Group warns US against simplistic view of Thai conflict

[scorecard]

You have a very simplistic view about Thailand democracy. The US are probably on top of their intelligence brief and well know what sort of democracy the Shinawatras favour - the present one where impeachment is all but impossible. Same went for Thaksin. Turner is just one of those silly Congressmen who get paid by lobbyists to complain about something halfway across the world that he has know idea about.

I suggest you look at the committees Congressman Turner chairs or is a member of. You claim he is paid by "lobbyists". You didn't check his ethical rating did you? The man has a sterling track record without so much of a whiff of impropriety in his career. BTW, he's a political moderate known for his urban revitalization success.

And as aside, the U.S. statements are similar to those of China, Canada, the UK, Australia and the EU.

So perhaps you could share the actual words used by the USA, China, Canada, the UK, Australia and the EU.

[rogerdee123]

It is an Anti-Democratic movement, as the constitutions has a vehicle to "impeach" the PM for any illegal acts she may have committed, That is how a Democracy works,

The protesters have voiced opposition to a free and open election and have questioned the one-person, one vote principal of the current Thai democracy,

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, That what it is!

Cheers

You have a very simplistic view about Thailand democracy. The US are probably on top of their intelligence brief and well know what sort of democracy the Shinawatras favour - the present one where impeachment is all but impossible. Same went for Thaksin. Turner is just one of those silly Congressmen who get paid by lobbyists to complain about something halfway across the world that he has know idea about.

Please enlighten me on your "un-simplistic" view of Democracy, and where was it practiced in Germany in 1938, or Russia in 1956 or Iran in 1999, most of them also favored appointment to positions of power vs a free election.

One thing I am quite certain of the US would never back an anti-democrat mob over an elected leader that won in a land slide in the 2011 election!

Having lived under a half decent democracy most of my life and watched its ideals deteriorate to where I no longer cared to live there, one thing they do, is go by the book!

Cheers

Here the people tend to think the "book" is the "thai constitution". And the current Govt's not following the" book" is what started this protest.

[englishoak]

Remember we are logicaly thinking people! Thainess is something else. We will never understand.

On Stage 12th of Jan, Vera a protest leader had another explanation than "logic" why Farangs don't get it:

12:45 at Asoke protest stage, media personality Seri Wongmontha veers into anti-foreigner rant. "Do they think we're stupid?" (Cont'd)

"It's proven ppl w/ yellow skin are smarter than ppl w/ white skin... Thais who study abroad get better marks than their classmates."

Collapse [/b]

We are just too dumb to understand Thainess, maybe the network of medical volunteers can add that to their little letter.

"Do they think we're stupid?"

Is that a rhetorical question?

Interesting thing is, he is right about one thing. Asian students in North American universities, on average, do a lot better than their white counterparts. When my daughter did her Pre-med, she noticed it too and kept saying how smart Asian people are and how easy knowledge seems to come to them.

Then, when we took our Thai, teenage daughter, to Canada, to do her middle school, she had almost straight A's, (except for a B or two), in her second year. That was, after skipping a year, because they wanted her in the same age group, so she jumped a grade ahead in Canada and still excelled.

I won't disagree they study well, my daughter is back in the UK studying atm and is having the same experience, the difference with asians seems to be the lack of critical and free thinking, adaptation and progressive thought. She is loving the input of debates there, the differences of opinion without the discrimination and the freedom to explore its limits of which of course there are none but what they set themselves, whereas here they are very restricted. My daughter also noted that whilst the classrooms and grades of her fellow Asians are in the top tier they rarely attend debates or interact outside class and flounder very badly when having to input ideas and theories or just support an opinion. In short they read texbooks very well and repeat but dont seem to be that great without a guideline to follow.

For instance here there is no encouragement for critical thinking or independent and original thought or even responsibility.There is no interest adapting and challenging the status quo here they are actively encouraged to avoid it. Asians are great at studying and gaining good grades but its how they apply them after that counts. Education is not just a piece of paper it is supposed to expand your mind and encourage curiosity,the ability to grasp new ideas explore them and indeed to form new ideas themselves and further the area for the benefit of others that come after.

Life does not begin and end with that bit of paper, it is what they go on to achieve after that counts. You can see there is a very high % with degrees here that cannot even make a burger from scratch let alone grasp the concept of sexism being unacceptable or any other form of elitist preconception of a right to more than another.

