X Friends

[jdinasia]

I went through a bad divorce with a white woman but ended up on my feet soon after with a thai woman, with a home in Thailand and happily integrated into her family. From that juncture I have lost communication with some close friends in the US and I'll be buggered if I can understand why.

After some thought I realized that my friends' wives never took to me very well...thought that as a fearless wanderer without consideration for US home or family that I am a bad influence (I later married in the UK with disasterous results). If it is true that I can move on after a divorce and live happily in Asia then their middle aged hold on their spouses (my friends) is tenuous as they are no less capable of achieving the same under whatever circumstances. When you add the allure of attractive young Asian women into the equation the threat becomes poisonous.

so, it becomes

'hey honey, I got an email from tutsi today...'

'that lowlife?...why do you stay friends with him?..he no longer respects our values...'

'how can he be a lowlife when he is supporting an extended family in Thailand, working hard, etc...'

'listen, you a-hole I don't approve an' unless you dispatch him I want a divorce...'

or variations thereof...unfortunately most of my friends in the US are constrained in such a way that venal threats are taken seriously...

Have much of an ego there? That makes you think that an e-mail from you could lead to a divorce 12000 miles away!

[game4shame]

Most people think Thailand = sex pervert, end of story. The media here is largely to blame. Gary Glitter makes front page news, even entire prime time documentaries

correct. I can't comment on the US media but the UK press thrive on negative stories.

[tutsiwarrior]

I went through a bad divorce with a white woman but ended up on my feet soon after with a thai woman, with a home in Thailand and happily integrated into her family. From that juncture I have lost communication with some close friends in the US and I'll be buggered if I can understand why.

After some thought I realized that my friends' wives never took to me very well...thought that as a fearless wanderer without consideration for US home or family that I am a bad influence (I later married in the UK with disasterous results). If it is true that I can move on after a divorce and live happily in Asia then their middle aged hold on their spouses (my friends) is tenuous as they are no less capable of achieving the same under whatever circumstances. When you add the allure of attractive young Asian women into the equation the threat becomes poisonous.

so, it becomes

'hey honey, I got an email from tutsi today...'

'that lowlife?...why do you stay friends with him?..he no longer respects our values...'

'how can he be a lowlife when he is supporting an extended family in Thailand, working hard, etc...'

'listen, you a-hole I don't approve an' unless you dispatch him I want a divorce...'

or variations thereof...unfortunately most of my friends in the US are constrained in such a way that venal threats are taken seriously...

Have much of an ego there? That makes you think that an e-mail from you could lead to a divorce 12000 miles away!

dunno...only one of a number of possible explantions why close friends would cut off contact when I did nothin' otherwise to offend...one is usually close with good friends, not an egomaniac salesman...(please note 'or variations thereof' above)

plus...divorces result from mechanisms that most of us don't understand when it comes to good friends...most of the time they cannot be foreseen...

just speculation, darling...

[GuestHouse]

I think it's true to say that Thailand attracts more than it's fair share of missfits. Thay they might blame others for their own problems should not come as too much of a surprise.

Why it matters what people a continent or more away think is beyond me.

[tutsiwarrior]

Why it matters what people a continent or more away think is beyond me.

if dats de place where your contacts/brethern/et al are located den it should be obvious to you...

(if I didn't like your avatar so much I would become abusive...)

[Tippaporn]

I think you've got a valid question, mark45y. When I tell folks in the States that I live in Thailand it seems few are very inquisitive. No interest. I can't tell you how many people here are completely confused with Thailand/Taiwan. Even after I state that I live in Thailand they continue to call it Taiwan. And the Thai language is, of course, Thaiwanese.

I believe jdinasia said it right when he mentioned that the bond commonality has been broken. Hey, you have lots of new friends now, right? Mai pen rai.

