EC takes poll row to court

[webfact]

POLITICS
EC takes poll row to court
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- The Election Commission will petition the Constitutional Court today to rule on whether the poll can be rescheduled, EC secretary general Puchong Nutrawong said yesterday. The agency wants to try to ascertain which body - the EC or the Cabinet - has authority to set a new election date.

The EC previously suggested that the election be postponed from February 2, but the PM and government said it had no authority to do that.

According to Article 214 of the Constitution, whenever there is a conflict of power between the governing bodies, the matter may be settled by the Constitutional Court.


-- The Nation 2014-01-22

[pookiki]

The language in the Constitution seems to be crystal clear. This will be interesting.

[Nowhereman60]

The EC is trying as hard as they can to not do it's job. Even trying to stop people from their right to vote.

[ChrisY1]

Whether the EC is trying or not trying to hold the election in 10 days time doesn't really matter....with only 10 days to go, it seems to be a mission impossible.......40 million voters to get organised???

Can't see it happening with any sort of efficiency!.......another major mess on the way!

[englishoak]

rubbish constitution if they have to go to the courts for a simple thing like elections. Talk about dysfunctional.

[JRSoul]

rubbish constitution if they have to go to the courts for a simple thing like elections. Talk about dysfunctional.

Not like the UK then?

[kurtgruen]

This Constitution was voted in by Referendum, so if anybody wants to make changes to it, it should be done via referendum, again, after the changes have been discussed and voted on, bring it back to the people.

[lovetotravel]

The language in the Constitution seems to be crystal clear. This will be interesting.

The language is "relatively" clear. But even then, the current government ignores it and then when rebuffed by the constitutional court, issues statements they don't respect the court's ruling:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Pheu-Thai-issues-statement-to-denounce-Constitutio-30220254.html

It's a big mess right now. But if the EC doesn't feel it can properly hold an election (not enough candidates), the poll can't proceed. This has happened in the past, right?

[animatic]

The EC objection is that it can not run a safe and fair election at the moment.

The question is; Is safe a viable delaying reason, it might be,

while not being fair is subjective at best, but may well be a valid reason for delay.

Yes good for the court to rule. But how fast to rule and if it will be in time who knows.

Certainly the attempts to delay are not the same as stopping preparations for it.

Clearly the gov. seems desperate to run the election and regain control of the money.

[englishoak]

rubbish constitution if they have to go to the courts for a simple thing like elections. Talk about dysfunctional.

Not like the UK then?

ummmm no. We dont have a constitution.

[JRSoul]

rubbish constitution if they have to go to the courts for a simple thing like elections. Talk about dysfunctional.

Not like the UK then?

ummmm no. We dont have a constitution.

Exactly my point. A dispute over election dates would be settled by a court. Talk about dysfunctional.

[mijan24]

One must ask "who is in power The Government" or the "Electoral Commission"

BANGKOK: -- The Election Commission will petition the Constitutional Court today to rule on whether the poll can be rescheduled, EC secretary general Puchong Nutrawong said yesterday. The agency wants to try to ascertain which body - the EC or the Cabinet - has authority to set a new election date.

The EC previously suggested that the election be postponed from February 2, but the PM and government said it had no authority to do that.

According to Article 214 of the Constitution, whenever there is a conflict of power between the governing bodies, the matter may be settled by the Constitutional Court.

What agency are we talking about here? Is it the EC? Aren't the EC an arm of the government? - Ii is akin to the body of the snake questioning the Snakes Head on the right of the "Head" to make decisions - no wonder we are in such a mess and of course this all plays into the hands of Mr "S" & Mr "T".

[pookiki]

The EC objection is that it can not run a safe and fair election at the moment.

The question is; Is safe a viable delaying reason, it might be,

while not being fair is subjective at best, but may well be a valid reason for delay.

Yes good for the court to rule. But how fast to rule and if it will be in time who knows.

Certainly the attempts to delay are not the same as stopping preparations for it.

Clearly the gov. seems desperate to run the election and regain control of the money.

I understand the argument being advanced by the EC but there is no provision in the Constitution that addresses this issue. As such, any ruling by the CC will be ad hoc and not based on the provisions of the Constitution itself. In most systems of jurisprudence, courts don't issue 'advisory' opinions. It isn't a proper use of checks and balances.

[pookiki]

Coup is imminent. It will all be moot.

[NongKhaiKid]

rubbish constitution if they have to go to the courts for a simple thing like elections. Talk about dysfunctional.

it also fits nicely into the Thai reluctance to make decisions and accept responsibility so if there's chance to pass the buck take it.

