The momentum is swinging toward reform: Thai editorial

[Thai at Heart]

So there we have it: The Nation has its finger on the pulse of the nation. The paper can now say, without fear of equivocation that ALL the wine bar goers on Sukhumvit and Silom roads now support the reform of the 'Thaksin Regime' and the restoration of power to the 'widely respected members of (cafe) society. I wonder if the editor got out of his leather backed armchair and sought the views of the industrial workers in Samut Prakhan or Samut Sakhorn or the tour guides in Chiang Mai or the farmers in the Isaan. The editor must think we're all stupid. These 'widely respected members of society' we take it as read, want rid of 'Thaksinism'

This new group have, allegedly for the first time, reluctantly come forward to propose reform. If they didn't do so before they are merely bowing to the aggressive actions of Mr. Suthep's mob. If they have said this before (and given the admitted history of many members of teh group), then this is merely The Nations propaganda masquerading as news.

There will be an election on Sunday and the majority of Thais will vote -unless they are violently prevented from doing so. Then teh by elections will take place then parliament will convene and then and only then and in parliament will reform debates take place.

Reform cannot be left to the politicians, it need input from all sectors.

Only when the proposals are finalised should it go to Parliament.

Agree, and one more point; did this group say that the 'membership' of their reform group is now fixed? No!

Different point, when it comes to a actual list of reforms I hope the RTP is way up the list for a total overhaul including the dismissal of quite some number of the force, at many levels.

And is the army to be exempted from reform too - the massive corruption, the business and media interests, the interference in politics, the lack of accountability for military crimes, the ludicrous number of general level officers etc etc?Somehow don't think that will be on the agenda.

And here is the nub of the problem. Reform will only be in place for those parts of society they have the right to touch.

Just wait for some nut job to prattle on about the problem of too many farangs in thailand and how that should be ripe for reform.

[Fryslan boppe]

The "widely respected 185 public figures" is a euphemism for "the establishment elite." It's analogous to putting the fox in the chicken coup.

And that brings us back to this notion of Education vs. politicization.....For example, does a doctor's medical education translate into greater political insight?...I would argue otherwise..

Whatever you may think about the UDD, it cannot be denied they have done an excellent job of politicizing their and the PTP base, since the 2006 coup caper. Voters ultimately vote for who best advances their personal interests...It is why Election-process- experts spend millions identifying electoral segments and voting patterns, so that a politician can tailor his/her message to specific segments.

It can be argued that it is this politicization process undertaken by the UDD after the 2006 coup, which prevented a repeat in 2014.

The Elitists don't seem to fathom this....I have seen little evidence that they try to appeal beyond their minority base....This reduces them to street stuff and coup-intentions as their only path to political power.

Not smart.

[Thai at Heart]

The "widely respected 185 public figures" is a euphemism for "the establishment elite." It's analogous to putting the fox in the chicken coup.

And that brings us back to this notion of Education vs. politicization.....For example, does a doctor's medical education translate into greater political insight?...I would argue otherwise..

Whatever you may think about the UDD, it cannot be denied they have done an excellent job of politicizing their and the PTP base, since the 2006 coup caper. Voters ultimately vote for who best advances their personal interests...It is why Election-process- experts spend millions identifying electoral segments and voting patterns, so that a politician can tailor his/her message to specific segments.

It can be argued that it is this politicization process undertaken by the UDD after the 2006 coup, which prevented a repeat in 2014.

The Elitists don't seem to fathom this....I have seen little evidence that they try to appeal beyond their minority base....This reduces them to street stuff and coup-intentions as their only path to political power.

Not smart.

But undoubtedly amart.

You are right, it's as though politics or leadership is something that can only be learnt.

Edited January 30, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[BlueNoseCodger]

Network of Servants for Thailand's Peaceful Reform (NSTPR).

Terrific! Now we have 185 names of the 400!

I love this, the more he fails, the more they come out of the woodwork and declare themselves as Suthep cronies. So now we know the names of 185 of cronies he wanted to put into power.

Edited January 30, 2014 by BlueNoseCodger

[theslime]

The "widely respected 185 public figures" is a euphemism for "the establishment elite." It's analogous to putting the fox in the chicken coup.

Excellent analysis!!!

Simpletons have a fascination in this land with the labels "academic", "professor" among others.

Their finite rationale never goes beyond the phonetics of the word: what of their political leaning, their provenance, past or present family ties to the current or past administrations, etc.? They assume that because of those labels, THEY know better than the rest of the population. Ergo, they should be able to tell us what we ought to do.

