Group warns US against simplistic view of Thai conflict

[tullynagardy]

The US will always take the side with what ever is in their beast interest...

Sadly true. The US very recently had a major hand in overthrowing an elected government in Egypt as it suited them and their proxy state Israel better. There are other countless non democratic system the US has supported down the years including apartheid South Africa.

That said Obama could barely hide his erection when he met Yingluck

[kurtgruen]

Remember we are logicaly thinking people! Thainess is something else. We will never understand.

On Stage 12th of Jan, Vera a protest leader had another explanation than "logic" why Farangs don't get it:

12:45 at Asoke protest stage, media personality Seri Wongmontha veers into anti-foreigner rant. "Do they think we're stupid?" (Cont'd)

"It's proven ppl w/ yellow skin are smarter than ppl w/ white skin... Thais who study abroad get better marks than their classmates."

Collapse [/b]

We are just too dumb to understand Thainess, maybe the network of medical volunteers can add that to their little letter.

"Do they think we're stupid?"

Is that a rhetorical question?

Interesting thing is, he is right about one thing. Asian students in North American universities, on average, do a lot better than their white counterparts. When my daughter did her Pre-med, she noticed it too and kept saying how smart Asian people are and how easy knowledge seems to come to them.

Then, when we took our Thai, teenage daughter, to Canada, to do her middle school, she had almost straight A's, (except for a B or two), in her second year. That was, after skipping a year, because they wanted her in the same age group, so she jumped a grade ahead in Canada and still excelled.

[gemini81]

Yingluck was seen recently on CNN, in a clip so unclear, she had to be accompanied by captions. And yet those who read the captions needn't have bothered. She doesn't actually say anything. She may as well be speaking in Swahili. There was a belligerence in her tone, however, as if she is fed up to the teeth with people who can't understand that her administration is just doing its job. The problem - as always - regarding the American and international perception of the situation here - is that it can't possibly be condensed into the 30 second soundbite. The problem with Yingluck - is that she is still struggling to fill the 30 seconds.

That was like a shockumentary, along with the one from the Philippines & one in Korea. But the CNN one takes the cake. Exposure to that damages brain cells. Posted it to facebook and everyone thought it was either funny or some sort of satire for those who don't know Thai politics.

She said 'Th..th.thh...Thai people..." "accomplish" & "woman leader" like 50 times. She kept steering the interview questions away from examples when prompted about what exactly she has accomplished to deserve respect.

Good for a laugh, just hard to fathom that is the reality of a so-called leader in a real interview.

[pipkins]

then there was Ferdinand Marcos ... elected by majority and thrown out by people power ...

I agree with the premise that elected governments that break the law have themselves thrown away their legitimacy ...

And the philipines is now corruption free?

Just as was Thailand before thaksin? At least he spread money to the impoverished north or don't you have access to Google or independent media?

[kurtgruen]

then there was Ferdinand Marcos ... elected by majority and thrown out by people power ...

I agree with the premise that elected governments that break the law have themselves thrown away their legitimacy ...

And the philipines is now corruption free?

Just as was Thailand before thaksin? At least he spread money to the impoverished north or don't you have access to Google or independent media?

Marcos was loved by the US and later welcomed, with a planeload of cash and gold, after the people booted him out. He was one of the worst dictators. So much for "elected Governments"

[fab4]

The statement was pretty reasonable & I wonder why the red supporters jumped all over it so quickly. Afraid of the truth perhaps. The fact there is a group that wants to change the system to be more free & fair is quite noble but certainly not for those with something to hide such as vast sums of money sequestered away through corruption. The 1997 constitution was supposedly the best one yet but every loophole was exploited instead of sticking to the true spirit of that constitution.

"The 1997 constitution was supposedly the best one yet but every loophole was exploited instead of sticking to the true spirit of that constitution."

Yet the dems invoking Section 68 against every single constitutional change (under guidelines issued by the Constitutional Court) attempted by the PTP was not exploiting the constitution itself but sticking to the "true spirit" of it?

To remind you

Section 68. No person shall exercise the rights and liberties prescribed in the Constitution to overthrow the democratic regime of government with the King as Head of State under this Constitution or to acquire the power to rule the country by any means which is not in accordance with the modes provided in this Constitution http://http://www.asianlii.org/th/legis/const/2007/1.html

[borisloosebrain]

The US supports democracy when and where it suits them and their perceived interests. Many of the regimes they have supported since WW2 have been brutal dictatorships not democracies. Their current silence on Egypt is deafening. They have an atrocious track record of foreign policy intervention in S E Asia and now the middle east with more than enough blood on their hands to party with dracula till doomsday. I were Thai I would tell Michael Turner to go eff himself.