The spotlight is firmly on Thailand and it wont be switched off simply because they dont like it, people want to ask questions they will ask questions and they will say what they think, especially if it is clearly anti this or that. The more people outside are told to mind their own business the less they will be likely to, this alludes there is something to hide which of course peaks the curiosity to dig even deeper something which isnt allowed inside Thailand..... this is good as this will eventually force people here and Thai students elsewhere to confront the limitations they live under in Thailand at the moment.

The tap in freedom of information and thought is turned on here the same as anywhere with the internet, it will not be turned off by making stupid statements designed for the local populous, the international community simply dosnt care to be told what to do where freedom to speech and to form their own opinion is concerned.

If something is seen as being anti democratic by the international community then itll be said it is. The ones with the problem are the group here that think they can fool the Thai people, expect the rest of the world to shut up and think they will lol not a chance and rightly so, if Thais cannot call it what it is be assured other nations will not hesitate to.

Thailand likes all the trappings of international stardom it will have to deal with the interest of the worlds press and values too, what a shame.......

[BigRick]

The USA do everything for its own favour, asking them for moral and ethics is like speaking with a refrigerator... In a BBC poll from 2009 for the most popular states the USA get 40%, Canada 57%. They should call for a boycott of US products, the only language they understand...

Shinning example of superior yellow skin intelligence. US is not a state. Canada is not a state.

US exports to Thialand are about $ 10 billion a year.

US imports about $ 26 billion a year from Thailand.

US gives about $ 17 million a year in foreign aid to Thaland and something like $ 350 million in aid to Thailand in 2005 after the tsunami.

So your brilliant proposal to punish US would actually deprive Thailand of $ 26 billion a year in export revenue and a loss of $ 17 million a year in charity handouts. Brilliance at work and exactly why Thailand is such a mess today.

Candidly, please do shut down trade with US. This would save US tax payers a lot of money and assist our economy by decreasing imports.

I am so tired of US giving away money to ungrateful societies incapable of taking care of their own.

How about paying US back for cleaning up your tsunami mess. Has Thailand ever given US money or labor to clean up natural disasters?

Well said. I guess Suthep only pays his internet guys the same rate as the protesters for posting on Thai visa. Then again maybe he is French? It works so well for the United States protecting a region we get 14% of our oil from yet pay for almost 100% of the security so Asia and Europe have Middle eastern oil. Not to mention the US pacific fleet that is totally in our interest we make a fortune on ship tours in Asia. "not" Ever wonder why Korea and Japan have great economies? They don't pay as much for regional security as the United States does. One should not forget who saved them from the British and French after their little cave in to the Japanese. Like anything else these places only need us when there is a free handout.

Edited January 23, 2014 by BigRick

[pantareiyingluck]

The topic is simple. The enormous gap between rich / poor slowly developing middle class and not evenly balanced share of wealth. That Thailand is a pretty much racist country where the color of skin ranks you. That is something for later.

[pantareiyingluck]

Remember we are logicaly thinking people! Thainess is something else. We will never understand.

On Stage 12th of Jan, Vera a protest leader had another explanation than "logic" why Farangs don't get it:

12:45 at Asoke protest stage, media personality Seri Wongmontha veers into anti-foreigner rant. "Do they think we're stupid?" (Cont'd)

"It's proven ppl w/ yellow skin are smarter than ppl w/ white skin... Thais who study abroad get better marks than their classmates."

Collapse [/b]

We are just too dumb to understand Thainess, maybe the network of medical volunteers can add that to their little letter.

"Do they think we're stupid?"

Is that a rhetorical question?

Interesting thing is, he is right about one thing. Asian students in North American universities, on average, do a lot better than their white counterparts. When my daughter did her Pre-med, she noticed it too and kept saying how smart Asian people are and how easy knowledge seems to come to them.

Then, when we took our Thai, teenage daughter, to Canada, to do her middle school, she had almost straight A's, (except for a B or two), in her second year. That was, after skipping a year, because they wanted her in the same age group, so she jumped a grade ahead in Canada and still excelled.

