Corruption main cause of rice subsidy problems: NIDA survey

[The Deerhunter]

Offensive yes, amybe but probably perfectly correct. The rice payments are owing from a time before the current "closedown Bangkok" protests. AND people are complaining about not being paid for periods many months before Sept Oct, and the Govt says that's not true. I think if a northern rice farmer says he hasn't been paid he is probably correct, despite what the (caretaker) govt says.

Who should be responsible for the government’s failure on overdue payments?

The highest percentage of 35.92 named the caretaker prime minister, followed by the Cabinet at 32.33 per cent, the commerce minister at 16.58 per cent, the anti-government People’s Democratic Reform Committee at 9.85 per cent,

There will always be people with lower mental capabilities, in the Thai society.

People can always have their own opinion, right or wrong. No need to bash them because their opinion is different from yours.

Your comment is totally out of line.

My initial reaction was similar. But, then I considered the education system of Thailand, and decided not to make this type of post. You just can't blame farmers who owe whatever they have to what is now the PTP.

In just about every article I read about the rice pledge scheme, they find some farmer who blames Suthep or the protesters for their failed payment. The scheme was doomed to failure from the start, both on economic terms and given the likelihood of corruption. The government should just salvage as much money as they can from the stockpiled rice and admit that the taxpayers will be soaked for the rest. If they need a loan to bridge the payments, they should provide transparent accounting, so that a credible financial institution can support a business decision for the loan. Given the caretaker government status, and the lack of current accounts, it's no surprise the government can't find any financial institutions willing to extend credit.

Allow me to be more accurate, he did not speak about education level, but lower mental capabilities, that sure is offensive.

[mightyatom]

The important thing to glean from this is that combined about 82% have said the responsibility sits with the government. and less than 10% say PDRC.

So even though it shows that some people have had their minds clouded with spin and manipulation. The common opinion is that it is the government at fault.

The 10% can also been possibly seen as taken from staunch red shirt farmers who have already been paid, thanks to their loyalty to the Shins, in which case would not really reflect their feeling on the subject.

[metisdead]

A nonsense trolling post has been removed as well as the replies.

[lostinsurin]

Who should be responsible for the government’s failure on overdue payments?

The highest percentage of 35.92 named the caretaker prime minister, followed by the Cabinet at 32.33 per cent, the commerce minister at 16.58 per cent, the anti-government People’s Democratic Reform Committee at 9.85 per cent,

There will always be people with lower mental capabilities, in the Thai society.

For someone who comes from the most corrupt country in Europe, you have a lot to say,

and just who are the people of lower mental capabilities you refer to in you new homeland?

So happy for you to have found somewhere you feel able to look down on people (something you could not have not done in Europe)

[Docno]

"Corruption main cause of rice subsidy problems" This headline has to take Olympic Gold for the most Sublime Glimpse of the Obvious (SGO)! If this is the best the NIDA survey can come up with they need to find some new analysts.

Let's be clear:

1. The headline of this thread is wrong.

2. It is wrong because the survey provides no evidence as to actual corruption - it simply polls farmers on what they think is the cause of the problem.

3. The NIDA researchers' were actually clear on this in the title of their paper: it refers to the perceptions of farmers.

4. And that's all the survey tells us about: the perceptions, accurate or not, of a key stakeholder group.

So this survey proves nothing beyond where the farmers are laying the blame for the problem.

[Docno]

Who should be responsible for the government’s failure on overdue payments?

The highest percentage of 35.92 named the caretaker prime minister, followed by the Cabinet at 32.33 per cent, the commerce minister at 16.58 per cent, the anti-government People’s Democratic Reform Committee at 9.85 per cent,

There will always be people with lower mental capabilities, in the Thai society.

Was that before or after Red Shirt Uber-Leader Dr. Weng told "his" red shirts that Suthep is to blame for the delay in payments?

Hmmmm: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/pdrc-leader-warns-banks-rice-loans-government/

When the leader of the protest movement threatens banks if they provide loans, what do you call it?

[^_^]

I stumbled across this interesting website which talks about the various government schemes and the backgrounds to them. Corruption is frequently mentioned and (no surprises here) linked to just about every scheme undertaken by the Thai government including the rice pledging scheme.

http://altthainews.blogspot.com/2014/02/thaksins-war-on-99-continues-this-time.html

From the results of the NIDA survey it seems to me that the majority of the farmers are not the poor uneducated people they are made out to be. They seem to be well aware of the governments role in the failure of the rice pledging scheme.

Exactly.

The farmers aren't as stupid as many here claim them to be.

The farmers knew exactly what they are getting into but as long as they get to share a pie of the pie, they are more than happy to support the "schame" (a mix of scheme and scam).

No! I'm not blaming the farmers here! If I am one of the farmers here in Thailand, I would have supported the schame too; because any other parties never-wouldn't even let them pick on the breadcrumbs.

If only the Demorats could get off their high horses and break the ice-barrier between the hiso and noso, then, only then, things might really change; and then, only then, Thailand may have a chance of separating the poor from the grasp of the manipulating Big T.