[LarryBird]

Simplistic view following simplistic behavior of a SE asian nation of simpletons. I'd like to see why they think the world should view Thai politics as rocket science.

Brilliant!

[fab4]

Richard Nixon was elected too before being forced out

I believe he was subject to impeachment and resigned rather than face up to his accusers. So your point is?

Edited January 23, 2014 by fab4

[LarryBird]

Remember we are logicaly thinking people! Thainess is something else. We will never understand.

On Stage 12th of Jan, Vera a protest leader had another explanation than "logic" why Farangs don't get it:

12:45 at Asoke protest stage, media personality Seri Wongmontha veers into anti-foreigner rant. "Do they think we're stupid?" (Cont'd)

"It's proven ppl w/ yellow skin are smarter than ppl w/ white skin... Thais who study abroad get better marks than their classmates."

Collapse [/b]

We are just too dumb to understand Thainess, maybe the network of medical volunteers can add that to their little letter.

"Do they think we're stupid?"

Is that a rhetorical question?

Interesting thing is, he is right about one thing. Asian students in North American universities, on average, do a lot better than their white counterparts. When my daughter did her Pre-med, she noticed it too and kept saying how smart Asian people are and how easy knowledge seems to come to them.

Then, when we took our Thai, teenage daughter, to Canada, to do her middle school, she had almost straight A's, (except for a B or two), in her second year. That was, after skipping a year, because they wanted her in the same age group, so she jumped a grade ahead in Canada and still excelled.

It's called selection BIAS, bro. Thai's that are going to Universities abroad are FAR FAR FAR from a cross section of society. Nice try, though.

[LarryBird]

I love the examples of situations where democracy failed to produce the most honorable person, and therefore, democracy shouldn't exist. LOL!!!!

You guys rule. Sometimes, people that wear seatbelts die in a car accident, therefore, don't wear seatbelts! Thaivisa logic is awesome!

On another note, the scariest part of this all, is if these anti democracy folks get what they want.

I would bet BIG, REALLY BIG against the future of Thailand.

[soi41]

The solution is very simple!!

Secretary of State John Kerry should join Thaivisa!!

After a couple of weeks here with all the "experts" on Thai politics, US will realise, that such a thing like a "simplistic view on Thai politics" doesn't exist!!

[Thai at Heart]

Remember we are logicaly thinking people! Thainess is something else. We will never understand.

On Stage 12th of Jan, Vera a protest leader had another explanation than "logic" why Farangs don't get it:

12:45 at Asoke protest stage, media personality Seri Wongmontha veers into anti-foreigner rant. "Do they think we're stupid?" (Cont'd)

"It's proven ppl w/ yellow skin are smarter than ppl w/ white skin... Thais who study abroad get better marks than their classmates."

Collapse [/b]

We are just too dumb to understand Thainess, maybe the network of medical volunteers can add that to their little letter.

"Do they think we're stupid?"

Is that a rhetorical question?

Interesting thing is, he is right about one thing. Asian students in North American universities, on average, do a lot better than their white counterparts. When my daughter did her Pre-med, she noticed it too and kept saying how smart Asian people are and how easy knowledge seems to come to them.

Then, when we took our Thai, teenage daughter, to Canada, to do her middle school, she had almost straight A's, (except for a B or two), in her second year. That was, after skipping a year, because they wanted her in the same age group, so she jumped a grade ahead in Canada and still excelled.

On the average yes.

But then look at the thai academic results and you realise that Asia is a very big place.

Bear in mind that these so called academics went through the thai system 30 years ago. They might be better educated than their other thais which doesn't maybe doesn't amount to a whole hill of beans.

Comparing thais with Hong Kong, Singapore, Japan and Korea is chalk and cheese.

[Thai at Heart]

I love the examples of situations where democracy failed to produce the most honorable person, and therefore, democracy shouldn't exist. LOL!!!!

You guys rule. Sometimes, people that wear seatbelts die in a car accident, therefore, don't wear seatbelts! Thaivisa logic is awesome!

On another note, the scariest part of this all, is if these anti democracy folks get what they want.

I would bet BIG, REALLY BIG against the future of Thailand.

Indeed. The world survived JW and Gordon Broon.

Amazing really.

