SouthernMan3 Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 a note- don't forget if your not married to her you are SOL on any thing bought before you are married to her, after married 50/50 very true happynthailand. One other thing. I don't know about the OP but I trust my wife 100% and we have been together for over 10 years. And through hellfire and brimstone and survived I might add. If someone came to me and asked for a usufruct or a rental/lease agreement that would be a sign to me that they do not trust me. This SHOULD have been talked about BEFORE you bought the land. Oh when will they ever learn ? i do trust my wife Southernman3, but we all f*** up sometimes, especially me...... just need a bit of insurance sometimes i mean i am sure you trust your own driving skills 100%, but you would never consider driving around without insurance would you nobody knows what the future (esp. here in thailand) will bring All very true. The last thing you want to do is make her think that you don't trust her. It all of course is ultimately your call. You know her. I don't. I wish you the best of luck my friend. P.S. Did you buy a farm ? If so and you'd like ideas of how to have it generate money, don't hesitate to ask. I've been in the farming biz. here for a long time and am more than happy to help out a brother. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleday Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 one way is to take out a mortgage for the value of the land, repayable on demand in your name to be attached to the chanote- lend the money physically and take it back. Lawyer can arrange. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam sen Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Get your girlfriend to make you a 30 year lease on the land and also make sure that you can prove that you paid for the house that will be built on it. You will legally own the house, so if there was ever a problem then she would have to buy the house from you or you could remove it. Therefore, you have double insurance, 30 year lease and house ownership. BTW where is the land?... is it in her home town? or, get yourself a lawyer to Get your girlfriend to make you a 30 year lease on the land... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDNinKS Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Even if you trust her, if she dies say in a motorcycle accident, then you are SOL. Even though the laws say you can get a 30 year lease or usurfrut, does not mean you can get one. Last year the land office refused both of these to me, as they did not like them. Nothing I could do or say would change their minds. Amazing Thailand. That is why you need a will as well. That is the one time it is legal for a farang to own land in Thailand, if it is willed to you. However, you can own it for only a minimum of 180 days and a maximum of 365. You need to dispose of it in that time frame. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDNinKS Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Get your girlfriend to make you a 30 year lease on the land and also make sure that you can prove that you paid for the house that will be built on it. You will legally own the house, so if there was ever a problem then she would have to buy the house from you or you could remove it. Therefore, you have double insurance, 30 year lease and house ownership. BTW where is the land?... is it in her home town? or, get yourself a lawyer to Get your girlfriend to make you a 30 year lease on the land... yes, if you go the lease route get a lawyer involved. If you go with usufruct you can do that yourself at the land office. It is simply noted on the back of the Chanote. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slipperylobster Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 a note- don't forget if your not married to her you are SOL on any thing bought before you are married to her, after married 50/50 What's SOL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDNinKS Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 one way is to take out a mortgage for the value of the land, repayable on demand in your name to be attached to the chanote- lend the money physically and take it back. Lawyer can arrange. I don't know of any bank that will give you a loan on the full value, usually 50%, especially where a farang is involved. If you borrow money against the Chanote the bank will take the actual Chanote document and hold that. Just the same as if you finance a car in Thailand, the bank holds the blue book until you pay off the loan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDNinKS Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 a note- don't forget if your not married to her you are SOL on any thing bought before you are married to her, after married 50/50 What's SOL? No, that would be SHTF LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post stgrhe Posted January 25, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted January 25, 2014 Get your girlfriend to make you a 30 year lease on the land and also make sure that you can prove that you paid for the house that will be built on it. You will legally own the house, so if there was ever a problem then she would have to buy the house from you or you could remove it. Therefore, you have double insurance, 30 year lease and house ownership. BTW where is the land?... is it in her home town? thanks darren mate - good advice. no land is in hua hin. she is from kalasin, issan. As someone previously wrote normally the usufruct or the land-lease is registered at the same time as the transfer of the deed. There are