UK tourist visa rejection

[BKK Blues Brother]

You can see the embassies point of view - a 3 month holiday for a waitress in a coffee shop going to the U.K.

A two week holiday might of been successful.

The 6 month visa she would have received will be valid for the three months

[howerde]

Without seeing the refusal letter (personal details removed) everything is a guess!

If I was a betting man however my guess would be that the reason to return has not been dealt with adequately, and that it is a little ambitious asking for 3 months?

Scan the refusal notice removing the personal details & post it, I am sure you will get some useful advice from the genuine experts like Tony and 7by7.

Even if you asked for one week , you would get a six month Visa. Technically she could stay for the full six months as long as she exited the UK before the end date on the Visa.

If you were to do that, i could see big problems trying to get another tourist visa, things have changed to the way they were done years ago, if you stay longer than you say on your application, make sure you address it in your next application

[JamieNewhall1974]

This is why we were honest, we wanted a 3 month holiday, so that is what we applied for. She had a letter from her boss authorising this leave and promising her job would be waiting for her return. To confirm I was sponsoring the visit and provided all bank statements and P60, even a reference from my boss

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[howerde]

Sorry my remarks were intented for 'Thongkorns post ' i had to add both quotes', sorry for confusion Jamie

Edited February 12, 2014 by howerde

[Phatcharanan]

Just to throw out a thought out for input.

Would the visa review officer have a concern that the sponsor is sending money to Thailand to support GF even though she is working, would this raise doubts as to GF's status.

Yeah, I gotta agree with those thoughts.

Surely the act of sending money to her account every month would suggest that she has no financial means for staying in Thailand or even wanting to return?

[JamieNewhall1974]

She earns 9,200 baht per month. I send 10,000 baht per month. She has her own financial means although not big paid. I just try to help where I can. She would have no financial means whatsoever in the UK. I was only sponsoring her holiday. She wants to return to Thailand not only because that is where her job is, but also her home which she loves

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[tw25rw]

Lots of people send money over, including me, and it doesn't stop them getting visas.

Put together a letter showing that you know and will ensure she abides by all the rules, will finance everything and will see her home at the end and it will pay dividends. Just supplying 'the facts' isn't always enough when the application isn't a strong one. .

[Waterloo]

Without seeing the refusal letter (personal details removed) everything is a guess!

If I was a betting man however my guess would be that the reason to return has not been dealt with adequately, and that it is a little ambitious asking for 3 months?

Scan the refusal notice removing the personal details & post it, I am sure you will get some useful advice from the genuine experts like Tony and 7by7.

Even if you asked for one week , you would get a six month Visa. Technically she could stay for the full six months as long as she exited the UK before the end date on the Visa.

This is extremely bad advice and having applied for a number of family visit visa's over the last 7 years I am well aware that the standard visa is 6 months.

Yes you apply for 2 weeks you receive 6 months, but take 3 months and see what happens next time you make an application if you can't justify the change of plans.

Also bear in mind the OP is hoping to form a lasting relationship and it would be extremely foolish to blot his copy book this early in the relationship.

3 months visits are not impossible you just have to put a convincing case, when the wife & I got married a little over 5 years ago we got 3 month visa's for both her mother an an uncle to come to the UK.

[ThaiVisaExpress]

if you insert on a UK visitors visa form the intention to stay is for 1 month and you stay for the full 6 months the eco may pick up on the fact with your next application.

[JamieNewhall1974]

Without seeing the refusal letter (personal details removed) everything is a guess!

If I was a betting man however my guess would be that the reason to return has not been dealt with adequately, and that it is a little ambitious asking for 3 months?

Scan the refusal notice removing the personal details & post it, I am sure you will get some useful advice from the genuine experts like Tony and 7by7.

Indeed, nobody can give any meaningful advice regarding this actual refusal until the OP posts the Refusal Letter.

In the meantime a number of off topic responses have been removed, if you have any meaningful advice in respect of this actual refusal, then please post it.

Please don't just post hearsay tales about how individuals claimed to have beaten the system.

Thanks, I attach the rejection letter. As ever any help and advice is most welcome

I also attach a copy of the covering letter I submitted with the application (as it summaries all the documents that I submited)

Edited February 14, 2014 by theoldgit
Attachments containing personal details removed.

