Penalty for taking your kids out of Thailand?

[krisb]

Just curious if anyone knows what the penalty would be and what the law says if you were to try and take your children out of Thailand against the Mothers wishes?

Secondly what would happen if you made it back to your home country, or out of Thailand, can the law still do anything?

This is purely a hypothetical scenario type question.

[Dancealot]

Interesting question, Krisb. I guess the rules vary between countries. I take it you mean a European country in the hypothetical situation you made it this far...

[ToddWeston]

I assume the kids have dual nationality ? the border crossing would only be one hurdle, how would he enrol his child in school, apply for health care et al if he is unable to provide custody papers.

Thailand signed The Hague treaty in 2002, the children will be returned to the Mother after she makes a call and presents her case to the Authorities.

http://en.m.wikipedi...Child_Abduction

[nontabury]

I assume the kids have dual nationality ? the border crossing would only be one hurdle, how would he enrol his child in school, apply for health care et al if he is unable to provide custody papers.

Thailand signed The Hague treaty in 2002, the children will be returned to the Mother after she makes a call and presents her case to the Authorities.

http://en.m.wikipedi...Child_Abduction

Do all the immigrants, legal and illegal have to show custody papers etc before enrolling their children into the UK education system?.

If the mother has the ability and the knowledge to contact the UK authority, they will most certainly help and support her to regain the children. The main point will she have this knowledge.

[AngelsLariat]

Let's assume that you'd be able to get away with it. Next thing to consider is whether you really hate the mother enough to abduct her children.

[Mudcrab]

International child abduction is taken very seriously in some (a lot, non Muslim) countries, Australia in particular. When my kids were young, 5yo and 18 months, both had to have passports and were scrutinised extensively when we went overseas, even with Mum and Dad (me), both leaving Oz and entering for example the UK or Indonesia and Hong Kong. Be very careful with your hypotheticals.

[wolfmanjack]

I assume the kids have dual nationality ? the border crossing would only be one hurdle, how would he enrol his child in school, apply for health care et al if he is unable to provide custody papers.

Thailand signed The Hague treaty in 2002, the children will be returned to the Mother after she makes a call and presents her case to the Authorities.

http://en.m.wikipedi...Child_Abduction

I have enrolled my kids in school and did not need any custody papers.

[phuketrichard]

my daughter holds dual American /thai nationality and i dumped her mom years ago an got sole custody

She went to 8th grade in the states and never had to show any kind of papers showing I held sole custody ,only her class record form her international school.

Before i got sole custody i took my daughter on many trips out of the country , not sure if the mother knew or not but i didn't give a dam.

[AngelsLariat]

my daughter holds dual American /thai nationality and i dumped her mom years ago an got sole custody

She went to 8th grade in the states and never had to show any kind of papers showing I held sole custody ,only her class record form her international school.

Before i got sole custody i took my daughter on many trips out of the country , not sure if the mother knew or not but i didn't give a dam.

But in your case a court granted you sole custody. That’s how is supposed to be handled. But unfortunately there are a lot of cases in Thailand where the father, presumably believing that a Thai court would not side with him, simply takes the kids to another country figuring that the mother will never figure out how to get the kids back.

[ToddWeston]

In Canada we have very strict laws, even transporting a child out of the Province requires a signature from the parent with custody to the other parent - I know I witnessed signatures of hundreds of documents allowing one parent travel domestically & internationally.

In terms of registering at a school, perhaps a child could be enrolled without too much scrutiny but somewhere down the line surely there is a system in place, health care, government ID, passport renewal.

As for the Mother not knowing if Thailand has signed the treaty & where to turn, I'm confident once a child is taken she will go any means to try to regain the child, and the logical first step would be to contact the Police local/overseas & the second would be to contact the Embassy.

Just my opinion of course as don't know if there is abuse in the family home and how bitter the relationship is between the ex husband and wife that would drive one parent to this extreme, but clearly International law sides with the parent who has legal custody.

