planning to start a small restaurant

[holeyman1]

i have a marriage visa & am planning to start up a small restaurant (modest 10 tables max)

i understand i cannot help out in the restaurant but is there any way i can go around it?

simply helping cleaning the tables and/or serving the food.

have been married a tad over 10 years, trust is omni-present. so kindly refrain from negative

comments like "don't do it, etc"

have a few answers from people already doing business here :

wasn't aware you had to pay to hang your own signboard?

if i so, what is it for & how much?

do i need to pay thugs?

if so, how much

do i need to pay police?

if so, how much?

the 3 questions above MIGHT be exclusively for pubs & go-go bars, hence the

above questions.

any help rendered is greatly appreciated

Edited February 10, 2014 by holeyman1

[meatboy]

what I know from what happened to a friend of mine you cant do anything,BUT keep your eye on the stock and the profit

as family and friends eat FREE,otherwise there wont be a profit.

and before you say it unless your wife is prepared to pay for them she will loose face.

Edited February 10, 2014 by meatboy

[edwinchester]

None of our friends who have small local restaurants pay the sign tax although I know it exists.

None pay protection money to local thugs or police but then we live very far from anything remotely touristy.

As for family and friends eating free or wifey loses face, absolute BS. It's a business and customers pay simple as that unless the owner is a doormat.

[Jip99]

Where are you based ?

That may be a factor in some of the costs.

You may well be invited to have a 'red box'. That would involve paying the police 500 Baht + pm. Avoid getting involved with the police at all. Let your wife handle this (and almost all other things).

Signs are charged by the square centimetre. All Thai wording is cheaper than a Thai/Farang mix and just Farang wording is most expensive. Get you wife to speak to the Amphur.

Your wife should know the answer to all these questions as well as what days can't we sell alcohol..

[meatboy]

None of our friends who have small local restaurants pay the sign tax although I know it exists.

None pay protection money to local thugs or police but then we live very far from anything remotely touristy.

As for family and friends eating free or wifey loses face, absolute BS. It's a business and customers pay simple as that unless the owner is a doormat.

I bet you don't get any visits from your inlaws if you make them pay for food and drink.

[edwinchester]

None of our friends who have small local restaurants pay the sign tax although I know it exists.

None pay protection money to local thugs or police but then we live very far from anything remotely touristy.

As for family and friends eating free or wifey loses face, absolute BS. It's a business and customers pay simple as that unless the owner is a doormat.

I bet you don't get any visits from your inlaws if you make them pay for food and drink.

I don't operate a restaurant and guests, inlaws or otherwise, eat free of charge at our house.

When we eat at the nearby restaurant that is owned by one of my wifes family we always pay.

Edited February 10, 2014 by edwinchester

[thailiketoo]

If I owned a restaurant in Thailand I would never even visit the place. Competition can report you on a whim.

Legally you can teach people how to do things but I would not bet on it.

[Asiantravel]

Where are you based ?

That may be a factor in some of the costs.

You may well be invited to have a 'red box'. That would involve paying the police 500 Baht + pm. Avoid getting involved with the police at all. Let your wife handle this (and almost all other things).

Signs are charged by the square centimetre. All Thai wording is cheaper than a Thai/Farang mix and just Farang wording is most expensive. Get you wife to speak to the Amphur.

Your wife should know the answer to all these questions as well as what days can't we sell alcohol..

" You may well be invited to have a 'red box' "

is that what those red boxes are for?

I used to live opposite a consulate and I watched as every now and again 2 policeman on a motorbike would pull into the driveway and one would get off and put his hand inside the red box and collect a small envelope. I often used to wonder what that was, and I just assumed it was some kind of neighbourhood watch reporting or something like that.

But why would a consulate need to pay tea money?

[fifthcolumn]

My MiL and SiL borlth cook for a living. It's very hard worknand will make your wife old before her days. Some yrs back, wife and I toyed with idea of going back to US. She was adamant about not cooking in a restaurant which was fine with me.

Had a regular girl msny yrs ago, her sis had resty in Prachuap. Went under.

Its tons of hard work, great food and reasonable prices. Thai will pay up for good food.

