Thai govt told to urgently sell stockpiled rice

[espinoza]

But, the Thai farmers burn their fertiliser. They have so much money that they just buy fertilisers. The fertiliser for free they burn. Where is the stupid farmer going ?

[culicine]

Ladies and Gentleman, rice for sale:

tulsathit ‏@tulsathit14h

This may sum rice scheme up. RT @PatricLand: Govt rice warehouse in Lopburi

I can just imagine what unpaid farmers think after seeing that...

[rotorbreeze]

With the problem of looking for buyer ... why not make Saki, fermentation of rice wine...or alcohol for farmers to run their tractors or even have a party every night to forget the losses of what the Government promised.

Edited February 9, 2014 by metisdead
Oversize font reset to normal.

[northernjohn]

But the big boss said we will set the market price. What went wrong???

If Thai farmers are only 45% efficient as there Vietnamese opposition in the rice trade, then A Government neefs to look at that problem.

Maybe adopting farlang farming methods may help!!!!

5555555 but we know that will happen !!!!! Soon !!!!!!!

Sent from my GT-I8160 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Fariang farming methods can only be used on large corporate farms. Planting rice with a machine would put the average rice farmer into a cost they can not afford. The ROI would not justify the expense. Spreading fertilizer pesticides and herbicides with an air plane, how much does that cost.

The present rice pledging could cause the average farmer to lose his land because of non performing loans. There by corrupt politicians could take the land and set up large corporate farms. They would need some help from their friends in the UAE.

Some farmers where I live have recently started using rice planting machines on just a few rai of paddy. If it weren't profitable they wouldn't be doing it.

I have actually asked some family farmers about that. They would hire in machines together with others for their rice fields, since each parts lands were to small to carry the machines. The problem is everybody needs it at the same time so the price goes up.

I asked them how much they spent a year/per harvest for machines from outside, fertilizer, outside hands working per day, electricity for water pumps etc.

The whole family (quite big) had no idea. Nobody ever made the math to see if rice was the right thing to grow. They had done it for generations, so they still did it and as they said, they ate their own rice as well and then had rice for all the dogs running around also.

When I did the math with the prices I got from them, they worked for free and probably lost money, and would be better off, growing something else with some cash flow like vegetables.

This happened in Ubon area and they only have one harvest a year, so other places the numbers might add up better.

My point however is more, they just do as they always did, but didn't do the math, so about what they do is being profitable or not, I am not so sure, that is clear to all of them.

When I tried to bring it up in a gentle and humble way, nobody really cared. This was 4 years ago and they still grow rice once every year.

Well doing the math tells me that if they lose money every year they must have had a fortune to start with and continue for generations to lose money.

Actually common sense told me that.

[fish fingers]

I think this will be great living in Thailand. Now we are all enjoy the highest qualities of rice for rock bottom prices(No joke). It would be great to try all the really rare rice strains even they will be discounted with the flood of rice coming.

Is this a sick joke?

[fish fingers]

Even the Burmese are smuggling rice INTO thailand to pass off as thai rice and sell .. What a scandal

[northernjohn]

But the big boss said we will set the market price. What went wrong???

If Thai farmers are only 45% efficient as there Vietnamese opposition in the rice trade, then A Government neefs to look at that problem.

Maybe adopting farlang farming methods may help!!!!

5555555 but we know that will happen !!!!! Soon !!!!!!!

Sent from my GT-I8160 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Fariang farming methods can only be used on large corporate farms. Planting rice with a machine would put the average rice farmer into a cost they can not afford. The ROI would not justify the expense. Spreading fertilizer pesticides and herbicides with an air plane, how much does that cost.

The present rice pledging could cause the average farmer to lose his land because of non performing loans. There by corrupt politicians could take the land and set up large corporate farms. They would need some help from their friends in the UAE.

Plenty of mechanical rice planters and harvesters here in deepest darkest Isaan. Farmers aren't idiots regardless of what the expat barstool brigade like to think. They know efficiencies more than most. Some have the money to advance, some don't.