[BKK Blues Brother]

First time i've heard of an ECO discussing Thai dowry in an official letter.

Maybe a fiance visa is the way to go next time.

Edited February 13, 2014 by BKK Blues Brother

[JamieNewhall1974]

First time i've heard of an ECO discussing Thai dowry in an official letter.

Maybe a fiance visa is the way to go next time.

But we aren't engaged

We only discussed it in passing as I am sure any boyfriend.girlfriend do - engagement/marriage is many years down the line for us

[BKK Blues Brother]

First time i've heard of an ECO discussing Thai dowry in an official letter.

Maybe a fiance visa is the way to go next time.

But we aren't engaged

We only discussed it in passing as I am sure any boyfriend.girlfriend do - engagement/marriage is many years down the line for us

The ECO has seen it all!

I'm not saying this is your case.....

A lot of Brits apply for the visitor visa because it's quicker and easy compared to the alternative visas which in the past few years have become increasingly impossible for many.

They come as a visitor and marry in the U.K then don't return making a mockery of the system.

My advice to you would be to get a couple of two week holiday visits under your belt and see how things work out.

Three months is a suspiciously long holiday.

All the best.

[olddoc]

Clearly what was submitted in the application raised significant doubts in the ECO's mind.

My belief is that you both now need to review that application with the benefit of professional advise.

It would appear a mountain of doubt has now to be overcome.

It will not be easy

Sorry

[tw25rw]

Clearly what was submitted in the application raised significant doubts in the ECO's mind.

My belief is that you both now need to review that application with the benefit of professional advise.

It would appear a mountain of doubt has now to be overcome.

It will not be easy

Sorry

I agree. I thought it was just a case of not showing reason to return, but the quoted messages show they have good reason to be doubtful. As for not having any plans to rush into things, I think she has other ideas. They often do.

[JamieNewhall1974]

To be fair that is not the case, yes true she would want to marry sooner rather than later. But a) she dosent want to live in the UK perm and if we ever get to a point when we marry, she wants a full Thai wedding in her hometown.

Also it worth to note her holiday to UK was always my dream, so she could meet my elderly parents. It was not anything she ever sought or was something she ever pushing for

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited February 13, 2014 by JamieNewhall1974

[JamieNewhall1974]

Incidentally the messages they refer to have been taken totally out of context, within the same messages there is overwhelming evidence of our true intensions. For example they refer to us discussing getting a 3 month visa but staying for 6 months, despite her only having 3 months leave from work. Those discussions were in November when we were just thinking about our application and how long it would be for. And 2 months before we had any agreed leave from her employer

Indeed one of the messages they refer to dosent even exist

Something is seriously wrong here. And I dont believe they actually considered all the documentation I provided, for example they have disregarded the statements of my witnesses, including a high ranking offical of the British Council who has worked closely with the British Embassy in Thailand (as have I)

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[howerde]

Hi Jamie, i have read the rejection, and it is clear the ECO does not believe she is coming as a visitor, she mentions marriage and dowry, even though these may have simply been said to bolster the relationship,, another application with a shorter period in my opinion would not work, as they will be refering to her previous refusal, it is this fact that needs overcoming, the other documentation, seems ok, it is the talk of marriage that needs overcoming. I would consult with an OISC registered agent, and get their take on it. before you submit another application, i hope you get some more feedback, and sorry i could not be more poistive

[Jay Sata]

As I've posted elsewhere according to a UK ECO (BBC Panorama programme) they have to process 50-55 applications a day which means yours has less than five minutes from start to the point where they say yea or nay.

You've also said in earlier posts that you have no intention of marriage or a fiancée approach. Having read all you posts again here is what I think.

If I was in your shoes I'd be using a reputable visa agency.

I don't think you'll win this one alone.

Edited February 13, 2014 by Jay Sata

[JamieNewhall1974]

Thanks for the advice, I will be speaking to a reputable ageny hopefully. We did the initial application on our own (although with much guidance)

I think they must have spent more than 5 minutes on our application. They must have read all 146 pages of text message data to find the one message where we inoccently and light hearted talk about marriage for one day many years in the future

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Jay Sata]

I'm not sure what they read but this ex ECO on BBC Panorama claimed he had to clear 50-55 files a day.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03vlyyg/Panorama_Immigration_Undercover_The_Student_Visa_Scandal/

It's only viewable in the UK.

