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Posted

When you are in an environment where cheating, stealing and lying are endemic, particularly by those in authority, local politicians, local govt officials, business owners, it is a very small step to act in an equally selfish manner.

Societies are precisely that. People within a society or group tend to copy each other's behaviour. Nobody picks up litter so little Johnny grows up learning not to pick up litter. Johnny's uncle walks past a man hitting his wife, little Johnny learns not to interfere in domestics. Johnny's older brother hits a car with with his motorbike and quickly flees, Johnny learns to do a runner.

congratulations finally some one who gets it! well done mate from the bottom of my heart

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Posted
Not my business tongue.png ... but why does the OP want to retire in a country he barely knows from experience?

That's why I chose to post first before making the jump tongue.png

Good you did...some of us forget TV is about helping each other, not our own personal world. Sorry if we seem sarcastuc, negative, etc. some times.

Posted

Not my business tongue.png ... but why does the OP want to retire in a country he barely knows from experience?

That's why I chose to post first before making the jump tongue.png

Go and see for yourself. No need to make the decision while still in your home country. Take your time, rent a cheap apartment on a month by month basis and take trips all over to find your favorite places.

Some good advice if I make the move, thanks.

Posted

Not my business tongue.png ... but why does the OP want to retire in a country he barely knows from experience?

That's why I chose to post first before making the jump tongue.png

Good you did...some of us forget TV is about helping each other, not our own personal world. Sorry if we seem sarcastuc, negative, etc. some times.

I don't feel the sarcasim. What I do see here is that no one is afraid to tell it how it is according to their own experiences good or bad, and that is a great thing. No moderators bullying them in any sort of way. I think it's wonderful that freedom of expression is alive and well here.

  • Like 1
Posted

Not my business tongue.png ... but why does the OP want to retire in a country he barely knows from experience?

That's why I chose to post first before making the jump tongue.png

Good you did...some of us forget TV is about helping each other, not our own personal world. Sorry if we seem sarcastuc, negative, etc. some times.

I don't feel the sarcasim. What I do see here is that no one is afraid to tell it how it is according to their own experiences good or bad, and that is a great thing. No moderators bullying them in any sort of way. I think it's wonderful that freedom of expression is alive and well here.

Don't be put off Thailand by the article.

Yes, Thai people are selfish, self-centered, and yes, Thai society is harsh.

But I think that harshness is what one gets when western-style safeguards, such as welfare, are not present in a system.

The saying "a fool and his money" could not be any more true than in Thailand.

Before moving here for good, I suggest doing a one year trial.

Posted

Some anecdotes..........

The Public Telephone Booth

I was walking along one of crowded Bangkok’s major roads. A woman of about 30 was walking towards me and we were both approaching a telephone booth, from opposite directions, of course.

We were aware of each others presence, for our eyes had met. She reached the booth about a metre ahead of me and I manoeuvered a little to allow her to pass me. Suddenly I slammed into the glass door of the telephone booth which she had suddenly pulled open in front of me.

In spite of knowing I was approaching she continued to do what she intended to do simply because I did not matter to her. I was not in one of her first two circles.

There was no apology or query as to my well being. She just picked up the phone and began dialing.

The Bank Door

On another occasion I was approaching a big glass door into the Bangkok Bank head office. I could see an elegant and expensively dressed lady was about to exit as I was entering. We had seen each other. I hastened a few steps so I could hold the door for her as a gentleman should.

I pulled open the door towards me and stood to one side for her to exit which she did.

But she did so without so much as a glance in my direction, a nod of gratitude or a thank you. Why should she bother with courtesy to somebody not remotely inside her first two circles?

This was from a Thai, who are supposed to be world renowned for their politeness, friendliness and smiles.

Another Day at the Bank

I had shifted to a new apartment and was now living quite close to the head office of my bank. So I went there to inform them of my change of address and to move my account to the head office branch.

“Just go up the escalator and turn right,” said a bank employee, standing at the ready to assist customers. I did so and there I was told to go back down and walk behind the escalators to another office.

