Alcohol.

[Griffin]

I, like most people in BKK, drink more than I ever did at home, but how much is too much? By this I don't mean the accepted 21 units for men etc.

I have begun to notice that I'm possibly overdoing it. By that I don't mean I am waking up covered in sick and missng a shoe. I rarely go out and drink around the house or across the street for a few and not enough to affect my work or family. It's the fact that it has become everynight that has started to worry me as one of my parents was an alcoholic. I'm not under stress and feel perfectly happy, so it can't be that.

Can you become addicted to alcohol at a mild level? I know alcoholism is just that but it reminds me of people getting into fights they don't remember. The worst I've done is forget to un-plug the cooker. At least we know the fire alarm works.

Am I at the top of a slippery slope? Any thoughts?

[Captain Chaos]

I'm sure you can become addicted, even if you're not missing a shoe If something has become habitual and is every day, then it could be a problem.

Try not drinking at all for a week, including the weekend. If that is a problem for you, then it might be worth checking in more detail, maybe ask the doc.

Hope this helps.

CC

PS. I stopped drinking for one month a few years back, in order to kickstart a diet. First weekend was terrible, as it's surprising how many social activities include alcohol somewhere! In the end I got very good at Playstation!!

[Phano]

[Mate you could be at that point just before you realise you cannot do without a drink. The border line into alcoholism is so thin, most times people do not know they have crossed it and are into trouble.

Advice (it has worked for me) Try going without a drink for a couple of days. if you miss it so terribly that you end up saying what the heck, BIG TROUBLE! However if you can go on without for long

Try being a social drinker. i.e drink whenever there is company. I have been in very many new places and I always tend to drink more than my usual and only afterwards do I realise that it is a very subtle sign of loneliness/homesickness/settling in or whatever emotion that rules then.

Been lucky this time round in Bangkok (been here 5 months) I have not done so because now I do have a family of my own and besides The World's Best drink= Guinness Foreign Extra Stout is hard to come by and ###### expensive!!!

[PeaceBlondie]

I got drunk a lot between ages 18 and 22; my best friend said I was well onto the road to alcoholism. One of my sons was alcoholic by age 14. I didn't drink a drop from 22 to 58. Finally I decided to drink again, but I made a list when NOT to drink.

1. Never drink when mad, depressed, or simply bored.

2. Never drink when the car keys or motorcycle keys are in the pocket.

3. Never drink as much as you can handle (in my case, that limited me to one drink per six hours).

4. Never drink just because other folks insist upon it. It's not their liver.

The list could have been longer.

Ethyl alcohol is a POISON. Toxins intoxicate you. Poisons make you sick. Alcohol affects every cell in your body, especially your nervous system.

Why should there be a 'safe amount' of a poison that has killed more people than anything other than warfare?

I suggest that the original poster try going without any beer, wine, or hard liquor for one week to ten years. Thirty-six years worked fine for me; I never missed it. Now, I'm all the way up to about one drink a week. Try popcorn:

One of the most unnecessary things in all of life, and the most dangerous.

My personal, biased opinion based on 45 years as an adult.

[Griffin]

Thankyou one and all for your responses and/or advice. I may have tip-toed around the facts a little. I have seen some of the indicators of a problem forming but have put them to back of my mind as I don't see the 'bad' ones. I am not a violent drunk nor have I ever been arrested or any of the shoeless type drunk stunts one sees, but I have tried the 'one week' at a time thing. I fail on the 3rd day.

This bothers/shames me as I would say that I have strong will power. I have forced myself to the top of mountains and overcome the fear of injury when I was younger.

So, what is it about drink that beats me?

I am maybe inclined to begin to edge toward addmitting that all is not right.

I have looked into the AA, but I would not be able to deal with any aspect of the church. Is there anyother 'help' out there? Hypnosis?

Capatin Chaos suggested trying the doctor. Has anyone tried this? I know there is no magic pill so what could he do?

Thanks once again for lending an 'ear'.