Oftentimes Professors and academics are ideologues who can only operate in the realm of an idea. Any connection with the practice of real life is left out as it would upset the balance of their abstract concoctions. That is the chief failure of Utopia (disguised as Socialism and Communism) that cannot exist in reality. Humans have diverse opinions, upbringing, goal and aspirations nearly impossible to catalog or foresee.

To leave reform to the academics and professors will lead to the transfer of power to a false prophet, a charlatan, an opportunist or yet another Elmer Gantry.

Is this your idea? seems like your saying you are more Knowledgeble than the Professors and they have no concept of what it is, you know.Leave Reform to Thaksin and see how things turn out, no thank you.

Sophistry. Look it up

Yes, I have looked it up. What I don,t know is,what parts of your Blurb, are you trying to highlight.

[lostinsurin]

As the election draws nearer the editorials from The Nation become more frequent and frenzied. The best point made in the article was that the press in Thailand is neither free nor fair. The Nation could start the reform process by taking a good long look in the mirror.

And TV seems to be going the same way as The Nation. Or maybe it allways has been?

[Nickymaster]

"They are calling for reforms to prevent cronyism and corruption, overhaul politics and governance, improve the police and justice system, prevent business monopolies, and strengthen civil society"

No-one will argue with that...A little like "Motherhood and apple pie".

So take it to Parliament

" a large group of publicly respected figures..."

As long as it is not a group of elites publically respected by the "Pad-Dem's"...They are not the "public", but just an electoral minority segment. It is a common trait of the PAD-Dem's to create all these seemingly independent groups they like to call 'networks', but which in essence are just "different groups, same PAD-Dem faces"

So take it to Parliament This statement shows that you don't really want reform.

The reason we are in this mes today is because the parliamentary system isn't really working. The house speaker only supports PT. The Dems have asked Yingluck 120 questions since she became PM but for some reason she could only answer 2. Maybe because she never shows up?

Yeeah, let's take it to parliament because that was working very well the last 2.5 years.

[Spalpeen]

In my 23 years here I have seen nothing to match the current levels of corruption and the abuse of power and the self serving actions of one family and their clique.

.

It was all going so well up until the point where this line appeared. I presume this is another coded anti Shinawatra whine. What you fail to realise is that the Shins are relative newcomers and relatively small fry. Forbes magazine ranked them as the tenth wealthiest family in Thailand. What you need to ask yourself is.....what are the other nine families up to. Anyone who thinks that the Shins invented corruption, or made it worse than it was, needs their head examined.

[kikoman]

If they are not carful... They could have a reform in this country that will take them all out.

People only put up with oppression for so long and one more coup will be one too many. I cannot see a way back from it and these academics are crying in the wilderness. If the Red side have to come out, they will not be listening to self serving elitise garbage from these people.

Dude the reds listen to Taksin and Tida all the time - and their words are the most self serving elitist garbage of all.

We all favor reform but a lot more comprehensive reform that these (so call) reformist want, who are only calling for political reform, as has been clearly documented by the actions of The military, EC , Constitutional Court, the NACC, and the Thai entrenched bureaucrats who have only responded to the wishes of the rich elite and have not only allowed, but aided and abetted the nutcase Suthep to terrorize Bangkok for 3 months. The action of those agencies did not address what was best for Thailand, but what their masters ordered them to do. (That is corruption).

All young men at a certain age must take part in the draft lottery, the rich are able to buy their sons way out of fulfilling their military obligations,( that is corruption). The ability of the more affluent to buy great jobs and or government position for the families, also buying their placement in the best schools and Universities (that is corruption).

This group of so-called good citizens are not the persons for the job, as all groups must participate in the reform process, as the educated, professionals etc. are responsible for the, more affluent ability to buy their way into any thing they choose in the country.

Reform is drastically needed in Thailand, but the rich elite, the educated, the professional are all part of the problem as it currently exist in the country! The reformers must be open minded,willing to listen to others opinions, to do what is best for Thailand, some is this article have acknowledged they do not have the necessary credentials for doing the job, as they state publicly are pro or con verses the options that need to be considered!

Cheers

[rreddin]

So there we have it: The Nation has its finger on the pulse of the nation. The paper can now say, without fear of equivocation that ALL the wine bar goers on Sukhumvit and Silom roads now support the reform of the 'Thaksin Regime' and the restoration of power to the 'widely respected members of (cafe) society. I wonder if the editor got out of his leather backed armchair and sought the views of the industrial workers in Samut Prakhan or Samut Sakhorn or the tour guides in Chiang Mai or the farmers in the Isaan. The editor must think we're all stupid. These 'widely respected members of society' we take it as read, want rid of 'Thaksinism'

This new group have, allegedly for the first time, reluctantly come forward to propose reform. If they didn't do so before they are merely bowing to the aggressive actions of Mr. Suthep's mob. If they have said this before (and given the admitted history of many members of teh group), then this is merely The Nations propaganda masquerading as news.