a few things you need to consider. The first one is that since you two are not legally married the owneship of the land is by default your girlfriends and her alone. It you had been married she would still be owning the land but you would own half of its value. Apart from a land-lease or a usufruct there are also other less common options such as superficies, right of habitation and one could also register a morgage. Which ever is the best alternative for you is had to tell. Seek advice from lawyer e.g. Khun Kreejak in Hua Hin. Unless you take pre-actions the ownership of the dewllings will be your girlfriends and her alone. There is a certain procedure to follow to separate the ownership of the house from the land and because you havn't built the house yet it is less complicated than if the house had been built. The advantage is, however, very limited unless it is a mobile home, and it is also going to cost you 5.8% on top of the land transfer cost. The first thing you need to do is to ensure that the building permit is in your name and before you can do that you need to hav registered the land-lease or whatever method you choose to opt for. Additionall, if Hua Hin Land Office permits, register a Superficies. Your lawyer will tell you more. The house construction contract should be in your name only and it should be a "Construction & Purchase" contract if you are buying trough a developer. In that case it is imperative that you have a clause that states at which time you become the legal owner of the dwelling (Transfer of Titel). All payments for the construction should be made from your own account and in your name and then you need to transfer the house to you at the land office and pay the fee. You will not be given any title document for the house but owneship will be registered on the chanote. Good luck! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwikeith Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Get your girlfriend to make you a 30 year lease on the land and also make sure that you can prove that you paid for the house that will be built on it. You will legally own the house, so if there was ever a problem then she would have to buy the house from you or you could remove it. Therefore, you have double insurance, 30 year lease and house ownership. BTW where is the land?... is it in her home town? My friend bought a house in his GF's name then leased it on a thirty yrear lease, after 2 yrs the crap hit the fan and she took off. Only to return and wreck the house when he was out. She ended up arrested and told she did not have the right to live in the house until lease expires. She has been offered money to get out but wont. My frind took off to another province as hes scared she will have him killed. The house remains leasehold to him and he seldom goes back there only to visit friends and is to scared to stay in the house so when he returns to the area his house is he stays in a guest house. In hind sight he could have leased it off the person who built it as he will be 105 when the lease runs out. Good Luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braddockrd Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Sorry if I am missing something guys but the usufruct does not entitle you to the original value if the property, right? So what if you want to get the proceeds from sale? Wouldn't it be better to enter into a loan with her, use the loan as a lien, and then enter into renewable lease with lease payments waived in exchange for interest foregone on the loan? You could also modify the interest component to make it cumulative and payable upon repayment of the loan, to somehow protect your rights to capital appreciation, and make the loan call-able at your discretion.... How does this sound? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braddockrd Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Sorry if I am missing something guys but the usufruct does not entitle you to the original value if the property, right? So what if you want to get the proceeds from sale? Wouldn't it be better to enter into a loan with her, use the loan as a lien, and then enter into renewable lease with lease payments waived in exchange for interest foregone on the loan? You could also modify the interest component to make it cumulative and payable upon repayment of the loan, to somehow protect your rights to capital appreciation, and make the loan call-able at your discretion.... How does this sound? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOOD Robin Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 a note- don't forget if your not married to her you are SOL on any thing bought before you are married to her, after married 50/50 very true happynthailand. One other thing. I don't know about the OP but I trust my wife 100% and we have been together for over 10 years. where did i hear this before.