Medical workers support Narong in fight with govt

[webfact]

POLITICS
Medical workers support Narong in fight with govt
Suriyan Panyawai
The Nation


Thousands of medical workers yesterday offer support to Public Health Ministry permanent secretary Dr Narong Sahamethapat, who last Thursday publicly challenged the Yingluck administration

BANGKOK: -- Thousands of medical workers yesterday gave support to senior Public Health Ministry officials who last Thursday rejected the Yingluck administration's right to govern, saying they did not want to work with the government.

The group of medical workers - the so-called "Public Health Society" comprising 20 public health communities - include the Thai Federation of General and Central Hospital Doctors, the Director of Rural Hospitals Society, the Public Health Society of Thailand and the Dentistry Society.

Yesterday they visited the Public Health Ministry to back its permanent secretary, Dr Narong Sahamethapat.

Last week he was warned by caretaker Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra about publicly expressing his political stance, and over his joining the society to issue a statement against the government.

Prachumporn Boonchareon, a member of the society, said Narong had done the right thing in opposing the government. She said the government did not have the moral right to run the country. Medical workers at the Public Health Ministry would only follow orders from Narong and opposed any intervention from the government, she said.

Previously, caretaker Public Health Minister Pradith Sinthawanarong issued an order designating the deputy permanent secretary to take charge - instead of Narong - of overseeing the emergency medical services operation during the political turmoil. Pradith also issued an order prohibiting health officials from taking leave or joining any political movement.

Pradith said he would set up a committee to investigate the facts behind Narong's political stance, but said the permanent secretary would not be punished for his actions. Pradith said all officials had the right to express their political opinions and were free to take leave and join the protest.

Meanwhile, Narong said he wanted to thank the health officials for their support, adding that he believed he had done the right thing to serve the public. However, he would not quit the top position at the ministry, he said.


-- The Nation 2014-01-13

[expat888]

I think the medical community would be better served if they had stayed neutral. They just opened a can of worms for themselves.

[Spare]

I think the medical community would be better served if they had stayed neutral. They just opened a can of worms for themselves.

No pain no gain.

All doctors should stand down until Yingluck resign.

That is going to hurt Yingluck government so mush she has to surrender.

No pain no gain.

[ginjag]

I think the medical community would be better served if they had stayed neutral. They just opened a can of worms for themselves.

In other words you do not want to see any more opposition to Yingluck. Try to defend her for what ???

Lets all stay neutral wouldn't it be lovely. and leave her to Not govern honestly.

[Travel Dude]

I remember how a friend told me his hotel had to pay over-bill to the ministry of public health for one of their seminars. The costs were 100.000 but the invoice had to be 150.000 and 50.000 minus VAT to be given back in cash... All corrupts... That was when the pretty lady was Minister of Public Health

[toybits]

Holding the public hostage is what this really is... Why do the public have be the ones to pay for your divergent political view? This is a betrayal of the people's vote.

[scorecard]

I think the medical community would be better served if they had stayed neutral. They just opened a can of worms for themselves.

?

[geriatrickid]

I think the medical community would be better served if they had stayed neutral. They just opened a can of worms for themselves.

In other words you do not want to see any more opposition to Yingluck. Try to defend her for what ???

Lets all stay neutral wouldn't it be lovely. and leave her to Not govern honestly.

Do you understand that Narong in his position as permanent secretary was responsible for the salary negotiations with the medical personnel?

Not too long ago they were calling for his head. Now they are bosom buddies.

This is all about a vested interest group still angry over not getting the large pay increases they demanded, coming out to settle a political score.

[Briggsy]

Permanent Secretary is a very high-ranking civil servant. It is interesting to note this incident shows very clearly how the top of the civil service is a fiefdom in its own right, jostling with the elected government for power and the riches that come with it, rather than occupying a place under the government ministers carrying out government policy according to minister's instructions and the law.

[geriatrickid]

I remember how a friend told me his hotel had to pay over-bill to the ministry of public health for one of their seminars. The costs were 100.000 but the invoice had to be 150.000 and 50.000 minus VAT to be given back in cash... All corrupts... That was when the pretty lady was Minister of Public Health

interesting, but you have the wrong person. The Minister doesn't authorize small bill payments, nor does the minister oversee the type of event that you describe.Would you like to take a stab at who has the responsibility for that?