There will be an election on Sunday and the majority of Thais will vote -unless they are violently prevented from doing so. Then teh by elections will take place then parliament will convene and then and only then and in parliament will reform debates take place.

Reform cannot be left to the politicians, it need input from all sectors.

Only when the proposals are finalised should it go to Parliament.

Agree, and one more point; did this group say that the 'membership' of their reform group is now fixed? No!

Different point, when it comes to a actual list of reforms I hope the RTP is way up the list for a total overhaul including the dismissal of quite some number of the force, at many levels.

And is the army to be exempted from reform too - the massive corruption, the business and media interests, the interference in politics, the lack of accountability for military crimes, the ludicrous number of general level officers etc etc?Somehow don't think that will be on the agenda.

Talk of reforms is unrealistic, not because they are not needed, but because those pushing the agenda are only doing so to serve their own narrow interests.

It will take the entire career of a newly commissioned police officer or army officer before corruption in those quarters are eliminated. Reforming the tax system, the judiciary and judicial system, the civil service and public employees and health care, to name but a few, should take much less time, but will still take years and will be resisted strongly by those who are benefiting from the current arrangements.

In short, until everyone accepts the need for the wide ranging reforms needed, agrees what needs to be done and gets down to implementing them, nothing significant will change. And that suits many people.

[jayboy]

So there we have it: The Nation has its finger on the pulse of the nation. The paper can now say, without fear of equivocation that ALL the wine bar goers on Sukhumvit and Silom roads now support the reform of the 'Thaksin Regime' and the restoration of power to the 'widely respected members of (cafe) society. I wonder if the editor got out of his leather backed armchair and sought the views of the industrial workers in Samut Prakhan or Samut Sakhorn or the tour guides in Chiang Mai or the farmers in the Isaan. The editor must think we're all stupid. These 'widely respected members of society' we take it as read, want rid of 'Thaksinism'

This new group have, allegedly for the first time, reluctantly come forward to propose reform. If they didn't do so before they are merely bowing to the aggressive actions of Mr. Suthep's mob. If they have said this before (and given the admitted history of many members of teh group), then this is merely The Nations propaganda masquerading as news.

There will be an election on Sunday and the majority of Thais will vote -unless they are violently prevented from doing so. Then teh by elections will take place then parliament will convene and then and only then and in parliament will reform debates take place.

Reform cannot be left to the politicians, it need input from all sectors.

Only when the proposals are finalised should it go to Parliament.

Yes obviously reform needs genuine and wide national consultation.But so far the the discussion is vague and as Frysian boppe has pointed out the suggested ground to be covered is mostly just "motherhood and apple pie". As far as the mechanics of electoral democracy are concerned I have not seen specific proposals for reform but retain an open mind.It is hard however to avoid the conclusion that if the Democrats had proved capable of winning the last or any recent election the concerns on this front would have remained less intense.A cynical observer might even conclude that the Democrats would do anything to modify an electoral system so as to enable their access to power, rather than take the more challenging route of reforming their incompetent organisation and leadership so as to having a realistic chance of receiving a national mandate.In any event let's see how it goes and with a better spirit of cooperation all parties may be able to sign off a mutually acceptable electoral system.

In terms of popular endorsement of the reform package is there any better method than a national referendum? Alternatively if a parliament is elected on the basis of agreed reforms (though as earlier noted I'm unsure what the Democrats/PRDC specifically have in mind) then presumably the politicians can and should be trusted.But for some in Thailand elected politicians will never be accepted because they represent the nation as a whole.For these people there will always be a deviation as a compass needle deviates towards magnetic North - to councils of "good people", partisan judges, military interference etc - anything which protects the interests of the entrenched elite and their urban middle class hangers on.

[JRSoul]

In my 23 years here I have seen nothing to match the current levels of corruption and the abuse of power and the self serving actions of one family and their clique.

.

It was all going so well up until the point where this line appeared. I presume this is another coded anti Shinawatra whine. What you fail to realise is that the Shins are relative newcomers and relatively small fry. Forbes magazine ranked them as the tenth wealthiest family in Thailand. What you need to ask yourself is.....what are the other nine families up to. Anyone who thinks that the Shins invented corruption, or made it worse than it was, needs their head examined.

