englishoak Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 umm but you cant see either of these men shooting anything at all not even a gun, you can see a flash from the truck though suggesting there was at least returning fire. Saying that places where there are crowds or gatherings can be explosive, i have on more than one occasion seen people whip out guns and crack off a few shots as well once things kick off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emptyset Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 umm but you cant see either of these men shooting anything at all not even a gun, you can see a flash from the truck though suggesting there was at least returning fire. Saying that places where there are crowds or gatherings can be explosive, i have on more than one occasion seen people whip out guns and crack off a few shots as well once things kick off. Don't know if the people in the truck fired back - looks as though they might've done from the close-up video. Pretty sure the videos above show the gunmen though, found a screenshot from the second video: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Haggis Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 If that is indeed a handgun in the hands of the guy in the white, he knows how to shoot, his stance is a giveaway, it's called isosceles, and even the blurry image of the dark "shooter" looks like he's using the same stance.. not the work of rank amateurs or drive by gang bangers There's also unconfirmed reports that Thai Navy (SEAL's) went to rescue some of the crowd in the temple area, after they were "besieged" by red shirts has anyone else heard anything to verify this in any shape or form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
englishoak Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Given that we have national service here and a very high % of the male population have military training they would know how to stand when firing a gun. It still dosn't make anything conclusive these guys could be anyone and returning fire from the vehicle. We simply do not know who fired first or if these people which i admit from the stills could well be holding guns are the shooters or if there were others behind the grassy knoll. Rumours are rife one guy is dead and there was a lot of shooting was the guy shot at the beginning the middle or the end of an exchange in fire ? at what point he was hit we simply do not know. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prbkk Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 (edited) Self delete slightly mean late night post Edited January 27, 2014 by Prbkk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxclever Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 englishoak, on 27 Jan 2014 - 21:03, said: aguy30, on 27 Jan 2014 - 20:49, said: trainman34014, on 27 Jan 2014 - 19:36, said:trainman34014, on 27 Jan 2014 - 19:36, said:I wouldn't trust any so called Thai 'Doctor' with the autopsy of a Mouse let alone a Human Being. I would bet my last buck that a Western pathologist would come up with very different findings. The Female concerned is just another clown in the Thai circus. Now that you mentioned clowns, you should fell right at home. Dr. Pornthip has far more credibility than you will ever have. A very prominent defender of the GT200 is scientist Dr. Pornthip, a forensic scientist who is well known for her flashy hair styles. She had already fallen from grace when she defended the bogus bomb-sniffer right after it failed government tests (out of 20 tests, it only worked 4 times!) in early 2010. Ahe came out again with these stunning statements defending the device: The head of the the Justice Ministry’s Central Institute of Forensic Science believes bomb attacks in the deep South have increased as a result of the CIFS’s decision to stop using the GT200 bomb detector. (…) She also said there were too many variables involved when using the GT200 for it to be infallible. Khunying Pornthip said there have been more frequent bomb attacks in the South since then. “‘More attacks’ since GT200 phased out“, Bangkok Post, July 24, 2012 It in fact dosnt work at all and never did.... yes shes very credible these days Many people were fooled by that scam. A number of countries spent large amounts of money to purchase many of them. Dr. Porthip has performed over 10,000 autopsies and is considered an expert in the specialty of forensics, not bomb detectors. Anyone can make a mistake based on misinformation given to them about something that they would have little knowledge of. I wonder how much money she made from that scam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stu2001 Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 No Sent from my R821 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stu2001 Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 The shots were close range. I was there. Sent from my R821 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMarlow Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Just seen enhance footage which show 2, maybe 3 guys with shorts firing from the intersection up into the back of the truck. Haven't seen that, but of the two videos I have seen: Shooter seems to be in white at 0:35 seconds on this. The anti-govt truck is seen on the top right. Put it together with this: Looks like he could've been shot from two directions. One gunman from the right and least one other approaching from behind. Those two videos show absolutely nothing clearly enough to make any kind of conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AleG Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Given that we have national service here and a very high % of the male population have military training they would know how to stand when firing a gun. It still dosn't make anything conclusive these guys could be anyone and returning fire from the vehicle. We simply do not know who fired first or if these people which i admit from the stills could well be holding guns are the shooters or if there were others behind the grassy knoll. Rumours are rife one guy is dead and there was a lot of shooting was the guy shot at the beginning the middle or the end of an exchange in fire ? at what point he was hit we simply do not know. Returning fire after being shot from the truck, right... Why if the occupants of the truck are firing at the Red Shirts behind them aren´t the Red Shirts seeking cover? They are wallking around like they are out for a stroll. Stop clutching at straws and trying to muddle the facts with biased, unsubstantiated BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Haggis Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 The shots were close range. I was there. Sent from my R821 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Not from Sutheps 80 Cambodian Special Forces rooftop snipers then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