[thaibebop]

I think you've got a valid question, mark45y. When I tell folks in the States that I live in Thailand it seems few are very inquisitive. No interest. I can't tell you how many people here are completely confused with Thailand/Taiwan. Even after I state that I live in Thailand they continue to call it Taiwan. And the Thai language is, of course, Thaiwanese.

I believe jdinasia said it right when he mentioned that the bond commonality has been broken. Hey, you have lots of new friends now, right? Mai pen rai.

I am going to second Tip here and add something else. I live in Kansas City, right smack in the middle of America and the Biblebelt. Very few people here like "other" countries. When people find out I have some kind of connection to outside the States, they act funny. Can't say why, I don't ask and don't care. It might be they don't know what Thailand is, they always ask my wife at work what part of China she comes from.

I can say anything about Mark's friends but I think, that if they are Yanks then I would say it might be(if not a personnal problem between themselves with Mark) where they are from. Isolated places in American are taught to fear that which isn't White, Christian and American made.

[daleyboy]

I lost a couple of friends who i thought were friends for life, when they found out i had married a Thai woman. One said to me why did i want to marry a whore with aids? And this was a bloke who i classed as my best friend. I couldnt believe what came out of his mouth. He said that all she wanted was a visa to the uk and my money and then she would leave me, needless to say i gave him a few home truths about dating a 17 year old at the age of 28, who went to the same school as where he worked

As far as other people go, i am proud that i married a Thai lady, why should i be ashamed? Its no different in my eyes to meeting and marrying a girl from anywhere in the world. I had a comment from a thick Brit builder not so long ago. We were chatting and i said my wife was Thai and he said to me "how much did i pay for her?" To which i responded probably not as much as he has paid for his wife, added to the fact my wife is petite slim and beautiful rather than a big fat slapper. He didnt appreciate this very much, so i pointed out i didnt appreciate his comments about my wife.

Each to their own at the end of the day, anyone who doesnt like the fact that i married a Thai girl, thats their problem, not mine.

[game4shame]

One said to me why did i want to marry a whore with aids?

what a tosser.

my wife is petite slim and beautiful rather than a big fat slapper.

[LaoPo]

Each to their own at the end of the day, anyone who doesnt like the fact that i married a Thai girl, thats their problem, not mine.

In fact Daley, one shouldn't even mention the nationality of a partner, whether male or female and thus in fact it should read:

""Each to their own at the end of the day, anyone who doesnt like the fact that i married a .... girl, thats their problem, not mine. ""

Because it's nobody's business but your own and if they don't like it, they're not your friends.

Be happy with your newborn Junior and wife!

Good luck to you

LaoPo

[daleyboy]

Each to their own at the end of the day, anyone who doesnt like the fact that i married a Thai girl, thats their problem, not mine.

In fact Daley, one shouldn't even mention the nationality of a partner, whether male or female and thus in fact it should read:

""Each to their own at the end of the day, anyone who doesnt like the fact that i married a .... girl, thats their problem, not mine. ""

Because it's nobody's business but your own and if they don't like it, they're not your friends.

Be happy with your newborn Junior and wife!

Good luck to you

LaoPo

Thanks mate, yep still happy, even with the sleepless nigts and shitty nappies. only joking, it has been ALOT easier than i thought, i was scared about how bad it would be, but the little man, is great, sleeps alot, only cries when he wants a nappy change or food, other than that he is a happy little soul and if i knew all babies would be this easy i would have more, but i think we have just been very lucky. Well thats what everyone says.

And your right i shouldnt need to tell them my wifes nationality, but to me i am proud my wife is Thai, and i am happy for anyone to know it

I feel i am the luckiest man alive, i have a beautiful wife and lovely baby, and i couldnt care less what anyone thinks of my relationship, and like i said before, i have nothing to be ashamed off, but to be fair, most people i speak to are more intrigued rather than nasty. They all want to know how we met, what life is like in Thaland, how does Noi like it in the U.K, do i want to live in Thailand. And me being me, i am always happy to promote Thailand

[Minburi]

It all goes back to the dreaded word..They ASSUME.

