Luk Kreung - trying to apply for Thai Passport, American Father not in Thailand

[p_brownstone]

A Thai - Female - friend is married to an American Citizen, they have a child, a boy, together who is now almost 13 years old (legitimate, all wedding certificates, Thai Birth Certificate, U.S. Consular Record of Birth etc. are in hand) ; they separated - but they are not officially divorced - when the child was about 2 years old; the father now lives and works in Okinawa; he has not seen the child for about 10 years and has never in any way supported either the mother or his child financially.

The boy already has a Thai I.D. Card.

My friend now wants to send her son to Summer School in the U.S. - in late March - for 6 weeks or so, financially this is absolutely no problem for her however we have run into a snag with Passports.

I imagined that obtaining the U.S. Passport could be a possible problem, however she had his original Passport, issued when he was about 1 year old, CRB and the notarised Form which the absent Parent has to sign to apply for the U.S. Passport, she applied and everything went smoothly, we expect to receive the Passport in a week or so - main problem solved ..... or so I thought.

However we are now told that in order to apply for a Thai Passport the Father must either be present at the time of application - in Bangkok obviously - or send a form, notarised by the local Thai Embassy in his Country of Residence, agreeing to the issuance of a Thai Passport!

Time is obviously short and there is no Thai Embassy or Consulate in Okinawa - as far as I can see only in Tokyo and Nara.

Is it really a requirement to have this document from the Father (it seems strange to me that a Thai National must receive permission from a non-Thai before a Passport can be issued but equally I know Laws are not always rational!) - is there any way around this? (I realise the Mother can apply for Sole Custody but, again, time is short and that will take ages to work its way through the Court system here!).

Any advice greatly appreciated!

Patrick

Edited February 6, 2014 by p_brownstone

[samran]

Mario will know more about this, but she really needs a court order saying she is the sole guardian of the child. And with that, she can sign for the passport herself.

Otherwise, yep, you need both parents to sign.

[ubonjoe]

One option might be to file for divorce at an Amphoe for abandonment. Then a Kor Ror 14 could be obtained to get the passport.

She should contact her local Amphoe to check on this possibility. I have heard of being able to get it done with witnesses to affirm the.abandonment.

[Thanyaburi Mac]

There seems to be an Honorary Thai Consulate in Okinawa in Naha City:

Okinawa

Royal Thai Honorary Consulate

1-35 Shurisakiyama-cho, Naha City, Okinawa 903-0814

Tel. (0988) 85-1534, Fax (0988) 85-1534

Mr. Takeshi Sakumoto Honorary Consul

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

But, am I misreading something here? What does the child need a Thai passport to go to the U.S. when it appears that he'll soon have an up to date U.S. passport? If using a Thai then would require a U.S. visa, adding just another complication.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Re possibility of divorce at the local amphur based on abandonment. I am under the impression that an amphur divorce can only be done if both parties are present to chop off on the paperwork. My now wife had to go to court for her divorce based on abandonment, not a real complicated process but did take about three months for all the proper procedures.

Mac

[ubonjoe]

The child needs a Thai passport to leave the country since they would not have an entry stamp in the US passport. Also without a Thai passport they would have re-enter Thailand on the US passport which would not be good. They would leave on the Thai passport and enter the US on the US passport.

I searched for honorary consulates but didn't find the Naha one. I guess I just didn't try hard enough. They can do the stamp for the consent letter. That is one of the things they can do.

I suspect the consent would need to be in Thai and English for them to do it. That to insure that the father understands what he signing.

I just mentioned the divorce as a option.

[Thanyaburi Mac]

Joe

Re the passport item, an American couple having a baby here gets only a U.S. passport, and has no difficulty departing with no arrival stamp.

Re the return, and stamping in on the U.S. passport, that could be resolved when they get the kid a Thai passport, then do a quickie run to Penang, for example, for the passport switch back to Thai.

Mac

[p_brownstone]

Joe

Re the passport item, an American couple having a baby here gets only a U.S. passport, and has no difficulty departing with no arrival stamp.

Re the return, and stamping in on the U.S. passport, that could be resolved when they get the kid a Thai passport, then do a quickie run to Penang, for example, for the passport switch back to Thai.

