Brainwashed

[HeavyDrinker]

There are some very unhelpful replies here. This has little to do with psychiatric problems, naivete, nor religion other than this poor lady being manipulated by a very skilled con man who is nicely playing on all her in grained beliefs. Sadly it is not an uncommon occurrence. She is probably seen as a viable target because of her involvement with a rich foreigner. The OP could do everyone a huge favour if he could play a role in removing this villain from society. This manner of thing is not rare. When we lived in Chanthaburi some bloke tried conning our maid along similar lines to the extent that she was losing her "Thainess" by working for a foreigner. It almost worked until I came home early one day to catch the devil in action and gave him the bum's rush aided by the local Moto boys.

To the OP, I'd say the best thing you can do for your missus is to continue keeping a tight rein on her assets and as to who she has contact with and for the Love of God, go to the authorities and get this scumball off the streets...

[Baerboxer]

Neither naivete nor superstitiousness are psychiatric problems.

And superstitiousness is a deeply ingrained part of Thai culture, they are raised with it. Even highly educated and otherwise rational people will seek a supernatural explanation or approach to things as the first resort. This is just something you have to accept as part of the culture.

There are things westerners do that Thais would consider an indication of insanity, too.

Obviously, need to take steps to ensure your wife cannot independently spend or commit large amounts of money. Even after she realizes she has been had (if she does -- she may come up with some alternate explanation...insufficient faith, etc), she will still fall for scams i nthe future. Soem people are just like this.

Certainly previous generations in Europe were far more superstitious. My parents and grandparents were far more superstitious than my peers and children. But they never had the chance of higher education and lived in what was still highly hierarchical societies. These ingredients would make them seem much more naieve and superstitious than us, and the same conditions still exist in Thailand.

We had a run of bad luck, nothing serious some minor illness in the family, couple of small bumps on the car etc. My wife insisted this was because we needed a house ceremony and arranged one with the local temple. She was much happier afterwards. Several of our neighbours had ceremonies around the same time.

It's notable that most people who post with issues regarding their Thai wife always seem to marry educated ladies from rich backgrounds. Maybe that's part of the syndrome, whatever the syndrome really is.

[slipperylobster]

She owes me 1 million from the last life....as well!

[budoyjonjon]

In my country they call these people budol budol where they'll approach you and talk to you calmly then the next thing you know your at home not knowing you withdrew a large amount of money . But your situation is on a different level but still the same basics, hypnosis .

[Johnnie99]

How often do we here that a foreigner has married an 'oh so rich' Thai family?

And yet those 'rich' people's attitudes, their education and their sensibilities are at odds with the evidence.

We all know that if they are so rich, they would get - as they do - an education either at a Thai International School (God help them) or outside Thailand.

This family clearly has deep psychological troubles - including the ability (call it what you will) to fool a foreigner that the family lost 6 million baht somehow.

Bah humbug.

Edited February 11, 2014 by Johnnie99

[saroq]

Is there any doctor that you can take any religious person to to cure them? Nope. They've already bought into the delusion.

[Adeeos]

If he's STILL picking up when, "she" calls,,,, is it possible to convince her to get him to meet her?,,,,, if so,,, get a BIB,, off duty,, (if her parents are wealthy, I'm SURE they know several),, to, "happen" to be there at the meeting.... NAB the guy,,,, It's probably,, not the FIRST,,, or LAST time he's pulled this, The courts,, esp in the US,, consider this type of, THEFT... "White collar" crime,,, as in ponsie scemes,,,, But how many people have after realizing their mistake,,,, been financially wiped out,, have commited suicide?,,,, other than that,,, sounds like you're doing all you can,,,,,

Edited February 11, 2014 by Adeeos

[Tywais]

Inflammatory post removed.

[falangadang]

I call her brainwashed because she refuses to believe she has been conned. She doesn't want to go to the police.

I kinda forced her to go to the police and she's going with her father right now, against her own will.