I won't disagree they study well, my daughter is back in the UK studying atm and is having the same experience, the difference with asians seems to be the lack of critical and free thinking, adaptation and progressive thought. She is loving the input of debates there, the differences of opinion without the discrimination and the freedom to explore its limits of which of course there are none but what they set themselves, whereas here they are very restricted. My daughter also noted that whilst the classrooms and grades of her fellow Asians are in the top tier they rarely attend debates or interact outside class and flounder very badly when having to input ideas and theories or just support an opinion. In short they read texbooks very well and repeat but dont seem to be that great without a guideline to follow.

For instance here there is no encouragement for critical thinking or independent and original thought or even responsibility.There is no interest adapting and challenging the status quo here they are actively encouraged to avoid it. Asians are great at studying and gaining good grades but its how they apply them after that counts. Education is not just a piece of paper it is supposed to expand your mind and encourage curiosity,the ability to grasp new ideas explore them and indeed to form new ideas themselves and further the area for the benefit of others that come after.

Life does not begin and end with that bit of paper, it is what they go on to achieve after that counts. You can see there is a very high % with degrees here that cannot even make a burger from scratch let alone grasp the concept of sexism being unacceptable or any other form of elitist preconception of a right to more than another.

The spotlight is firmly on Thailand and it wont be switched off simply because they dont like it, people want to ask questions they will ask questions and they will say what they think, especially if it is clearly anti this or that. The more people outside are told to mind their own business the less they will be likely to, this alludes there is something to hide which of course peaks the curiosity to dig even deeper something which isnt allowed inside Thailand..... this is good as this will eventually force people here and Thai students elsewhere to confront the limitations they live under in Thailand at the moment.

The tap in freedom of information and thought is turned on here the same as anywhere with the internet, it will not be turned off by making stupid statements designed for the local populous, the international community simply dosnt care to be told what to do where freedom to speech and to form their own opinion is concerned.

If something is seen as being anti democratic by the international community then itll be said it is. The ones with the problem are the group here that think they can fool the Thai people, expect the rest of the world to shut up and think they will lol not a chance and rightly so, if Thais cannot call it what it is be assured other nations will not hesitate to.

Thailand likes all the trappings of international stardom it will have to deal with the interest of the worlds press and values too, what a shame.......

For that I accuse Abhisit of not having his eyes and ears open when in Oxford. All Thais I meet and communicate with after their study abroad; they have a wide view, dare to critise topics in their homeland. I admire them. Thrre are not puppets on a string.

[gerry1011]

The present situation is very simple.

The minority wants power over the majority.

That's it.

All the rest is just endless bla bla bla to justify the above.

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Bender]

Remember we are logicaly thinking people! Thainess is something else. We will never understand.

On Stage 12th of Jan, Vera a protest leader had another explanation than "logic" why Farangs don't get it:

12:45 at Asoke protest stage, media personality Seri Wongmontha veers into anti-foreigner rant. "Do they think we're stupid?" (Cont'd)

"It's proven ppl w/ yellow skin are smarter than ppl w/ white skin... Thais who study abroad get better marks than their classmates."

Collapse [/b]

We are just too dumb to understand Thainess, maybe the network of medical volunteers can add that to their little letter.

"It's proven ppl w/ yellow skin are smarter than ppl w/ white skin... Thais who study abroad get better marks than their classmates."

Collapse [/b]

Really? Honestly i still have to meet a thai/asian that i would qualify as a genius. Back home, western europe is full filled with brains.

In Bangkok i do have a lot of friends from Thammasat, people who do works as engineer, architect, etc, people who are well educated, really smart.

But honestly, they still lag behind their european counterpart, in any fields...

also, i still have to meet a thai, that i would consider to be more clever than me

[surangw]

conflict supported by simple minds gets simple view

( note the con part of conflict)

[kikoman]

Kikoman

Please enlighten me on your "un-simplistic" view of Democracy, and where was it practiced in Germany in 1938, or Russia in 1956 or Iran in 1999, most of them also favored appointment to positions of power vs a free election.

One thing I am quite certain of the US would never back an anti-democrat mob over an elected leader that won in a land slide in the 2011 election!

Having lived under a half decent democracy most of my life and watched its ideals deteriorate to where I no longer cared to live there, one thing they do, is go by the book!

Cheers

rogerdee123

Here the people tend to think the "book" is the "thai constitution". And the current Govt's not following the" book" is what started this protest.