That office had about 30 desks, all numbered. I did not know which desk to go to. A lady in bank uniform walked past me and I told her what I wanted to do and asked where to go. She said desk number 20. At desk number 20 there was nobody waiting, which is unusual for any Thai office. The lady there told me I had to get a numbered ticket to join the queue, but there was no queue. There was nobody waiting. Why could she not just serve me? Arriving back at the ticket dispensing machine I found a girl standing there waiting to press the button for customers. She asked me what I wanted to do and I told her I just needed a ticket for desk 20. She insisted on knowing what my business was before she would press the button. So I told her and she said I cannot change my address at this branch or move my account here. I would have to open a new account and then go back to the branch where I opened the account and close the old one, or, if I wanted to keep it, then inform them of my change of address. She refused to press the button and give me a number.

I was becoming very frustrated.

I began to walk out of the bank. I was not savouring the prospect of an hour in the heat and crowds to get to my old branch just to do such a simple thing which you can do in probably any other bank in the world.

Just near the exit door I noticed a large office with many important looking people dressed in suits, who looked like they would be helpful. I entered and approached one man and told him my problem. “Of course you can do that here,” he said, “Come with me.” We arrived back at the ticket machine whereupon an argument ensued between the ticket girl and the suited man. He won and I got my ticket to desk 20.

The desk 20 lady asked me what I wanted and when I told her she said, “You cannot do that at this branch. You have to do it at your own branch.”

At this point I displayed some annoyance, which one must never do in this country if you wish to achieve anything. I explained how many different people had told me different things and sent me to so many areas of the bank.

“Oh all right then,” she said with much annoyance, thrusting a paper into my hand. “Fill this out and we can change your address.”

I had spoken to so many people, spent one hour of my time and achieved only half of what would have been such a simple transaction in Australia or indeed any other Western country.

  • Like 1
Posted

Of course it is a generalization but probably accurate for a good percentage of Thais. coffee1.gif

Posted

I sometimes just cannot stand the constant whining of these moral inventory takers who constantly comment negatively on the quality of Thai civilization, morals, food, manners, whatever, just as long as it is negative.

The bottom line is and always will be…..It is none of your business , you are GUESTS in this country, don’t like it then please go home and take your mean spirited, unwanted and often jaded opinions with you. I doubt you will be any happier where you came from.

I happen to like Thailand, I like most Thais, I have been married to one for 25 years, I have Thai children, I speak Thai, I eat Thai food that I don’t really like because my Thai wife cooks it for me because she cares about me. I go to a Buddhist temple and try to get my own PERSONAL life in order, I don’t try and fix SOMEONE else’s’ life, it is not my job.

I would love to just once in awhile read something positive about the experiences of these often seemingly morally dissolute people who can only criticize Thailand.

Sorry but it gets boring listening to the children complain.

thats all well and good,but you have to admit as with any country it is not perfect and that there are aspects that can grate,i like Thailand most of the time but,like other places i have lived some things can annoy you,i say this also about the country of my birth[uk],and Australia where i lived for 15 years,also,other places,i think anyone has to realise there is no Utopia, anywhere,but weigh the pros and cons in every country.

Posted

Dude also just remember if you have a thai wife or gf,you are on a list of who she cares about,ie,family,;mother ,father,siblings,children,cousins,cousins of cousins,aunties,uncles,friends and possibly the dog will all come before you falang,and this only when you have "tang",no tang ,bye bye.

Posted

Why don't Thais move over for emergency vehicles? Haven't many people here had friends, relatives or spouses in an ambulance before and know its best to move over? If the poster has some truths I guess the Thai mentality is " It's not my wife possibly dying in the ambulance blaring in back of me". But it could be someone they know. I've traveled a lot but witness it here every week from my balcony during traffic and have not seen it in other countries.

Havent seen kerbs higher then here anywhere in the world

GO TO SPAIN PAL

High kerbs try Broken hill ,australia,or broken ankle as some call it.

Posted

It's pretty accurate as a generalization.

It's a fantastic place to live but you must learn and accept the rules. They are complex and very selfish towards their own culture. I wish I could say the same about UK I might even still want to live there had we taken care of our own culture.

Posted (edited)

Dude also just remember if you have a thai wife or gf,you are on a list of who she cares about,ie,family,;mother ,father,siblings,children,cousins,cousins of cousins,aunties,uncles,friends and possibly the dog will all come before you falang,and this only when you have "tang",no tang ,bye bye.

