many of you own small business in thailand not many i think because you would know the profit margin is not great. the only bonus is that i get to live in thailand with my lovely wife and to have an ok life style. i live in a new soi with lots of new business and we all have the same staffing problems not just me i thought thailand was a poor country with many unemployed pepole obviously i was wrong

to noel

why would candidates for the job be concernd that i would be constantly breathing down there necks because i spelt whanted and not wanted. please elaborate on this for me because i do not see the connection with my grammar and staff relations what are you trying to say

best regards ian.

Edited May 23, 2006 by mazo

[WISteve]

On the distantly related subject of uni grads:

A 22 year old uni grad with a degree in hotel management/marketing who I happened to meet while I was in Pattaya in April.

I doubt she would settle for any of the afore mentioned salary levels since she has quickly grown accustomed to a little higher pay scale!

Don't take the comments personally Ian. I'm sure the posters are just looking for answers for the transiate work force when there are really very few good answers. I know a couple other owners of moderate size hotels in your area and they are all plaqued by the same problem as yourself. One of them has resorted to renting a fan room nearby for some of his domestics and stacking 2-3 per room to mininize the cost. They actually seem to prefer to have the company to living alone anyway. He pays the rent and takes the electric out of their respective pay envelopes. they seem to think twice about leaving a job when they know they will need to find new acommodations along with a new job.

You have a good looking place!

Best of luck,

~WISteve

[Mobi]

Mazo,I was going to keep out of this, but seeing as you have responded with justified indignation, I will add a few words of support.

I think it is extremely presumptious for anyone to criticise the Op's/wife's mangement style, when they have no first hand experience of the OP's situation. If anyone has been in his hotel and seen the staff being treated like shit, then fair enough, but as it is, it's all just so much crap.

There could be any number of reasons why he can't keep staff, ranging from the salary and benefit levels, inconvenient location, temptation of better employment nearby, bad treatment of staff, choosing the wrong staff in the first place. But we don't know which of these reasons, or indeed others, it might be. We can only hypothesise.

The only employment of staff I have been involved in in recent years in Thailand have been domestics and drivers, but I have been an employer of staff in Thailand and was a major employer in other developing countries, as well as in the UK. Some rules about staff employment are universal - and one of the most important is to choose the right ones in the first place, whatever the position. Its not just a matter of being qualifieed for the job; look into their background - are they over qualified? - what is their personal situation? are they likely to stay a long time?. For example, in the lower paid echelons, older staff in stable family situations are more likely to be long term faithful employees than youngsters just starting out.

All these and other reasons can affect your staff turnover - and for someone to jump in and accuse the poor guy of treating his staff badly, and then everyone jumps on the bandwagon and agrees like a bunch of parrots is patently ridiculous.

[Padre Burgos]

Mazo,I was going to keep out of this, but seeing as you have responded with justified indignation, I will add a few words of support.

I think it is extremely presumptious for anyone to criticise the Op's/wife's mangement style, when they have no first hand experience of the OP's situation. If anyone has been in his hotel and seen the staff being treated like shit, then fair enough, but as it is, it's all just so much crap.

There could be any number of reasons why he can't keep staff, ranging from the salary and benefit levels, inconvenient location, temptation of better employment nearby, bad treatment of staff, choosing the wrong staff in the first place. But we don't know which of these reasons, or indeed others, it might be. We can only hypothesise.

The only employment of staff I have been involved in in recent years in Thailand have been domestics and drivers, but I have been an employer of staff in Thailand and was a major employer in other developing countries, as well as in the UK. Some rules about staff employment are universal - and one of the most important is to choose the right ones in the first place, whatever the position. Its not just a matter of being qualifieed for the job; look into their background - are they over qualified? - what is their personal situation? are they likely to stay a long time?. For example, in the lower paid echelons, older staff in stable family situations are more likely to be long term faithful employees than youngsters just starting out.

All these and other reasons can affect your staff turnover - and for someone to jump in and accuse the poor guy of treating his staff badly, and then everyone jumps on the bandwagon and agrees like a bunch of parrots is patently ridiculous.

If you read the posts of Digger and myself they were suggestions not accusations.

The OP feels his salary of 6000 is competitive and as far as I can tell he is not far off the mark so the problem may not be there.

Offers of better employment elsewhere, by which I think you mean more money. Inevitably some will leave for a few extra Baht but as I said earlier I think a nice workng enviroment carries mroe sway.

Inconvenient location. This I have heard from more than 1 girl so is entirley possible. Why they take jobs that are to far for them to travel I dont know. This must be very frustrating for employers.

As for doing thorough checks before hiring this just isn't practicle. Most of the grils will be from the provinces, who are going to check with? And quite honestly you will never know how good staff are, in Thailand or elsewhere, until you take them on and let them do thejob.

Just my thoughts.