My favorite saying I've made up about Thailand:

Thailand, a place where even the poor are food snobs.

[holeyman1]

thanks for the replies guys,

wife will not cook, simply supervise as she will be hiring 1-2 "chefs" and 3 wait-staff

which should suffice for 10 tables.

will avoid at all cost, the BiB & local thugs if any.

ok the signage tax has been taken care of, now for the liquor or in this case, BEER

should she be getting a liquor license (only be selling beer to patrons, with a bit of mark up of cos NO ciggies)

i would be surprised if all restauranteurs have liquor license...

forgive the snide remark, had to put it out there....

keep the replies coming!

PS : am in nonthaburi

[thrilled]

Probably as far as working or not working probably depends on the area that your at.Bangkok probably not.Maybe up north near Nong Khai maybe not A big problem.As far as actually giving ya any tips about the restaurant.If ya serve farang food,try to advertise it.I will come by for a taste,good luck.

[happynthailand]

Make sure that you get all the licence's that are needed

if you think you might need a licence for some thing get it

they come around once a year to check on licences or if a shop in your area turns you in for selling something with out a licence

and they will turn you in

wife runs a shop and sells hot food

just remember don't get cheep on the food,thai's know when you skimp on food, you'll lose a lot of people that way,good food gets around by word of mouth,thai's love to talk about good food

Edited February 10, 2014 by happynthailand

[Jip99]

Probably as far as working or not working probably depends on the area that your at.Bangkok probably not.Maybe up north near Nong Khai maybe not A big problem.As far as actually giving ya any tips about the restaurant.If ya serve farang food,try to advertise it.I will come by for a taste,good luck.

The clue was in post #10 when he said "Nonthaburi"

Not renowned as a hotbed for 'grasses'.

Yes, get a liquor licence - why would you NOT? You are only inviting trouble. Shouldn't cost more than 1,100 Baht. A ciggie licence is 20 Baht ! Don't get puritanical about smoking - your customers (especially Thais) will expect to smoke - and buy ciggies.

Best to play it straight 100% whenever a Farang is on the scene.

Would like to see your business plan.

I (or rather the wife) had a restaurant business for 3 years.

[JeremyBowskill]

Had a Rest. for 3-4 years right at the start of my stay. The questions you have about local idiots and police (assuming you separate the two that is) will largely depend on who you rent the building from (assuming you don't own it). If you rent from a local Thai, with several properties and a bit of clout, you will find you are less likely to get unwanted hassle. However, if you own it yourself or rent from someone less well known, these issues may come into play. Best to avoid police at all costs, once you start down the road of paying anything it will only get worse.

Get all licences, keep the correct hours and observe all religious days (not serving beer out of coffee cups and being a smartarse) and all should be fine.

Edited February 10, 2014 by JeremyBowskill

[jaapfries]

If I owned a restaurant in Thailand I would never even visit the place. Competition can report you on a whim.

Legally you can teach people how to do things but I would not bet on it.

I strongly suggest you open a 2 mil. Bt. Ltd. Co - and since you're legally married to a Thai, you need only 2 Thais to support your work-permit. That way, you can do anything in that restaurant and you will be totally safe from 'jealous' people around you.

Signs: can be in English, s long as you put the name of your place (in very small letters and in Thai') somewhere on the same sign, That way you only pay the minimum rate (if they ever come by to charge you at all !).

If you're going to sell any tye of alcoholic beverage (and that's where the money is !) make sure that you obtain the proper license (very cheap !) - same goes for any tobacco products.

NEVER play music from CD's in your place, because that can cost you a Bt. 20K fine ! - Better to have some cable-music going.

Last but not least: make sure your bathroom facillities are sparkling clean, with proper soap and material towel (replace a number of times per day !) - believe it or not, that's why people keep coming back too !

[sniffdog]

Most important thing: without a work permit you can of course be in your restaurant. But most likely you'll attract attention from the police and they will track every movement. Even you do the slightest of work (serve a plate, wash dishes) they will hold up the law against you.

simply supervise as she will be hiring 1-2 "chefs" and 3 wait-staff

which should suffice for 10 tables.

Seems overkill to me. Think about the overhead. You'll be unlikely to make a profit unless you serve expensive high margin food.

