My Ranger Saga, For member John 1.

[Spoonman]

Water was approx 300mm deep however as it was a flooded soi the length of water was about 800m.

Yes you have some issues with Ford to address, delivery of the spare's you require but that is a minor point. As for bent con rod when we used to live in Darwin my friend went into some deep water and that was a result not over fueling. As for dept of 300mm the Toyoto handbook says can do 500mm but don't forget when you are pushing water you have a bow wave and it can run over the bonnet and into the intake air manifold under the right guard. This is all a can of worm's and more question's asked and still no perfect answer as customer think's they are right and Ford same same. So thanks for all you info but I think it's time for me to sit on the fence.

would be an impressive bow wave to go over the bonnet of a Hi-Rider Ranger given a water depth of 300mm.

[Chao Lao Beach]

Fix Or Repair Daily,F O R D,signed Holden fan

You will both have something in common soon, Made In Thailand

[inzman]

Ford service in Thailand sucks! Have you heard of the focus transmission problems, they won't release the service bulletin to the customers. Found on road dead!

[manarak]

What is the legal warranty though ?

It is basically stated in the owners manual to the effect of their policy in regards to water ingress.

What I mean with legal warranty is warranty provided by Law, as opposed to warranty provided by Ford.

Legal warranty would be provided by laws such as the consumer protection act for example.

If that applies to cars, you still have to prove the water ingress was due to a fault and not to a self-caused damage or usage in unappropriate conditions.

If the air intakes were dry, I would say that's a good starting point.

But you will need a lawyer.

[guzzi850m2]

Beating your car to pieces i front of the ford dealer and many TV crews should get someones attention. I know that sounds extreme but having a car that can't be driven for over a year...I think I'd be resorting to drastic measures such as this.

Well I think Spoonman is in the Auto business in Thailand so perhaps not really an option for him?

Speaking for myself, I sort of agree with you but would more like try as below.

If it happened to my truck, I would park it out on Sukhumvit (in front of Ford Pattaya ) and have a big sign made up, saying: Don't buy a Ford as the service sucks (Thai and English), stop paying the monthly payments and get a laywer, write to all the Ford CEO's I can find on the e-net and generally make life as miserable for them as posilbe.

One poster here on Thaivisa had water going over the bonnet on his Ranger and nothing happened and my wife have been driving on flooded roads in ours too, so I don't think it's a wide spread problem but it seems like Ford's service sucks big time and one can only hope it's never needed.

[Spoonman]

What is the legal warranty though ?

It is basically stated in the owners manual to the effect of their policy in regards to water ingress.

What I mean with legal warranty is warranty provided by Law, as opposed to warranty provided by Ford.

Legal warranty would be provided by laws such as the consumer protection act for example.

If that applies to cars, you still have to prove the water ingress was due to a fault and not to a self-caused damage or usage in unappropriate conditions.

If the air intakes were dry, I would say that's a good starting point.

But you will need a lawyer.

Does legal warranty differ to Ford warranty ?

[Spoonman]

Beating your car to pieces i front of the ford dealer and many TV crews should get someones attention. I know that sounds extreme but having a car that can't be driven for over a year...I think I'd be resorting to drastic measures such as this.

Well I think Spoonman is in the Auto business in Thailand so perhaps not really an option for him?

Speaking for myself, I sort of agree with you but would more like try as below.

If it happened to my truck, I would park it out on Sukhumvit (in front of Ford Pattaya ) and have a big sign made up, saying: Don't buy a Ford as the service sucks (Thai and English), stop paying the monthly payments and get a laywer, write to all the Ford CEO's I can find on the e-net and generally make life as miserable for them as posilbe.

One poster here on Thaivisa had water going over the bonnet on his Ranger and nothing happened and my wife have been driving on flooded roads in ours too, so I don't think it's a wide spread problem but it seems like Ford's service sucks big time and one can only hope it's never needed.

I actually said to my Boss if the vehicle was stillrunning I would set it on fire and drop a brick onto the throttle and aim it at the Ford Pattaya showroom....

He suggest whilst the idea has merit it would also result in my employment being terminated under the "you got arrested and thrown in Jail" clause.