She believes she did something very good - related to her last life with that guy.

It's like she is in sect.

This guy made her so crazy that I am afraid she might give even more money (and maybe land) to him, that's why I (and her parents) are trying to prevent that.

We are married for 13 years, never had any problem, never lost any money to religion or superstition, fortune tellers and so on.

I asked her parents for advice. Her parents are rich. They think 200K is just a bit of money. They think it's a small problem and suggest to just leave it.

Her father ever has been conned for 6 million, but that case was not related to strange beliefs.

Her parents also understand she has been brainwashed and conned, they can't bring her to reason either.

She refuses to go to a psychiatrist, she says she's not mad.

I see this quite simply;

Your wife was taken in by a very sharp confidence trickster who primed her for this fall/hit with every structured meeting and conversation with her. He evidently understood the power of superstitious beliefs and played on that.

Her insistence that she has not been conned is simply denial and an unwillingness to lose face.

This is where you need to be the man and reprimand her severely for being so stupid and gullible and throwing away the family fortunes. If it causes argument and hostiility between you then thats just the way it has to be. Let her know you are TOTALLY pi$$ed about this and point out that she has been "had" for dinner by a professional!

A couple of years ago we were selling our home. We'd been trying for over a year to get a reasonable price of 3.8m but no offers and no interest. Then suddenly, my wife excitedly tells me she has sold the house for full asking price to a guy introduced by a friend.

I was kept in the dark about the details as she knew I was suspicious and she didn't want my negativity to "spook" the deal.

Long story short,.. this guy (the generous foreign buyer) was a Nigerian scammer she met on Facebook who posed as an English engineer.

She had to come to me as things started to conclude and part of the deal was that the "papers" for the transaction were to be delivered by a private courier as the guy didnt trust the banks. Of course I knew what was up and I told my wife that she had been conned by this "nice" English guy who she had never met and never spoken to.

At this point she was still insistant that it was a "done deal" and that I was being "negative",.. so I told her to get the guy on the phone under the guise of discussing the detail. Well,.. she gets this guy "Matt" on the phone on speakerphone and he has the thickest African accent ever! I was born and raised in UK and can pick accents from all over the UK with some accuracy,.. and this guy was definatley not English. When I prompted her to ask him about his birthplace (London) and about the weather in London he made huge errors on each.

So the bottom line is that through this process I proved conclusively that this was a set up,... but even so, for about 2 or 3 days later she couldn't accept that this was a set up and that I must be wrong.

That was the point when I went off my nut ranting and raving and calling her a complete idiot and telling her off for placing the family's finances in jepoardy. I had to go over all the details and deconstructed the entire "conversation" for her by unravelling everything that had occured on Facebook. Finally after about 2 days she broke down crying and said how she was so sorry for being so foolish and that she finally knew that this guy was a crook.

The point is that it wasn't easy to make her see what she had fallen victim to and how costly it could have been.

At least we didnt lose a cent but in your case losing 200K is just terrible. For that reason alone you need to make her see sense and of course make sure she doesn't have access to huge wads of money as she did or that will just provide opportunity for similar occurances in the future.

If I were you I would contact the fraud division of the Royal Thai Police and get them involved!

[Guest]

While you have his bank account number, address, name and phone number - do a search with google both English and Thai.

There might be some others who have been scammed before. If you find something, it might be the needed information to convince your wife to talk to the police.

You can also write to a forum (which allows you to put the details) or create an website (free with google), where you write the known details. Maybe someone will contact you later on.

[CaptHaddock]

Boy is there some terrible advice on this thread, even by the somewhat "relaxed" standard of TV.

[falangadang]

I know lots of people in America who give 10 percent of all of their income to cults that promises them eternal life in a place they call "heaven" if they follow the rules of this entity they call "god". Every moment of their lives is devoted to making this "god" happy and following the rules of their cult, but still he does horrible things to them and their friends.