[animatic]

The EC objection is that it can not run a safe and fair election at the moment.

The question is; Is safe a viable delaying reason, it might be,

while not being fair is subjective at best, but may well be a valid reason for delay.

Yes good for the court to rule. But how fast to rule and if it will be in time who knows.

Certainly the attempts to delay are not the same as stopping preparations for it.

Clearly the gov. seems desperate to run the election and regain control of the money.

I understand the argument being advanced by the EC but there is no provision in the Constitution that addresses this issue. As such, any ruling by the CC will be ad hoc and not based on the provisions of the Constitution itself. In most systems of jurisprudence, courts don't issue 'advisory' opinions. It isn't a proper use of checks and balances.

Courts make decisions on the interpretation of disputed laws as they see it,

as left by the text of the constitution, if unclear or unresolved.

If it isn't stated clearly, then they have the options of saying ;

We have no decision we can make.

This is the closest logical decision.

We state this is what it means definitively.

Edited January 22, 2014 by animatic

[icommunity]

The Royal Decree 2 Feb should go on as scheduled and then the 180 days rule apply after the election on those constituencies whose candidates failed to register due to the closing down of registration centers and the resignation of EC officials and the illegal activities which the EC is yet to take action.

I wonder, if in the event of change date, whether the DEM will still maintain its stand on reform before election.

Will the CC rule in favour of reform before election to save the Prachathipat party?

If reform before election, who is responsible for proposing, debating, scrutinizing, voting the bills (likely to be many) into laws? Will that be considered as unconstitutional as well?

Edited January 22, 2014 by icommunity

[focus27]

One must ask "who is in power The Government" or the "Electoral Commission"

[...]

According to Article 214 of the Constitution, whenever there is a conflict of power between the governing bodies, the matter may be settled by the Constitutional Court.

What agency are we talking about here? Is it the EC? Aren't the EC an arm of the government? - Ii is akin to the body of the snake questioning the Snakes Head on the right of the "Head" to make decisions - no wonder we are in such a mess and of course this all plays into the hands of Mr "S" & Mr "T".

Not exactly, the EC is an independent agency of the Thai government.

What does that mean? Read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Election_Commission_of_Thailand

and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_Government_Agencies_of_Thailand

We tend to talk quite loosely about a government, often thinking it is the same as the executive (PM and ministers), but it isn't. The EC is part of the Thai government but it is not under the control of the executive - hence the arguments.

[JRSoul]

One must ask "who is in power The Government" or the "Electoral Commission"

BANGKOK: -- The Election Commission will petition the Constitutional Court today to rule on whether the poll can be rescheduled, EC secretary general Puchong Nutrawong said yesterday. The agency wants to try to ascertain which body - the EC or the Cabinet - has authority to set a new election date.

The EC previously suggested that the election be postponed from February 2, but the PM and government said it had no authority to do that.

According to Article 214 of the Constitution, whenever there is a conflict of power between the governing bodies, the matter may be settled by the Constitutional Court.

What agency are we talking about here? Is it the EC? Aren't the EC an arm of the government? - Ii is akin to the body of the snake questioning the Snakes Head on the right of the "Head" to make decisions - no wonder we are in such a mess and of course this all plays into the hands of Mr "S" & Mr "T".

You are making a typical "red-thinking" mistake. The EC is NOT an arm of the government, it is a constitutionally appointed independent body intended to make sure elections are held according to the applicable laws. While other so-called independent bodies, such as the DSI, have become "arms" acting on government orders and refusing to enforce laws they blatantly break, the EC has not succumbed.

Reforms are needed to prevent suborning of the independent bodies to ensure honest, transparent and accountable government in this country.

BTW I love mixed metaphors; arm of a snake is a ripper, though the snake reference is apt.

Edited January 22, 2014 by JRSoul

[ChrisY1]

The EC objection is that it can not run a safe and fair election at the moment.

The question is; Is safe a viable delaying reason, it might be,

while not being fair is subjective at best, but may well be a valid reason for delay.

Yes good for the court to rule. But how fast to rule and if it will be in time who knows.

Certainly the attempts to delay are not the same as stopping preparations for it.

Clearly the gov. seems desperate to run the election and regain control of the money.

Correct.....get back control of the finances and cover their poor (read incompetent) track record.

[backtonormal]

If the Army dont get you the Administrative bodies, judiciary etc will shut you down. At least Sutheps game is outing certain bodies and individuals and their unhealthy allegiances

[Roadman]

rubbish constitution if they have to go to the courts for a simple thing like elections. Talk about dysfunctional.

Eggxacally...penny finally dropping?.....and the reason the elections need scraped and the whole bloody dysfunctional system rebuilt by all those involved.