What leads you to believe/claim that the 9 wealthiest families in Thailand are corrupt? Do you have any proof to support this?

OTOH it is documented that Thaksin won a contract to supply the BIB with computers while he was a serving officer, that he wrote the specs for the contract, and while his father-in-law was the chief of police. Nothing suspect there, just a nice way to start building a fortune.

[Scamper]

Good article.

[pisico]

The political chessboard we are now seeing has arisen from an agrarian Buddhist absolute monarchy society with orderly thinking along with patronage and strictly defined lines of authority.

1932 caused a change in the system, which brought into effect alternating power struggles both politically and military influenced also social power struggles came into play and even now those groups are active as we see daily,,

We are all well aware of the consequences of those movements actions which today have left Thailand suspended in a miasma of truths and lies of the past resulting in the failed strictures of the present.

Now we must ask ourselves.

Does any one group actually have a solution, or is it that there must be a collection of groups who will co-operate so as to enable Thailand and its peoples to move forward to a more democratic society where the politicians serve the country and its people as opposed to the politicians serving serving themselves?

It seems now as if the people themselves are becoming aware of the situation and also their power to change the course of political skulduggery here in Thailand.

I often wonder when I read some of the comments here just how many of those posters with views espousing violence as solution to the current problems if those posters have any real commitment to Thailand. I.E. family business , property etc.

We have 3 boys and they hold dual nationality, however they love Thailand and they want a peaceful democratic future with far less corruption,( we shall never completely erase corruption sad to say it exists in all societies) as I wish to see,

In my 23 years here I have seen nothing to match the current levels of corruption and the abuse of power and the self serving actions of one family and their clique.

This current situation has to be stopped so as Thailand and its peoples can and will move forward.

Whether we like it or not or whether we can accept it or not the people of Thailand are moving in the right direction . Those current leaders will fade into the background and no doubt become popular figures in later years.

Look at the life of Pridi Banomyong. Even now Pridi is a hero to many but a culprit to some, however his action were the match that lit the fuse that has slowly developed into the current P.R.D.C movement..

.Below is a short extract concerning Pridi and you will find the link which may help to understand the current situation and the players motives who are the current situation along with their aims.

There is no doubt that Pridi wanted to remove Phibun from power, and the war offered an opportunity to do so. However, there is no question that Pridi recognised well before the war that Thailand’s alignment with the Axis powers would work to Phibun’s advantage and enable him to strengthen his dictatorship. Even the Japanese recognised Pridi’s hostility, which is why he was forced out of the cabinet in December 1941. It was the reason every knowledgeable person on the Allied side, from Seni Pramoj and Prince Suphasawat, a chief organiser of the movement in Great Britain, to former British ambassador Josiah Crosby, anticipated that Pridi would emerge as the head of a domestic resistance movement.

​Pridi Banomyong - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I respectfully do not agree with parts of your comment.

Suthep, a corrupt politico from the South is hardly an understudy to Pridi. Furthermore, you are addressing 2 different scenarios that are not analogous. (In 1995, Suthep’s Sor Por Kor 4-01 land scheme scandal led to the downfall of the Democrat-led Chuan Leekpai government. As a Miniser of Agriculture he resigned under threat of being indicted.... Of course. there’s the rubber shenanigans during the Abhisit Vejjajiva-led government... and the Palm Oil Scheme.)

At Pridi's time when Japan so smoothly and without national armed opposition occupied Thailand, there was a military oligarchy in power in Thailand.

Nowadays, there is a lawful and democratically elected government in place. Circumstances and dynamics are totally different.

We are in the presence of a crooked politico who is trying to beat the rap of being in charge of the crackdown in which close to 100 people (foreigners, soldiers, red shirts, nurses and innocent people being sheltered in wats) lost their lives.

Suthep very wily used the opportunity of the improper Amnesty law to turn it into a campaign to topple the PM.

Why he continues escalating his actions every time the government makes a concession? After the Amnesty was the dissolution of the house. After that came the unilateral decision not to participate in any elections and parallel to that the seeking reforms of a system that has ruled Thailand for centuries. Lastly, his ditch effort is to block successfully the elections.

Suthep is just one more, of many, enabling an archaic and feudalistic system. Now he portrays himself to the simpletons as a reformer.

Since 2006 Suthep and Abhisit had plenty of opportunities to push for reforms while in power backed by the graces of the Bangkokian elite and the military that paved the way to their ascension to power.

What is happening now is an undemocratic power grab spearheaded by a historically proven corrupt politico.