[Ausladyinpatong]

Thankyou one and all for your responses and/or advice. I may have tip-toed around the facts a little. I have seen some of the indicators of a problem forming but have put them to back of my mind as I don't see the 'bad' ones. I am not a violent drunk nor have I ever been arrested or any of the shoeless type drunk stunts one sees, but I have tried the 'one week' at a time thing. I fail on the 3rd day.

This bothers/shames me as I would say that I have strong will power. I have forced myself to the top of mountains and overcome the fear of injury when I was younger.

So, what is it about drink that beats me?

I am maybe inclined to begin to edge toward addmitting that all is not right.

I have looked into the AA, but I would not be able to deal with any aspect of the church. Is there anyother 'help' out there? Hypnosis?

Capatin Chaos suggested trying the doctor. Has anyone tried this? I know there is no magic pill so what could he do?

Thanks once again for lending an 'ear'.

You need a distraction. Find something else to do after work. Never just rely on will power, you need a plan.

Go to the gym

OR meet a friend or family member and stroll around Limpini park every evening before/after dinner(whenever it is that you usually drink). You need to change your usual routine. Excercise would be a great new habit.

Maybe plan a few weekly activities with a friend or family member also. Eg. Monday night: cinema, Wednesday night: Thai language class, ect. Join a sports team or club.

Maybe you can limit yourself to one night out drinking per week. One night when you're "allowed" to drink whatever you like without feeling guilty. Worst case scenario you find yourself living for Saturday nights! (Not unlike myself)

[Patex]

Am I at the top of a slippery slope?

I would say you are already sliding .

Since 30.12.05 I do a sabbatical year from my one (big) bottle Singha per evening addiction... there is no tolerable amount of any substance when it comes to addiction!

[Griffin]

Thanks patex. Do you have one a night or one on the turn of the year? Not sure i could do that. I may find myself saving em up for a big one. I think I know the answer to the questions I have asked.

I will speak to my better half and see what she says.

The thing I find hard to answer is why was I able to stop other drug use with out even noticing. Was it because I was much younger?

[markuk]

Thanks patex. Do you have one a night or one on the turn of the year? Not sure i could do that. I may find myself saving em up for a big one. I think I know the answer to the questions I have asked.

I will speak to my better half and see what she says.

The thing I find hard to answer is why was I able to stop other drug use with out even noticing. Was it because I was much younger?

hmmm i like a drink like most people and the question being asked is very similar to one i ask myself every week.

Yes you can alter your routine that has to be the best way to break any Habit, but if you are not getting drunk and it is not having any impact on your family / job and life then i dont see too much of a problem. I know when to stop and when to start, i tend not to drink over weekends as that is "family time" - this works for me and ensures i have 3 or so days without a drink - i also rarely drink at home.

Still the wife keeps naggin...... hehe...

[Griffin]

In all fairness Markuk, this is the first time I have publicly explored an idea. The part that bothers me most is thinking about drink during 'normal' times. Going for a walk to Lumpini park is nice but when I see those folks with buckets of cold drinks. I can't help but grab a beer.

I may not be having a negative effect on my family but I doubt I am having a positive effect. This bothers me. The fridge may be full and the schools are paid for but am I vague and distant?

I need to talk to she who must be obeyed now that I have had a few of my fears confirmed.

I answered a 9 on an online quiz......6 was a piss soaked wino. Because I dont see the "have you ever woken up on a runway" life I have doubts that I am there.

The daft thing is I need a few beers to get onto the subject.

Let's see how it goes.

Thanks

[britmaveric]

Does your life revolve around alcohol? Try going a week without a drink - not hard and should give you an estimation if you do have a problem.

I normally only drink socially or when away on travel.

[markuk]

In all fairness Markuk, this is the first time I have publicly explored an idea. The part that bothers me most is thinking about drink during 'normal' times. Going for a walk to Lumpini park is nice but when I see those folks with buckets of cold drinks. I can't help but grab a beer.

I may not be having a negative effect on my family but I doubt I am having a positive effect. This bothers me. The fridge may be full and the schools are paid for but am I vague and distant?

I need to talk to she who must be obeyed now that I have had a few of my fears confirmed.