Mac

Thanks Mac - that seems a very good point which I had not thought of.

Anyone have a suggestion as to why we could not do that?

Although he is Luk-kreung and therefore entitled to a Thai Passport surely there is no regulation to make that mandatory - we simply say he is going to live with his Father in the U.S. and will not return so he does not need a Thai Passport?

Or am I missing something?

Patrick

[ubonjoe]

Joe

Re the passport item, an American couple having a baby here gets only a U.S. passport, and has no difficulty departing with no arrival stamp.

Re the return, and stamping in on the U.S. passport, that could be resolved when they get the kid a Thai passport, then do a quickie run to Penang, for example, for the passport switch back to Thai.

Mac

I am not sure how that would work because the child it a Thai. That will be shown on their birth certificate.

I know it can be done if child is not a Thai Citizen.

I suggest that as last option since there still a chance of getting the Thai passport.

If mother is able to contact her husband and he is willing to cooperate it should not take long to get it taken care of. It only take a couple of days for courier or even international EMS between here and Okinawa. The consent letter could be sent by email to him. Then printed out and signed at the consulate.

It only takes a few days to get the Thai passport.

[samran]

Joe

Re the passport item, an American couple having a baby here gets only a U.S. passport, and has no difficulty departing with no arrival stamp.

Re the return, and stamping in on the U.S. passport, that could be resolved when they get the kid a Thai passport, then do a quickie run to Penang, for example, for the passport switch back to Thai.

Mac

Thanks Mac - that seems a very good point which I had not thought of.

Anyone have a suggestion as to why we could not do that?

Although he is Luk-kreung and therefore entitled to a Thai Passport surely there is no regulation to make that mandatory - we simply say he is going to live with his Father in the U.S. and will not return so he does not need a Thai Passport?

Or am I missing something?

Patrick

Presumably the child will need to return to Thailand at the end of the 6 week summer school. In which case if he enters Thailand on the US passport he'll be treated as a foreigner for immigration purposes.

[Mario2008]

Best solution is to have the father sign the application form for a Thai passport, so the child can leave and enter Thailand on the Thai passport.

Not sure if a honorary consul can help, but one can ask the Thai consular department, nationality section. They tend to be very helpful.

Otherwise follow the suggestion of Ubonjoe: report the abondonment and try to get a khor por 14 form from the local amphur as sole provider.

[p_brownstone]

Joe

Re the passport item, an American couple having a baby here gets only a U.S. passport, and has no difficulty departing with no arrival stamp.

Re the return, and stamping in on the U.S. passport, that could be resolved when they get the kid a Thai passport, then do a quickie run to Penang, for example, for the passport switch back to Thai.

Mac

Thanks Mac - that seems a very good point which I had not thought of.

Anyone have a suggestion as to why we could not do that?

Although he is Luk-kreung and therefore entitled to a Thai Passport surely there is no regulation to make that mandatory - we simply say he is going to live with his Father in the U.S. and will not return so he does not need a Thai Passport?

Or am I missing something?

Patrick

Presumably the child will need to return to Thailand at the end of the 6 week summer school. In which case if he enters Thailand on the US passport he'll be treated as a foreigner for immigration purposes.

I realise that of course.

My main concern is that he is able to leave the Country to take part in the Summer School - he's really looking forward to it and I want to do everything possible to make sure he can go.

When he returns after 6 weeks we will have more time to get a Thai Passport - either have the Father get the necessary Form Notarised, have his Mother obtain Sole Custody, whatever; once he has the Thai Passport then we'll simply pop him on a 'plane to somewhere nearby - using his U.S. Passport of course - and have him return using the Thai Passport.

That said, we do still have time to get the Thai Passport organised before he leaves, I'm really just examining options if that falls through.

Patrick

Hmmm - I just realised another possible problem with this idea!

When he returns - without a Visa, just getting an Exemption, the Airline in the U.S. may refuse him Boarding because he does not have an onward Booking.

Edited February 7, 2014 by p_brownstone

[Thanyaburi Mac]

Patrick

6 weeks in the U.S. would be plenty of time to get him a Non-O or Tourist visa.

BTW, where is he headed, might be an Honorary Thai consulate nearby.