Does anybody think that the claimed "reforms" will benefit the farmers, peasants, laborers, blue and white collar workers of Thailand?

Only deeply naive people will believe the farce that Suthep wants to rid the country of the Thaksin regime.

Both Suthep andThaksin are deserving of historical censure and jail time.

[Chicog]

I really think it should read "They are calling for reforms to prevent cronyism and corruption, especially in politics and governance, and the police and justice system".

[Mudcrab]

If they are not carful... They could have a reform in this country that will take them all out.

People only put up with oppression for so long and one more coup will be one too many. I cannot see a way back from it and these academics are crying in the wilderness. If the Red side have to come out, they will not be listening to self serving elitise garbage from these people.

Pol Pip has spoken.

[Robby nz]

So after another 20 posts we are back to name calling and crap again.

Lets hope the group mentioned in the OP can get together a better lot of people than on here.

[ourmanflint]

Much of the hate the protestors have are for the Shinawatras, in particular the scum in Dubai. If the PTP would distance themselves from the Shinawatras and Dubai and even make a show of pretending to want to arrest him, Suthep's support would dwindle dramatically.

It's not a cure all but the fact remains there are as much people who love the scum of Dubal as there are those who wish he'd drop dead. Get rid of Yingluck and of the Shinawatra relatives from the government. This is a country after all, not their company. The PTP still win the elections but without Shinawatra influence, they can go about actually governing instead of thinking of schemes to get the scum back home. People on the other side are more likely to be receptive of a government, even a PTP one, that isn't led by an overseas mass murdering fugitive.

In a word no! TRT and PTP are/were nothing without the Thaksin engine driving them along, they only exist to enfranchise one family. I doubt anyone in PTP would have any clue what to do without being told.

[Spalpeen]

In my 23 years here I have seen nothing to match the current levels of corruption and the abuse of power and the self serving actions of one family and their clique.

.

It was all going so well up until the point where this line appeared. I presume this is another coded anti Shinawatra whine. What you fail to realise is that the Shins are relative newcomers and relatively small fry. Forbes magazine ranked them as the tenth wealthiest family in Thailand. What you need to ask yourself is.....what are the other nine families up to. Anyone who thinks that the Shins invented corruption, or made it worse than it was, needs their head examined.

What leads you to believe/claim that the 9 wealthiest families in Thailand are corrupt? Do you have any proof to support this?

.

Because the Pope is a catholic and bears shit in the woods. It never ceases to amaze me that there are people who believe that corruption in Thailand started with Thaksin, and that before him it was a corruption free paradise (with a coup every four years).

[DirtFarmer]

Acronyms smackronyms crony-ronims.. Sighep himself has changed acronyms more than a grandmother changes her underwear.. in the last 3 months... what is it ? 4 different groups now since he started this mess...and isn't it ironic that 3 days before the election all these 'would be reformists...join the reform trail.. at the end when he is on the verge of causing a street war... in the meantime forget your rights to vote they don't matter because I said so they don't count in my book anyway.. only my way ...or the hiway....so now as some would have it. no elections... no payments made... because a caretaker government cannot allocate funds... a defunct election commission...scholars and ignats pontificating naval lint as the new truth. the new way the way to reform...and you know very little is going to change at this point in history unless all of the government resigns,, all of the Authorities and utilities hierarchy resign,, the Ceo's and staff of the top ten Agri-business's resign...all members of Parliament recuse themselves from politics permanently members of the SET all the heads of Transport,, Customs,, Immigration and I can go on ad infinitum....my goodness does Thailand have unemployment compensation...? because to eradicate corruption and for there to be even the semblance of a clean slate.. all of the above and more would have to take place... I don't believe for a minute any of the guys at the trough are ready willing or able to give it up..they are addicted to it.. and society has absorbed it far too long and too deep to truly embrace any kind of real reform in under a generation ...perhaps two generations...but a start would be to focus on educating everybody to a standard that is inline with what is going to be necessary for the future and survival...Charon Pokphands One of Asia's Largest conglomerates and is the largest company in Thailand not owned by the State with revenues equivalent to over 10% of the Thai National GDP...was involved in an attempt to funnel money into the Democratic Election campaign of Bill Clinton back in the day and because of the failed "reform of campaign contributions" implemented by George Bush...one of the subjects of a previous post here in TV, by Pornpimol Kanchanalakand she very nearly got away with it..as she was the conduit for the $700k US pipeline... it failed and she was charged and convicted in the USA and given a slap on the wrist...and just as a coincidence [or not] Abhisets Father Athasit Vejjajiva serves as an Independent Director of Charoen Pokphand Foods Public Co. Ltd....