I answered a 9 on an online quiz......6 was a piss soaked wino. Because I dont see the "have you ever woken up on a runway" life I have doubts that I am there.

The daft thing is I need a few beers to get onto the subject.

Let's see how it goes.

Thanks

do you drink alone or with the same people, often friendship / companionship is what you are looking for and the social scene rather than the drink itself, if you were spending all your time drinking alone then that would be cause for concern. IMO

[PeaceBlondie]

Griffin,

My apologies to you if I was too..preachy. My son was in AA from age 16 to...well, he's probably back in AA if he's still sober now, at age 30.

AA isn't churchy. All you have to believe in is that there is a higher power than you. You can believe that a doorknob is a higher power. Even people who were terribly abused by religion find that there's so little 'religion' in AA that they can handle it.

There are lots of addictions; among Westerners, alcohol is the most common, way ahead of work, sex, chocolate, obesity, or cigarrettes.

Most of the AA folks I met said that until they got sober, they couldn't handle the other addictions and problems in their life.

You said something, in your first post, about how it seems that most expatriates, or most of the folks you know in Bangkok, drink heavily. Maybe so. Maybe not. You might try finding people and places and situations where sobriety is normal.

Good luck.

[Prakanong2005]

Some good posts there and Peaceblondies one about bot drinking when mad or bored is an excellent point - I would add depressed to that one as well though.

When I lived in Bangkok I drank more than I ever did in the UK.

Last year I noticed I was drinking more and more in Belgium too and going out most nights straight after work as well as all day sessions on the weekend with one day in particular going from 10 one morning till 4 the next.

That together with the fact I was feeling shit at work as well as having a lot of infections and ailments from gout to kidney stones told me it was getting out of hand.

Since November I have only had a drink in Belgium one time - after the Cup Final this year and then it was not too much - I do not miss it.

When back in the UK I will go out with pals but its not that much.

I do have a good bevvy when I am in Thailand but also rest one day in three or so. When i went to Singapore in the middle of my last holiday I had three glasses of wine and one beer at ca free bar so that was fine.

I think the advice about taking a rest and seeing how much you miss it is good - I really do not miss it on work nights and can go weeks without it between visits home or to Thailand.

[libya 115]

With Booze you lose.

With Dope there's hope.

Just something I heard, I will stick with booze.

Imagine this; beer is causing you to lose friends, destroy relationships, be violent, lie and cheat and steal and abuse trusted friends. Imagine you destroy a career, end up in the gutter with no money, perhaps attempt suicide, the list goes on. Then you have a problem.

It sounds as if the O.P. has some guilt at drinking more than 21 units per week (as a male).

It is not the amount, but the above mentioned terrible consequences.

You either have a problem or you do not.

If you do. quit. There is no alternative.

If you do not have a problem, continue, get drunk and enjoy it.

The biological factors, are slim in comparison to the 'commando course' of the soul, that you will go through if addiction to alcohol 'kicks-in'.

There are many wise posts above mine. In fact, it is an excellent thread. In Thailand, it is so easy to drink too much.

The face of a heavy drinker is familiar to us all. Red faced and bloodshot eyes, sitting at the table drinking Chang at 10.30 am. Examine the table-talk of a drinker; it is all familiar stuff, to friends and family. Alcohol damages the brain; this is medical fact, but it is a slow process. Judgement is impaired.

Personality changes. Anxiety and depression surface and soon that 'fun' heavy drinking is a hopeless mire of angst.

To those who choose to tread the heavy drinking 'Chang' path, I say good luck. You might survive. But I say in 90% of cases it will end in self-destruction.

[Phil Conners]

There are lots of addictions; among Westerners, alcohol is the most common, way ahead of work, sex, chocolate, obesity, or cigarrettes.

Disagree with you on that. I think cigarettes are a bigger problem than alcohol in that more people are addicted to it and that it causes more health problems. Besides, as a drunk you don't really affect other people's health (unless you try driving of course).

[Patsycat]

What if you are a heavy drinker and a heavy smoker at the same time? Choose your coffin...?

