Thai Army refuses govts request for troops to protect PM Yingluck

[Tokay]

The PM of a nation can't get protection from the police or the military. That is unbelievable.

Edited February 5, 2014 by Tokay

[Snig27]

The positive point of the response is that she still can get unnoticed on the plane to Dubai.

What is it about the Dubai chant that makes some posters think provides endless wit?

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[noitom]

The troops in front don't have bullet proof vests on but the ones further back in the rank do? One can assume that it's some sort of posed photograph.

[retsdon]

Discussing Thai politics is like having a conversation at the Hatter's tea party in Alice in Wonderland. The talk is conventional, but the reality surrounding the conversations is anything but. So all this talk about voting and constitutions etc, as if we were in a normal democratic state is like talk around a tea table down a rabbit hole.

The reality in Thailand is that true power has NEVER EVER resided with a democratically elected government. Such governments are either the public face of the real powers, of if not, are allowed to exist on sufferance only so long as they don't threaten the status quo or get above themselves. The minute they do either, they're out.

`At any rate I'll never go there again!' said Alice as she picked her way through the wood. `It's the stupidest tea-party I ever was at in all my life!'

[thesetat2013]

She is not their boss. In their constitution it states in chapter 2 section 10 that the king holds the position as head of the armed forces. So YL has no control or power to tell the Army what to do. She can only ask for help.

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[noitom]

Not hard to see how Japan just walked in and took over the place in 1941. The Thai army was waiting for the proper forms to be stamped and put in the post.

And the Thais promptly declared war on the US and the UK. Then when the cold war fired up in the 50s, the Thai army came hat in hand for US money to "assist" in fighting communism. The "assist" turned in to one the largest scams of US taxpayer money ever as the Thai establishment and military complex got fat on the skimmed US military and economic aid. Still going on today.

[Publicus]

The army leader has a better head on his shoulders than the rest of the leaders in this country. Maybe he should run for PM. At least he follows proceedures.

He is not under the caretaker gov orders anyway. Only the king can order him what to do.

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The commanding general doesn't need to run for PM - he's got a whole army for anytime he wants the position.

[Somtamnication]

Why would the military protect the very same person they will overthrow in a few days?

[Publicus]

Khaosod's provocative and news-catching headline would indeed be news, but the story merely illustrates a break in deployment protocol.

" As far as I know, Mr. Surapong only talked via the media," Lt.Col. Winthai said in a press conference, "There has been no written document requesting [the troops] so far. "

This is Pheu Thai's habit. Whether it is the NACC, the EC, or the army - they simply talk over the heads of everyone through the media. This method, however, speaks volumes when it comes to the fact that Pheu Thai is essentially uncomfortable with talking with anyone other than themselves.

" It lacks clarity," Lt.Col. Winthai complained, "If the army is involved, the police should back their claim with evidence," such as names, divisions, and their actual offences. Furthermore, Lt.Col. Winthai said, the suspects in question could be retired officers who are no longer associated with the military. "That is just talking without evidence," Lt.Col. Winthai said. "

That's a pretty direct way of saying the police have no idea what they're doing, are not interested in the petty conventions of collecting evidence, and are instead interested in preceding every investigation with the conclusions of it that fit their narrative. The tension between the army and the police - or indeed between the army and the administration - could not be more strained.

What's with the military's drama queen press conference and commotion? The PM's principal officer of the government charged with managing the response to the insurrection made a verbal public request of the military while addressing the country live on television. The PM also is the minister of defense.

The PM and ministers are temporarily headquartered - in the Ministry of Defense buildings. Yes an executive order is required in such an instance, so a cooperative and LOS smiling Gen Prayuth can walk with the PM and her principals to the computer in Prayuth's office to produce the one-sentence formal "request", composed in perhaps one brief paragraph at the most. The law books are in the MoD library to cite the Thai legal code and its specific provisions in this respect.

The only thing LTC Winthai didn't do at his OTT press conference was to put on makeup, wear a wig and break out in song.

If the military intends to cooperate, as it's ordered to do by proper authority under law, then the military needs to cooperate forthwith. What's with all the OTT thespian showboat hemming and hawing song and dance?