Mac

[ubonjoe]

I have been looking at passport application requirements on the MFA website in English http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/1415/21479-Requirements-for-the-Ordinary-e-Passports-Applicat.html

The requirement seem a bit vague and confusing. Perhaps it is a poor translation.

If the applicant was born to parents who did not sign a marriage certificate, only the mother of the applicant can sign the parental consent form. She will need to bring a letter guaranteeing sole guardianship issued by her domicile district office (Por Kor 14) accompanied by her ID Card which must bear the title ‘Miss’.

If the applicant’s parents were divorced or did not live together, a parent who is present to sign the parental consent form will need to bring the memorandum of divorce proving sole custody of the appearing parent.

How can there be a divorce certificate if they did not live together. It seems to me the Por Kor 14 would be used.

Perhaps the mother should have a look the requirements in Thai. http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/16263-Thai-Passport.html

I think a Por Kor 14 should be easy to get in this case at the Amphoe.

[FiftyTwo]

The child needs a Thai passport to leave the country since they would not have an entry stamp in the US passport. Also without a Thai passport they would have re-enter Thailand on the US passport which would not be good. They would leave on the Thai passport and enter the US on the US passport.

I searched for honorary consulates but didn't find the Naha one. I guess I just didn't try hard enough. They can do the stamp for the consent letter. That is one of the things they can do.

I suspect the consent would need to be in Thai and English for them to do it. That to insure that the father understands what he signing.

I just mentioned the divorce as a option.

Doesn't need a Thai passport to leave.

The normal procedure for a foreign child to leave for the first time on a new passport, is to take his birth certificate.

[ubonjoe]

The child needs a Thai passport to leave the country since they would not have an entry stamp in the US passport. Also without a Thai passport they would have re-enter Thailand on the US passport which would not be good. They would leave on the Thai passport and enter the US on the US passport.

I searched for honorary consulates but didn't find the Naha one. I guess I just didn't try hard enough. They can do the stamp for the consent letter. That is one of the things they can do.

I suspect the consent would need to be in Thai and English for them to do it. That to insure that the father understands what he signing.

I just mentioned the divorce as a option.

Doesn't need a Thai passport to leave.

The normal procedure for a foreign child to leave for the first time on a new passport, is to take his birth certificate.

He is not a foreign child he is Thai and his birth certificate says that. Plus he is almost 13 years old.

It might work but I doubt it very much. He might not get any further than the check in counter.

[FiftyTwo]

The child needs a Thai passport to leave the country since they would not have an entry stamp in the US passport. Also without a Thai passport they would have re-enter Thailand on the US passport which would not be good. They would leave on the Thai passport and enter the US on the US passport.

I searched for honorary consulates but didn't find the Naha one. I guess I just didn't try hard enough. They can do the stamp for the consent letter. That is one of the things they can do.

I suspect the consent would need to be in Thai and English for them to do it. That to insure that the father understands what he signing.

I just mentioned the divorce as a option.

Doesn't need a Thai passport to leave.

The normal procedure for a foreign child to leave for the first time on a new passport, is to take his birth certificate.

He is not a foreign child he is Thai and his birth certificate says that. Plus he is almost 13 years old.

It might work but I doubt it very much. He might not get any further than the check in counter.

If he shows a foreign passport, he is a foreign child.

OP says he has a US consular birth cert., he can use that.

Edited February 7, 2014 by FiftyTwo

[samran]

The child needs a Thai passport to leave the country since they would not have an entry stamp in the US passport. Also without a Thai passport they would have re-enter Thailand on the US passport which would not be good. They would leave on the Thai passport and enter the US on the US passport.

I searched for honorary consulates but didn't find the Naha one. I guess I just didn't try hard enough. They can do the stamp for the consent letter. That is one of the things they can do.

I suspect the consent would need to be in Thai and English for them to do it. That to insure that the father understands what he signing.

I just mentioned the divorce as a option.

Doesn't need a Thai passport to leave.

The normal procedure for a foreign child to leave for the first time on a new passport, is to take his birth certificate.

The child is also a Thai citizen. He'll require a Thai passport to leave and re-enter unless they want to be subject to immigration rules.