[alexth]

I once meet a brit who told me that one who doesn't have 15 beers/day, it's not a man...of course I haven't followed the advice, for me, bout a bottle of Jack Daniels/week...it's maybe more than enough

[kc_phil]

how mch is enough? i dunno....maybe these guys do...

http://www.aathailand.org/

[NovaBlue05]

I once meet a brit who told me that one who doesn't have 15 beers/day, it's not a man...of course I haven't followed the advice, for me, bout a bottle of Jack Daniels/week...it's maybe more than enough

Well.....You're practically a tee totaler

[CSX]

The first step in recovery is admitting there is a problem or potential problem.

Maybe, just maybe you can nip it in the bud now and not have to experience some of the more horrific experiences that can accompany alcoholism.

AA is your best bet for help!! Their is no church at all about the organization. They do talk about a God of "your understanding"!!!

And if God keeps you away, then Alcohol will send you back.

It's a twelve step program. { one requirment is being honest. }

Confusious says; The man takes a drink, The drink takes a drink, The drink takes the man.

Go to 30 meetings for 30 days without a drink, if you don't like what you hear, they will gladly refund your misery.

Some people never realize or believe they have a problem. Therefore lose everything; Job, Family, Friends, House, Health, Self Respect, Etc.

Just my 2 cents. God Bless and good luck.

[Pattayatony]

You are on the way to becoming an Alcoholic if it is costing you more than money.

AA has nothing to do with any church or religion except meetings are often held in church halls or rooms provided. This is because its usually cheap rent and AA is a non profit group. The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. If you need any info about it you can PM me. Cheers and good luck.

[Gary A]

I don't think I could be an alcoholic because my hangovers are so bad. I go to a small shop up on a mountain about three times a week to drink beer with a few friends. I rarely drink at home. The only time I drink two days in a row are if friends come to visit or if I visit the city. (Bangkok or Pattaya/Jomtien).

[lampard10]

40 years at an average of over a bottle of spirits a day is enough. I quit.

[PeaceBlondie]

There are lots of addictions; among Westerners, alcohol is the most common, way ahead of work, sex, chocolate, obesity, or cigarrettes.

Disagree with you on that. I think cigarettes are a bigger problem than alcohol in that more people are addicted to it and that it causes more health problems. Besides, as a drunk you don't really affect other people's health (unless you try driving of course).

Actually, that part of my statement was about commonness, but perhaps you're right. In some cultures, more people smoke tobacco than drink alcohol, if it matters. Not sure, really - published surveys in the USA say that only 50% of all adults drink alcohol.

Where we can agree to disagree is that a drunk doesn't really affect other people, unless you drive. If you just mean other people's health, okay. But alcohol use is hardly a "victimless act." It can affect every part of the drinker's life, his family, his job, his finances, and total strangers.

Maybe I'm some kind of weirdo or hypocrite, but it bothers me when heavy drinkers think they're not doing themselves, loved ones, or society at large a lot of harm. The casual jokes about total drunkenness don't strike me as the least bit funny: "Hey man, like wow, I know I'm a man because down at the petrol station, I sipped ten ounces of benzene before going stone blind last night, ha ha, isn't that macho, clever, and funny?"

[Sheryl]

I have tried the 'one week' at a time thing. I fail on the 3rd day.

That settles it. You are, be definition, an alcoholic.

This bothers/shames me as I would say that I have strong will power. I have forced myself to the top of mountains and overcome the fear of injury when I was younger.

So, what is it about drink that beats me?

Alcoholism is a disease -- a complex one with physical, psychological and even spirtitual dimensions. Genetics can also play a role. You cannot sure a disease through willpower alone.

I am maybe inclined to begin to edge toward addmitting that all is not right.

I have looked into the AA, but I would not be able to deal with any aspect of the church. Is there anyother 'help' out there? Hypnosis?

Capatin Chaos suggested trying the doctor. Has anyone tried this? I know there is no magic pill so what could he do?