They see a heay set(o.k maybe fat) Guy with a Thai lady hes a sexpat and the Thai female must always be a working girl. No way could it be a normal relationship. Who have been married for 8 years. Thats impossible. I never get the tourist frown here in Canada but when I go back to Thailand. They look and frown. That frown say it all. Sad little man could not find a girl from where every he is from and had to come to Thailand. And god forbid I say goodmorning. (Thats another story)

They ASSUME even when they do not know you from adam. Its very sad.

[daleyboy]

It all goes back to the dreaded word..They ASSUME.

They see a heay set(o.k maybe fat) Guy with a Thai lady hes a sexpat and the Thai female must always be a working girl. No way could it be a normal relationship. Who have been married for 8 years. Thats impossible. I never get the tourist frown here in Canada but when I go back to Thailand. They look and frown. That frown say it all. Sad little man could not find a girl from where every he is from and had to come to Thailand. And god forbid I say goodmorning. (Thats another story)

They ASSUME even when they do not know you from adam. Its very sad.

Couldnt agree more, but at the end of the day you have to think, is it worth the stares and looks? and to me it is without a doubt. I dont really notice the stares, being 6"8 and 150kgs i have had people stare at me for years so i dont notice it, but my wife sometimes says to me look they are staring, i then either give them a snide look back or if they are in earshot, a comment that is loud enough to embarress(sp) them. I know i shouldt lower myself to their level, but its the only way these people will learn.

[Youbloodybeauty]

Even after I state that I live in Thailand they continue to call it Taiwan. And the Thai language is, of course, Thaiwanese.

Yeah my brother still calls Thailand "Taiwan" after I've been married to a Thai for 15 years.

He has even been to Thailand once and still calls it Taiwan. Not sure if he is stirring or just forgets.

YBB

Edited May 21, 2006 by Youbloodybeauty

[ray23]

It was funny I have a friend and he still is, who had certianly had his fair share of problems in life worked through them, We have known each othre for over 20 years and still write. I think one of the resaons we stayed friends is helping each other in hard times. On my first trip here I hooked up with a girl who was 22 and had a great time fell in lust if nothing else. He picked me up at the airport when I headed back to the salt mines. He asked my why in the world I would travel to so far then hook up with a girl half my age. Answer BECAUSE I CAN

He never asked again

[skylar]

I can't speak for anyplace other than Southern California, where I technically come from.......

To make a long story VERY short, I was born in Indonesia, then returned to the USA at the age of 6 months, just to leave again to Saudi Arabia then Indonesia then Thailand then Philippines then Thailand, etc, etc, etc.

Those that have had this experience are called TCKs or Third Culture Kids by the professional head shrinking community. We are not like the rest of our peers.......

Mt extended family in California and Rhode Island don't know how to explain my sister and myself to other family members. My sister and I don't really care about keeping up the family airs either......

This TCK phenomenon is not a USA invention, it is actually European. They were attempting to understand why children brought up out of country were so different from the locals.

They found that despite the local social customs, TCK's were non racial, were able to marry outside their culture etc...... in other words were better International Citizens.

Face it...... your home country doesn't have a clue as to what your adopted country is all about.

Face it...... your friends from your home country are probably envious of your ability to adapt and have a productive life away from them...........

Be proud that you have adapted, that you feel all right in a foreign country, and understand that with education even some of your critics in your home country will be here in Thailand, given the opportunity.

From one TCK to another - thanks for your post. It's much appreciated. The TCK community is frequently described by non-TCK members of this forum as 'spoilt' (whatever this description is meant to imply), whereas the wider benefits of being a TCK is underappreciated due to a lack of exposure and misunderstanding.

[mark45y]

A couple of brief notes. The reason behind the post was to get a feeling about how Western people perceived Thailand. A friend asked me about the practicality of setting up a retirement center in Thailand. The big minus is the absence of Medicare health insurance. What potentially would outweigh that is the low price and high quality of medical treatment here. But that is a complex issue, one I am very familiar with and I did not want to really discuss it here. What I was concerned about was how to market the project in the States. If the vast amount of public opinion about Thailand is negative then it would be a lost cause. I didn’t know if my personal experience was common.