Such a sorry and pathetic cast of characters around here, to include the high kicking chorus line of supporting posters that are at the backdrop, TVF.

Edited February 6, 2014 by Publicus

[gabruce]

Might be the first concrete clue toward that C word no one wants to state

Better go out and buy a couple cases and some hard stuff, just stock up in case

yeeeesh

It would be except that this looks to me like just sensationalist reporting. A previous report somewhere else had more details. Surapong didn't ask the army, he told the media. The army responded by saying we already have a battalion committed, soldiers outside, soldiers inside. If you want something ask us directly, not issue a press release, and finally, if the Prime Minister want's additional protection, have her ask through the chain of command/channels. They also said they'd appreciate some indication of exactly what additional forces they want and why.

So no. Not a pre coup statement. Just the army talking to some caretaker deputy pm that is only playing politics.

[Showbags]

these thugs are trusted with live ammo?

and top quality bomb detectors.

Why would the military protect the very same person they will overthrow in a few days?

to open the door silly...

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed as well as a post containing Thai language.

[tragickingdom]

Just purge the officers who refuse to listen to an elected government. It is long overdue that rogue generals and officers face jail just like in Turkey. If you do not lock them up they never learn and they really start to believe that they are above the law.

[jpduggan]

It seems to me that the request was not actually refused but that the Army want it in writing through the proper channels. Reasonable all things considered.

[HOAX]

Organisation and planning in Thailand is as good as it's always been.

Come on guys, this was no shocker.

[Chang_paarp]

But Lt.Col. Winthai Suvaree, deputy spokesman of the army, said today that Mr. Surapong has to submit the request via an appropriate channel, which is the Office of the Permanent Secretary of the Ministry of Defence.

After the request is approved, the army divisions would be informed how many troops are needed, and what their missions will be, in order to arrange a suitable deployment for the operation to safeguard the Prime Minister, said Lt.Col. Winthai Suvaree.

"No one should expect the army to suddenly send troops without proper request, because that′s against the procedure," Lt.Col. Winthai explained, adding that the army is still waiting for "more clarity" from Mr. Surapong in his requests.

The government is being told to use proper channels to make request, the media is not considered a proper channel. Transparency is the key word here, leave a paper trail so if it goes to pot there is someone else to blame.

If the army keep this up, they may have the bureaucratic side of a coup sorted, just need to to work on the governing thing that they admit they don't get. Then they might be ready to have another go.

[transam]

I went into Lao yesterday, sitting having a beer when a van pulled up, couple of guys got out to work on and load up a cash ATM. What surprised me was a third guy got out dressed in a Lao army uniform with a machine gun , my thoughts were, wow, the military here are given something to do.........

[Gweiloman]

I would ask the moderators to remove this post and punish the member

I my self do not like the PM

But like her or not she is the PM and deserved the respect of the position

No she is a caretaker PM, she has failed miserably whilst PM, shes up on several charges of which she will get thrown out of office over (and have her party dissolved)

The only respect shes earned is the same respect you give to any vermin in your house...

It does not matter whether she is a failed PM or not. Insulting someone, anyone, whether a professional, politician, bar girl, prostitute, street cleaner, farmer, rubbish collector merely exposes your own level of intellect and human decency. Everyone has someone who loves them, be it their parents or children. I respect that and would never stoop so low as to calling them names.

Mom (RIP), thanks for teaching me values.

Get a grip on yourself.

I was taught values also by my mum.

I was also taught to respect people's opinion also which in itself is a virtuous value.

I am also in possession of a reasonable level of intellect.

I agree with those who say that respect is earned and not given by default. If someone wants to call Yingluck an old witch, that's fine with me, I happen to agree. My summary would be a lot more scathing after the damage she has facilitated her brother to create in this country where I, my wife and children have to live.

She has earned NO respect from either Thai or foreigner.

My wife personally thinks she should just drop dead already, and my wife has a master's degree and 2 bachelor's degrees. Don't even dare try to criticize my wife, she is Thai and you are not, so you are in no position to criticize anyone born and raised here.

What Thaksin, Yingluck and the PTP have done to this country, deserves zero respect and all the disrespect possible from every quarter.

The amount of money they are stealing from the people and the absolute trashing of Thailand's rice industry probably for at least the next decade, I am sure they can handle the odd witch comment.