http://townhall.com/columnists/michellemalkin/2001/04/25/paulines_puny_punishment

but she got her photo-ops and white house invites etc etc.. (all in public records) but I digress... the point was.. we are talking heavyweight players here... and if you think that any of these guys are gonna change their MO you are sorely mistaken... [follow the money] it is equally as believable that The World Bank, Triad..., Illuminati,, Rothschilds.., Askenazi's,.. and all of the other major players will reform as well... and have a group mia culpa at Asok Intersection [not] It will not happen.. what is possible is the new found awareness has more than a 6 month lifespan in the hearts and minds of the 'real reformists' and they start with education... if people do not understand what reform is they cannot reform... much-less understand the word or meaning of Democracy but merely apply it to their version/vision of how things should be...meanwhile as with many other places the least of the evils available is going to be the only option,,, and until the time when understanding becomes the foundation for reform through education. i fear it will be same-same but different faces at the trough .. but meanwhile discard all the Democratic progress that Thailand has come to embrace in the last 80 years...in an effort to play on the world field...? I think not... it cannot succumb to Oligarchy which is the net thrust of the current protest... I'm sure there will be a lot who disagree and that is good,, but this is only my opinion

Edited January 30, 2014 by DirtFarmer

[JRSoul]

What leads you to believe/claim that the 9 wealthiest families in Thailand are corrupt? Do you have any proof to support this?

.

Because the Pope is a catholic and bears shit in the woods. It never ceases to amaze me that there are people who believe that corruption in Thailand started with Thaksin, and that before him it was a corruption free paradise (with a coup every four years).

You sound like a little man annoyed because somebody else eats a tastier shit sandwich than you do. Wealth is not always an indicator of corruption, even though it often is.

[pisico]

Acronyms smackronyms crony-ronims.. Sighep himself has changed acronyms more than a grandmother changes her underwear.. in the last 3 months... what is it ? 4 different groups now since he started this mess...and isn't it ironic that 3 days before the election all these 'would be reformists...join the reform trail.. at the end when he is on the verge of causing a street war... in the meantime forget your rights to vote they don't matter because I said so they don't count in my book anyway.. only my way ...or the hiway....so now as some would have it. no elections... no payments made... because a caretaker government cannot allocate funds... a defunct election commission...scholars and ignats pontificating naval lint as the new truth. the new way the way to reform...and you know very little is going to change at this point in history unless all of the government resigns,, all of the Authorities and utilities hierarchy resign,, the Ceo's and staff of the top ten Agri-business's resign...all members of Parliament recuse themselves from politics permanently members of the SET all the heads of Transport,, Customs,, Immigration and I can go on ad infinitum....my goodness does Thailand have unemployment compensation...? because to eradicate corruption and for there to be even the semblance of a clean slate.. all of the above and more would have to take place... I don't believe for a minute any of the guys at the trough are ready willing or able to give it up..they are addicted to it.. and society has absorbed it far too long and too deep to truly embrace any kind of real reform in under a generation ...perhaps two generations...but a start would be to focus on educating everybody to a standard that is inline with what is going to be necessary for the future and survival...Charon Pokphands One of Asia's Largest conglomerates and is the largest company in Thailand not owned by the State with revenues equivalent to over 10% of the Thai National GDP...was involved in an attempt to funnel money into the Democratic Election campaign of Bill Clinton back in the day and because of the failed "reform of campaign contributions" implemented by George Bush...one of the subjects of a previous post here in TV, by Pornpimol Kanchanalakand she very nearly got away with it..as she was the conduit for the $700k US pipeline... it failed and she was charged and convicted in the USA and given a slap on the wrist...and just as a coincidence [or not] Abhisets Father Athasit Vejjajiva serves as an Independent Director of Charoen Pokphand Foods Public Co. Ltd....

http://townhall.com/columnists/michellemalkin/2001/04/25/paulines_puny_punishment

but she got her photo-ops and white house invites etc etc.. (all in public records) but I digress... the point was.. we are talking heavyweight players here... and if you think that any of these guys are gonna change their MO you are sorely mistaken... [follow the money] it is equally as believable that The World Bank, Triad..., Illuminati,, Rothschilds.., Askenazi's,.. and all of the other major players will reform as well... and have a group mia culpa at Asok Intersection [not] It will not happen.. what is possible is the new found awareness has more than a 6 month lifespan in the hearts and minds of the 'real reformists' and they start with education... if people do not understand what reform is they cannot reform... much-less understand the word or meaning of Democracy but merely apply it to their version/vision of how things should be...meanwhile as with many other places the least of the evils available is going to be the only option,,, and until the time when understanding becomes the foundation for reform through education. i fear it will be same-same but different faces at the trough .. but meanwhile discard all the Democratic progress that Thailand has come to embrace in the last 80 years...in an effort to play on the world field...? I think not... it cannot succumb to Oligarchy which is the net thrust of the current protest... I'm sure there will be a lot who disagree and that is good,, but this is only my opinion

Kudos to you!!