Kikoman

If the book was the Thai Constitution, if they would have gone by the book, they would have brought Yingluck up on charges in the "books" impeachment process.

So tell me what is your take on the Suthep and his mob not following the book, that calls for an election 60 days after the dissolution of the House and knowingly violating Thailand's law on the unlawful takeover of government office etc.

Would be an interesting read!

Cheers

Edited January 23, 2014 by kikoman

[NovaBlue05]

The US will always take the side with what ever is in their beast best interest...

As does any self respecting western.....or eastern for that matter, nation

[rwdrwdrwd]

Remember we are logicaly thinking people! Thainess is something else. We will never understand.

On Stage 12th of Jan, Vera a protest leader had another explanation than "logic" why Farangs don't get it:

12:45 at Asoke protest stage, media personality Seri Wongmontha veers into anti-foreigner rant. "Do they think we're stupid?" (Cont'd)

"It's proven ppl w/ yellow skin are smarter than ppl w/ white skin... Thais who study abroad get better marks than their classmates."

Collapse [/b]

We are just too dumb to understand Thainess, maybe the network of medical volunteers can add that to their little letter.

"It's proven ppl w/ yellow skin are smarter than ppl w/ white skin... Thais who study abroad get better marks than their classmates."

Collapse [/b]

Really? Honestly i still have to meet a thai/asian that i would qualify as a genius. Back home, western europe is full filled with brains.

In Bangkok i do have a lot of friends from Thammasat, people who do works as engineer, architect, etc, people who are well educated, really smart.

But honestly, they still lag behind their european counterpart, in any fields...

also, i still have to meet a thai, that i would consider to be more clever than me

Really, you're just displaying the same ignorance as Dr Seri here, what you are saying, in a less direct manner, is "I think ppl w/ white skin are smarter than ppl w/ yellow skin... I never met a person with yellow skin cleverer than me."

[pxlgirl]

"Group warns US against simplistic view of Thai conflict"

wow... the US must be scared shitless now

[DrTuner]

Is there like a bulletin board somewhere that says "talk to farangs, talk to US". Or perhaps they are relying on foxs news to sing their gospel. Deutsche Welle it won't be.

To me it looks like Thailands foreign relations are being handled as "hey you white boy, hear us out".

"

[Bender]

Remember we are logicaly thinking people! Thainess is something else. We will never understand.

On Stage 12th of Jan, Vera a protest leader had another explanation than "logic" why Farangs don't get it:

12:45 at Asoke protest stage, media personality Seri Wongmontha veers into anti-foreigner rant. "Do they think we're stupid?" (Cont'd)

"It's proven ppl w/ yellow skin are smarter than ppl w/ white skin... Thais who study abroad get better marks than their classmates."

Collapse [/b]

We are just too dumb to understand Thainess, maybe the network of medical volunteers can add that to their little letter.

"It's proven ppl w/ yellow skin are smarter than ppl w/ white skin... Thais who study abroad get better marks than their classmates."

Collapse [/b]

Really? Honestly i still have to meet a thai/asian that i would qualify as a genius. Back home, western europe is full filled with brains.

In Bangkok i do have a lot of friends from Thammasat, people who do works as engineer, architect, etc, people who are well educated, really smart.

But honestly, they still lag behind their european counterpart, in any fields...

also, i still have to meet a thai, that i would consider to be more clever than me

Really, you're just displaying the same ignorance as Dr Seri here, what you are saying, in a less direct manner, is "I think ppl w/ white skin are smarter than ppl w/ yellow skin... I never met a person with yellow skin cleverer than me."

"...Dr Seri"

and you dare to call him to call him doctor , wonder what should be my title?

President Bender, well i like it!

more seriously, asian people are only good for copy... thats a pure fact. Do you expect the hiv cure to be found in asia, honestly? It will be either in western Europe or USA. (Well they might found the generic version )

[tilac2]

Yingluck was seen recently on CNN, in a clip so unclear, she had to be accompanied by captions. And yet those who read the captions needn't have bothered. She doesn't actually say anything. She may as well be speaking in Swahili. There was a belligerence in her tone, however, as if she is fed up to the teeth with people who can't understand that her administration is just doing its job. The problem - as always - regarding the American and international perception of the situation here - is that it can't possibly be condensed into the 30 second soundbite. The problem with Yingluck - is that she is still struggling to fill the 30 seconds.