One of the posters mentioned people who relocate here are cut from a different cloth. I imagine that to be true.

Anyone who has owned a business in the States dealing with minimum wage employees, nurses aids and nurses knows what a paradise Thailand is, especially Northern Thailand.

Since it is raining outside and I have nothing better to do I will tell you a couple of stories.

Attached to my high class retirement/resort center for rich old people in the US was a nursing home to take care of them in medical emergencies and when recuperating from hospital procedures.

Since I supplied the food to both places I would visit the residents if they went to the nursing home side for recuperation.

Sam was a favorite of mine. He was the president of five universities, advisor to three US presidents, holder of 18 advanced degrees and at 80 still dated movie stars. Arriving at his room I asked, “how’s it going Sam?” he told me he couldn’t get a lobster on this darn side of the facility.

I went back to the kitchen and cooked Sam up a Maine lobster and brought it back to him and he was happy. Then I cut into the nurses. “Do you know this old guy has saved the entire Western world on three occasions that I know of, he still chats with the White House on a weekly basis and you can’t get off of your fat asses for five minutes to wander over to the main kitchen and pick him up a lobster!!!! They couldn’t be bothered.

On another occasion I saw three nurses with a dead guy trying to hold him on a scale to get his weight. Visualize this for a minute. Three two hundred pound nurses holding up a guy who is going stiff on a scale. Upon inquiring why I was told each of the patients have to be weighed once a week according to state regulations and he had died before they weighed him.

Thailand may be third world but check into a first class hospital here to see service INMHO.

It is too bad that people in the States are hung up on the negatives of Thailand because I think the plusses outweigh the minuses on a grand scale.

I still think there is room here for a retirement center for rich old guys. I will just have to figure out how to make it Play in Poughkeepsie

[Tippaporn]

It might be they don't know what Thailand is, they always ask my wife at work what part of China she comes from.

That about says it Bops. I think to a lot of Americans all orientals are Chinese. Most certainly can't tell the difference between the Far East nationalities. All have "slanty" eyes, derogatorily, (I prefer the term almond-shaped) so same same to them.

<snip> One said to me why did i want to marry a whore with aids? <snip> We were chatting and i said my wife was Thai and he said to me "how much did i pay for her?" <snip>

Those are pretty brutal comments, Dale. I'm surprised you didn't turn their lights out. Of course their bulbs aren't shining to brightly to begin with.

. . . being 6"8 and 150kgs . . .

Geezus, mate, no wonder you complain about the weather in Blighty. Your head must always be in the clouds. I'm gonna have to rent a pair os stilts when I meet you.

[HarryHerb]

Western prejudice about Thailand is always going to be there. But if you're talking about setting up a retirement home here, sounds like every old man's fantasy! Most old guys know better than to give two hoots what their friends (who are still alive) think - and why should they care about their younger relatives? They're the ones packing them off to a home in the first place.

[Nawtilus]

My missus was quick to pick up on differences between Thai culture and overseas cultures. She managed to think for herself a bit and pick the good things from each.

One day when walking down the street in my home country late at night, a bunch of young bucks crossed the road near us and were oggling the missus, as they passed one yelled 'how much did you pay for her' and before I even had the chance to turn around my missus spun around and yelled in perfect english with a hint of alcohol 'not as much as your father paid for your mother'.

I could do nothing but laugh.

[Tippaporn]

My missus was quick to pick up on differences between Thai culture and overseas cultures. She managed to think for herself a bit and pick the good things from each.

One day when walking down the street in my home country late at night, a bunch of young bucks crossed the road near us and were oggling the missus, as they passed one yelled 'how much did you pay for her' and before I even had the chance to turn around my missus spun around and yelled in perfect english with a hint of alcohol 'not as much as your father paid for your mother'.