englishoak Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Given that we have national service here and a very high % of the male population have military training they would know how to stand when firing a gun. It still dosn't make anything conclusive these guys could be anyone and returning fire from the vehicle. We simply do not know who fired first or if these people which i admit from the stills could well be holding guns are the shooters or if there were others behind the grassy knoll. Rumours are rife one guy is dead and there was a lot of shooting was the guy shot at the beginning the middle or the end of an exchange in fire ? at what point he was hit we simply do not know. Returning fire after being shot from the truck, right... Why if the occupants of the truck are firing at the Red Shirts behind them aren´t the Red Shirts seeking cover? They are wallking around like they are out for a stroll. Stop clutching at straws and trying to muddle the facts with biased, unsubstantiated BS. who said anything about red shirts ? im simply saying when things kick off it gets messy, you dont know a thing I havnt said whos firing at what first so kindly read properly. It is pretty clear someone in the truck was opening fire and to anyone in the vicinity it would be clear also. No one i see is just strolling around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AleG Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Given that we have national service here and a very high % of the male population have military training they would know how to stand when firing a gun. It still dosn't make anything conclusive these guys could be anyone and returning fire from the vehicle. We simply do not know who fired first or if these people which i admit from the stills could well be holding guns are the shooters or if there were others behind the grassy knoll. Rumours are rife one guy is dead and there was a lot of shooting was the guy shot at the beginning the middle or the end of an exchange in fire ? at what point he was hit we simply do not know. Returning fire after being shot from the truck, right... Why if the occupants of the truck are firing at the Red Shirts behind them aren´t the Red Shirts seeking cover? They are wallking around like they are out for a stroll. Stop clutching at straws and trying to muddle the facts with biased, unsubstantiated BS. who said anything about red shirts ? im simply saying when things kick off it gets messy, you dont know a thing I havnt said whos firing at what first so kindly read properly. It is pretty clear someone in the truck was opening fire and to anyone in the vicinity it would be clear also. No one i see is just strolling around. This "It is pretty clear someone in the truck was opening fire" is quite simply a lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Haggis Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 So was the party line last week when they said the grenade was dropped from a building So was the party line that there was 80 rooftop Cambodian Special Forces snipers. your point being?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emptyset Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 If that is indeed a handgun in the hands of the guy in the white, he knows how to shoot, his stance is a giveaway, it's called isosceles, and even the blurry image of the dark "shooter" looks like he's using the same stance.. not the work of rank amateurs or drive by gang bangers There's also unconfirmed reports that Thai Navy (SEAL's) went to rescue some of the crowd in the temple area, after they were "besieged" by red shirts has anyone else heard anything to verify this in any shape or form. Doesn't seem likely. Police were at the scene 10 minutes later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emptyset Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Given that we have national service here and a very high % of the male population have military training they would know how to stand when firing a gun. It still dosn't make anything conclusive these guys could be anyone and returning fire from the vehicle. We simply do not know who fired first or if these people which i admit from the stills could well be holding guns are the shooters or if there were others behind the grassy knoll. Rumours are rife one guy is dead and there was a lot of shooting was the guy shot at the beginning the middle or the end of an exchange in fire ? at what point he was hit we simply do not know. Returning fire after being shot from the truck, right... Why if the occupants of the truck are firing at the Red Shirts behind them aren´t the Red Shirts seeking cover? They are wallking around like they are out for a stroll. Stop clutching at straws and trying to muddle the facts with biased, unsubstantiated BS. Looks to me like the red shirts do run for cover when the initially hear the shots (start of the second video I posted) - that doesn't mean there was shooting from the truck though, they may have ran for cover instinctively upon hearing shots, not realizing where it was coming from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AleG Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Given that we have national service here and a very high % of the male population have military training they would know how to stand when firing a gun. It still dosn't make anything conclusive these guys could be anyone and returning fire from the vehicle. We simply do not know who fired first or if these people which i admit from the