Stop pretending you really care, they would not piss o9n you if you were on fire. You are no more than scum to these people.

"Don't even dare try to criticize my wife, she is Thai and you are not, so you are in no position to criticize anyone born and raised here."

Exactly! I have no intention of criticizing your wife and that is not because she is Thai and I'm not. I'm just not in the habit of criticizing people without justification, that is just poor form and speaks poorly about the poster's upbringing. Your comment that I am in no position to criticize anyone born and raised here supports my post completely (or was that a slip?)

Thais have the right to criticize their own government. As foreigners, we don't have the same right and need to bite our tongue a bit more. We may express our discontent in our own homes and to our own family members but that is where it should stop.

[HOOD Robin]

Can't trust the police to protect you, Poo? Sucks to be you!

Maybe she can ask big brother to send Alibaba and the 40 thieves for protection out from the desert....

[rubl]

I'm amazed at the number of posters who don't think the army should be subservient to the civilian government or that the party that lost in the last election can decide they will not accept the results of the election. Clearly the Democrats aren't the only ones who don't believe in democracy.

A question for the western posters: There have been a number of western countries that experienced economic chaos caused in whole or part by incompetent government. Did you advocate having these governments toppled by a military coup or mob rule?

Did we have a fully operation democratic system with checks and balances in place in those Western Countries ? No offence meant, but even in Greece, Spain and Portugal things finally work.

Have the recent actions of the Constitutional Court wrt the Amnesty Bill and the proposed amendment to the election of Senators completely passed you by rubl?

Checks and Balances anyone?

Have the recent actions of the Pheu Thai led government regarding the sneakili modifications of the amnesty bill into a blanket amnesty bill passed you by fabs? Did you miss the two readings and two votes in slightly more than 24 hours? Did you miss PM Yingluck saying 'wait, don't protest, go home, more to do'? Did you miss the Senate speaker francktically trying to get a quorum together three days before planned and reported to all senators? Did you miss PM Yingluck's remarks of "not our fault, it's up to the senate"? Did you miss the Pheu Thai saying "we withdrew all bills" while they only withdrew those which hadn't passed through parliament yet. Did you really miss all that?

Somehow unbelievable, with all your comments whenever I try to remind you.

[rubl]

Did we have a fully operation democratic system with checks and balances in place in those Western Countries ? No offence meant, but even in Greece, Spain and Portugal things finally work.

Thailand's checks and balances are whatever the military installed government put in the current constitution, which apparently can't be changed. In Greece, Spain, Portugal, and other countries citizens there staged headline making protests, but the governments were changed through the democratic process.

Thailand's democracy won't mature until elected governments are allowed to finish their terms, losing parties concentrate on positioning themselves to win the next election instead of toppling the elected government through any means possible, and the military stays in the barracks. It would help if Thailand's courts made it clear how the elected government can change the constitution that both sides in the political divide consider flawed.

We're getting a bit off topic, but follow this link for a analysis of the 2007 constitution in comparition with the 1997 version. Lots of checks and balances to protect the people added.

http://www.thailawforum.com/articles/Thailand-Eighteeth-Consititution.html

But wasn't it only yesterday, or the day before, you said this

"May I remind you that over 90% of the text is identical to that wonderful 1997 people's constitution!"

So what's it to be, less than 10% of the constitution has been changed or "lots of checks and balances added"?

Both, but then I've provided this link a few times already and till now you haven't remarked on it's contents, just your usual obfuscation.

[fab4]

I'm amazed at the number of posters who don't think the army should be subservient to the civilian government or that the party that lost in the last election can decide they will not accept the results of the election. Clearly the Democrats aren't the only ones who don't believe in democracy.

A question for the western posters: There have been a number of western countries that experienced economic chaos caused in whole or part by incompetent government. Did you advocate having these governments toppled by a military coup or mob rule?

Did we have a fully operation democratic system with checks and balances in place in those Western Countries ? No offence meant, but even in Greece, Spain and Portugal things finally work.

Have the recent actions of the Constitutional Court wrt the Amnesty Bill and the proposed amendment to the election of Senators completely passed you by rubl?

Checks and Balances anyone?