I also wonder if the parent who takes a child out of Thailand also runs the risk of being blacklisted from entering the Kingdom in the future?

[Mario2008]

The answer depends on several factors, like is the father the legal father or not and the other nationality.

If he is the legal father, Thailand has no parental kidnapping law, so the father does nothing wrong until a request is made for a custody order. If he has not legitimized the children or not married to the mother, it is plain and simple kidnapping with all criminal implications.

Judges generally don't like people taking matters in their own hands, so in a custody battle he will normally have a disadvantage.

The mother having access to legal aid in the other country depends on the country in question. Many western countries will offer some form of assistance, often there are also foundation and such that one can turn to for help. In addition it is also the social services of a country that can come in action.

Not to mention the negative results it ill have on their children to be taken to a strange environment and be kept away from the other parent. That can really damage children and also lead to resentment to the kidnapping parent in the future.

A Thai judge is not biased against foreigners and many have won a custody battle. A judge will make a ruling in what they perceive as the best interest of the child. The same as the parents should do.

[JesseFrank]

The new house almost finished Kris ?

This is purely a honest question.

Edited January 18, 2014 by JesseFrank

[FiftyTwo]

I know a guy from the UK who did it.

He had no problems.

[David48]

The new house almost finished Kris ?

This is purely a honest question.

Mate, not that you would have known, but just assume this.

If you were an archer, aiming for the Bullseye ... that shot fell well short of the mark.

Leave the discussion at that please ...

[phuketrichard]

my daughter holds dual American /thai nationality and i dumped her mom years ago an got sole custody

She went to 8th grade in the states and never had to show any kind of papers showing I held sole custody ,only her class record form her international school.

Before i got sole custody i took my daughter on many trips out of the country , not sure if the mother knew or not but i didn't give a dam.

But in your case a court granted you sole custody. That’s how is supposed to be handled. But unfortunately there are a lot of cases in Thailand where the father, presumably believing that a Thai court would not side with him, simply takes the kids to another country figuring that the mother will never figure out how to get the kids back.

not to mention if u don't have sole custody and papers to prove it u cant get a passport, as u need the moms signature till there 16 or 18 depending on country

Form what i experienced the thai family courts are not at all biased against Farangs an truly have the best interest of the child at heart

Edited January 18, 2014 by phuketrichard

[MILT]

Hypothetical question. Would the kids want to leave and be away from their mother? Not normally

How would they feel? Would their emotions reflect said parents emotions? Not normally

Children are not the property of the parents. They are little people and they grow up

as persons not belonging to no one.

Children come through parents not from them. Hypothetically speaking.

[Thai at Heart]

Technically you need the paper giving permission to travel. It can be requested.

Enrolling in school if the kids have papers is no issue.

[SiggiCM]

if your kids have dual citizenship and you can prove that you are the legal father, then you dont break any law, just use the passports for your kids from your home country. Nobody (even court) can not forbid travel (for example english citizen) to england. If the family name in passports are the same, there will be no problem, I got from court a clear statement, because my ex-wife ask court to forbid me to take my kids to germany, what court clear refuse, a citizen can all the time travel to his country. And in 12 years after divorce I never ever any problem at check in or passport control, even never any questions. But for sure if you want to solve this, you have to take a lawyer after arrival and go to court in your home country and try to get custody or better to get a arengment with the mother of the kids

[Ulic]

Just do the right thing and pay the mother off. Unless you have really pissed her of

it should not be that difficult or costly. They can see the benefit for there children

and the financial burden is lifted from there shoulders.

[Thai at Heart]

if your kids have dual citizenship and you can prove that you are the legal father, then you dont break any law, just use the passports for your kids from your home country. Nobody (even court) can not forbid travel (for example english citizen) to england. If the family name in passports are the same, there will be no problem, I got from court a clear statement, because my ex-wife ask court to forbid me to take my kids to germany, what court clear refuse, a citizen can all the time travel to his country. And in 12 years after divorce I never ever any problem at check in or passport control, even never any questions. But for sure if you want to solve this, you have to take a lawyer after arrival and go to court in your home country and try to get custody or better to get a arengment with the mother of the kids

Incorrect.