[rogerdee123]

Richard Nixon was elected too before being forced out

I believe he was subject to impeachment and resigned rather than face up to his accusers. So your point is?

Yingluck has resigned too ... now her mob is trying to have an election before her (her brother's) version of their "dirty tricks" gang has been dismantled

[wiesner]

being a us citizen. the usa should mind their own business, they have enough problems of their own. don't preach won't you don't do. take care of your own problems

[BigRick]

being a us citizen. the usa should mind their own business, they have enough problems of their own. don't preach won't you don't do. take care of your own problems

Good idea we will take all our business interest with us too we can come back and visit West Cambodia in 10 years. And you forgot to add Best regards Suthep. What is an "us" citizen? Is that some form of special Thai citizen? For someone who professes being American maybe you should stay in Thailand where you belong clearly one slipped by the immigration INS background checks stateside.

Edited January 23, 2014 by BigRick

[Thai at Heart]

being a us citizen. the usa should mind their own business, they have enough problems of their own. don't preach won't you don't do. take care of your own problems

Did the USA make any official judgement of support for one or other?

I am sick of this nationalistic nonsense. Maybe the protestors should try to formulate an explanation without them taking up a hypocritical or ludicrous position.

[JRSoul]

Richard Nixon was elected too before being forced out

I believe he was subject to impeachment and resigned rather than face up to his accusers. So your point is?

That in a mature democracy with firmly established independent bodies, impeachment is possible. While in Thailand, the head of the elite police force changes the definition of a crime to protect those in power, immediately drops all investigations of her party's armed militia, and apparently hasn't looked at any crimes by anybody connected to the government in the last 3 years.

[FangFerang]

Of course it's simplistic. All American foreign policy makers care is their own interest. Whatever benefits them. I believe Americans play both sides that way the price goes down. Whoever sells themselves cheaper will be supported by the USA. Anyway Thaksin has been paying quite a lot of lobby groups to promote his agenda.

Amsterdam & Perrof

Baker Botts L.L.P.

Barbour Griffith & Rogers

Edelman

Kobre & Kim L.L.P.

All of them were lobbying for Shins. If you want to get good coverage, you've got to pay for it. No one cares about the truth. Money talks.

It is the golden rule. He Who has the Gold makes the Rules...been that way for a couple of thousand years, under one guise or another. Here comes the new boss, same as the old boss....no one here in Thailand or anywhere in the world really wants to change that. They want the gold. They want to make the rules. No Messiah in sight anywhere on the planet just now...all else is rhetoric.

[mikebike]

To remind you

Section 68. No person shall exercise the rights and liberties prescribed in the Constitution to overthrow the democratic regime of government with the King as Head of State under this Constitution or to acquire the power to rule the country by any means which is not in accordance with the modes provided in this Constitution http://http://www.asianlii.org/th/legis/const/2007/1.html

Yeah, I'm pretty sure GB had that as a clause when the American revolution started too... Change tends to upset the status quo and those of little imagination. This country obviously needs a kick in its political arse because neither side is happy, lets reform, reset sand restart, what's the issue?

[spirit47]

The USA do everything for its own favour, asking them for moral and ethics is like speaking with a refrigerator... In a BBC poll from 2009 for the most popular states the USA get 40%, Canada 57%. They should call for a boycott of US products, the only language they understand...

[LarryBird]

It's kind of funny, with the possibility of the rice scheme falling apart, (sorry, I'm not up on the details on this) the yellows had a great opportunity to get that farmers vote.. 'Join with us, we'll pay you back' or something else. That's how democracy works. You weather the storm of a bad government, make change when you have the opportunity. Nothing is perfect, it takes time and patience. If the rice scheme is the worst of this administration, then worse things have happened in history without trying to think up a new form of government. It's just too bad they insulted people and told them they were too stupid to vote. Now, how can they join sides with them? I would rather die than vote for someone that told me I am too stupid to vote.

[Cnxforever]

I think the time has come to accept that when well educated Thais advise foreigners that they should not take a simplistic view this almost inevitably means the Thais concerned cannot bring themselves to face up to some simple truths (as seems to be the case with these medics).The fact is I have never seen any informed Western source (and certainly not the US State Department) suggest the current conflict is the result of class warfare.Clearly there are a host of quite complicated factors involved.At the same time there is obviously an element of class conflict, its weight and significance being a matter of legitimate discussion between reasonable people.No point in denying its existence altogether.

I have recently been reading about the causes of World War 1.Even at a distance of 100 years there is a huge amount of controversy among historians about this.Do we really believe that we can be confident to have simple ready made answers to the causes of the current Thai crisis?