Have the recent actions of the Pheu Thai led government regarding the sneakili modifications of the amnesty bill into a blanket amnesty bill passed you by fabs? Did you miss the two readings and two votes in slightly more than 24 hours? Did you miss PM Yingluck saying 'wait, don't protest, go home, more to do'? Did you miss the Senate speaker francktically trying to get a quorum together three days before planned and reported to all senators? Did you miss PM Yingluck's remarks of "not our fault, it's up to the senate"? Did you miss the Pheu Thai saying "we withdrew all bills" while they only withdrew those which hadn't passed through parliament yet. Did you really miss all that?

Somehow unbelievable, with all your comments whenever I try to remind you.

It was to remind you of those checks and balances you go on about. Did they not work? Is it not the case that the Amnesty Bill was rejected by the Senate and the amendment to the constitution wrt the election of Senators was deemed unconstitutional?

Therefore the Checks and Balances are in place and work. End of.

[fab4]

We're getting a bit off topic, but follow this link for a analysis of the 2007 constitution in comparition with the 1997 version. Lots of checks and balances to protect the people added.

http://www.thailawforum.com/articles/Thailand-Eighteeth-Consititution.html

But wasn't it only yesterday, or the day before, you said this

"May I remind you that over 90% of the text is identical to that wonderful 1997 people's constitution!"

So what's it to be, less than 10% of the constitution has been changed or "lots of checks and balances added"?

Both, but then I've provided this link a few times already and till now you haven't remarked on it's contents, just your usual obfuscation.

So Less is More? Well that makes sense no doubt in the rubl universe.

[sonar6ca]

Why don't ask UN peace keepers, I am sure they will be happy to provide pprotection.

[thesetat2013]

I guess you were there or watched or even listened to the conversation or saw a video so you know your comment is accurate???

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[rubl]

Have the recent actions of the Constitutional Court wrt the Amnesty Bill and the proposed amendment to the election of Senators completely passed you by rubl?

Checks and Balances anyone?

Have the recent actions of the Pheu Thai led government regarding the sneakili modifications of the amnesty bill into a blanket amnesty bill passed you by fabs? Did you miss the two readings and two votes in slightly more than 24 hours? Did you miss PM Yingluck saying 'wait, don't protest, go home, more to do'? Did you miss the Senate speaker francktically trying to get a quorum together three days before planned and reported to all senators? Did you miss PM Yingluck's remarks of "not our fault, it's up to the senate"? Did you miss the Pheu Thai saying "we withdrew all bills" while they only withdrew those which hadn't passed through parliament yet. Did you really miss all that?

Somehow unbelievable, with all your comments whenever I try to remind you.

It was to remind you of those checks and balances you go on about. Did they not work? Is it not the case that the Amnesty Bill was rejected by the Senate and the amendment to the constitution wrt the election of Senators was deemed unconstitutional?

Therefore the Checks and Balances are in place and work. End of.

Don't worry, I'll remind you later that you've stated that checks and balances are in place and even work. That should at least be the end of 'judicial coups', 'pro-elite rulings' and the like

[rubl]

We're getting a bit off topic, but follow this link for a analysis of the 2007 constitution in comparition with the 1997 version. Lots of checks and balances to protect the people added.

http://www.thailawforum.com/articles/Thailand-Eighteeth-Consititution.html

But wasn't it only yesterday, or the day before, you said this

"May I remind you that over 90% of the text is identical to that wonderful 1997 people's constitution!"

So what's it to be, less than 10% of the constitution has been changed or "lots of checks and balances added"?

Both, but then I've provided this link a few times already and till now you haven't remarked on it's contents, just your usual obfuscation.

So Less is More? Well that makes sense no doubt in the rubl universe.

Even if less than 10% of text got changed, those changes can be substantial.

Anyway, all this still avoiding the fact that check and balances got added, extended and more protection setup for individuals protecting them from a nasty government.

So, let's just get back to the topic of an Army general refusing the ex-CAPO head and telling him to follow procedures.

[mikemac]

A red meat, handmade for Yingluck haters headline. Beyond misleading. Not true.

Agreed, nothing to see here, move along now. There is plenty of "red meat" on other forum topics for all you Yingluck haters. More than enough to feed you all.