Why, it's the permanent secretary.

Who was the permanent secretary at the time?

Edited January 13, 2014 by geriatrickid

[scorecard]

"Previously, caretaker Public Health Minister Pradith Sinthawanarong issued an order designating the deputy permanent secretary to take charge - instead of Narong - of overseeing the emergency medical services operation during the political turmoil. Pradith also issued an order prohibiting health officials from taking leave or joining any political movement.

Pradith said he would set up a committee to investigate the facts behind Narong's political stance, but said the permanent secretary would not be punished for his actions. Pradith said all officials had the right to express their political opinions and were free to take leave and join the protest."

- ... issued an order prohibiting health officials from take leave and joining any political movement.

- ...said all officials had the right to express their political opinions and were free to take leave and join the protest.

Which one is it Mr. Pradith?

[geriatrickid]

Permanent Secretary is a very high-ranking civil servant. It is interesting to note this incident shows very clearly how the top of the civil service is a fiefdom in its own right, jostling with the elected government for power and the riches that come with it, rather than occupying a place under the government ministers carrying out government policy according to minister's instructions and the law.

If I may add, the permanent secretary oversees the spending and has tenure. It is next to impossible to fire one of them.

Interesting how a Democrat appointment can hang around all these years. If he was so upset with the PTP, why didn't he resign long ago?

Edited January 13, 2014 by geriatrickid

[scorecard]

I remember how a friend told me his hotel had to pay over-bill to the ministry of public health for one of their seminars. The costs were 100.000 but the invoice had to be 150.000 and 50.000 minus VAT to be given back in cash... All corrupts... That was when the pretty lady was Minister of Public Health

interesting, but you have the wrong person. The Minister doesn't authorize small bill payments, nor does the minister oversee the type of event that you describe.Would you like to take a stab at who has the responsibility for that?

Why, it's the permanent secretary.

Who was the permanent secretary at the time?

Anad of course g'kid, as you often seem to tell us, everybody in the govt / caretaker govt and their hangers on is totally honest and they would never do anything tricky or corrupt, never.

[edwardandtubs]

Have they never even heard of the Hippocratic Oath? Doctors are there to protect human life, not meddle in politics.

[Scamper]

" Pradith also issued an order prohibiting health officials from taking leave or joining any political movement. "

Later -

" Pradith said all officials had the right to express their political opinions and were free to take leave and join the protest. "

Why such a sudden about face ? Could two orders be any more contrasted ? Does anyone still think these people in the Pheu Thai administration have any idea what they're doing from a day to day basis ? Or are even sane ? In any event, we have to be thankful he got it right the second time. The first statement doesn't recognize a free society. At all. Pretty chilling. The second does.

[MILT]

Holding the public hostage is what this really is... Why do the public have be the ones to pay for your divergent political view? This is a betrayal of the people's vote.

There seems to be a lot of TV posters quoting "This is a betrayal of the people's vote." I see it as the PTP (Pardon Thaskin Party) betrayed the peoples vote when they focused on

their leader in Dubai. This or any government is reminded that they govern the whole country not just those who took the money to vote. That includes those who didn't vote for them or didn't vote at all.

That to is a part of democracy. Some say that this will blow up in Sutheps and the Dems. face but actually this has exposed this joke of a government for what they really are.

[SICHONSTEVE]

I think the medical community would be better served if they had stayed neutral. They just opened a can of worms for themselves.

Why should he stay neutral - he is simply giving his opinions as to the legitimacy of this government to carry on governing, as a Thai citizen.

[scorecard]

Have they never even heard of the Hippocratic Oath? Doctors are there to protect human life, not meddle in politics.

They also have rights to protest at what they see as immoral.

And not all medical staff are doctors.

[Costas2008]

Spare, on 13 Jan 2014 - 08:56, said:

expat888, on 13 Jan 2014 - 08:43, said:

I think the medical community would be better served if they had stayed neutral. They just opened a can of worms for themselves.

No pain no gain.

All doctors should stand down until Yingluck resign.

That is going to hurt Yingluck government so mush she has to surrender.