[Will27]

Thanks for the advice, I will be speaking to a reputable ageny hopefully. We did the initial application on our own (although with much guidance)

I think they must have spent more than 5 minutes on our application. They must have read all 146 pages of text message data to find the one message where we inoccently and light hearted talk about marriage for one day many years in the future

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Personally, I think that you included too much information and you have given them

a chance to find something. A hundred and forty six pages of text messages. Really?

I mean 146 pages of text, emails since 2011 and floor plans of accommodation etc.

I don't profess to know too much about UK visa applications, but it seems over the

top to me, a bit anxious even.

In the covering letter, you seem to be gushing about your girlfriend. Then talking about

a dowry and "finding a way to be together". I can understand the ECO having some doubts

about the true intent of the visit to be honest. It almost reads like a spouse application.

You really should've been more selective about what you included I think.

I know a lot of people subscribe to the theory of you "cannot give too much information" but

I don't agree with that. I think you have just given, well, too much.

Anyway, good luck with the next application.

[ThaiVisaExpress]

For me, the refusal reason about the length of stay would be of more concern. It looks like, from what I read, you have discussed her staying for up 6 months, even though she only has 3 months leave ( which is, in itself a little unusual in Thailand). I would agree that the comments might have been taken out of context, but it would be necessary to see them in full to be able to give a better opinion. The ECO has taken the wording of the immigration rules into account when making her decision, and that is that she must be satisfied that the applicant :

"(ii) intends to leave the United Kingdom at the end of the period of the visit as stated by him" ( my emphasis).

Having applied for a visa for a 3 month visit, and having submitted messages that possibly indicate a stay of 6 months ( with only 3 months leave), the ECO was right to have some doubts. The ECO must be satisfied, and, unfortunately, I think you can see why she wasn't.

That said, if you want to make another application, you will need to overcome the reasons for refusal. If we can help, please let us know.

Tony Martin

[rawhod]

Thanks for the advice, I will be speaking to a reputable ageny hopefully. We did the initial application on our own (although with much guidance)

I think they must have spent more than 5 minutes on our application. They must have read all 146 pages of text message data to find the one message where we inoccently and light hearted talk about marriage for one day many years in the future

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Personally, I think that you included too much information and you have given them

a chance to find something. A hundred and forty six pages of text messages. Really?

I mean 146 pages of text, emails since 2011 and floor plans of accommodation etc.

I don't profess to know too much about UK visa applications, but it seems over the

top to me, a bit anxious even.

In the covering letter, you seem to be gushing about your girlfriend. Then talking about

a dowry and "finding a way to be together". I can understand the ECO having some doubts

about the true intent of the visit to be honest. It almost reads like a spouse application.

You really should've been more selective about what you included I think.

I know a lot of people subscribe to the theory of you "cannot give too much information" but

I don't agree with that. I think you have just given, well, too much.

Anyway, good luck with the next application.

and can

I would agree partly with this reply.

Our first application was refused.

I know the feeling... that your home country, the country that you were born in, paid taxes in and been a model citizen of for many decades has refused a simple request to take your girlfriend there to see the country and your family.

But I did got over it, learned from it and we made several more applications which were successful.

We have always included a fair amount of information, photo's, emails,etc, , but have been selective in choosing information that tells the story and draws the correct conclusions. This last point, I learned, is most pertinent.

If you want the ECO to draw a certain conclusion, tell him/her. From my experience, they do not appear to use any common sense and can, in fact draw a counter productive conclusion, as they appear to have done in your case.

For your next application, scrutinise, read and re-read the submitted information from the ECO's point of view, not from your knowledgeable point of view.

You will first of all need to address the points the ECO has raised in the rejection notice, then put together a cohesive story.

Contrary to what others suggest, I included an up to three page covering letter setting out our past history together and future intentions.

I also include a separate list of submitted documents for both myself and my (now) wife.

It becomes easier after the first successful application as you then have a model which just needs updating each time you apply.

Remember, you have all the information to make a successful application. But TVE advice may be useful.

Good luck...

Edit after TVE reply.