[BSJ]

Looking at diesels in 4x4's generally. If the dipstick is firmly in place and the oil filler cap is on tight and no hoses are leaking the only way for water to enter the engine is through the air cleaner. 300mm of water isn't a big deal. Last rainy season in the dip opposite Caltex on Sukhumvit Rd about 350m from Thepprasit Rd, going Sth, my old Strada was wading through 500mm at a leisurely 6 or 7kph and along comes some dick in a big 6x6 navy truck doing about 20kph and there is water going everywhere...including over my bonnet. Luckily none entered the engine.

In the Spoonman mobile nightmare case he himself said the air cleaner had not taken any water in. So, how did the water get in?

[BSJ]

Looking at diesels in 4x4's generally. If the dipstick is firmly in place and the oil filler cap is on tight and no hoses are leaking the only way for water to enter the engine is through the air cleaner. 300mm of water isn't a big deal. Last rainy season in the dip opposite Caltex on Sukhumvit Rd about 350m from Thepprasit Rd, going Sth, my old Strada was wading through 500mm at a leisurely 6 or 7kph and along comes some dick in a big 6x6 navy truck doing about 20kph and there is water going everywhere...including over my bonnet. Luckily none entered the engine.

In the Spoonman mobile nightmare case he himself said the air cleaner had not taken any water in. So, how did the water get in?

[Woodsie888]

Looking at diesels in 4x4's generally. If the dipstick is firmly in place and the oil filler cap is on tight and no hoses are leaking the only way for water to enter the engine is through the air cleaner. 300mm of water isn't a big deal. Last rainy season in the dip opposite Caltex on Sukhumvit Rd about 350m from Thepprasit Rd, going Sth, my old Strada was wading through 500mm at a leisurely 6 or 7kph and along comes some dick in a big 6x6 navy truck doing about 20kph and there is water going everywhere...including over my bonnet. Luckily none entered the engine.

In the Spoonman mobile nightmare case he himself said the air cleaner had not taken any water in. So, how did the water get in?

Maybe I'm not too good at comprehension because the way I read Spoony's post's he indicates no water ingress.

Water interference with the timing sensor caused the damage. It seems the timing sensor needs shielding. FORD will probably do this as a modification at some point.

It won't assist him much, and as we all know, banks, insurance companies & motor manufacturers all sing from the same song book if they think they can dodge their obligations.

[manarak]

What is the legal warranty though ?

It is basically stated in the owners manual to the effect of their policy in regards to water ingress.

What I mean with legal warranty is warranty provided by Law, as opposed to warranty provided by Ford.

Legal warranty would be provided by laws such as the consumer protection act for example.

If that applies to cars, you still have to prove the water ingress was due to a fault and not to a self-caused damage or usage in unappropriate conditions.

If the air intakes were dry, I would say that's a good starting point.

But you will need a lawyer.

Does legal warranty differ to Ford warranty ?

Ford warranty can only be more generous than legal warranty. Clauses more restrictive than legal warranty would be illegal.

But I don't know the legal warranty for cars in Thailand.

A lawyer could tell you.

[BSJ]

Looking at diesels in 4x4's generally. If the dipstick is firmly in place and the oil filler cap is on tight and no hoses are leaking the only way for water to enter the engine is through the air cleaner. 300mm of water isn't a big deal. Last rainy season in the dip opposite Caltex on Sukhumvit Rd about 350m from Thepprasit Rd, going Sth, my old Strada was wading through 500mm at a leisurely 6 or 7kph and along comes some dick in a big 6x6 navy truck doing about 20kph and there is water going everywhere...including over my bonnet. Luckily none entered the engine.

In the Spoonman mobile nightmare case he himself said the air cleaner had not taken any water in. So, how did the water get in?

[Spoonman]

Looking at diesels in 4x4's generally. If the dipstick is firmly in place and the oil filler cap is on tight and no hoses are leaking the only way for water to enter the engine is through the air cleaner. 300mm of water isn't a big deal. Last rainy season in the dip opposite Caltex on Sukhumvit Rd about 350m from Thepprasit Rd, going Sth, my old Strada was wading through 500mm at a leisurely 6 or 7kph and along comes some dick in a big 6x6 navy truck doing about 20kph and there is water going everywhere...including over my bonnet. Luckily none entered the engine.