I could do nothing but laugh.

[thai3]

I have a Mia and a couple of Mia noi’s and life is good.

I have never struck a woman in my life or cheated an employee.

Why do people in the West think I am some kind of devil.

Sounds like you are in thailand mainly for the sex, you boast about cheating on your wife but never cheating an employee. Looks like you have your priorities mixed up there. Of course adultereers always have an an explanation, my wife has gone off sex/understands/open marriage etc etc, they are never in the wrong.

Maybe your mysoginism in treating employees with more respect than your wife has something to do with your devil status.

Edited May 21, 2006 by thai3

[Youbloodybeauty]

I have a Mia and a couple of Mia noi’s and life is good.

I have never struck a woman in my life or cheated an employee.

Why do people in the West think I am some kind of devil.

Sounds like you are in thailand mainly for the sex, you boast about cheating on your wife but never cheating an employee. Looks like you have your priorities mixed up there. Of course adultereers always have an an explanation, my wife has gome off sex/understands/open marriage etc etc, they are never in the wrong.

Maybe your mysoginism in treating employees with more respect than your wife has something to do with your devil status.

Cheating? Settle down!

"and a couple of Mia noi’s" = Mia's kids I bet!

[mark45y]

I have a Mia and a couple of Mia noi’s and life is good.

I have never struck a woman in my life or cheated an employee.

Why do people in the West think I am some kind of devil.

Sounds like you are in thailand mainly for the sex, you boast about cheating on your wife but never cheating an employee. Looks like you have your priorities mixed up there. Of course adultereers always have an an explanation, my wife has gome off sex/understands/open marriage etc etc, they are never in the wrong.

Maybe your mysoginism in treating employees with more respect than your wife has something to do with your devil status.

Cheating? Settle down!

"and a couple of Mia noi’s" = Mia's kids I bet!

I know there are people who come to Thailand for love. I did not.

I know there are people who think Thai women can love a man in the same sense as it is perceived in Western fairy tales. I am not one of those people.

I think most Thai women love and respect their parents and love their children. Not all in my experience but most.

Given a Thai lady feels secure and her family is secure she sees little wrong in her husband or significant other having a couple of other women. Although outlawed in 1932 estimates suggest 30 % of men in Thailand have multiple wives. It is common in Thailand to have Mia nois and most Mia nois are college graduates. I understand 55% of Thai men plan on having multiple wives at the time of their first marriage.

Arranged marriages or marriages suggested by parents are common in Thailand. These are cultural values and a part of the moral landscape of Thailand. Love is not quite the same in Korat as Topeka. Marriage is more important here than love. I think there are numerous reasons for this which I won’t go into but I find it a more orderly society as a result of the increased family stability.

When you imply cheating makes me somehow less moral or a rouge you are displaying ignorance of Thai culture or judging me by your Western values.

Far from being misogynistic I like the company of women and prefer it over the company of men. I don’t go out drinking with my mates I go to a movie with my Mia noi.

I was not boasting about sex I was giving some information about normal sexual behavior which is culturally acceptable here and makes Thailand attractive to men.

Not all men to be sure. Some men move here and retain their Western values. Some men move here and refuse to speak the language or eat the food or in a thousand other ways retain their Western culture.

I was also wondering if I would be demonized for exhibiting behavior which is perfectly acceptable by Thai standards.

Cheating would imply I am hiding something. I am not hiding anything. Everyone knows everybody else.

Discreet? Of course, but not lying or hiding anything.

I am not saying you are wrong or somehow your culture is inferior to Thai culture. I don’t even take offence to your remarks about me.

I would suggest that when in Rome you not criticize Roman culture or judge me by your values.

I moved to Colorado because I liked the mountains.

I moved to Seattle because I liked Puget Sound, the surrounding area and the sailing and skiing.

National treasures. No one criticized me for that.