Please, what point are you trying to make?

[tilac2]

Remember we are logicaly thinking people! Thainess is something else. We will never understand.

On Stage 12th of Jan, Vera a protest leader had another explanation than "logic" why Farangs don't get it:

12:45 at Asoke protest stage, media personality Seri Wongmontha veers into anti-foreigner rant. "Do they think we're stupid?" (Cont'd)

"It's proven ppl w/ yellow skin are smarter than ppl w/ white skin... Thais who study abroad get better marks than their classmates."

Collapse [/b]

We are just too dumb to understand Thainess, maybe the network of medical volunteers can add that to their little letter.

"Do they think we're stupid?"

Is that a rhetorical question?

Interesting thing is, he is right about one thing. Asian students in North American universities, on average, do a lot better than their white counterparts. When my daughter did her Pre-med, she noticed it too and kept saying how smart Asian people are and how easy knowledge seems to come to them.

Then, when we took our Thai, teenage daughter, to Canada, to do her middle school, she had almost straight A's, (except for a B or two), in her second year. That was, after skipping a year, because they wanted her in the same age group, so she jumped a grade ahead in Canada and still excelled.

So you think Asians are so clever, and then the next post says that some Asians by name of Yingluck are stupid?

Seems to be some conflict there?

Possibly the answer is that all humans are basically of much the same intelligence; and furthermore that Yingluck is no less intelligent than politicians in the west?

[rwdrwdrwd]

"...Dr Seri"

and you dare to call him to call him doctor , wonder what should be my title?

President Bender, well i like it!

more seriously, asian people are only good for copy... thats a pure fact. Do you expect the hiv cure to be found in asia, honestly? It will be either in western Europe or USA. (Well they might found the generic version )

He is a Dr, though I also think what he reputedly said was extremely ignorant. I'm pretty sure you're not a President, though admittedly I wouldn't rule out the Bush lineage.

As for the HIV cure, yeah maybe - the use of chemotherapy as a cure was pioneered by an asian gentleman for example, despite him not being white!

Do you know where paper, printing, the compass and gunpowder originated?

Edited January 23, 2014 by rwdrwdrwd

[Jay Sata]

You don't see this problem in Vietnam but then they had a few hundred years of good French colonial tuition that made them intelligent enough to beat the USA.

Sadly Thailand is still on a big learning curve.

Their military rolled over without a whimper when Japan invaded in the second world war.

Lack of discipline and widespread corruption are the biggest problem in the land of smiles.

As someone suggested elsewhere there is logical thinking and there is Thainess!

[citizen33]

So perhaps you could share the actual words used by the USA, China, Canada, the UK, Australia and the EU.

It is true that the Governments of these nations have issued only guarded public statements. It is also the case that certain Thailand-based Western journalists complain frequently in fringe publications about Western interference in Thai affairs. However, the links below indicate that the chattering classes in many countries are beginning to reach similar conclusions about the anti-government movement.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/editorials/thailand-needs-an-election/story-e6frg71x-1226803564488

http://blogs.ft.com/the-a-list/2013/12/12/respect-for-democracy-in-thailand-needs-support/#axzz2rFjhc2Uv

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2014/01/19/commentary/time-to-speak-up-in-defense-of-thai-democracy/#.UuF0ERBFDIU

http://www.crisisgroup.org/en/publication-type/alerts/2014/thailand-conflict-alert.aspx

Do these conclusions represent a simplified view of Thai politics? I'd say that many foreign observers understand the dispositions of the traditional Thai elite and their middle class supporters all too well. Groups like the medical volunteers might be wise to pay attention to what they say. As I think an upper middle-class informant told Chris Baker in a corporate seminar, ' I think I understand what you are saying. They know us, but we don't know them'.

Edited January 23, 2014 by citizen33

[Thai at Heart]

Remember we are logicaly thinking people! Thainess is something else. We will never understand.

On Stage 12th of Jan, Vera a protest leader had another explanation than "logic" why Farangs don't get it:

12:45 at Asoke protest stage, media personality Seri Wongmontha veers into anti-foreigner rant. "Do they think we're stupid?" (Cont'd)

"It's proven ppl w/ yellow skin are smarter than ppl w/ white skin... Thais who study abroad get better marks than their classmates."