No pain no gain.

Good thing they are not so silly as to take your advice.

Hope you are in good health and you will not be needing them in the foreseeable future.

[Nickymaster]

I think the medical community would be better served if they had stayed neutral. They just opened a can of worms for themselves.

You got me there expat. That's a tricky one. I am cornered and have nothing to say.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Have they never even heard of the Hippocratic Oath? Doctors are there to protect human life, not meddle in politics.

They also have rights to protest at what they see as immoral.

And not all medical staff are doctors.

Not forgetting that the PTP politicians took an 'oath of office' whereby they swear to defend and hold allegiance to the constitution not pick out the pieces they like and rubbish the bits that get in their way towards committing corrupt practices and turning government into a dictatorship run by the 'king of corruption' himself!!

[Thait Spot]

Have they never even heard of the Hippocratic Oath? Doctors are there to protect human life, not meddle in politics.

I sure can see all the Thai practitioners swearing their oath to a bunch of defunct Greek gods.

Be aware that the oath also includes 'swearing to protect people from injustice" and also swearing no to operate on people!!!

and that the oath swears to be free of "mischief"

[scorecard]

Spare, on 13 Jan 2014 - 08:56, said:

expat888, on 13 Jan 2014 - 08:43, said:

I think the medical community would be better served if they had stayed neutral. They just opened a can of worms for themselves.

No pain no gain.

All doctors should stand down until Yingluck resign.

That is going to hurt Yingluck government so mush she has to surrender.

No pain no gain.

Good thing they are not so silly as to take your advice.

Hope you are in good health and you will not be needing them in the foreseeable future. width=19 alt=whistling.gif pagespeed_url_hash=3700464609>

And your saying they should sit in their office / whatever just in case you are sick. There are alternate medical facilities.

Ultimately you and I need to respect their right to strongly show their voice / protest in regard to the current govt. / caretaker govt. which is raping their country for their own greedy immoral desires with no hesitation and no conscience and making a total mockery of real democracy and the checks and balances of democracy, and recently tried in the early hours of the morning (when they thought everybody would be sleeping) to railroad an amnesty for their dear leader - a convicted criminal fugitive.

[h90]

I think the medical community would be better served if they had stayed neutral. They just opened a can of worms for themselves.

With the disaster in the medical care (for all more expensive medicine you must pay yourself as they got excluded from the 30 Baht system recently) it is almost a duty to demonstrate against the government. Because that means that poor people don't get proper help anymore when they need it most.

[jpeg]

As we're on the subject of public health, wouldn't some of that 2 trillion PTP want to 'borrow' be better spent on upgrading local government hospitals nationwide rather than some over priced inevitably useless uneconomically viable high speed train network which would only benefit the Chinese getting their crap down and around faster?

One of a zillion reasons this maladministration should be booted the fck OUT!

[love1012]

It look like western people not got respect for anyone who dont like Thaksin - you Isan lady teach you very well!

[climbertrev1]

I think the medical community would be better served if they had stayed neutral. They just opened a can of worms for themselves.

In other words you do not want to see any more opposition to Yingluck. Try to defend her for what ???

Lets all stay neutral wouldn't it be lovely. and leave her to Not govern honestly.

Using your logic the ConLibs should stand down in the UK, Obama should stand down in the US. Lots of people rightly or wrongly don't support their policies either.

It can be argued that Thatcher was brought down by the opposition to Poll Tax but there is a very important difference. Thatcher was removed by her own cabinet and eventually the Conservatives lost the 1997 General election. The democratic process was allowed to take its course. You can argue that Thailand doesn't have true democracy the same could be said of democracies everywhere. They are all imperfect. It is up to us the people in our respective countries to make them better. We end up ultimately with the government the majority of us deserve.

What is happening currently in Thailand, is effectively destroying what democracy they do have. As for this medical alliance it is the equivalent of the NHS workers refusing to cooperate with government policies. They then begin to actively work to oppose and remove the government. The difference is we have the rule of law operating in the UK. These medical practitioners would be subject to all kinds of disciplinary actions if they tried to do the same thing, quite rightly, in the UK. To give up neutrality in this way is totally destructive for them and for Thailand.