I moved to Thailand because I liked the women and the cultural traditions that preserved their femininity and made them available to me.

A national treasure to be sure.

I didn’t move to Korea or Japan because of the ethnocentrism that is rampant there.

I am old fashioned. I am the first to admit it. What I think is feminine is not what a 30 or 40 year old Western man would probably think is feminine.

I really don’t think there is a need to debate that point. I am not slagging anyone or any group of people.

I think it is a combination of things that makes Thailand an ideal place for older Western men.

I am not telling anyone my point of view is better nor am I telling anyone to change their ways. I just wondered if a lot of Western people perceived Thailand as a bad place without really having any actual experience here.

I also think before you all pass judgment you have to know each relationship has trade offs.

1. She can go anywhere for as long as she wants in Thailand, Laos or Cambodia and I pay for it.

2. She can buy any clothes or shoes that she wants.

3. She can take any courses that she wants to take.

4. She can eat or drink anything she wants any time she wants either at home or out.

5. I have never called her to ask where she is or what time she is coming home.

6. She will never have to work.

7. She can go to they gym and spa whenever she wants.

8. She can have any friends over and stay as long as they like.

9 If she wants another man it is OK with me as long as she is honest and safe about it. Same rules apply to me only she gets to pick the women ( I really didn‘t want to mention that because her taste is not quite the same as mine but all in all it works out).

10. She gets the remote control.

PS No, no kids had a vasectomy 20 years ago.

[ray23]

10. She gets the remote control.

ERM!!!!!! What up wid dat

There are limits in any reltionship

[jdinasia]

mark45 ------ care to cite your source for your statistics?

then care to tell us how by your own overly inflated statistics that 30% of married men have "mia nois"? Leads you to these conclusions (way over inflated ......)

Then ... care to tell us about ducks, penis', and pinking shears?

Edited May 21, 2006 by jdinasia

[mark45y]

mark45 ------ care to cite your source for your statistics?

then care to tell us how by your own overly inflated statistics that 30% of married men have "mia nois"? Leads you to these conclusions (way over inflated ......)

Then ... care to tell us about ducks, penis', and pinking shears?

Google bigamy laws and you will find them.

What I surprising is that you would question my statistics.

Do you know five Thai males and five Thai females?

If you do try this.

Ask them out of ten hi so Thai males how many have Mia nois?

Five females said an average of three.

Five males said an average of five.

If everybody did this we might actually have some good data.

Edited May 21, 2006 by mark45y

[stumonster]

Then ... care to tell us about ducks, penis', and pinking shears?

....and western perceptions of Thailand .........

[thaibebop]

Even after I state that I live in Thailand they continue to call it Taiwan. And the Thai language is, of course, Thaiwanese.

Yeah my brother still calls Thailand "Taiwan" after I've been married to a Thai for 15 years.

He has even been to Thailand once and still calls it Taiwan. Not sure if he is stirring or just forgets.

YBB

I have family members (father and eveyone else) who, after five years of being married to my wife, still think she is from Taiwan. One even asked last x-mas party if they speak Taiwanese in Thailand. Well, at least they got the counrty right this time. I know they aren't trying to poke fun, they're just stupid.

[Johpa]

I don’t understand something. I think I am a pretty normal guy. I am 60 retired with a small nest egg and a couple of small businesses in Thailand. I have a Mia and a couple of Mia noi’s and life is good. I like where I live and I like the climate in the North. I have a view of the mountains and I feel good most days.

I do all of this for about what I used to pay my head dishwasher at my restaurant in the States.

I’m not a lech or a pervert. I don’t go out with women under 20.

I have never struck a woman in my life or cheated an employee.

I pay my own way cheerfully.

Why do people in the West think I am some kind of devil.

So what is the problem here? You are 60, you have a wife and several concubines and still play around with women the age of your peer's grand daughters, and people say, "Mark, you old devil, you!"

I for one am jealous. I want to be like you when I grow up and have people say the same thing to me.