stills could well be holding guns are the shooters or if there were others behind the grassy knoll. Rumours are rife one guy is dead and there was a lot of shooting was the guy shot at the beginning the middle or the end of an exchange in fire ? at what point he was hit we simply do not know. Returning fire after being shot from the truck, right... Why if the occupants of the truck are firing at the Red Shirts behind them aren´t the Red Shirts seeking cover? They are wallking around like they are out for a stroll. Stop clutching at straws and trying to muddle the facts with biased, unsubstantiated BS. Looks to me like the red shirts do run for cover when the initially hear the shots (start of the second video I posted) - that doesn't mean there was shooting from the truck though, they may have ran for cover instinctively upon hearing shots, not realizing where it was coming from. In the first you can clearly see and hear that the two armed men are already in a firing position when the shooting starts, that is not indicative of them returning fire, quite the contrary. Besides, there is not any evidence of shots being fired from the truck, none at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longway Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Stills of the shooters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AleG Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 1620804_633566893355655_120171761_n.jpg1601225_633566830022328_1415693150_n.jpg Stills of the shooters That is not how someone who had susposedly been shot at would act, if he'd fear of being shot he wouldn't walk up to the truck like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezzra Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Could it be that the fatal shot came behind the " grassy knoll " ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emptyset Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) Given that we have national service here and a very high % of the male population have military training they would know how to stand when firing a gun. It still dosn't make anything conclusive these guys could be anyone and returning fire from the vehicle. We simply do not know who fired first or if these people which i admit from the stills could well be holding guns are the shooters or if there were others behind the grassy knoll. Rumours are rife one guy is dead and there was a lot of shooting was the guy shot at the beginning the middle or the end of an exchange in fire ? at what point he was hit we simply do not know. Returning fire after being shot from the truck, right... Why if the occupants of the truck are firing at the Red Shirts behind them aren´t the Red Shirts seeking cover? They are wallking around like they are out for a stroll. Stop clutching at straws and trying to muddle the facts with biased, unsubstantiated BS. Looks to me like the red shirts do run for cover when the initially hear the shots (start of the second video I posted) - that doesn't mean there was shooting from the truck though, they may have ran for cover instinctively upon hearing shots, not realizing where it was coming from. In the first you can clearly see and hear that the two armed men are already in a firing position when the shooting starts, that is not indicative of them returning fire, quite the contrary. Besides, there is not any evidence of shots being fired from the truck, none at all. There's this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcymHt0s-_A Hard to tell for sure but looks like he might be returning fire (wisp of smoke and an object that looks like a gun being pointed). I don't really know either way and I don't care that much either. I'd expect them to be armed and to respond to being attacked. It doesn't justify the killing. If moderates on both sides were willing to condemn the violent actions of their own side and not dismiss any evidence that shows their people in a bad light 'fake' and a 'set up' etc, then it'd be a major step forward. It's hard to put truth before ideology when things are so polarized. Hard to condemn those on the same team - the people you think are the good guys. It'd be easier to ignore it. To pretend it didn't happen. Like Nietszche said, there's no greater enemy of truth than conviction. But for society to move forward, the elements of justice - and injustice - on both sides, needs to be recognized. Edited January 28, 2014 by Emptyset Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siripon Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Given that we have national service here and a very high % of the male population have military training they would know how to stand when firing a gun. It still dosn't make anything conclusive these guys could be anyone and returning fire from the vehicle. We simply do not know who fired first or if these people which i admit from the stills could well be holding guns are the shooters or if there were others behind the grassy knoll. Rumours are rife one guy is dead and there was a lot of shooting was the guy shot at the beginning the middle or the end of an exchange in fire ? at what point he was hit we simply do not know. Sorry Oak, I have to disagree here- many young Thai men opt for what is called ror dor in Thai, from M4- M6 high school, rather than run the risk of drawing lots for conscription later. These boys spend one morning or afternoon a week from early June to December doing so called military training. In fact they learn almost nothing and in 3 years may fire a gun perhaps once or twice, they even have to pay for the bullets themselves! I don't think we can say they know how to fire a gun- now if you're talking about water guns and Songkran, well that's another matter altogether! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdinasia Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 I thought pathologists could at least form a view of what kind of gun and ammunition was used from the type of wounds inflicted. A high velocity rifle bullet has a very different trajectory from a pistol round and is more likely to exit at sufficient velocity to be hard to find. An AK-47 bullet trajectory is also different from an M16's but less so at very close range when the difference in tumbling is not so distinct. I remember a lot of nonsense about this though in the to-ing nad fro-ing of pathologists with different agendas regarding the red shirt deaths in 2010 when a lot of effort went into trying to prove they were killed by M16s, as carried by the army, after the change of government, even though there were YouTube clips of MIB also firing M16s. Pornthip doesn't have quite the credibility she once had, since she endorsed the use of plastic dousing rods with nothing inside them for detecting explosives. Two entry and two exit wounds. Nobody has seen any gunman. It is safe to say he was killed from a high powered rifle/s from distance. Watching the footage with sound, there is a good delay between report and stike which adds weight to a sniper style attack. Perhaps you should re-read your post and amend it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coma Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Just seen enhance footage which show 2, maybe 3 guys with shorts firing from the intersection up into the back of the truck. so post it, like to see professional snipers dressed in shorts Unfortunately it is from a Thai language website so against forum rules. If I find it on an English source I will post it. Or you can PM me and I will send you the link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsnyder Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Given that we have national service here and a very high % of the male population have military training they would know how to stand when firing a gun. It still dosn't make anything conclusive these guys could be anyone and returning fire from the vehicle. We simply do not know who fired first or if these people which i admit from the stills could well be holding guns are the shooters or if there were others behind the grassy knoll. Rumours are rife one guy is dead and there was a lot of shooting was the guy shot at the beginning the middle or the end of an exchange in fire ? at what point he was hit we simply do not know. Sorry Oak, I have to disagree here- many young Thai men opt for what is called ror dor in Thai, from M4- M6 high school, rather than run the risk of drawing lots for conscription later. These boys spend one morning or afternoon a week from early June to December doing so called military training. In fact they learn almost nothing and in 3 years may fire a gun perhaps once or twice, they even have to pay for the bullets themselves! I don't think we can say they know how to fire a gun- now if you're talking about water guns and Songkran, well that's another matter altogether! Exactly. The missus brother did ror dor for three years and never fired so much as even a cap gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coma Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) Just seen enhance footage which show 2, maybe 3 guys with shorts firing from the intersection up into the back of the truck. Haven't seen that, but of the two videos I have seen: Shooter seems to be in white at 0:35 seconds on this. The anti-govt truck is seen on the top right. Put it together with this: Looks like he could've been shot from two directions. One gunman from the right and least one other approaching from behind. The second one i very similar to the footage I have seen. Just out of sequence a little. I still believe long rifles were used. Shorts getting head / neck shots at the range seen here on a moving target is preposterous.Some guys are guards reacting to the sound of gunfire coming from away. One can even be seen pulling his weapon after the initial firing starts. Edited January 28, 2014 by coma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AleG Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 In the first you can clearly see and hear that the two armed men are already in a firing position when the shooting starts, that is not indicative of them returning fire, quite the contrary. Besides, there is not any evidence of shots being fired from the truck, none at all. There's this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcymHt0s-_A Hard to tell for sure but looks like he might be returning fire (wisp of smoke and an object that looks like a gun being pointed). I don't really know either way and I don't care that much either. I'd expect them to be armed and to respond to being attacked. It doesn't justify the killing. If moderates on both sides were willing to condemn the violent actions of their own side and not dismiss any evidence that shows their people in a bad light 'fake' and a 'set up' etc, then it'd be a major step forward. It's hard to put truth before ideology when things are so polarized. Hard to condemn those on the same team - the people you think are the good guys. It'd be easier to ignore it. To pretend it didn't happen. Like Nietszche said, there's no greater enemy of truth than conviction. But for society to move forward, the elements of justice - and injustice - on both sides, needs to be recognized. I see nothing looking like a gun being pointed anywhere, the whisp of smoke may just as well be from a bullet hit. The fact still stands that the shooters caught on video were already in a firing position when the gunshots started and that doesn´t mesh with the theory that they were returning fire after being shot at. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coma Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Here is a pic of the vehicle that was carrying the deceased. Two round strikes seen clearly on the windscreen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coma Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Cyber chatter this morning over the shooting has this guy as a suspect shooter. https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100007519892148&fref=ts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowdog Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) when is thaksin going to extradited on murder charges now that his murder for hire just happened and when is yingluck going to be brought up on charges for being part of it Edited January 28, 2014 by Snowdog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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