It is the same with the Thai colonel who has said that the American lawyer who made a statement in support of Thaksin is not welcome in Thailand. What right has anyone in the Armed services to say who can and cannot come to Thailand?

Anyone wanting to oppose Yingluk and her governments policies should do so by democratic means. If she is so bad and her policies so poor it should be easy to get rid of her at the ballot box.

[climbertrev1]

It look like western people not got respect for anyone who dont like Thaksin - you Isan lady teach you very well!

It is not about liking Thaksin or Yingluck or government it about a belief that democracy is the only reliable way forward. I really don't care who wins the elections. I just want to see a fair election and the majority party or parties forming the next government.

Write and publish your manifesto and gather support by forming truly democratic parties. Democracy is about catering for the majority and still remains the best form of government. I want to see the rule of law applied fairly and equitably. I want to see Thailand rid itself of the scourge of corruption and look after all its people not just help make a wealthy elite even richer.

Thaksin and his allies have won every election since 1992 for the simple reason that their polices resonate with the rural poor who make up the majority of Thai people.

If these protesters want to gain a majority and win an election they need to come up with equivalent policies that give hope to the majority of Thai people. To do this they need to gain the trust of these same people. What is happening today in Bangkok is destroying any hope of building trust with these people. The protesters are trying to steal the election from the majority. The protesters in the main are being conned by an elite who just want to maintain their power and wealth. This elite sees democracy and any party with the support of the majority as a threat to their own well being and affluence.

These protesters are being led into a state of Fascism and oppression of the majority. It has the potential to destroy the nation. Thailand is a modern entity it could end up being a temporary state on transition to a fragmentation.

I wonder how the likes of Islamic extremists are viewing the current situation. Some of them must see this as a huge opportunity to gain freedom for their southern bretheren. A wounded broken Thailand is likely to find it very hard to defend itself if it does come under attack in this way. Thailand must remain united this will only persist if they pursue a democratic path.

[SICHONSTEVE]

It look like western people not got respect for anyone who dont like Thaksin - you Isan lady teach you very well!

It is not about liking Thaksin or Yingluck or government it about a belief that democracy is the only reliable way forward. I really don't care who wins the elections. I just want to see a fair election and the majority party or parties forming the next government.

Write and publish your manifesto and gather support by forming truly democratic parties. Democracy is about catering for the majority and still remains the best form of government. I want to see the rule of law applied fairly and equitably. I want to see Thailand rid itself of the scourge of corruption and look after all its people not just help make a wealthy elite even richer.

Thaksin and his allies have won every election since 1992 for the simple reason that their polices resonate with the rural poor who make up the majority of Thai people.

If these protesters want to gain a majority and win an election they need to come up with equivalent policies that give hope to the majority of Thai people. To do this they need to gain the trust of these same people. What is happening today in Bangkok is destroying any hope of building trust with these people. The protesters are trying to steal the election from the majority. The protesters in the main are being conned by an elite who just want to maintain their power and wealth. This elite sees democracy and any party with the support of the majority as a threat to their own well being and affluence.

These protesters are being led into a state of Fascism and oppression of the majority. It has the potential to destroy the nation. Thailand is a modern entity it could end up being a temporary state on transition to a fragmentation.

I wonder how the likes of Islamic extremists are viewing the current situation. Some of them must see this as a huge opportunity to gain freedom for their southern bretheren. A wounded broken Thailand is likely to find it very hard to defend itself if it does come under attack in this way. Thailand must remain united this will only persist if they pursue a democratic path.

Please tell me - was that long-winded piece of rubbish worth writing?? Are you bored out of your wits or something?

[citizen33]

The problem with a politicized civil service is that all the top officials have to change when the government changes. That can work if everybody understands the rules, but means that the senior civil servants are an extension of the political apparatus. This limits the ability of the civil service to build expertise and act as a check on ill-advised policies. In the Thai system many Permanent Secretaries (and other high level officials) enjoy tenure under successive administrations, and are all too supportive of the doctrine of civil service neutrality when it suits them. Dr Narong is counting on this being seen as a one-off action in an abnormal situation, but it sets a terrible precedent. Any future government not identified with the 'old money' elite is now unlikely to trust the senior officials to do their jobs.