I was instructed by the British embassy that I should have a document from my wife to permit my.kids to travel with me alone.

Child trafficking laws. Of course this naturally becomes an issue if she makes a complaint after the fact. The odds that you get asked at the airport are slim but still possible.

[Sceptict11]

What the OP is suggesting amounts to child abduction.

A crime which is Internationally condemned.

All Mum has to do is to declare her child "missing" or "stolen" and the OP will rapidly find an International arrest warrant chasing him .

Edited January 18, 2014 by Sceptict11

[Thai at Heart]

What the OP is suggesting amounts to child abduction.

A crime which is Internationally condemned.

All Mum has to do is declare her child "missing" or "stolen" and the OP will rapidly find an International arrest warrant chasing him .

Yup

[benalibina]

Hypothetical question. Would the kids want to leave and be away from their mother? Not normally

How would they feel? Would their emotions reflect said parents emotions? Not normally

Children are not the property of the parents. They are little people and they grow up

as persons not belonging to no one.

Children come through parents not from them. Hypothetically speaking.

They are little people and they grow up as persons not belonging to no one !

Well give them then to the 1st 1 available, willing to look after them for a while till said person is bored and passes the child on to somebody else. Nice ! Hypothetically speaking ofcourse.

[Dancealot]

Technically you need the paper giving permission to travel. It can be requested.

Enrolling in school if the kids have papers is no issue.

Hypothetically spoken, if I was in this situation, I understand that in order to legally travel with your very own children the law requires a written permission from the absent parent.

In addition to this, Mario2008 mentioned above, you need to be able to proof on the spot the children belong to you.

Edited January 18, 2014 by Dancealot

[sfbandung]

if your kids have dual citizenship and you can prove that you are the legal father, then you dont break any law, just use the passports for your kids from your home country. Nobody (even court) can not forbid travel (for example english citizen) to england. If the family name in passports are the same, there will be no problem, I got from court a clear statement, because my ex-wife ask court to forbid me to take my kids to germany, what court clear refuse, a citizen can all the time travel to his country. And in 12 years after divorce I never ever any problem at check in or passport control, even never any questions. But for sure if you want to solve this, you have to take a lawyer after arrival and go to court in your home country and try to get custody or better to get a arengment with the mother of the kids

I don't know about England but you cannot get an Australian Passport issued for a minor without the express permission of both parents. In PNG I have a mixed race daughter who was entitled to citizenship by descent which I got very easily. The passport was a different matter altogether. Her mother had to attend the High Commission, they took her away and asked her loads of questions about whether I was paying her to sign the form and did she understand that it meant I could take our daughter to Australia and she would not be able to get her back to PNG.

[louse1953]

Hyphothetically,you would be locked up.

[belg]

step one: you need a permission slip from the mom to take them out : game over

[FiftyTwo]

step one: you need a permission slip from the mom to take them out : game over

How would anyone know who wrote the permission?

(They could phone the mother)

How would they know the mother was speaking on the phone number you gave them?

(a little bit of preparation goes a long way)

[benalibina]

step one: you need a permission slip from the mom to take them out : game over

How would anyone know who wrote the permission?

(They could phone the mother)

How would they know the mother was speaking on the phone number you gave them?

(a little bit of preparation goes a long way)

Conscience maybe ?

[nontabury]

step one: you need a permission slip from the mom to take them out : game over

How would anyone know who wrote the permission?

(They could phone the mother)

How would they know the mother was speaking on the phone number you gave them?

(a little bit of preparation goes a long way)

Conscience maybe ?

Maybe, it would be on your conscience if you left them with the mother. It's not always a case of the mother being the better of the two parents, "OK" I know that's what most of the children's courts in the west think, however thankfully the Thai courts have more wisdom.

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