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falangadang Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Thanks Briggsy.... is that the usufruct option? can one of these be sorted out before the house is built? i read that the cost is only 100B when we are married, so this sounds like a good option A Userfruct (UF) is an instrument/document that gives you lifetime use of the property. That said,...IMHO not worth the paper they're written on because lets say you built a house on it and that the UF gives you a technical right to occupy (for the term of your lifetime), If you had a split from your GF/Mrs then she could claim that the UF to you would force her onto the street and cause hardship. This scenario is amplified when kids are involved. A Thai court is HIGHLY unlikely to kick her out and you can forget calling the police to get her out. If she was to sell to someone else (without your consent) then you may have some leverage by way of a UF or a 30yr lease being registered on the back of the Channot at the Lands Office. However, such things can be overcome with the aid of the "right" people in the transfers dept or via a cunning lawyer. It's not like the west where you can register an "absolute caveat" which can only be extinguished by a court. Up until recently I was not confident that westerners had much chance of recovering any equity in Thai land when marriages or relationships end, but I have read many reports here on TVF where the courts awarded 50% of sale proceeds to the western husband. If you're not married and not intending to (legally) then I'm not sure how the courts look at defacto relationships and you ought to seek advice on that one. Disclaimer... I am not a lawyer and this is not advice; just my opinion based on many years of experience here and many conversations with Thai lawyers on the topic when I was first getting married and investing here 10 years ago. Cheers and best wishes with it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iancnx Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Please clarify as advice above is confusing. A girlfriend can subsequently cancel a usefruct once you marry her? Your wife cannot cancel a usefruct granted by her whilst you are married and remain married. Your ex-wife cannot cancel a usefruct after you have divorced. The given is: the usefruct is an official entry on the chanote registered by the land office giving you lifetime rights to the property. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leosuntime Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 u r married?? what is ur visa I thought farang can't buy land in this police state Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keeniau96 Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 A very detailed usufruct contract is available at: http://www.thailandlawonline.com/paid-downloads/usufruct-contract-th-en . This claims to be accepted at the land office and is English-Thai line for line. I intend to get one and use it. Cost is about US$50, supposedly only need to pay 100 baht at land office to register (supposedly, fer sure). I totally trust my wife but not her relatives at all. So what happens (god forbid) if a nasty traffic accident, cobra in our back yard, whatever. Yes, we both have a will but where do I live one year later? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anon999 Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 (edited) a note- don't forget if your not married to her you are SOL on any thing bought before you are married to her, after married 50/50 very true happynthailand. One other thing. I don't know about the OP but I trust my wife 100% and we have been together for over 10 years. And through hellfire and brimstone and survived I might add. If someone came to me and asked for a usufruct or a rental/lease agreement that would be a sign to me that they do not trust me. This SHOULD have been talked about BEFORE you bought the land. Oh when will they ever learn ? Not true! Get your facts right before you post. Whether you trust your wife or not is irrelevant. If you wife is killed in a motorcycle accident or falling down some stairs etc., etc., then the person who inherits the land has every right to turn up and throw you off the land immediately. The usufruct gives you the right to live on the land for 30 years, come what may, it is a better solution than a lease. A lease requires that you have to make payments to the landowner, as in the West. Get your lawyer to draw it up in English and Thai, item by item. Make sure he retains a copy for security then at least one will be available in the event of a disaster. Make sure your name is entered on the back of the Chanote. As you are not permitted to own land or pay for it, with exceptions, then presumably you made a 'loan' for the purchase? Edited January 25, 2014 by Anon999 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeVee1st Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 I was in the same situation as U for 4 years, bought land & built a house, then the thai bf appeared along with drugs, alcohol & gambling. When I refused to give my wife more money she divorced me to get 50% & alimony. The Judge laughed her out of court & gave me everything, inc.the land. I paid a small settlement to keep face & the land id under my control. My advice is that if U are thinking it may happen, then do not proceed without a good lawyer. Sent from my GT-I8160 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiouma Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Habitation for life. Your name will be on the chanode together with hers. In order to sell, you both need to sign. Good luck ....................... and may I add good decision. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaidDown Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 (edited) Please clarify as advice above is confusing. A girlfriend can subsequently cancel a usefruct once you marry her? Your wife cannot cancel a usefruct granted by her whilst you are married and remain married. Your ex-wife cannot cancel a usefruct after you have divorced. The given is: the usefruct is an official entry on the chanote registered by the land office giving you lifetime rights to the property. 1) Wrong, a girlfriend cannot cancel the usufruct after marrying. 