[BuddyPinkham]

And you think the government will abide by a court's ruling???????

[Baerboxer]

The EC is trying as hard as they can to not do it's job. Even trying to stop people from their right to vote.

Wrong - again. You keep trying to suggest the EC's job is to bend to the will of the Shin clan, and only that. They have concerns about the validity, wasteful costs, and context in which an election would held on 2nd February. They are not trying to stop people having the right to vote at all. They are doing their job responsibly rather than giving in to caretaker regime's intimidation, including threats of imprisonment, to bully their own way.

[pookiki]

One must ask "who is in power The Government" or the "Electoral Commission"

[...]

According to Article 214 of the Constitution, whenever there is a conflict of power between the governing bodies, the matter may be settled by the Constitutional Court.

What agency are we talking about here? Is it the EC? Aren't the EC an arm of the government? - Ii is akin to the body of the snake questioning the Snakes Head on the right of the "Head" to make decisions - no wonder we are in such a mess and of course this all plays into the hands of Mr "S" & Mr "T".

Not exactly, the EC is an independent agency of the Thai government.

What does that mean? Read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Election_Commission_of_Thailand

and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_Government_Agencies_of_Thailand

We tend to talk quite loosely about a government, often thinking it is the same as the executive (PM and ministers), but it isn't. The EC is part of the Thai government but it is not under the control of the executive - hence the arguments.

OK, if you take this on its face as being correct, then the EC is empowered to delay the election on it's own volition, right? It doesn't need the caretaker government to agree -- right? As such, the EC is asking the CC for an advisory opinion not an interpretation of the Constitution.

[englishoak]

rubbish constitution if they have to go to the courts for a simple thing like elections. Talk about dysfunctional.

Eggxacally...penny finally dropping?.....and the reason the elections need scraped and the whole bloody dysfunctional system rebuilt by all those involved.

No they dont need scrapping, you do it by getting together an electable opposition with real policies and the trust of the people. In the meantime yes there needs to be all sides sitting down and beginning the repair of a broken system. What you don't do is try and install an un named hand picked excluding peoples council. Ive not heard once that Sutheps idea would include PT representatives or any other name for that matter. As you say it must include all.

PS the current constitution was made by exactly who and with whos help ?

[SICHONSTEVE]

This Constitution was voted in by Referendum, so if anybody wants to make changes to it, it should be done via referendum, again, after the changes have been discussed and voted on, bring it back to the people.

I wonder why the PTP weren't confident of having their amended constitution approved in a referendum (which they had the chance of doing)?? Just what was to be lurking inside it that the people might not like I wonder??

[tingtongteesood]

One must ask "who is in power The Government" or the "Electoral Commission"

BANGKOK: -- The Election Commission will petition the Constitutional Court today to rule on whether the poll can be rescheduled, EC secretary general Puchong Nutrawong said yesterday. The agency wants to try to ascertain which body - the EC or the Cabinet - has authority to set a new election date.

The EC previously suggested that the election be postponed from February 2, but the PM and government said it had no authority to do that.

According to Article 214 of the Constitution, whenever there is a conflict of power between the governing bodies, the matter may be settled by the Constitutional Court.

What agency are we talking about here? Is it the EC? Aren't the EC an arm of the government? - Ii is akin to the body of the snake questioning the Snakes Head on the right of the "Head" to make decisions - no wonder we are in such a mess and of course this all plays into the hands of Mr "S" & Mr "T".

The EC should be an independent organization under the monarchy that can do its job free of government interference, what it says should be an official edict, sadly it doesn't seem to be this way.

[tingtongteesood]

JRSoul

You are making a typical "red-thinking" mistake. The EC is NOT an arm of the government, it is a constitutionally appointed independent body intended to make sure elections are held according to the applicable laws. While other so-called independent bodies, such as the DSI, have become "arms" acting on government orders and refusing to enforce laws they blatantly break, the EC has not succumbed.

Reforms are needed to prevent suborning of the independent bodies to ensure honest, transparent and accountable government in this country.

BTW I love mixed metaphors; arm of a snake is a ripper, though the snake reference is apt.

Absolutely spot on sir.

Edited January 22, 2014 by tingtongteesood

[harrry]

Whether the EC is trying or not trying to hold the election in 10 days time doesn't really matter....with only 10 days to go, it seems to be a mission impossible.......40 million voters to get organised???

Can't see it happening with any sort of efficiency!.......another major mess on the way!

Everyone on my families tabian bahn have recieved their election notices from the government allready.I think a few will be voting differently to how they did last time.

Edited January 22, 2014 by harrry