Edited February 11, 2014 by sniffdog

[Schuimpge]

thanks for the replies guys,

ok the signage tax has been taken care of

As for the signage tax. Not 100% sure for Restaurants, but for my company I had a nice big 4x1.5sqmt signboard.

Then the tax bill for that came in...huge bill, based on the size of the board.

Turns out, if you look at all those signboards at companies, they have nice big logos, company names, etc. many times its like 10-20 Square Meters. Yet, they pay very little for those boards... How come?

There's always a smaller Thai language company name and address somewhere in the corner.

The tax will be based on the size of that smaller Thai language name if it is clear and present on that board.

So just to save you money, have a look into that.

Cheers,

Luc

[Rorri]

meatboy, on 10 Feb 2014 - 16:26, said:

edwinchester, on 10 Feb 2014 - 15:44, said:

None of our friends who have small local restaurants pay the sign tax although I know it exists.

None pay protection money to local thugs or police but then we live very far from anything remotely touristy.

As for family and friends eating free or wifey loses face, absolute BS. It's a business and customers pay simple as that unless the owner is a doormat.

I bet you don't get any visits from your inlaws if you make them pay for food and drink.

And is that a bad thing....

[meatboy]

why I am telling the op to be on his guard with family and their friends not paying was because when I left Thailand with the wife in 1989 I had a good mate who had a few bob,very nice wife and was more than happy,then he decided to move to his wife's village and opened up a restaurant and bar to keep her occupied.well we all know that a daughter would never tell their parents you cant have that unless you pay.the poor bloke went through all he had.this story is not the only one I know of.

so as its been suggested you need to be involved and not put your wife in a situation that would cost her family to loose face.

just think when we all used to visit our inlaws,few presies but always a bottle of black or red label for dad who would invite his mates to come and help him to drink it and once its gone they go aswell.only to come back when there's more.

[leosuntime]

why I am telling the op to be on his guard with family and their friends not paying was because when I left Thailand with the wife in 1989 I had a good mate who had a few bob,very nice wife and was more than happy,then he decided to move to his wife's village and opened up a restaurant and bar to keep her occupied.well we all know that a daughter would never tell their parents you cant have that unless you pay.the poor bloke went through all he had.this story is not the only one I know of.

so as its been suggested you need to be involved and not put your wife in a situation that would cost her family to loose face.

just think when we all used to visit our inlaws,few presies but always a bottle of black or red label for dad who would invite his mates to come and help him to drink it and once its gone they go aswell.only to come back when there's more.

he had a few bob and opened a bar and restaurant JUST to keep her OCCUPIED?

which ended up being all his bob

who would risk All Their bob to keep a wife occupied

sounds like story heard through chinese whispers

[holeyman1]

Cool down guys...!

Appreciate all the help, sincerely!

Am doing the signage now.

Will consult the tax bill when it comes, am ready for a shocker no doubt. Fingers crossed.

Confirmed 2 cooks and 3 wait-staff. that should suffice since I anticipate free-loaders. Wait-staff allocated to specific tables. Tips their own, dependent on customers.

Will also get the required licenses (going down the straight route)

Thank again for all the heads-up

Cheers

somtam palah

[Suradit69]

Where are you based ?

That may be a factor in some of the costs.

You may well be invited to have a 'red box'. That would involve paying the police 500 Baht + pm. Avoid getting involved with the police at all. Let your wife handle this (and almost all other things).

Signs are charged by the square centimetre. All Thai wording is cheaper than a Thai/Farang mix and just Farang wording is most expensive. Get you wife to speak to the Amphur.

Your wife should know the answer to all these questions as well as what days can't we sell alcohol..

" You may well be invited to have a 'red box' "

is that what those red boxes are for?

I used to live opposite a consulate and I watched as every now and again 2 policeman on a motorbike would pull into the driveway and one would get off and put his hand inside the red box and collect a small envelope. I often used to wonder what that was, and I just assumed it was some kind of neighbourhood watch reporting or something like that.

But why would a consulate need to pay tea money?

"But why would a consulate need to pay tea money?"