Collapse [/b]

We are just too dumb to understand Thainess, maybe the network of medical volunteers can add that to their little letter.

"It's proven ppl w/ yellow skin are smarter than ppl w/ white skin... Thais who study abroad get better marks than their classmates."

Collapse [/b]

Really? Honestly i still have to meet a thai/asian that i would qualify as a genius. Back home, western europe is full filled with brains.

In Bangkok i do have a lot of friends from Thammasat, people who do works as engineer, architect, etc, people who are well educated, really smart.

But honestly, they still lag behind their european counterpart, in any fields...

also, i still have to meet a thai, that i would consider to be more clever than me

I've met one and she studied physics at Manchester university. She's a lecturer and tried to ask me about stephen Hawkings book that I had on the shelf at home.

She is a genuine academic scholar. All the rest. Nope.

[Thai at Heart]

Is there like a bulletin board somewhere that says "talk to farangs, talk to US". Or perhaps they are relying on foxs news to sing their gospel. Deutsche Welle it won't be.

To me it looks like Thailands foreign relations are being handled as "hey you white boy, hear us out".

"

Particularly when it's by a bunch of people who are appointing themselves as intelligent.

Thailand, virtually at the bottom of the ratings for south east Asia academically, pleading with the world to understand their educated middle class.

And they wonder why no one wants to listen.

There there children, calm down and do your colouring while mummy cooks dinner.

[englishoak]

There are plenty of smart Thais just like anywhere, a large problem is they cannot speak how they please here so in the main have made better lives for themselves where they can grow and be themselves. I have many Thai friends in other countries and nearly all feel as the majority here do, Elections must be kept as sacred to any process of choosing a governing body.

It is only in a closed inward looking society these crazy ideas fester, the British made the mistake hundreds of years ago by keeping themselves separate when trying to rule another country and fiegning superiority, it dosnt work in the long term.

The Chinese had this crazy idea that they descended from a different gene-pool than the rest that came out of Africa, they did the largest genetic DNS survey ever undertaken to prove that they were different and therefore superior and special. The scientist who took this on was convinced at the outset this was true, after a good 500k samples ranging from all over China there was not one that showed any different genetic DNA pool than the rest of us forcing him by sheer weight of evidence to conclude he had been wrong all the time. There was nothing genetically on a historical basis different at all.

The parent or in this case the society a person grows up in will mould a lot of that persons make up, get them out of that environment they will turn out very different, a few years as a student abroad youd think would be great until you realise that 90% stick with Thais, speak Thai and eat Thai the whole time they are away, therefore it helps little in affecting their thinking, attitude or tastes. They come back and carry right on being as arrogant, the only reason they arnt seen as that while away is they do not mix much outside their own small circle of elite buddies and girlfriends. Generally they come back as limited in thinking as they were before they left but will wave that bit of paper about and pretend they are worldly wise, this is far from the case although this isnt true about all it is true about the majority I have come to know or crossed paths with both here and back at home.

[Thai at Heart]

There are plenty of smart Thais just like anywhere, a large problem is they cannot speak how they please here so in the main have made better lives for themselves where they can grow and be themselves. I have many Thai friends in other countries and nearly all feel as the majority here do, Elections must be kept as sacred to any process of choosing a governing body.

It is only in a closed inward looking society these crazy ideas fester, the British made the mistake hundreds of years ago by keeping themselves separate when trying to rule another country and fiegning superiority, it dosnt work in the long term.

The Chinese had this crazy idea that they descended from a different gene-pool than the rest that came out of Africa, they did the largest genetic DNS survey ever undertaken to prove that they were different and therefore superior and special. The scientist who took this on was convinced at the outset this was true, after a good 500k samples ranging from all over China there was not one that showed any different genetic DNA pool than the rest of us forcing him by sheer weight of evidence to conclude he had been wrong all the time. There was nothing genetically on a historical basis different at all.