They would have us believe it is all about corruption. Led by Suthep, who only a couple of months ago was in parliamwnt and made not a peep about corruption.

There is a very long story behind these events but isn't the version that the protestors have been told.

yes and Mr. Suthep can be particularly proud - he was the one who brought down the last democratically elected Democrat government over his corrupt dealings down South !!

This seems to be some kind of a sport for him - he does it to his own too!

[F430murci]

The USA do everything for its own favour, asking them for moral and ethics is like speaking with a refrigerator... In a BBC poll from 2009 for the most popular states the USA get 40%, Canada 57%. They should call for a boycott of US products, the only language they understand...

Shinning example of superior yellow skin intelligence. US is not a state. Canada is not a state.

US exports to Thialand are about $ 10 billion a year.

US imports about $ 26 billion a year from Thailand.

US gives about $ 17 million a year in foreign aid to Thaland and something like $ 350 million in aid to Thailand in 2005 after the tsunami.

So your brilliant proposal to punish US would actually deprive Thailand of $ 26 billion a year in export revenue and a loss of $ 17 million a year in charity handouts. Brilliance at work and exactly why Thailand is such a mess today.

Candidly, please do shut down trade with US. This would save US tax payers a lot of money and assist our economy by decreasing imports.

I am so tired of US giving away money to ungrateful societies incapable of taking care of their own.

How about paying US back for cleaning up your tsunami mess. Has Thailand ever given US money or labor to clean up natural disasters?

Edited January 23, 2014 by F430murci

[Kilgore Trout]

It is an Anti-Democratic movement, as the constitutions has a vehicle to "impeach" the PM for any illegal acts she may have committed, That is how a Democracy works,

The protesters have voiced opposition to a free and open election and have questioned the one-person, one vote principal of the current Thai democracy,

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, That what it is!

Cheers

Unless it's a robot duck, in that case it would be a robot, not a duck.

Edited January 23, 2014 by metisdead
30) Do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes, added emoticons, or altered wording.

[alex8912]

The US will always take the side with what ever is in their beast interest...

I see this statement quite a lot on TVF. Please let me know your list of countries that don't take a side for their beast. I mean best interest? I really want to know.

[geriatrickid]

You have a very simplistic view about Thailand democracy. The US are probably on top of their intelligence brief and well know what sort of democracy the Shinawatras favour - the present one where impeachment is all but impossible. Same went for Thaksin. Turner is just one of those silly Congressmen who get paid by lobbyists to complain about something halfway across the world that he has know idea about.

I suggest you look at the committees Congressman Turner chairs or is a member of. You claim he is paid by "lobbyists". You didn't check his ethical rating did you? The man has a sterling track record without so much of a whiff of impropriety in his career. BTW, he's a political moderate known for his urban revitalization success.

And as aside, the U.S. statements are similar to those of China, Canada, the UK, Australia and the EU.

[kikoman]

It is an Anti-Democratic movement, as the constitutions has a vehicle to "impeach" the PM for any illegal acts she may have committed, That is how a Democracy works,

The protesters have voiced opposition to a free and open election and have questioned the one-person, one vote principal of the current Thai democracy,

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, That what it is!

Cheers

You have a very simplistic view about Thailand democracy. The US are probably on top of their intelligence brief and well know what sort of democracy the Shinawatras favour - the present one where impeachment is all but impossible. Same went for Thaksin. Turner is just one of those silly Congressmen who get paid by lobbyists to complain about something halfway across the world that he has know idea about.

Please enlighten me on your "un-simplistic" view of Democracy, and where was it practiced in Germany in 1938, or Russia in 1956 or Iran in 1999, most of them also favored appointment to positions of power vs a free election.

One thing I am quite certain of the US would never back an anti-democrat mob over an elected leader that won in a land slide in the 2011 election!

Having lived under a half decent democracy most of my life and watched its ideals deteriorate to where I no longer cared to live there, one thing they do, is go by the book!

Cheers

Edited January 23, 2014 by kikoman

[kikoman]

Richard Nixon was elected too before being forced out

That is the impeachment option of a Democracy,

Nixon was caught Red Handed (pardon the expression) and chose the easy way out, he resigned!

Much different to what is happening in Thailand, If anyone attempted to do in Washington DC what the protester have done in Bangkok, many of them would be in cemetaries or buried at sea!

They do not mess around in the Land of the Free and the home of the Brave!

Cheers