I suppose it depends on how you define the payment and the service. When I was young in the US the police or fire men in our community would come around each year selling tickets to a policemen's ball or firemen's dance. Everyone with any sense bought the tickets and most of them didn't attend the dance. Or else they would sell raffle tickets ... whatever. If you didn't buy whatever they were selling, it was always possible the police or firemen would take some wrong turns and get lost responding to an emergency call at your address.

In the US and UK there are various charities that benefit the police and their families. Some businesses and individuals find it useful to make very visible contributions for reasons best known to themselves.

Some shops here, especially gold shops, hire police to sit in the shop during business hours. And in western countries, in some instances off-duty police or retired police are hired to beef-up or supervise security.

Farangs calling it tea money in Thailand seem blind to the "acts of charity" or "good business policies" that are common back in farang utopia ... and of course there is no shortage of actual police bribery in the more "developed" countries as Rupert Murdoch can assure you.

This description sounds more benign than the pukka sahib's use of the term "tea money."

The basic idea behind the boxes is this (and please please jump in if you know more): When a Thai (or community of Thais) feel the extra need to protect their homes or businesses beyond the traditional sleepy security guards, they make an agreement for the local police to come by every so often. At some point in this process a red box is attached to the side of the building in question. And for as many times as they’ve been paid, the local police stop by, open the box, sign a piece of paper to note they’ve been, and then close the box up again.

So all over Thailand (?) police are riding around in tandem, opening red boxes, signing white pieces of paper, and putting them back in the boxes. And getting paid for the service

Read more: http://womenlearnthai.com/index.php/thailands-mysterious-red-boxes/#ixzz2syrHaeH4

[rotary]

A different thought line here........If this makes money will it make enough money to be worth the hassle? I have no idea what amount of profit you might make but would B10K a month profit be worth the hassle and liability?

[meatboy]

why I am telling the op to be on his guard with family and their friends not paying was because when I left Thailand with the wife in 1989 I had a good mate who had a few bob,very nice wife and was more than happy,then he decided to move to his wife's village and opened up a restaurant and bar to keep her occupied.well we all know that a daughter would never tell their parents you cant have that unless you pay.the poor bloke went through all he had.this story is not the only one I know of.

so as its been suggested you need to be involved and not put your wife in a situation that would cost her family to loose face.

just think when we all used to visit our inlaws,few presies but always a bottle of black or red label for dad who would invite his mates to come and help him to drink it and once its gone they go aswell.only to come back when there's more.

he had a few bob and opened a bar and restaurant JUST to keep her OCCUPIED?

which ended up being all his bob

who would risk All Their bob to keep a wife occupied

sounds like story heard through chinese whispers

30yrs I have been hearing these whispers,and he wasn't called bob.

[JLCrab]

Speaking of Nonthaburi, how's this guy been doing? Never been there but one of these times to BKK might make a detour:

http://bbqsandwichking.com/home.html

[leosuntime]

why I am telling the op to be on his guard with family and their friends not paying was because when I left Thailand with the wife in 1989 I had a good mate who had a few bob,very nice wife and was more than happy,then he decided to move to his wife's village and opened up a restaurant and bar to keep her occupied.well we all know that a daughter would never tell their parents you cant have that unless you pay.the poor bloke went through all he had.this story is not the only one I know of.

so as its been suggested you need to be involved and not put your wife in a situation that would cost her family to loose face.

just think when we all used to visit our inlaws,few presies but always a bottle of black or red label for dad who would invite his mates to come and help him to drink it and once its gone they go aswell.only to come back when there's more.

he had a few bob and opened a bar and restaurant JUST to keep her OCCUPIED?

which ended up being all his bob

who would risk All Their bob to keep a wife occupied

sounds like story heard through chinese whispers

30yrs I have been hearing these whispers,and he wasn't called bob.

old but still so arrogant!

we are clearly talking about your friends story, not the 30 years worth of other stories not mentioned here

we both know that you were using 'bob' to mean money as was I in my reply

normally I have some patient or add some jest to my posts on other forums, but old expats here just fill me with loathing, childish school yard bullies thats kind of the mentality they have here

[chainarong]

I and the family have had two and quiet frankly I will have no more , restaurants are like every restaurant the world over ,long hours , little reward and I hope you don't need English speaking Waiters, to find them, they are as scarce as rocking horse Shiit

[simple1]

Most important thing: without a work permit you can of course be in your restaurant. But most likely you'll attract attention from the police and they will track every movement. Even you do the slightest of work (serve a plate, wash dishes) they will hold up the law against you.

simply supervise as she will be hiring 1-2 "chefs" and 3 wait-staff

which should suffice for 10 tables.