In the Spoonman mobile nightmare case he himself said the air cleaner had not taken any water in. So, how did the water get in?

with our (my work) investigations we found a small exhaust leak on the turbo. now apparently even though the turbo obviously pressurizes the intake charge under certain low throttle conditions a vacuum is also present. we also found moisture in the EGR valve.

Nothing is conclusive due to the nature of how the engine and ancillaries were dismantled and stored.

My engine failure was of high importance to my work as we have had several other Rangers out in the field die a very similar fate. in those instances due to the warranty*** we put on our vehicles a replacement engine was fitted without question.

*** Our warranty not the Ford one. we warranty all modified vehicles we sell ourselves.

[IMHO]

What is the legal warranty though ?

It is basically stated in the owners manual to the effect of their policy in regards to water ingress.

What I mean with legal warranty is warranty provided by Law, as opposed to warranty provided by Ford.

Legal warranty would be provided by laws such as the consumer protection act for example.

If that applies to cars, you still have to prove the water ingress was due to a fault and not to a self-caused damage or usage in unappropriate conditions.

If the air intakes were dry, I would say that's a good starting point.

But you will need a lawyer.

There is no statutory warranty for cars in Thailand. Any warranty is purely up to the seller/manufacturer.

There are consumer protection laws, but these are basically "did you get what you paid for?"....

[bkkjames]

I think the OP should set up a FB Page Dedicated to his truck.

Call it The (not so) Lone Ranger? Horrors stories from Thailand. Pretty sure we can make this viral enough to end up in the in box of someone in Detroit.

[moojar]

Fix Or Repair Daily,F O R D,signed Holden fan

You will both have something in common soon, Made In Thailand

Nah, Holdens are made in Korea. Daiwooooooooooooooo

[John 1]

Looking at diesels in 4x4's generally. If the dipstick is firmly in place and the oil filler cap is on tight and no hoses are leaking the only way for water to enter the engine is through the air cleaner. 300mm of water isn't a big deal. Last rainy season in the dip opposite Caltex on Sukhumvit Rd about 350m from Thepprasit Rd, going Sth, my old Strada was wading through 500mm at a leisurely 6 or 7kph and along comes some dick in a big 6x6 navy truck doing about 20kph and there is water going everywhere...including over my bonnet. Luckily none entered the engine.

In the Spoonman mobile nightmare case he himself said the air cleaner had not taken any water in. So, how did the water get in?

with our (my work) investigations we found a small exhaust leak on the turbo. now apparently even though the turbo obviously pressurizes the intake charge under certain low throttle conditions a vacuum is also present. we also found moisture in the EGR valve.

Nothing is conclusive due to the nature of how the engine and ancillaries were dismantled and stored.

My engine failure was of high importance to my work as we have had several other Rangers out in the field die a very similar fate. in those instances due to the warranty*** we put on our vehicles a replacement engine was fitted without question.

*** Our warranty not the Ford one. we warranty all modified vehicles we sell ourselves.

The company you work for does as required cover's any modification's you make as you can't expect Ford or any car company to cover modified vehicle's.

If you still have found moisture on the EGR valve and it's not stored out in the rain it seem's to point to some sort of water intake into the manifold.

[cocoy]

could the water have gotten in through the intercooler hoses,, just thinking.. as that would be the lowest part that water can enter..

[manarak]

What is the legal warranty though ?

It is basically stated in the owners manual to the effect of their policy in regards to water ingress.

What I mean with legal warranty is warranty provided by Law, as opposed to warranty provided by Ford.

Legal warranty would be provided by laws such as the consumer protection act for example.

If that applies to cars, you still have to prove the water ingress was due to a fault and not to a self-caused damage or usage in unappropriate conditions.

If the air intakes were dry, I would say that's a good starting point.

But you will need a lawyer.

There is no statutory warranty for cars in Thailand. Any warranty is purely up to the seller/manufacturer.

There are consumer protection laws, but these are basically "did you get what you paid for?"....

there goes the hope...