Well, we have been married over 10 years now. She's a good woman, cooks and cares for me, so I can't really complain. Yes, we have had our problems and it has taken years to iron out and there are cultural differences that I am sure I will never understand, but I accept that. She often tells me....."you crazy" and I always reply....."no, you crazy" biggrin.png

Edited by dude123
Posted

Some anecdotes..........

The Public Telephone Booth

I was walking along one of crowded Bangkok’s major roads. A woman of about 30 was walking towards me and we were both approaching a telephone booth, from opposite directions, of course.

We were aware of each others presence, for our eyes had met. She reached the booth about a metre ahead of me and I manoeuvered a little to allow her to pass me. Suddenly I slammed into the glass door of the telephone booth which she had suddenly pulled open in front of me.

In spite of knowing I was approaching she continued to do what she intended to do simply because I did not matter to her. I was not in one of her first two circles.

There was no apology or query as to my well being. She just picked up the phone and began dialing.

The Bank Door

On another occasion I was approaching a big glass door into the Bangkok Bank head office. I could see an elegant and expensively dressed lady was about to exit as I was entering. We had seen each other. I hastened a few steps so I could hold the door for her as a gentleman should.

I pulled open the door towards me and stood to one side for her to exit which she did.

But she did so without so much as a glance in my direction, a nod of gratitude or a thank you. Why should she bother with courtesy to somebody not remotely inside her first two circles?

This was from a Thai, who are supposed to be world renowned for their politeness, friendliness and smiles.

Another Day at the Bank

I had shifted to a new apartment and was now living quite close to the head office of my bank. So I went there to inform them of my change of address and to move my account to the head office branch.

“Just go up the escalator and turn right,” said a bank employee, standing at the ready to assist customers. I did so and there I was told to go back down and walk behind the escalators to another office.

That office had about 30 desks, all numbered. I did not know which desk to go to. A lady in bank uniform walked past me and I told her what I wanted to do and asked where to go. She said desk number 20. At desk number 20 there was nobody waiting, which is unusual for any Thai office. The lady there told me I had to get a numbered ticket to join the queue, but there was no queue. There was nobody waiting. Why could she not just serve me? Arriving back at the ticket dispensing machine I found a girl standing there waiting to press the button for customers. She asked me what I wanted to do and I told her I just needed a ticket for desk 20. She insisted on knowing what my business was before she would press the button. So I told her and she said I cannot change my address at this branch or move my account here. I would have to open a new account and then go back to the branch where I opened the account and close the old one, or, if I wanted to keep it, then inform them of my change of address. She refused to press the button and give me a number.

I was becoming very frustrated.

I began to walk out of the bank. I was not savouring the prospect of an hour in the heat and crowds to get to my old branch just to do such a simple thing which you can do in probably any other bank in the world.

Just near the exit door I noticed a large office with many important looking people dressed in suits, who looked like they would be helpful. I entered and approached one man and told him my problem. “Of course you can do that here,” he said, “Come with me.” We arrived back at the ticket machine whereupon an argument ensued between the ticket girl and the suited man. He won and I got my ticket to desk 20.

The desk 20 lady asked me what I wanted and when I told her she said, “You cannot do that at this branch. You have to do it at your own branch.”

At this point I displayed some annoyance, which one must never do in this country if you wish to achieve anything. I explained how many different people had told me different things and sent me to so many areas of the bank.

“Oh all right then,” she said with much annoyance, thrusting a paper into my hand. “Fill this out and we can change your address.”

I had spoken to so many people, spent one hour of my time and achieved only half of what would have been such a simple transaction in Australia or indeed any other Western country.

Another good post Trentham! I have experienced everything that you have written above, and these types of things are more the rule than the exception. Your story of "another day at the bank" is something that happens to me every single time that I have an encounter with a sales clerk or any other employee in a bank, restaurant, etc.