[Noel]

to noel

why would candidates for the job be concernd that i would be constantly breathing down there necks because i spelt whanted and not wanted. please elaborate on this for me because i do not see the connection with my grammar and staff relations what are you trying to say

best regards ian.

Lighten up Ian, it was meant as a (poor as it turns out) joke!

Good luck with the recruiting.

[Kerryd]

As for the wages, consider this.

Hot Pot restaurants: 180-200 baht/day, 6 days/week (4,600 - 5,200/month).

Service staff (many discos, a-go-gos and bars) - 4,500 - 6,000 baht/month (some with very few days off at all).

I was going to take over a small shop here, and one of the women in the building agreed to work for me (10-12 hours/day) for 150 baht/day.

I know quite a few girls working as clerks and waitress's, that share apartments with 2-3 or more other girls, to cut down on costs. The more they save, the more they can send home every month.

BTW: did you find replacement staff yet ?

[Digger]

This may not be on target, but I would be surprised if its very far off. The problem of your staff turnover may be more to do with either your GF/Wifes or your own management style. You would be surprised how much this matters to Thai's often more so than the actual salary - if you have had people accept the salary and start, its probably sufficient, however if they dont stay its generally because the 'karma' for lack of a better word is not good in their minds.

I would say that Digger may have hit the nail on the head. My gf left a receptionist job after a month or so. When I asked why, the boss, who happened to be the owners wife. spoke to all the staff as if they were something that she had trod in When I ask what she want from her job she said only nice people to work with, the salary didn't seem so important. Maybe you should watch how your wife/gf is with the staff. From what i can tell a bit of respect goes a long way.

I concur with the above

so you guys think that its our managment style thats the problem as well as the salary. as i said before i leave most of the relations to my wife as she is cool heart if there is ever a problem i get my wife to talk with the staff first. i never shout or talk down to staff as i know this is not the best way to get the best from them. also when staff have been trained i leave them alone to get on with it i dont breath down there necks. i tell them to make the job there own and to put in to place there own working methods. after all its them doing the job not me we work together i dont just tell them what to do. i believe that me and my wife are nice pepole and we like a nice family atmosphere at work you are all welcome to come and see for your self my name is ian and my wifes name is aor pop in for a drink any time http://www.metro-apartments-pattaya.com/ to my knowledge no staff have left because of me or my wife. i could give you the reasons they give me but that would take up to much space but not once has any one told me its because of quote 'karma' for lack of a better word is not good in their minds' the reasons are mostly family stuff or boyfriends. as far as the the pay is concerned 6000 to 8000 baht is the average pay in a small hotel like mine. i am not the marriott or evan the nana if i was to put staff pay up i would have to put the prices up in my hotel but i am afraid all the competition in pattaya does not allow for this as pepole would just go to the cheaper places i would love to pay pepole more but market forces dont allow. i dont know how many of you own small business in thailand not many i think because you would know the profit margin is not great. the only bonus is that i get to live in thailand with my lovely wife and to have an ok life style. i live in a new soi with lots of new business and we all have the same staffing problems not just me i thought thailand was a poor country with many unemployed pepole obviously i was wrong

to noel

why would candidates for the job be concernd that i would be constantly breathing down there necks because i spelt whanted and not wanted. please elaborate on this for me because i do not see the connection with my grammar and staff relations what are you trying to say

best regards ian.

Ian - you asked for ideas, I gave one - I have no idea how relevant it is to your situation but as I said, I doubt I am that far off. For example, based on what you have said in the above, it might well be that the staff are not comfortable 'working on their own initiative' its not the way they have been taught as school and while your idea is great to a westerner, to a Thai, they may panic and not be comfortable with so much flexibility. They are used to having direction in everything they do. Might be something to think about. As I say, I dont think it is the salary - your getting people starting but they are not staying - therefore you need to understand what is the issue, and for sure, they aint going to tell you - way to disrepectfull.

[mazo]

hello guys

Thanks for all of your views on this topic i have now found replacement staff thanks to all you guys who sent e mails and pms.

For what its worth here are my views we are brought up in the west with the expectation of when we leave school we get a job hopefully for life although thats not guaranteed now days. To get a wife to get a house ie mortgage car ect generally keeping up with the jonses rat race life. And in the west we can have all of this because we are rich countrys. But most thais 70% or more are not brought up like this most dont have expectations in life because they know its out of reach for them i dont know any thais with a mortgage . So they live a day to day life style most thais i know live in rented rooms eat cheap food and have no cometments only to the family. So if i in the west i did not go to work i would not be able to pay bills mortgage i would lose everything. In thailand thats ok because most dont have anything to lose so not much incentive to go to work. So just keep living day to day untill something beter comes along maybe win the lottery or get a western boyfriend to take care buddha will provide. How many thais do you know that save money most i know spend it as soon as they get it then pray to buddha for a beter tomorow. I dont think they are taught to plan for there future enough and i am not talking about the thai chinese because for some reason they can bulid business and plan for the future. I am not knocking thailand as i would not like it to become like the rat race west but then again the lack of a decent future and poverty is awful to. I can tell you my wife was like this no hopes or dreams but now she can see a beter future she works like a trooper to keep a hold of it because now she has hope she is lucky most thais dont have this maybe i am wrong but its just what i see.

chears mazo

Edited May 24, 2006 by mazo

[Mobi]

Good Post Mazo. A good insight, and one I agree with completely.