[manarak]

related thread:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/665565-thai-consumer-protection-auto-gripes-top-consumer-complaints-list/

[ste860]

i know a similar story with a ford focus ,it was nearly 8 months wait for my friend to get it back , and the car was never the same ,ford had it back a few times and sent it away for testing in bkk ,she was well p##s off ,in the end she just got rid of it

events like this are why i wont even step foot in a ford dealer

[culicine]

Beating your car to pieces i front of the ford dealer and many TV crews should get someones attention. I know that sounds extreme but having a car that can't be driven for over a year...I think I'd be resorting to drastic measures such as this.

...and expect the insurance to cover this...

what's the difference, looks like they are not covering the engine itself anyway. Just the motor would be well over 100K itself. Note to neself...NEVER but a ford in Thailand, despite however good the product may be.

[Spoonman]

Long motor is 80k.

[transam]

Whatever ride one buys, in any country, the aftercare is one of the most important things to look at. I have never owned a Toyota in my long-ish life but I knew on moving to LOS I would buy a Toyota. Back in blighty the best motor engineer I have ever known, who worked on near every ride you cam mention, always bought a Toyota for his daily use, why, said I don't want to work on my work horse, buy and forget.

But, of course there is nooooooooooo 100% reliable ride on the planet, no matter how much one pays.

[Wong!]

Fix Or Repair Daily,F O R D,signed Holden fan

You will both have something in common soon, Made In Thailand

Nah, Holdens are made in Korea. Daiwooooooooooooooo

No, made in Thailand.

[IMHO]

But, of course there is nooooooooooo 100% reliable ride on the planet, no matter how much one pays.

Correct - no such thing as a car designed to last much more than warranty, and with most brands you can at least expect that... Unfortunately it appears some brands spend more on 18-month long pre-launch marketing campaigns than they do on engineering

[moojar]

Fix Or Repair Daily,F O R D,signed Holden fan

You will both have something in common soon, Made In Thailand

Nah, Holdens are made in Korea. Daiwooooooooooooooo

No, made in Thailand.

The Colorado is made in Thailand sure, but they make Holdens in both Thailand and Korea - "Already, the majority of Holden’s cars come courtesy of factories in South Korea and Thailand."

http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor-news/holden-brand-not-going-anywhere-20131211-2z5ra.html

[eaustev]

i know a similar story with a ford focus ,it was nearly 8 months wait for my friend to get it back , and the car was never the same ,ford had it back a few times and sent it away for testing in bkk ,she was well p##s off ,in the end she just got rid of it

events like this are why i wont even step foot in a ford dealer

Two years ago I had a Series II Focus delivered that was so bad that I had Ford take it back and replace it. Wasn't easy getting them to do that!! The Series II were built in the Philippines and I think/hope the Thai built new model should be bolted together a bit better.

[MadMac]

Ford dealership made all kind of bogus statements when I was there inquiring the Ranger. Both dealers in Chiang Mai. Lied straight into my face, things like Mazda is selling an old model (which is basically the same car) or that the Ranger just won a security competition in Singapore against all others. Absolute BS. Reason enough not to trust them, that was pre-sales. What if it comes to service if one buys one?! And this thread just confirms all that. Really feel sorry for you guys, this really sucks big time!

[IMHO]

i know a similar story with a ford focus ,it was nearly 8 months wait for my friend to get it back , and the car was never the same ,ford had it back a few times and sent it away for testing in bkk ,she was well p##s off ,in the end she just got rid of it

events like this are why i wont even step foot in a ford dealer

Two years ago I had a Series II Focus delivered that was so bad that I had Ford take it back and replace it. Wasn't easy getting them to do that!! The Series II were built in the Philippines and I think/hope the Thai built new model should be bolted together a bit better.

It doesn't take engineers to screw cars together, but it does take good engineers to design the assembly process in such a way that QC standards are maintained... It shouldn't matter if the car in made in Philippines, Thailand, Japan, Vietnam, Russia, China, America etc - it should always meet QC standards. The only real 'local variables' are component costs, energy costs, import/export costs, and labor costs.

The issue with your old Focus is not because it was made in the Philippines instead of Thailand...