Recently, I walked up to a teller at my bank, KTB, and presented her with a 1000 baht bill and asked her to change it for five 100's and ten 50's in bills...pointing to the bills in my other hand. I even slipped her a note that had written 5 - 100's and 10 - 50's. She left her position and returned a few minutes later and handed me a huge plastic bag filled with coins...one hundred 5 baht coins and fifty 10 baht coins. I didn't know whether to s**t or go blind! This is not a case of "a language barrier". I can play a pretty good game of charades, but her response to my request was nothing short of sheer stupidity. What on earth did she think I was going to do with all those coins? In all her years as a teller, how many farangs have walked up to her window and asked for 1000 baht in coins? Did she think that I was a gambler and there was a hidden slot machine somewhere around the corner of the building?

The experience above is not a one off. This sort of thing happens to me on a regular basis and after 4 years of it I'm just about at my wits end.

  • Like 2
Posted

If his view of Thai people is like this, why does he live here? Nope, paradise it is not....people are flawed, all of us are.

Of course, the West is perfect.cheesy.gif.pagespeed.ce.HaOxm9--Zv.gif alt=cheesy.gif pagespeed_url_hash=3951237149 width=32 height=20>

Of course the West is not perfect. I don't think anyone made a statement saying it is perfect over here, but maybe some of us take too much for granted, that's all. I love Canada, but as one gets older, the Winters can surely beat you down enough to have thoughts about moving elsewhere. My first choice was always Australia as I hold dual citizenship, but like Canada, Australia is not very cheap to retire in, that is why so many of us think of destinations such as Thailand, and since my Wife is Thai, it's worth looking into.

Dude i am not clear on this did you meet your wife in Canada or Aus,you have to realise if you come here and live near her family,it will be totally,different,you will be asked for loans,half the family will be at your house most days,lounging around eating and gibbering on,if you build a house you may well find your wife mother and father being moved in as they get older,various family members will be cooking in your kitchen,wandering around inside and outside the house,i know this is my life,better to live at least 200k away,or you will find you are really just a source of funds,i am sorry to sound negative,but thats my expierience,give an inch they take a mile,luckily i have my own area,which they dare not enter,but really its almost immpossible to get across western notions of space and privacy,Thais hate being alone,they dont sit and reflect on things but just feel lonely,every time my wife goes out in the car she CANNOT go on her own,and lastly whatever you do DO NOT BUY A KARAOKE MACHINE!

  • Like 1
Posted

Very good article and very accurate. I remember when I was new and completely enamoured with everything Thai and the people were so nice. Then reality began to settle in and I began to realize that all my Thai "friends" were only there when they were getting something from me...as soon as I served no purpose in their life they were gone, every single one of them! I still like it here but the rose coloured glasses have shattered. I am no longer interested in having any Thai friends. I have a good Thai wife and enjoy her extended family; that's all I need.

The people saying the article is too negative are just afraid of reality, stubbornly refusing to removed the rose coloured glasses. Just keep fooling yourselves!

prime example of my post, where else have you lived, apart from the UK?

I don't understand how you can take issue with my post. I am simply reporting my experience in Thailand. You don't have to like it but it's true.

Yes, completely subjective, but I was asking what experience you had outside of Thailand and UK?

I've been travelling the world for 30 years but I don't see how that is relevant to Thais being selfish. Wouldn't it be relevant how much Thais have traveled?

Posted
She often tells me....."you crazy". I reply....."no, you crazy" xbiggrin.png.pagespeed.ic.zYprVTCWT1.web

The long, winter evenings must just fly by at your house......

Oh yeah, no boring nights around here! No, she's a gem and we do joke a lot.

Posted

Some anecdotes..........

The Public Telephone Booth

I was walking along one of crowded Bangkok’s major roads. A woman of about 30 was walking towards me and we were both approaching a telephone booth, from opposite directions, of course.

We were aware of each others presence, for our eyes had met. She reached the booth about a metre ahead of me and I manoeuvered a little to allow her to pass me. Suddenly I slammed into the glass door of the telephone booth which she had suddenly pulled open in front of me.

In spite of knowing I was approaching she continued to do what she intended to do simply because I did not matter to her. I was not in one of her first two circles.

There was no apology or query as to my well being. She just picked up the phone and began dialing.

The Bank Door

On another occasion I was approaching a big glass door into the Bangkok Bank head office. I could see an elegant and expensively dressed lady was about to exit as I was entering. We had seen each other. I hastened a few steps so I could hold the door for her as a gentleman should.

I pulled open the door towards me and stood to one side for her to exit which she did.