And a lot of money is being owed by the farmers who can't pay the harvester because they aren't being paid by the Government. Everyone has notes stating the value of them. They take them to the bank and, guess what, no money forthcoming.

Read a sad story about a farmer who took his own life.

His wife borrowed money for his funeral but couldn't pay it back. She also committed suicide. The daughter has her motorbike for sale to pay for Mum's funeral. And still no money coming in.

Yingluck has assured us that all the problems will be taken care of.

The poor daughter will be lucky to see the money for the rice much less the money for a funeral. the worst part is she is with out parents now. How does Yingluck plan on handling that. Maybe she should charge her self with murder.

[northernjohn]

Sorry, but I think the government has bright enough brains to figure out this at their own. They are not totally embissiles.

Sent from my SM-N900 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Well if they do what is the problem. After all they are not embissiles

200 million bt from the sale of rice is nowhere near enough for the government to pay the farmers the 130 million bt they are owed.They need their cut.

jb1

Billion not Million Baht!

Are you sober :-)

Sent from my SM-N900 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Speaking of being sober what is an embissiles?

I know what imbecile's are.

[northernjohn]

And the government sells the stockpiled rice at a price undercutting the international rice prices, and 10 - 1 on, the dems would complain and file a court case for malfeasance or similar............

Typical idiotic post from fabio, change your bait if you want to get some real good bites, your bait is getting old and stale.

Well I asked him earlier and have not heard back from him on the same post

"simple question

Would they be right or wrong.

Yes or No."

Typical of him drop his load and run.

Yes you are biased. Can't blame you blood is thicker than water.

[Thai at Heart]

Can the other countries pay them to burn it?

[bangarang]

Very comforting to see how our rice is stored. Oh yeah just sit it out there on the dirt road outside. Mai Phen Raiiiiiiiiii

[speedtripler]

Can the other countries pay them to burn it?

rice doesnt burn well ,best donate it to africa instead of trying to burn it

if there are no other buyers im sure the chinese will end up taking it for

20%-50% of todays prices eventually

[peterquixote]

I am quite amazed by the posters photograph.

I appears as though they weigh the rice, then just dump it on open ground.

The photograph looked strange, especially the farmer's rice in truck.

Is it a metaphor for the most disgraceful and cynical of all Thai Governments.

Using Southerners rice to pay the North and waste their product5s.

[rametindallas]

Even if this can be done, how would such a policy be viewed by the World Trade Organization (never mind Vietnam and India)? Wouldn't it be classified as "dumping"? And if it was dumping, how would this affect the Thai government under international law?

If they are forced to sell it at the price they paid, they will never sell even one grain. I don't know how the WTO would rule on this but I think that as long as they do not sell below market price, they will be allowed. If they have to sell at the price they paid, Thailand and Thaksin's political career are both screwed.

[rametindallas]

Link to The Nation about rice dumping

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/business/US-fear-over-Thai-rice-dumping-is-groundless-30192701.html

"A senior source in the Commerce Ministry said Thailand's agricultural subsidy should not breach any WTO obligations. Thailand has the right to subsidise the agricultural sector by up to 7 per cent of the total value of farm products and commodities. The exact amount of subsidy would be very complicated depending on each crop's value, the source added."

Therein lies the rub. 7% of who knows how much rice or the value of other parts of the agricultural sector.

[rametindallas]

Govt told to urgently sell stockpiled rice

That's the way.

Just totally wreck the next 10 years of the industry to the point the paddy will be worth less than what it costs to grow.

Great ideas coming from so called clever people.

They release all 18 million tonnes at once and they may as well just shoot every rice family in Thailand.

"they may as well just shoot every rice family in Thailand."

The For Thaksin government has given the farmers a fatal dose of slow acting poison already, so maybe shooting them would be an act of mercy.

[Suriya4]

Even the Burmese are smuggling rice INTO thailand to pass off as thai rice and sell .. What a scandal

Cannot. Burmese rice have no visa to enter.

They also cannot pass DNA test.

[rametindallas]

How about a value added project? Convert the rice to beer and sell the beer. The best beers are usually made with rice. Or convert the rice to pork or chicken which can be frozen and released to market gradually. Something has to be done and fairly soon. Edible rice has a limited silo life.