Seems overkill to me. Think about the overhead. You'll be unlikely to make a profit unless you serve expensive high margin food.

Just to add, I had a small Thai restaurant in Australia that had 23 seats that only required one wait staff & myself even when full. I also handled the till and phone calls for takeway orders. Takeaways contributed the most to cash flow/profit, but I assume that doesn't apply to Thailand. Food prep took hours so be aware of this issue. Who going to wash dishes etc on demand as is also time consuming. As much as possible prepare your own food for such things as fish cakes and sauces etc as taste/flavour is all important to obtain regular loyal customers. Go online as there are a number available spreadsheets for restaurants to capture costs and income that give you reports on how you are tracking financially, no nasty surprises!

As a tip, don't know if it's available in Thailand, but Coca Cola provided a large glass fronted fridge for cold drinks at no charge and delivered new stock when required.

Stating the obvious, unless you have freehold, make sure you have a registered lease so you cannot be turfed out on a whim.

As already mentioned the restaurant business is hard work & long hours that more than a few underestimate.

Wish you the very best in your new venture.

[PattayaPhom]

thanks for the replies guys,

wife will not cook, simply supervise as she will be hiring 1-2 "chefs" and 3 wait-staff

which should suffice for 10 tables.

will avoid at all cost, the BiB & local thugs if any.

ok the signage tax has been taken care of, now for the liquor or in this case, BEER

should she be getting a liquor license (only be selling beer to patrons, with a bit of mark up of cos NO ciggies)

i would be surprised if all restauranteurs have liquor license...

forgive the snide remark, had to put it out there....

keep the replies coming!

PS : am in nonthaburi

5 staff for 10 tables. Seriously, you will not be making a profit even if you own the building. 1 chef and 1 waiter will suffice and the Mrs helping if needed.

[KevinB]

My partner is an Executive Chef who I meet in Kenya where she was setting up a very up-market Thai restaurant in the capital. Now we have kids she has "retired" from her profession (she had worked in 17 different countries setting up facilities in hotels as well as restaurants) BUT has over the last 6 years back home set up a number small restaurants in and around Bangkok. My advice - it is bloody tough way to make money - competition is fierce and the price of street food is down in the region of margins as thin as a film of oil on water.

The biggest problems - staff - train them and they leave and it doesn't matter how trusting they are when they start - any profit rapidly disappears out the back door. Very few Thais want to work in the trade so you are having to deal with Cambodians and Burmese (he says with a shudder). The only problem bigger are the relatives - who one is initially tempted to trust - they know I'm an expat (even though I'm totally banned from ever appearing at the facility) and believe my wife to be a successful self made businesswoman (which she is) and therefore honour bound to help out on ever single crisis in their side of the family from school fees to unexpected illness. The daily take shrinks, they blame the waitress and finally you discover it's them - now you have a real family problem - accusing an aunt of "theft". If you have had trouble with the ill laws in the past I can promise - you ain't seen nothing until you insist that your partner finally fire your MiL's sister and tell her she's not to ever come by the restaurant again.

I could go on and on but - the only way it has been marginally profitable was because my partner is a total hospitality professional and knows how to maintain stock - buying meat, prawns etc in BULK and spending hours preparing and freezing meal sized portions. It takes real skill to adjust your buying of vegetables to market and meal preference trends - if not you end up throwing away mountains of stuff.

The problems you can encounter from authorities would take more space than there is to post - but I promise you if you are there it will get worse and secondly if your wife is not bloody bright and experienced at handling life in the small business sector of Thailand - FORGET IT. Life with the SME parasites of Thailand - police, local licensing authorities, health officials, sanitation inspectors, etc etc - is particular difficult and at times harrowing..

Edited February 11, 2014 by KevinB