They also believe that the earth was created a few thousand years ago despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

They think that anyone that doesn't agree with them will burn in horrible pain for eternity in this place they call "hell". This punishment is decided upon by their "loving god".

One of their cult members was recently president of the USA and another was defeated by Obama just a short time ago so it's a pretty widespread psychosis.

It's not just America,.. its widespread, and whilst I don't subcribe to you atheistic beliefs I can say with some authority that a vast majority of the mainstream Christian churches to this day promote the "tithe" and insist upon it as a prerequisite to church membership and yes they even link it to salvation and heavenly glories. This is particulalry relevant in the cult you refer to in making the Romney reference.

This is a false and erroneous practice and nothing more than a ruse and manipulation to extract money from "believers". The sad part is that if these believers truly understood scripture and history they would see that the tithe is not only unecessary but is totally against the principles of the promises made in the New Testament (New Covenant).

Not that I'm going to get into religous discussion but I just couldn't let your broad comment and opinion about "psychosis" go unchecked without at least providing some perspective. Some of your points were directed at the said "cult" but others spilled over into the broader Christian perspective which is not really justifiable despite your apparent enthusiasm for atheism!

Not all TV members are atheists and not all are religious nuts but please at least have some respect for the beliefs and education of others before jumping on your unbeliver's soapbox and labeling us all as "psychotic"

[tubby johnson]

During a class discussion about 7 years ago, a female student of mine at university was displaying her usual contentious attitude, trying to boss every debate. When I intervened, she said that she knew that in her past life we had been in a relationship together. She had been unfaithful to me, and now in this life she had to repay her debt to me. To clear her past sins, so to speak.

"Oh, that's interesting. Thank you," was all I could reply. The rest of the class listened in stunned silence.

She wasn't attractive at all, quite obnoxious in her attitude, and now she was intimating that a relationship would help her clear her bad karma. So I had been a cuckold in my past life. Yes, Cleopatra did cheat on me with Marc Anthony (FYI, I was Julius Caesar ... and Charlemagne, Queen Victoria and Jesus' donkey in previous incarnations).

Anyhow, I tried my best to ignore her after class. A week later, it was my girlfriend's birthday and after my last evening class I was about to hop in a taxi when she appeared out of nowhere and asked, "Where you go, teacher?" ... "Off to the shopping mall to buy a birthday cake for my girlfriend."

She ignored what I had said and jumped into the taxi: "I go with you."

So on our ten-minute trip all I did was talk about my girlfriend and how wonderful she was, hoping she'd get the hint. Once we'd arrived she followed me to the bakery where I bought a nice cake, ignored her none-too-subtle advances and said, "Adios!"

In the ensuing days and months, she didn't cause me any trouble. I suppose it finally dawned on her that I wasn't remotely interested in her. One day, I ran into her outside the university. She introduced me to her new boyfriend, an Italian guy from Venice. A friendly guy, probably still unaware that he'd hooked up with a bit of a tool.

I don't know if there's a moral to this story. Probably that it's best not to associate with troublemakers, religious simpletons or sociopaths. Life's too short and wonderful for that.

[Emster23]

"The school of life has a high tuition, but some fools will learn in no other."

-Ben Franklin

[slipperylobster]

yeah right, so what is she doing talking to some vagrant outside her workplace for hours,

knock knock on the door.

Peter has a good point. Just as the farang who opened a restaurant in Chiang Mai, only to have a policeman setup Headquarters there, while the farang was away. I had a situation where this was tried, in a fashion. One young man kept coming to my home trying to talk to my thai gal about buying my motorcycle. He had not money of course. It was a way of gaining her confidence for a big cash in later. I sicked my dog on him and chased him away. My gal confirmed by worries about the man later. There are scams galore, whenever the wife/gal of a farang lets her guard down.

The man should have never spent hours chatting with your gal in the first place.

Confidence game... No doubt about it. Nothing to do with Buddha.....they kind of know that.