Being able to admit to the problem is the first step, so that's good. As another poster siad, AA is not involved with any church or organized religion and people of all religions and no religion can join and benefit from it. It does make use of spiritual support, but that spirituality consists of no more than accepting the need for and possibility of help from a power outside yourself (as you note, will power has already failed you). That "higher power"could be some sort of idea of God, but it could also be nature, or even the AA group you join. Each person finds the understanding of a high power that works for them. It doesn't matter what the Hight Power is -- what is important is what it is not: it is not you or your will power.

In my experience both as a health professional and person with plenty of alcoholic friends and relations, I have only ever seen 2 things work: AA and vipassana meditation. They are perfectly compatible together. Vipassana if practiced seriously will eradicate addictions of any type, but the problem is that people with an addiction are often unable to practice it. To get started, you would have to do a 10 day retreat with no alcohol (and no a lot of other things too, like talking....). It's hard for anyone the first time and for people with an active addiciton I usually advise them to at least get to the point where they can easily go 10 days without using/drinking before trying a meditation retreat, as meditation is difficult enough the first time without battling with alcohol or drug cravings simukltaneously. But if you do want to try it -- now, or later -- you you can PM me for more info and suggestions on where.

Personally I suggest you go to AA as soon as possible. Feel free to express your misgivings about religion from the onset; you'll find plenty of others who had the same concerns. Don't know where you are in Thailand but iof in BKK there are several eetings to choose from, if you don't feel comfortable with the people in one, try another. Read the literature, try to get a sponsor, and give the program a chance.

Actually there IS a pill that will prevent you from drinking, it's been around for a long time and is available over the counter in Thailand. Problem is that it works not by removing the desire for alcohol but by causing you to have very unpleasant reactions (vomiting, headache etc) if you takle even a small amount. So people naturally are tempted to stop taking it so that they can continue to drink. However some people find it helpful, especially if the urge to drink comes only from time to time (like at parties) and they are able to summon up the discipline to take the pill regularly.

If you want more info on this medication, PM me. It's cheap, but it should be warned that if it is taken and a large amount of alchol ingested, the resulting reaction can be life-threatening, so there are risks associated with its use. Also, it cannot be started until you have been at least several days without any alcohol at all.

Good luck

[Neeranam]

Simple test to find out if your an alcoholic.

There is a big difference between a heavy drinker and an alcoholic.

Go out and have a drink and stop after a couple. Then have soft drinks the rest of the night.

If you feel uneasy or crave more, there is a good chance you are an alkie. If you can do that there is a good chance you're not.

When I quit, I was taking 2 large bottles of "Sang Thip" a day plus 200mg of valium. 20 years of abuse got me sick and tired of feeling sick and tired.

[Sheryl]

He already said that he is unable to go more than 3 days without a drink...I think that already qualifies.

Alcoholics come in all types & sizes. Some don't drink very heavily but must drink regularly. Some can't stop once they start (like what you describe)

I've known alcoholics who drink only in the evenings and can limit the amount (although not as much as one might recommend) and therefore refuse to believe they are alcoholics. But they are incapable of going without.

It's the element of compulsion/dependency that defines alcoholism, not the amount drunk or even the pattern or frequency (some alcoholics can go without until there is some stressor in their life, then they have to drink in order to cope).

And, as you noter, there are some heavy drinkers who are not alcholics. (And a lot more who don't know if they are alcoholics because they've never tried to stop or cut down!).

[libya 115]

Simple test to find out if your an alcoholic.

There is a big difference between a heavy drinker and an alcoholic.

Go out and have a drink and stop after a couple. Then have soft drinks the rest of the night.

If you feel uneasy or crave more, there is a good chance you are an alkie. If you can do that there is a good chance you're not.

When I quit, I was taking 2 large bottles of "Sang Thip" a day plus 200mg of valium. 20 years of abuse got me sick and tired of feeling sick and tired.

200mg of valium?? you mean 20mg right?

Drinking Sang Thip no wonder you were 'sick and tired'.

I reckon an alcoholic is someone who has vodka for breakfast, instead of a nice big fried breakfast.

Also, I reckon if you don't drink wine or spirits, and just stick to beer you can't go far wrong.

[Sheryl]

Plenty of beer-only alcoholics.....