As you say, the Thai- Chinese tend to be more ambitious, business like and prepared to put something away for the future ( I was to married one for 26 years). However, if you give Thais a chance and a glimmer of hope for a better life, some will take it - like your wife, and like my current wife, who has changed from being pretty laid back to being quite dynamic. It's a cultural thing driven by never endemic poverty and a wretched State education system which doesn't encourage the poor students to think for themselves. But in spite of everything, it's surprising how many manage to rise out of it and make something of their lives.

Good luck with your new staff.

[sebastian]

Hi mazo, just a thought, I presume this is your first foray in the hotel business, ex pat in Pattaya and all that. Where did your wife work before? does she have experience in the hospitality trade?

You want experienced staff right, they will have ways of working that they are used to. If they are being told to do things another way they will never argue or critisize especially not with the boss' wife. They will probably stick it out for a while then find something less stressfull.

As digger said, karma goes a long way over there.

[mazo]

Hi mazo, just a thought, I presume this is your first foray in the hotel business, ex pat in Pattaya and all that. Where did your wife work before? does she have experience in the hospitality trade?

You want experienced staff right, they will have ways of working that they are used to. If they are being told to do things another way they will never argue or critisize especially not with the boss' wife. They will probably stick it out for a while then find something less stressfull.

As digger said, karma goes a long way over there.

[/quote

ok sebastian i was not in the hotel business in the uk but i was in management. And i had a lot more pepole under me than i have now but i never had the staff turn over i have here. As i say pepole in england have a lot more cometments so they have to go to work. Also you say that they will have ways of working that they are used to. I have allready said :quote (when staff have been trained i leave them alone to get on with it i dont breath down there necks. I tell them to make the job there own and to put in to place there own working methods after all its them doing the job not me) But digger says :quote ( it might well be that the staff are not comfortable 'working on their own initiative' its not the way they have been taught as school and while your idea is great to a westerner, to a Thai, they may panic and not be comfortable with so much flexibility) So i can not win.

And i never said i was lookig for experienced staff or for a uni grad with a degree just some one with a ok grasp of english and is willing to work. The jobs not that stressfull or hard as i said its not the marriott. i am in my soi's business association and the lack of workers is allways a topic evan the thai laundry on our soi can not find workers. The big lk hotel behind me has allways got a bored out side asking for allsorts of workers. Maybe because pattaya is geting bigger there is not enough thai workers to go around.

chears mazo

[Pattaya_Fox]

Hi mazo, just a thought, I presume this is your first foray in the hotel business, ex pat in Pattaya and all that. Where did your wife work before? does she have experience in the hospitality trade?

You want experienced staff right, they will have ways of working that they are used to. If they are being told to do things another way they will never argue or critisize especially not with the boss' wife. They will probably stick it out for a while then find something less stressfull.

As digger said, karma goes a long way over there.

[/quote

ok sebastian i was not in the hotel business in the uk but i was in management. And i had a lot more pepole under me than i have now but i never had the staff turn over i have here. As i say pepole in england have a lot more cometments so they have to go to work. Also you say that they will have ways of working that they are used to. I have allready said :quote (when staff have been trained i leave them alone to get on with it i dont breath down there necks. I tell them to make the job there own and to put in to place there own working methods after all its them doing the job not me) But digger says :quote ( it might well be that the staff are not comfortable 'working on their own initiative' its not the way they have been taught as school and while your idea is great to a westerner, to a Thai, they may panic and not be comfortable with so much flexibility) So i can not win.

And i never said i was lookig for experienced staff or for a uni grad with a degree just some one with a ok grasp of english and is willing to work. The jobs not that stressfull or hard as i said its not the marriott. i am in my soi's business association and the lack of workers is allways a topic evan the thai laundry on our soi can not find workers. The big lk hotel behind me has allways got a bored out side asking for allsorts of workers. Maybe because pattaya is geting bigger there is not enough thai workers to go around.

chears mazo

Good post Mazo....you hit the nail on the head.....there are so many new businesses springing up especially in your area that to engage staff and keep them on a permanent basis is very hard.

It is not just the question of money, but many other things which makes staff leave what seems a steady job.

Because of the rapid development in the area you may find that you will probably have to live with the fact that staff may only stay for a shorter time than you would have wished. Maybe when the development has settled somewhat then you may get staff looking to stay in their jobs for longer.

It`s good to see that you have recruited recently and good look with your new employees.

P.S when you next see LLoydie give him my regards

Fox.