[slipperylobster]

"The school of life has a high tuition, but some fools will learn in no other."

-Ben Franklin

And 90% spend a lifetime as a sophmore in it.....

[kriswillems]

How often do we here that a foreigner has married an 'oh so rich' Thai family?

And yet those 'rich' people's attitudes, their education and their sensibilities are at odds with the evidence.

We all know that if they are so rich, they would get - as they do - an education either at a Thai International School (God help them) or outside Thailand.

This family clearly has deep psychological troubles - including the ability (call it what you will) to fool a foreigner that the family lost 6 million baht somehow.

Bah humbug.

Sorry, your guesses are completely wrong.

I have the evidence on paper that they were cheated for 6 million in the past. I can read Thai. It's not much money for them, but it show they might be sensitive for this kind of things.

I know how a land-owners-certificate looks like, and they a huge set of them (all land located in expensive industrial area, not farming land).

They own an apartment building of 67 rooms, and I've access to the full bookkeeping (and can read it in Thai and understand the Thai bookkeeping rules and documents).

My wife did study a while in Cambridge, although not at university level, and I've evidence of it.

Edited February 11, 2014 by kriswillems

[thailampang2012]

You are right in your worries. Long time ago in Los Angeles, and just leaving an ATM machine, an older stranger approach me telling me about his troubles, and asking me for $200...That amount of money was BIG for me at that time of my life....but...I gave the money.

Minutes later, thinking about, I believed that I was hypnotized...Cannot be another explanation....

[kriswillems]

We've the name and address of the conman and we know he has lived there and maybe is still living there.

The police doesn't do anything besides making a report. They didn't even wanted to write that address in the report.

At that moment my wife as also not very cooperative because she was still very much believing in the guy.

They say it's a financial conflict between 2 persons, and they can't do anything.

Also they say that the money transfer slip is not enough evidence to backup the whole story.

The problem is a bit that being a conman/fortune teller is not really illegal in Thailand. It's regarded as a job.

The money transfer could as well be seen as a payment for delivered services.

I consider the 200K as lost. It was her money, but we always agreed we would tell each other beforehand if we would spend more than 20K of our money. Taking into account this agreement, I call my and her money always "our" money.

Edited February 11, 2014 by kriswillems

[OxfordWill]

Where was Mum, Sis, Dad, Bro, Husband etc while this elaborate con was taking place?

Thais stick together in units and protect one another with advice and alternative perspectives.

Single ladies going it alone without thefamily or friends inevitably get serious trouble.

Edited February 11, 2014 by OxfordWill

[kriswillems]

Where was Mum, Sis, Dad, Bro, Husband etc while this elaborate con was taking place?

Thais stick together in units and protect one another with advice and alternative perspectives.

Single ladies going it alone without thefamily or friends inevitably get serious trouble.

Her mother has a business 10 meters away from her shop and this business is very successful, she's working all the time. She saw this guy and even warned my wife.

The only thing her mother says about the whole story is: "I've told you so, you'll see what you get".

The mother of my wife is a very hard business woman - she's ice-cold. I admire her for her business attitude.

I can't go to sit with my wife in the shop because I also have things to do and I don't have a working permit for helping her.

Everything happened in less than 3 weeks.

Edited February 11, 2014 by kriswillems

[sonar6ca]

You just described the mind of the average Thai.

Speak for yourself, we have enough super smart FARANGS in this country, if the average Thai is not to your liking, go back to where you came from, I am sure there everyone is a Nobel prize candidate.

[pbeukelm]

This is common among westerners as well. Empty promisses by conmen that require short term sacrifies. People give them 10% of their income. Used to be called religion, but the modern version is politics. Based on the superstition that the conmen operates in the name of a higher power, usually the common good. He does not just require your money, but also your approval to take your neighborś money and take on a debt to be paid off by your children.