The parent or in this case the society a person grows up in will mould a lot of that persons make up, get them out of that environment they will turn out very different, a few years as a student abroad youd think would be great until you realise that 90% stick with Thais, speak Thai and eat Thai the whole time they are away, therefore it helps little in affecting their thinking, attitude or tastes. They come back and carry right on being as arrogant, the only reason they arnt seen as that while away is they do not mix much outside their own small circle of elite buddies and girlfriends. Generally they come back as limited in thinking as they were before they left but will wave that bit of paper about and pretend they are worldly wise, this is far from the case although this isnt true about all it is true about the majority I have come to know or crossed paths with both here and back at home.

At the very least, one can read oneself to knowledge, then one can reason oneself to wisdom.

If you don't read, and you don't reason, you have a long way to go.

[englishoak]

There are plenty of smart Thais just like anywhere, a large problem is they cannot speak how they please here so in the main have made better lives for themselves where they can grow and be themselves. I have many Thai friends in other countries and nearly all feel as the majority here do, Elections must be kept as sacred to any process of choosing a governing body.

It is only in a closed inward looking society these crazy ideas fester, the British made the mistake hundreds of years ago by keeping themselves separate when trying to rule another country and fiegning superiority, it dosnt work in the long term.

The Chinese had this crazy idea that they descended from a different gene-pool than the rest that came out of Africa, they did the largest genetic DNS survey ever undertaken to prove that they were different and therefore superior and special. The scientist who took this on was convinced at the outset this was true, after a good 500k samples ranging from all over China there was not one that showed any different genetic DNA pool than the rest of us forcing him by sheer weight of evidence to conclude he had been wrong all the time. There was nothing genetically on a historical basis different at all.

The parent or in this case the society a person grows up in will mould a lot of that persons make up, get them out of that environment they will turn out very different, a few years as a student abroad youd think would be great until you realise that 90% stick with Thais, speak Thai and eat Thai the whole time they are away, therefore it helps little in affecting their thinking, attitude or tastes. They come back and carry right on being as arrogant, the only reason they arnt seen as that while away is they do not mix much outside their own small circle of elite buddies and girlfriends. Generally they come back as limited in thinking as they were before they left but will wave that bit of paper about and pretend they are worldly wise, this is far from the case although this isnt true about all it is true about the majority I have come to know or crossed paths with both here and back at home.

At the very least, one can read oneself to knowledge, then one can reason oneself to wisdom.

If you don't read, and you don't reason, you have a long way to go.

To do that you must have a society that encourages this, do you see a vast library of choice book wise here or people reading a lot ? Nope nor do I.

Exactly your point they have a long long way to go.

[PaullyW]

There are plenty of smart Thais just like anywhere, a large problem is they cannot speak how they please here so in the main have made better lives for themselves where they can grow and be themselves. I have many Thai friends in other countries and nearly all feel as the majority here do, Elections must be kept as sacred to any process of choosing a governing body.

It is only in a closed inward looking society these crazy ideas fester, the British made the mistake hundreds of years ago by keeping themselves separate when trying to rule another country and fiegning superiority, it dosnt work in the long term.

The Chinese had this crazy idea that they descended from a different gene-pool than the rest that came out of Africa, they did the largest genetic DNS survey ever undertaken to prove that they were different and therefore superior and special. The scientist who took this on was convinced at the outset this was true, after a good 500k samples ranging from all over China there was not one that showed any different genetic DNA pool than the rest of us forcing him by sheer weight of evidence to conclude he had been wrong all the time. There was nothing genetically on a historical basis different at all.

The parent or in this case the society a person grows up in will mould a lot of that persons make up, get them out of that environment they will turn out very different, a few years as a student abroad youd think would be great until you realise that 90% stick with Thais, speak Thai and eat Thai the whole time they are away, therefore it helps little in affecting their thinking, attitude or tastes. They come back and carry right on being as arrogant, the only reason they arnt seen as that while away is they do not mix much outside their own small circle of elite buddies and girlfriends. Generally they come back as limited in thinking as they were before they left but will wave that bit of paper about and pretend they are worldly wise, this is far from the case although this isnt true about all it is true about the majority I have come to know or crossed paths with both here and back at home.

True indeed. I, too, know many Thais who live abroad or younger Thais who go to school outside of Thailand. And, just a short point - I am so often let down by their persisting nationalism and arrogance. I find it scary that so many seem unable or uninterested to expand their thinking. One always has such high hopes for what should be reasonably modern people who, if nothing else, are open to honest discussion (both positive AND negative) regarding Thailand. But, I find that many (if not most) I know seem to be perhaps even more nationalistic than their 'less educated', less traveled countrymen. I do not encounter the same attitudes from people hailing from other under developed countries. Something about Thai nationalism is so powerful that has even 'elite', 'international', 'educated' Thais, on average, unable to actually mature in their views at all.