Edited February 14, 2014 by rawhod

[David48]

Thanks for the advice, I will be speaking to a reputable ageny hopefully. We did the initial application on our own (although with much guidance)

I think they must have spent more than 5 minutes on our application. They must have read all 146 pages of text message data to find the one message where we inoccently and light hearted talk about marriage for one day many years in the future

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Personally, I think that you included too much information and you have given them

a chance to find something. A hundred and forty six pages of text messages. Really?

I mean 146 pages of text, emails since 2011 and floor plans of accommodation etc.

I don't profess to know too much about UK visa applications, but it seems over the

top to me, a bit anxious even.

In the covering letter, you seem to be gushing about your girlfriend. Then talking about

a dowry and "finding a way to be together". I can understand the ECO having some doubts

about the true intent of the visit to be honest. It almost reads like a spouse application.

You really should've been more selective about what you included I think.

I know a lot of people subscribe to the theory of you "cannot give too much information" but

I don't agree with that. I think you have just given, well, too much.

Anyway, good luck with the next application.

+1

146 pages of text, emails since 2011 and floor plans of accommodation ...

Don't over think the situation.

Tick their (government employees) boxes.

Visa Approval ...

Simples ....

[7by7]

Why include the content of texts and emails? You wouldn't do the same for phone calls, indeed couldn't unless you'd recorded them all!

To judge whether or not a relationship exists between sponsor and applicant the ECO needs to know that they communicate whilst apart; but they don't need to know the content of that communication, simply that it has taken place.

[Waterloo]

Without seeing the refusal letter (personal details removed) everything is a guess!

If I was a betting man however my guess would be that the reason to return has not been dealt with adequately, and that it is a little ambitious asking for 3 months?

Scan the refusal notice removing the personal details & post it, I am sure you will get some useful advice from the genuine experts like Tony and 7by7.

Indeed, nobody can give any meaningful advice regarding this actual refusal until the OP posts the Refusal Letter.

In the meantime a number of off topic responses have been removed, if you have any meaningful advice in respect of this actual refusal, then please post it.

Please don't just post hearsay tales about how individuals claimed to have beaten the system.

Thanks, I attach the rejection letter. As ever any help and advice is most welcome

I also attach a copy of the covering letter I submitted with the application (as it summaries all the documents that I submited)

Note to Jamie & Mods

Can I politely suggest that two many personal details have been revealed here on an open forum & it would be advisable to modify the post deleting the personal details.

[Seekingasylum]

Oh dear.

It seems the OP shot himself in the foot before submitting the application.

In the hands of a good lawyer it could be challenged at JR but the outcome would be by no means certain and possibly not worth the expense.

As Tony Martin has rightly observed, the onus is on the applicant to " satisfy " the visa officer as to intentions. Ambiguous references in private conversations to six months visits etc can only introduce an element of doubt.The test of course is on the balance of probability and this can work both ways.

Chap was a tad naive, to say the least.

In practical terms, there would be little point in submitting another application quickly since they are almost bound to refuse it again given there has been no material changes in circumstances since the previous refusal.

Perhaps time to bring forward the nuptials?

[bobrussell]

A suitable covering letter may make a difference. The 3 months stay that might become 6 months was a bit of a shot in the foot.

Explain your lack of understanding of the visa application process. Accept that the information given was somewhat confusing and that you see why the application was rejected.

Then you have the real job of convincing them of the reasons to return. Here you may need some professional help. Three months is a lot of leave so her job will probably not be considered as a reason to return. If the ECO has misunderstood and the idea of a six months stay was prior to asking for leave this can be clarified for the ECO.

My gf's employer was willing to allow three months leave which we accept is pretty unusual for Thailand but would not consider a longer period .....

You are in to damage limitations! Keep things brief, factual and specific. I agree that a volume of emails is likely to be ignored whereas selected, dated ones (headers etc) will be considered.

We bought some land (and a bit later a bargain house) both had to be in my gf's (now wife)name. I suspect this was a clincher then.

I don't think a further application is necessarily damned on the basis of this one but it is going to take a lot of work to remove the element of doubt. Others have managed it!

Do not even consider getting married just to aid a visa application!!

[David48]

Do not even consider getting married just to aid a visa application!!

+1