People stil believe their conmen long after it is obvious they have been conned. It is called a conn gresman these days. Prisoners in Stalinś gulag camps were till writing Stalin letters supposing he could not possibly be behind their imprisonment.

Conned people are still cheering on Obama as he reigns by executive orders and bypasses congress. Michelle tweets pictures of their dogs dining from conned peopleś (taxpayer) paid china like Mary Antoinette.

But the conmen is still defended, because it would be too painfull to face the fact that they are fooled.

I would suspect te parents as well of not having them all together, since it is taught behavior, I think the basic fear why conned people do not face the reality,is because it would require facing the reality that their parents and care givers when they were young and vulnerable, were also under the influence of conmen. It feels better to accept the con as truth than to face the painfull reality. That is also why abused children often grow up to be abusers, since it is less painfull to call abuse of their care givers good and replicate it than too face that they were in control of <deleted> and they should not replicate it.

[pbeukelm]

It is also called Stockholm Syndrome, the effect that you start to love your kidnapper/extorter/connmen, since it would be dangerous to call him out for what he is. Calling someone's BS *IS* in fact often dangerous and hugging him and keeping him in his crazy believe, is often safer than calling him out and saying the truth.

Still I'd say tha those extra scared of calling a conmen a conmen, had crazy parents as well. That is were the real fear comes from, childhood trauma.

[sirchai]

I'me very sorry to hear that, but you shouldn't let her make such decisions. Maybe just to have some pocket money. Yeeaah, a strange world, we're living in. Why does nothing surprise me anymore?-

[sz1a]

I borke up with my ex because she was too naive. I prefer to be with someone I don't have to constantly worry will be abducted or scammed. Then I learned women are great actors.

[louse1953]

You just described the mind of the average Thai.

Maybe your friends.

[kennypowers]

I would advise you to go to good psychiatrist with your wife. Because as far as I can see it could be chronic (hidden) OCD, or starting psychosis or even more. But I have no rights to make a diagnosis here.

I would suggest you to go to BNH hospital, there are some very good psychiatrists.

I completely agree. I know of two people who've had episodes of psychosis in thailand and the circumstances sound quite similar. One of these people gave all his belongings away, money, phone, etc in the street to people he didn't know. Both went from completely rational and sane to acting completely irrationally and out of character in a matter of days. Definitely see a psychiatrist as soon as possible.

[asiamint]

We've the name and address of the conman and we know he has lived there and maybe is still living there.

The police doesn't do anything besides making a report. They didn't even wanted to write that address in the report.

At that moment my wife as also not very cooperative because she was still very much believing in the guy.

They say it's a financial conflict between 2 persons, and they can't do anything.

Also they say that the money transfer slip is not enough evidence to backup the whole story.

The problem is a bit that being a conman/fortune teller is not really illegal in Thailand. It's regarded as a job.

The money transfer could as well be seen as a payment for delivered services.

I consider the 200K as lost. It was her money, but we always agreed we would tell each other beforehand if we would spend more than 20K of our money. Taking into account this agreement, I call my and her money always "our" money.

If your genuine i will help get your money back, I can pass you on the number of some very reliable debt collectors, they will want around 35% because the debt is so small. You don't have to pay anything upfront , they will take their cut from the money they collect.

But I must be convinced your telling the truth, i'm not going to waste their time, i will ask tough questions and i want the truth

This Is Thailand and their methods work, over 15 years experience of dealing with these guys, they are very smart and have never failed me. They know the court system, they know how to seize assets and they also know many other games as well. Give this guy a nightmare he will never forget

pm me

[Sam Gold]

You just described the mind of the average Thai.

No, the average Thai would not part that easily with such a large amount, and for most of them when money is involved religious principles conveniently go out the window. Your average Thai would be feeling very frustrated and angry after it became obvious it was a scam.

This is not a common psychological profile and the guy who did this probably spent quite a long time looking for the right victim before preying on her.

Edited February 11, 2014 by Sam Gold