But she did so without so much as a glance in my direction, a nod of gratitude or a thank you. Why should she bother with courtesy to somebody not remotely inside her first two circles?

This was from a Thai, who are supposed to be world renowned for their politeness, friendliness and smiles.

Another Day at the Bank

I had shifted to a new apartment and was now living quite close to the head office of my bank. So I went there to inform them of my change of address and to move my account to the head office branch.

“Just go up the escalator and turn right,” said a bank employee, standing at the ready to assist customers. I did so and there I was told to go back down and walk behind the escalators to another office.

That office had about 30 desks, all numbered. I did not know which desk to go to. A lady in bank uniform walked past me and I told her what I wanted to do and asked where to go. She said desk number 20. At desk number 20 there was nobody waiting, which is unusual for any Thai office. The lady there told me I had to get a numbered ticket to join the queue, but there was no queue. There was nobody waiting. Why could she not just serve me? Arriving back at the ticket dispensing machine I found a girl standing there waiting to press the button for customers. She asked me what I wanted to do and I told her I just needed a ticket for desk 20. She insisted on knowing what my business was before she would press the button. So I told her and she said I cannot change my address at this branch or move my account here. I would have to open a new account and then go back to the branch where I opened the account and close the old one, or, if I wanted to keep it, then inform them of my change of address. She refused to press the button and give me a number.

I was becoming very frustrated.

I began to walk out of the bank. I was not savouring the prospect of an hour in the heat and crowds to get to my old branch just to do such a simple thing which you can do in probably any other bank in the world.

Just near the exit door I noticed a large office with many important looking people dressed in suits, who looked like they would be helpful. I entered and approached one man and told him my problem. “Of course you can do that here,” he said, “Come with me.” We arrived back at the ticket machine whereupon an argument ensued between the ticket girl and the suited man. He won and I got my ticket to desk 20.

The desk 20 lady asked me what I wanted and when I told her she said, “You cannot do that at this branch. You have to do it at your own branch.”

At this point I displayed some annoyance, which one must never do in this country if you wish to achieve anything. I explained how many different people had told me different things and sent me to so many areas of the bank.

“Oh all right then,” she said with much annoyance, thrusting a paper into my hand. “Fill this out and we can change your address.”

I had spoken to so many people, spent one hour of my time and achieved only half of what would have been such a simple transaction in Australia or indeed any other Western country.

Another good post Trentham! I have experienced everything that you have written above, and these types of things are more the rule than the exception. Your story of "another day at the bank" is something that happens to me every single time that I have an encounter with a sales clerk or any other employee in a bank, restaurant, etc.

Recently, I walked up to a teller at my bank, KTB, and presented her with a 1000 baht bill and asked her to change it for five 100's and ten 50's in bills...pointing to the bills in my other hand. I even slipped her a note that had written 5 - 100's and 10 - 50's. She left her position and returned a few minutes later and handed me a huge plastic bag filled with coins...one hundred 5 baht coins and fifty 10 baht coins. I didn't know whether to s**t or go blind! This is not a case of "a language barrier". I can play a pretty good game of charades, but her response to my request was nothing short of sheer stupidity. What on earth did she think I was going to do with all those coins? In all her years as a teller, how many farangs have walked up to her window and asked for 1000 baht in coins? Did she think that I was a gambler and there was a hidden slot machine somewhere around the corner of the building?

The experience above is not a one off. This sort of thing happens to me on a regular basis and after 4 years of it I'm just about at my wits end.

have to say my local krung thai bank in Wichianburi is excellent,always helpfull,and even got me accounts with interest,two ladies speak good english,and one day i even got to meet and chat with the manager,which left my wife almost speechless,of course i do have a good size wad in there,and always dress well when i go,oh and shave,and apply deoderant,this can help smooth the path.

Posted
She often tells me....."you crazy". I reply....."no, you crazy" xbiggrin.png.pagespeed.ic.zYprVTCWT1.web

The long, winter evenings must just fly by at your house......

Oh yeah, no boring nights around here! No, she's a gem and we do joke a lot.

Apologies dude, couldn't resist it....