Beer rice has to be best quality as any mold, mildew, or contaminants will affect the taste. For a fraction of what they are spending on this scheme, they could build (or tax subsidize someone to build) a gasohol plant and lower fuel imports at the same time. The animal feed suppliers will not like it if the government goes into competition with them; they paid the government a lot of money under the table to get their concessions. Too bad Thaksin privatized PTT or they could have them convert the rice to gasohol with no one complaining.

[edwinchester]

quote

Some farmers where I live have recently started using rice planting machines on just a few rai of paddy. If it weren't profitable they wouldn't be doing it.

I have actually asked some family farmers about that. They would hire in machines together with others for their rice fields, since each parts lands were to small to carry the machines. The problem is everybody needs it at the same time so the price goes up.

I asked them how much they spent a year/per harvest for machines from outside, fertilizer, outside hands working per day, electricity for water pumps etc.

The whole family (quite big) had no idea. Nobody ever made the math to see if rice was the right thing to grow. They had done it for generations, so they still did it and as they said, they ate their own rice as well and then had rice for all the dogs running around also.

When I did the math with the prices I got from them, they worked for free and probably lost money, and would be better off, growing something else with some cash flow like vegetables.

This happened in Ubon area and they only have one harvest a year, so other places the numbers might add up better.

My point however is more, they just do as they always did, but didn't do the math, so about what they do is being profitable or not, I am not so sure, that is clear to all of them.

When I tried to bring it up in a gentle and humble way, nobody really cared. This was 4 years ago and they still grow rice once every year.---End of quote

I have done the math for my family's farm. If they counted the many hrs they put in----They are losing money, but they don't count that in. It is what they eat, what they give to the extended family living in the city. Here it is one crop a year. Some have tried to grow something else but water and insects are a problem.

I live in Kanchanaburi where we have a fantastic irrigation system. Farmer who rents wifeys paddy gets three crops per year. Sometimes it is possible to get four crops. When they do this they are literally preparing the paddy the day after cutting.

As for the planting machines only a few are using them but talking to those that do they seem sure that it is cost effective.

[farang000999]

I don't understand why the gov never considered to just start giving the rice away to the poor and say "They have programs for the poor to eat in the US/Europe"...

[rametindallas]

Besides the idea to sell the rice before it rots, it would be a good idea to try to get back the money (or parts thereof),

which are lost only by corruption and nepotism.

In addition I guess between 200 - 300 Billion Baht corruption has cost.

I'm sure if they would trace the flow of money they could win more than 130 Billion Baht back,

but this government does not disclose the facts, the figures and the receivers.

Why?

I know many know the answer.

The money is there to pay the farmers, but it is now in dubious pockets!

Furthermore, why are the production costs increased so dramatically?

Simple,

many farmers have to rent their farmland.

The large land owners (they are elite too) have until now, every year increased the land rents, always to the threshold of pain.

Many many farmers sitting now in the debt trap.

The damage from this senseless scheme is so gigantic that Thailand has lost its competitiveness for years to come.

If all these landless farmers come with their pitchforks to Bangkok, then good night Thailand.

Any links to the large landowners, elite? Around these parts it's family farms. Where are the large land owners operating?

Many 'family farms' are on leased land. Leased from large land owners. You can't tell by looking at the land if it is leased, mortgaged, or owned free and clear by the people who farm it. I have it on good authority that Ford is one of the largest land holders in Thaland as the farmers put up land as collateral to buy tractors and such.

[rametindallas]

Govt told to urgently sell stockpiled rice

By Digital Content

BANGKOK, Feb 8 – The caretaker government was recommended to urgently release 18 million tonnes of rice from the state stockpiles to secure money to pay farmers.

Att Pisanwanit, Director of the Center for International Trade Studies (ITS) of the University of the Thai Chamber of Commerce (UTCC), said the government should accept losses by selling rice at US$350-400 per tonnes, lower than the price currently offered by Vietnam, to earn about Bt200 billion which should be more than sufficient to pay the current Bt130 billion overdue payments.