It's one of the reasons I really don't have any desire to get close to any Thais (and esp not Thai men who, by virtue of being male & Thai, have nothing I need). I've been let down so many times that I stopped trying. Thais and reasonably educated Westerners simply do not mix well.

Edited January 23, 2014 by PaullyW

[noitom]

The Thai issues and social divide did not start with Thaksin. Thailand has been a festering and corrupted country since well before Suthep, Thaksin, Sondhi and many others. In another sense, the PDRC protest could be viewed as anarchy and sedition and totally opposed to democracy. Suthep and his people don't want ordinary Thais that are not part of the "inside network" to have a vote. They say that ordinary underclass Thai farmers, laborers and workers don't understand or know enough to vote, so says Suthep's people and numerous establishment cronies many times before. Many Thai establishment characters refer to them as stupid. For this group of medical volunteer workers to be warning the US about democracy is preposterous.

[PaullyW]

Is there like a bulletin board somewhere that says "talk to farangs, talk to US". Or perhaps they are relying on foxs news to sing their gospel. Deutsche Welle it won't be.

To me it looks like Thailands foreign relations are being handled as "hey you white boy, hear us out".

"

Yes, so strange. Almost otherworldly. Why so many Thais across the spectrum of education credentials here (and abroad) are so concerned with what non-Thais think of them. But, their concern does seem to match with their pathetic and persistent attention to Thailand's image at the expense of anything else much more important than image.

A country full of people who cannot shake their

nationalism (as opposed to patriotism which does not really exist in Thailand),

focus on image over substance - I've seen NO Thais opinions that are well-informed and intellectually sound and that goes for all the biggest personalities here like 'Dr. Seri' for example

FACE as something so hide behind rather than something to motivate their society to be honorable

Thailand is a most bizarre place indeed. To the Westerner living here for any extended period of time, it would be no big secret as to why Thailand is so un developed (as opposed to developing as I do NOT agree they are developing, not in any significantly important area).

Sad country.

[noitom]

There are plenty of smart Thais just like anywhere, a large problem is they cannot speak how they please here so in the main have made better lives for themselves where they can grow and be themselves. I have many Thai friends in other countries and nearly all feel as the majority here do, Elections must be kept as sacred to any process of choosing a governing body.

It is only in a closed inward looking society these crazy ideas fester, the British made the mistake hundreds of years ago by keeping themselves separate when trying to rule another country and fiegning superiority, it dosnt work in the long term.

The Chinese had this crazy idea that they descended from a different gene-pool than the rest that came out of Africa, they did the largest genetic DNS survey ever undertaken to prove that they were different and therefore superior and special. The scientist who took this on was convinced at the outset this was true, after a good 500k samples ranging from all over China there was not one that showed any different genetic DNA pool than the rest of us forcing him by sheer weight of evidence to conclude he had been wrong all the time. There was nothing genetically on a historical basis different at all.

The parent or in this case the society a person grows up in will mould a lot of that persons make up, get them out of that environment they will turn out very different, a few years as a student abroad youd think would be great until you realise that 90% stick with Thais, speak Thai and eat Thai the whole time they are away, therefore it helps little in affecting their thinking, attitude or tastes. They come back and carry right on being as arrogant, the only reason they arnt seen as that while away is they do not mix much outside their own small circle of elite buddies and girlfriends. Generally they come back as limited in thinking as they were before they left but will wave that bit of paper about and pretend they are worldly wise, this is far from the case although this isnt true about all it is true about the majority I have come to know or crossed paths with both here and back at home.

Good points - Makes a lot of sense.

[pxlgirl]

there are smart people in every every country, just as there are stupid ones. But the question is, can the smart people live up to who they are? As we all know, the education in Thailand doesn't embrace critical thinking and/or questioning. It stops right there for most, as they simply give up on themselves and become apathetic. Add the financial status (or the lack thereof) to the mix and they'd get bullied for being (too) poor (and therefore stupid), and would never get a chance to achieve anything, even if they wanted to.