More than an opinion it is a well documented logical examination of causes of the status quo and the components that play a major role in it.

Unfortunately, Adolf was right: "The great mass cannot grasp the meaning of ideas when it has been told many things. Even smaller is its collective memory." This paragraph can be found in Mein Kampf.

This is in essence what Suthep has done since the beginning of his campaign to defeat the Amnesty bill 3 months ago. Does anyone think that the drones in the fools street parade remember the genesis of the protest?

As far as democratic progress, that is a misnomer when we recount the events from 1932 to the present. It is rather a roller coaster of vested interests taking turns at the trough.

Khun Voranai once wrote that every body in Thailand is agreeable to maintaining corruption as long as each one waits for his/her turn to take a bite of the mango that the government trough is. The reason Thaksin is hated by Democrats and a rainbow of shirt colors (other than red) is because he tried to eat the entire mango tree. Unforgivable!

Edited January 30, 2014 by pisico

[BlueNoseCodger]

"They are calling for reforms to prevent cronyism and corruption, overhaul politics and governance, improve the police and justice system, prevent business monopolies, and strengthen civil society"

No-one will argue with that...A little like "Motherhood and apple pie".

So take it to Parliament

" a large group of publicly respected figures..."

As long as it is not a group of elites publically respected by the "Pad-Dem's"...They are not the "public", but just an electoral minority segment. It is a common trait of the PAD-Dem's to create all these seemingly independent groups they like to call 'networks', but which in essence are just "different groups, same PAD-Dem faces"

So take it to Parliament This statement shows that you don't really want reform.

The reason we are in this mes today is because the parliamentary system isn't really working. The house speaker only supports PT. The Dems have asked Yingluck 120 questions since she became PM but for some reason she could only answer 2. Maybe because she never shows up?

Yeeah, let's take it to parliament because that was working very well the last 2.5 years.

Oh but it is working! Your corrupt, lazy politicians aren't getting elected. And she is winning enough to be able to ignore their trolls!

The country was doing great, the stop market reached new highs, inward investment into Thailand as the hub of ASEAN, and all of this from democracy.

So yeh, works great.

[3NUMBAS]

propaganda ,theres no alternative to a democracy where parties air their ideas and people vote for them

[tilac2]

In my 23 years here I have seen nothing to match the current levels of corruption and the abuse of power and the self serving actions of one family and their clique.

.

It was all going so well up until the point where this line appeared. I presume this is another coded anti Shinawatra whine. What you fail to realise is that the Shins are relative newcomers and relatively small fry. Forbes magazine ranked them as the tenth wealthiest family in Thailand. What you need to ask yourself is.....what are the other nine families up to. Anyone who thinks that the Shins invented corruption, or made it worse than it was, needs their head examined.

What leads you to believe/claim that the 9 wealthiest families in Thailand are corrupt? Do you have any proof to support this?

.

Because the Pope is a catholic and bears shit in the woods. It never ceases to amaze me that there are people who believe that corruption in Thailand started with Thaksin, and that before him it was a corruption free paradise (with a coup every four years).

I agree, Spalpeen. Of course, corruption is very hard to measure but I can see no evidence that it increased in Thaksin's time. Actually the reverse.

Why people keep saying things like 'corruption has become far worse since the Shins' beats me. Such statements seem to be based on about as little evidence as statements that Thaksin was 'the most evil man in Thai history'.

The current data from the Univ of the Thai Chamber of Commerce that I can find is equivocal and doesn't stretch far enough back in time to reveal convincing trends.

These are indicators about Thailand's levels of corruption a few years back:

http://asiancorrespondent.com/41919/now-thaksin-gone-is-thailand-becoming-less-corrupt-part-ii/

http://bangkokpundit.blogspot.com/2005/12/thailand-and-corruption.html

By the way, the last link contains the following admirable comment:

"...history should remember Thaksin - not as a corrupt leader - but a leader that moved Thailand forward, but was the target of gross lies and hatred."

Now that'll annoy some people!