The government can spend the remaining Bt70 billion raised to help farmers in other agricultural products such as rubber and tapioca, he said.

Mr Att, dean of the UTCC Faculty of Economics, said that in the last decade since the Thaksin Shinawatra government in 2001, the Thai government has allocated a total of Bt1.5 trillion to help farmers and the Yingluck Shinawatra government has become the biggest spender at Bt700 billion, or more than half of budget expenses.

Production costs for Thai farmers between 2006 and 2012 have increased 60 per cent, from Bt4,000/rai to Bt9,000/rai but the yield per rai has not been higher.

Thailand’s yield per rai for rice production is only one-third of the Vietnamese, he said, adding that Thai farmers produce 450 kg of rice per rai while the Vietnam’s rice production is one tonne per rai.

Mr Att said the government should adjust its long-term assistance policy for farmers by refraining from rice trading intervention and offering appropriate assistance options for farmers. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2014-02-08

Sorry, but I think the government has bright enough brains to figure out this at their own. They are not totally embissiles.

Sent from my SM-N900 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Well, they sure have me fooled. 'Imbecile is as imbecile does' to paraphrase Forrest Gump.

[jalansanitwong]

Even if by some miracle they managed to off load the entire 18m stockpile (wasnt it over 30 million just recently?) the demand for Thai rice must decline over the next few years to absorb the 'dumped' rice.

Regardless of what happens the poorer rice farmers are stuffed. This should never of happened. Shameless corruption is destroying this country

and nobody cares.

[tetleythedog]

They hadn't thought of this?

What do you expect from this government ...........intelligence ??? I think not ! Wasn't there a question that someone allegedly pocketed 130 million or so a little while ago ?

I'm not a farmer so i don't really comprehend how the yield is so much down from the Vietnemese figure per rai. Isn't the land the same?

[IMA_FARANG]

Once again and maybe someone will actually listen this time?

The core of the problem is that the pledge price the Thai government uses is HIGHER than the actual fair market price that other neighboring countries (Vietnam is a good example) will sell the same quality rice for.

Therefore, the Thai government, because of it's inflated high pledge price can not simply put it's rice on the market without losing money by selling that rice at a fair market price.

The Rice scheme was initiated not to help the Rice farmers, but to provide a way of providing money to the middle-man Rice merchants and dealers (including the rice millers and the rice storage dealers) who were known to be mainly government supporters.

From the very beginning the Rice scheme was a Political program to buy the support of the middle-man merchnts and the rice mill and storage owners.

It was never economically justified because the pledge piece was always higher than the Rice fair market sales price.

The only way the Thai government can put their pledged rice on the market and sell or auction it off now is to

1. Sell it at a price that will lose money on the deal.
2. Or subsidize the price with incentives that will lower the effective price of Thai rice to make it competitive with other rice sellers. The government will also lose money doing that.
3. Or lower the official pledge price to a fair market price that is competitive with other rice sellers in Southeast Asia. This would be very unpopular with the Thai rice farmers and especially the middle-men. (Who actually determine the price that goes to the rice farmer, and which farmers rice "qualifies" for the government pledge price.

Only on certain high quality rice varieties where Thailand has a relative advantage can the Thai government hope to make a profit on selling rice from their stored stockpiles.

Unfortunately, due to their higher than normal pledge price for the other cheaper varieties of rice, rice growers have switched to growing cheaper rice, and therefore the amount of the higher quality premium rice varieties has been cut by the unrealistically high pledge price for the more common and cheaper to produce lower quality varieties of Thai rice.

It all comes from that politically motivated higher than fair market pledge price this government has used and is still using in the Rice scheme.

That higher than fair market government pledge price that the government pays is the fatal flaw that has crippled the Rice scheme from it's very start.

Edited February 9, 2014 by IMA_FARANG

[thcmm]

Wow, someone came up with an idea....

THa.jpg

That guy looks like he could afford to buy all the bad rice and wedge it in a moist dark place where the sun doen't shine.