2) Wrong, wife can cancel at any time during marriage, 3) Wrong, wife can cancel up to 1 year after divorce (note not 100% sure it is 1 year, may be less) 4) If the term of the usufruct is quoted on the chanote as 'life' then yes, Edit 1) as did not read quoted post correctly. Edited January 25, 2014 by ThaidDown 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitcoinbob Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 if you are american write up a simple loan contract with one year pay back with interest have your wife sign it. she is not paying you back bad loans are a tax deduction against income. becomes a tax loss. forget about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post transam Posted January 25, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted January 25, 2014 a note- don't forget if your not married to her you are SOL on any thing bought before you are married to her, after married 50/50 very true happynthailand. One other thing. I don't know about the OP but I trust my wife 100% and we have been together for over 10 years. And through hellfire and brimstone and survived I might add. If someone came to me and asked for a usufruct or a rental/lease agreement that would be a sign to me that they do not trust me. This SHOULD have been talked about BEFORE you bought the land. Oh when will they ever learn ? I think your ''trust'' thing is a big mistake. After 25 years of a happy marriage I was stuffed big time. Why did this happen, cos we ALL change as we get older in every way. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braddockrd Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 (edited) Please don't listen to bitcoinbob. He has no idea about US tax laws. There is no personal income tax itemized deduction for bad loans under any circumstances Edited January 25, 2014 by Braddockrd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braddockrd Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 if you are american write up a simple loan contract with one year pay back with interest have your wife sign it. she is not paying you back bad loans are a tax deduction against income. becomes a tax loss. forget about it. Please don't listen to bitcoinbob. He has no idea about US tax laws. There is no personal income tax itemized deduction for bad loans under any circumstances Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a99az Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 I think you should have said " my girl friend bought some land" lf you lent her the money for it then you should also have an agrement in place for repayment. If not she can walk away and you cant get a anything back. Best is dont upset her and hope she will sign something now. Good luck. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briggsy Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Thanks Briggsy.... is that the usufruct option? can one of these be sorted out before the house is built? i read that the cost is only 100B when we are married, so this sounds like a good option You can not lease from you legally wedded partner. After a legal wedding (jot tabian somrot) you are entitled to half of the mutual possessions unless you write a prenuptial, but the land can't be on your side in the prenuptial. You may be mistaken that the legal wedding will cost you a few 100 Baht in the tessbaan office. That is interesting because I have friends who have leased land from the legally wedded wives. They made the lease prior to getting married. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a99az Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 I think you should have said " my girl friend bought some land" lf you lent her the money for it then you should also have an agrement in place for repayment. If not she can walk away and you cant get a anything back. Best is dont upset her and hope she will sign something now. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cricketnut Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Per say if things did go south, one doesn't want to pay the wife either. See a good lawyer in Thanon Petchburi. They are not that expensive and you get all your options laid out for you. Take the emotion or feeling's out of the equation and get the facts and put them into play. This will also sort the fiancé right out if u do feel the need for more security. its to late mate...if the chanotes in her name no way are u go to get that changed or otherwise .. she will agree to anything i want i think mate - i already mentioned usufruct, and she said "ok if it makes you happy, i just dont want to be giving the lawyer any money" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernMan3 Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 a note- don't forget if your not married to her you are SOL on any thing bought before you are married to her, after married 50/50 very true happynthailand. One other thing. I don't know about the OP but I trust my wife 100% and we have been together for over 10 years. And through hellfire and brimstone and survived I might add. If someone came to me and asked for a usufruct or a rental/lease agreement that would be a sign to me that they do not trust me. This SHOULD have been talked about BEFORE you bought the land. Oh when will they ever learn ? I think your ''trust'' thing is a big mistake. After 25 years of a happy marriage I was stuffed big time. Why did this happen, cos we ALL change as we get older in every way. Well, I'll just make my mistakes on my own. But thank you I am truly sorry for you. And yes, we do all change. Wouldn't life be boring if we didn't........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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