[Thai at Heart]

In my 23 years here I have seen nothing to match the current levels of corruption and the abuse of power and the self serving actions of one family and their clique.

.

It was all going so well up until the point where this line appeared. I presume this is another coded anti Shinawatra whine. What you fail to realise is that the Shins are relative newcomers and relatively small fry. Forbes magazine ranked them as the tenth wealthiest family in Thailand. What you need to ask yourself is.....what are the other nine families up to. Anyone who thinks that the Shins invented corruption, or made it worse than it was, needs their head examined.

What leads you to believe/claim that the 9 wealthiest families in Thailand are corrupt? Do you have any proof to support this?

.

Because the Pope is a catholic and bears shit in the woods. It never ceases to amaze me that there are people who believe that corruption in Thailand started with Thaksin, and that before him it was a corruption free paradise (with a coup every four years).

At minimum they have enabled policy corruption to give their businesses protection.. Just look at the size of the thai businesses in the protected list of companies.

[selftaopath]

The "widely respected 185 public figures" is a euphemism for "the establishment elite."

That might be so, but it is undeniable that things will have to change somehow. You cannot expect a majority PTP (or Dem) government to implement sweeping reforms to the constitution and civil laws that damage their interests and deprive them of power and influence.

These protests have been a long time coming. I think it quite obvious that (some) people would have enough of the rampant corruption and nepotism that Thai politics are infamous for. Sure, other countries have the same problems or are worse, but those are not the concern here.

However, I am convinced that Suthep is NOT the right figure for leading these reforms. I also believe that it is legally very difficult, if not impossible, to institute real reforms to the laws of the country outside the parliamentary system.

So, a catch-22 situation.

An elected PTP government who has been working for years to dismantle the checks and balances, placing their own puppets in every possible position of power and having the sole agenda to stay in power to get their dear CEO back is now expected to change their ways. Fat chance.

On the other hand, putting an unelected group of establishment types in "temporary" positions of authority to wisely make new laws that are fairer is also not credible.

Right now, there is no climate of negotiation or compromise. Each side is stridently sticking to their positions, digging in. It has become a siege.

The PDRC is trying to slowly choke the PTP into submission and the PTP (Shin Clan) is staying in place and waiting it out.

In the meantime, the country itself is going financially down the drain.

Thank you for your post. IMO the Shin rulers want complete power/control of Thailand. They will stop at nothing to achieve this goal.

[Siripon]

Yet another group joined the reform bandwagon yesterday, a trail first blazed by the great reformist, Lung Suthep.

The Reform Now Network, an alliance of 74 organisations from business, academia, banks and civic groups want talks to begin at once on decentralisation, politics and anti corruption measures.

It maybe the Year of the Horse for the Chinese but for Thailand it's the Year of Reform.

[jayboy]

Yet another group joined the reform bandwagon yesterday, a trail first blazed by the great reformist, Lung Suthep.

The Reform Now Network, an alliance of 74 organisations from business, academia, banks and civic groups want talks to begin at once on decentralisation, politics and anti corruption measures.

It maybe the Year of the Horse for the Chinese but for Thailand it's the Year of Reform.

Excellent.My only comment is that the Reform Now Network should expand its membership beyond hard line Anti Thaksinites,feudalists and old school bankers and capitalists.With a membership representing decent and honest people on all sides there is hope.

Incidentally I know personally some of the RNN members.They are traditionalists but still first class with a major contribution to make.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[blabth]

I think many of us feel that reforms are needed in Thailand but at the same time it is also a feeling that democratic reforms should be done the democratic ways. Thailand has a system of free election, ( please forget the vote buying BS ) and also parties all groups have a possibility to be voted for. It is the lack of transparency, the lack of programs to address the needs of the people which push the people to vote may be for a party which is than using the power for their own benefit. There is no need to change the constitution, to change the processes there is a need to change the parties that they become transparent. Who is financing the parties? Is there a law which requires the parties openly to display their sponsors. All donation of more than 100,000 Baht should be shown with the sponsor.

The parties have to establish program showing what is their plan for the next parliamentary session, what is their objective in domestic politics, in economical politics, foreign affairs etc. until now people vote for the person who promises most to them.

The task is not to change the system but to strengthen the democratic system. A party which do not participate on an election loses the right to be called political party. Did the leaders of the Democratic Party ever asked the members if the agree with that?

Get your act together and use all this momentum now to become an opposition in the parliament that the government will feel the control. That is the process used in all democratic countries.

And don't say that Thailand's democracy is to young and not mature, look at South Korea, Japan, Germany, or Czech Republic Poland which have become democracies much later, and it works.

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