Posted (edited)

Dude i am not clear on this did you meet your wife in Canada or Aus,you have to realise if you come here and live near her family,it will be totally,different,you will be asked for loans,half the family will be at your house most days,lounging around eating and gibbering on,if you build a house you may well find your wife mother and father being moved in as they get older,various family members will be cooking in your kitchen,wandering around inside and outside the house,i know this is my life,better to live at least 200k away,or you will find you are really just a source of funds,i am sorry to sound negative,but thats my expierience,give an inch they take a mile,luckily i have my own area,which they dare not enter,but really its almost immpossible to get across western notions of space and privacy,Thais hate being alone,they dont sit and reflect on things but just feel lonely,every time my wife goes out in the car she CANNOT go on her own,and lastly whatever you do DO NOT BUY A KARAOKE MACHINE!

Seriously, that is too funny as she convinced me to buy a Karaoke machine as soon as we married Of course I went right away to Costco and purchased a fine one. Biggest mistake I ever made lol.

I met her in Canada 14 years ago. Her mum and dad passed away a long long time ago. She did mention though that if we live in Thailand, that she would love for her two sisters to live with us. I'm not sure how well that could work though as I need a little space to myself.

Edited by dude123
Posted
She often tells me....."you crazy". I reply....."no, you crazy" xbiggrin.png.pagespeed.ic.zYprVTCWT1.web

The long, winter evenings must just fly by at your house......

Oh yeah, no boring nights around here! No, she's a gem and we do joke a lot.

Apologies dude, couldn't resist it....

Hey, no problem. I'm always in for a good joke and your line just cracked me up.

Posted

As my name implies, I am happy to be retired in this country and have now been here for 10 years. I am not regarded as a gullible person but I have been persuaded on seven occasions whilst here to make loans to various Thais of amounts varying from 4000 bahts to 170000 bahts, for reasons such as University fees, a daughter's urgent hospitalization, vehicle accident repairs, and starting a new business In one instance, 9 years ago, having paid almost 3 million bahts to a builder for excellent work on my home, I lent him 70000 bahts, supposedly for one month, to help him start his next job with a new customer. Despite the fact that he and I were good friends, sometimes dining with his wife at my home or at a local restaurant, I was never able to obtain repayment of the loan from him or indeed from any of the others, except just one who eventually repaid his loan of just 4000 bahts four months late, after being pressured to do so.

In each case, excellent reasons were given for requiring the loans, with my Thai wife at the time backing their claims, which, not surprisingly, often involved relatives of hers. In the 62 years that I lived in the UK, I can honestly say that the very few loans that I made there were always repaid in full, even though the repayment agreement was always verbal. The unfortunate outcome of all this is that I now refuse to lend any money nowadays because I distrust the reasons given for the request and am almost sure that I will never see the money again. Even so, I often feel guilty at making the refusal.

That's quite interesting. So it seems keeping up the guard is important around there.

Posted

I think the observations by Bart Walters goes for all Asians, its just different from the west.

And regarding Buddhism, don't ever make the mistake to think that people actually understands or cares about the Buddhist core philosophy (just like most Christians don't have a clue about the christian philosophy, even if they read the bible every day, Former president Bush a good example). If Buddha himself could see today what people are doing in his name he would cry. Praying in front of statues of himself is exactly the kind of thing that would disgust him.

Enlightened beings have compassion but they do not feel negative emotions such as "disgust".

The important point is perhaps to see things but not react in a negative way. Two wrongs have never made a right.

Your full of crap!

Posted

Well to generalise about an entire nation is a bit of a stretch. I also think people see what they want to see when faced the complexity of 60 million people. Perhaps the characteristics people see are reflection of their own views and prejudices on the many people they interact with. I do not see the same Thailand in most of the interactions I have with Thai people. Perhaps the author is a bit of grumpy sod and so that's what he sees. I have seen some selfish people - especially related to politics - but most people I've met in my 6 years of living and 20 years of visiting Thailand have been decent, caring people. Sent from my C6902 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Generalising?

I have lived here for years, drive many miles on the roads each day, in all that time I have never seen a Thai person pull over to let an ambulance past, they simply don't care about anything that does not have an immediate effect on them.

I have however lost count of the times I have seen Thai's block the path of an ambulance answering a call.

That is not generalising, that is pure fact!

Say's who.Back that up with data.

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