[Mosha]

Govt told to urgently sell stockpiled rice

By Digital Content

BANGKOK, Feb 8 – The caretaker government was recommended to urgently release 18 million tonnes of rice from the state stockpiles to secure money to pay farmers.

Att Pisanwanit, Director of the Center for International Trade Studies (ITS) of the University of the Thai Chamber of Commerce (UTCC), said the government should accept losses by selling rice at US$350-400 per tonnes, lower than the price currently offered by Vietnam, to earn about Bt200 billion which should be more than sufficient to pay the current Bt130 billion overdue payments.

The government can spend the remaining Bt70 billion raised to help farmers in other agricultural products such as rubber and tapioca, he said.

Mr Att, dean of the UTCC Faculty of Economics, said that in the last decade since the Thaksin Shinawatra government in 2001, the Thai government has allocated a total of Bt1.5 trillion to help farmers and the Yingluck Shinawatra government has become the biggest spender at Bt700 billion, or more than half of budget expenses.

Production costs for Thai farmers between 2006 and 2012 have increased 60 per cent, from Bt4,000/rai to Bt9,000/rai but the yield per rai has not been higher.

Thailand’s yield per rai for rice production is only one-third of the Vietnamese, he said, adding that Thai farmers produce 450 kg of rice per rai while the Vietnam’s rice production is one tonne per rai.

Mr Att said the government should adjust its long-term assistance policy for farmers by refraining from rice trading intervention and offering appropriate assistance options for farmers. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2014-02-08

Sorry, but I think the government has bright enough brains to figure out this at their own. They are not totally embissiles.

Sent from my SM-N900 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

All the evidence contradicts your belief.

[Ricardo]

Just wonderin... what are our Brothers and Sisters in ASEAN doing to help Thailand in its time of need?

Dunno ... watching the on-going train-wreck in horror ?

Or laughing themselves silly ?

[slapout]

Once again and maybe someone will actually listen this time?

The core of the problem is that the pledge price the Thai government uses is HIGHER than the actual fair market price that other neighboring countries (Vietnam is a good example) will sell the same quality rice for.

Therefore, the Thai government, because of it's inflated high pledge price can not simply put it's rice on the market without losing money by selling that rice at a fair market price.

The Rice scheme was initiated not to help the Rice farmers, but to provide a way of providing money to the middle-man Rice merchants and dealers (including the rice millers and the rice storage dealers) who were known to be mainly government supporters.

From the very beginning the Rice scheme was a Political program to buy the support of the middle-man merchnts and the rice mill and storage owners.

It was never economically justified because the pledge piece was always higher than the Rice fair market sales price.

The only way the Thai government can put their pledged rice on the market and sell or auction it off now is to

1. Sell it at a price that will lose money on the deal.
2. Or subsidize the price with incentives that will lower the effective price of Thai rice to make it competitive with other rice sellers. The government will also lose money doing that.
3. Or lower the official pledge price to a fair market price that is competitive with other rice sellers in Southeast Asia. This would be very unpopular with the Thai rice farmers and especially the middle-men. (Who actually determine the price that goes to the rice farmer, and which farmers rice "qualifies" for the government pledge price.

Only on certain high quality rice varieties where Thailand has a relative advantage can the Thai government hope to make a profit on selling rice from their stored stockpiles.

Unfortunately, due to their higher than normal pledge price for the other cheaper varieties of rice, rice growers have switched to growing cheaper rice, and therefore the amount of the higher quality premium rice varieties has been cut by the unrealistically high pledge price for the more common and cheaper to produce lower quality varieties of Thai rice.

It all comes from that politically motivated higher than fair market pledge price this government has used and is still using in the Rice scheme.

That higher than fair market government pledge price that the government pays is the fatal flaw that has crippled the Rice scheme from it's very start.

You have stated the first (core) problem quite wee, but now the Thai government cannot dump on the world market (dump equal less than market price) so they have to sell on the Thai market. Guess who gets hit with the digging deeper to pay for the rice they consume on a regular basis?

[belg]

all the experts in the governement, and none tought of this idea before

but that is like the 2007 financial crisis, a world full of financial experts and none saw that one comming either?