Note 1: I was thinking of deleting this post even before I post it...as I was pretty drunk...but...decided to post it anyway as I get to get it off my chest.

Note 2: Mods are welcome to delete it if it's too blabberish to understand what's been posted

Good night

Reason of edit: just to add...in summary...the farmers are blinded by the own hatred for the uncaring Demorats to see the bigger "damage" they are supporting.

Edited February 12, 2014 by ^_^

[Bluespunk]

Deleted. Off topic.

Edited February 12, 2014 by Bluespunk

[tonglen]

YOU need look no further to the government of Greece as a poster child for a failed government of lower intellectual capacity.

Who should be responsible for the government’s failure on overdue payments?

The highest percentage of 35.92 named the caretaker prime minister, followed by the Cabinet at 32.33 per cent, the commerce minister at 16.58 per cent, the anti-government People’s Democratic Reform Committee at 9.85 per cent,

There will always be people with lower mental capabilities, in the Thai society.

[tonglen]

This should not come as a surprise to anyone here.

Governmental Corruption is the main cause of problems in EVERY society - developed or otherwise.

[Ulic]

Personally I would rather have a group of forensic accountants tell me the facts than the survey opinions of rice farmers.

No offence intended but I am more interested in the facts and then I will form my own opinion.

[stoffel45]

Hey, Thaksin - yeah you over there or doing your black magic stuff in Burma - the Rice Farmers voted for you. You said (OK so it was your sister - but we know better) "If you vote for ME, I will pay you 15,000 baht per tonne.

You got our votes - now you cheat on the deal.

You are now the EX-head of the Farmers' Association.

You, Thaksin are as bad as Suthep says you are. Your word is dust - Dubai dust. Worth nothing.

All our families in the whole of Issan trusted you - more fools us.

Try to get our votes now - no chance!

[JRSoul]

It seems most of the farmers will only drink the red Kool-Aid when there are financial incentives attached. When their eyes aren't glazed over by the thought of unearned wealth, most see right through the PTP propaganda and lay the blame where it rightfully belongs.

As for the other 10%, when people ask "Are you stupid or something?" they always reply "Stupid is as stupid does."

[noitom]

Corruption , the source of problems in Thailand rice? Gee, that's a surprise. It is no surprise that many major food clubs and markets in the US have stopped selling Thai rice for fear of receiving rotted out contaminated rice.

[paymaster]

Survey = opinion.

Not facts.

so you can oblige us with the real facts then sharon...will come back later to check what you have listed as 100% pure fact ok..

One 100% fact is that the poster was Shannon and not Sharon.

[Emster23]

"Corruption main cause of ******* problems" and the tolerance of the public for it as long as they get a piece of it. Plenty of surveys confirm that.

[tomyummer]

You need a university survey to tell you this?

[razer]

The Economist has an excellent article on this topic - http://www.economist.com/news/asia/21583281-increasingly-unpopular-government-sticks-its-worst-and-most-costly-policy-rice-mountain

[iancnx]

Back to the OP. Without doubt the percentages shows a growing discontent with the government from its rank and file support. One would assume these are farmers who have the wherewithal to form their own opinions on the governments mismanagement of this ridiculous criminally masterminded scheme. The others are clearly those who sit in the Tambon listening to local radio red propaganda all day long and are fed Terrestrial TV government controlled news at breakfast and dinner.

On balance it is very reassuring to see the tide turning.

[iancnx]

The Economist has an excellent article on this topic - http://www.economist.com/news/asia/21583281-increasingly-unpopular-government-sticks-its-worst-and-most-costly-policy-rice-mountain

It is indeed an excellent piece of factual FACTUAL reporting. For those who still bathe themselves in red take a peek at this (if you can stomach it):

Quote// The rice subsidy was classic Thaksin populism. Two-fifths of Thais work in agriculture, most of them as rice farmers. Ms Yingluck promised that, if she were elected, her government would buy unmilled rice directly from farmers at about twice the market rate, or 15,000 baht (about $500) per tonne. This would put money into poor farmers pockets and stimulate domestic demand. Naysayers warned that the scheme would be impossibly expensive. But Thaksin advisers said that withdrawing rice from world markets in this way would force up the price. Since Thailand was the worlds biggest exporter, the government would be able to cash in later by selling its stockpiles of grain at a profit.//

LOL. !!!

[tonytigerbkk]

Voting = Opinion

Not Facts.

OR

When we win the vote of the people it is a huge overwhelming majority of the population that want the PTP. And thats a fact.

When we don't win the vote of the people it does not count and is not facts.

Win win heay….

Not in the eyes of the NACC

In the UK, the PM got elected with around 20% of the total population voting for him.

Are you suggesting he should leave office? Maybe you should go block the streets of London if you don't understand how democracy works.

Or we could do it like North Korea and shoot everyone that doesn't go vote, if you want 100% of people to go vote.

If David Cameron raped the UK of all of its assets, filled all of the top positions of power with his relatives, acted with impunity to the law, corrupted the voting system so that there could only be one outcome, tried to introduce laws to benefit dangerous fugitives because they are family members, set up government projects which he knew would fail but he would benefit from directly, refused to work within court rulings, etc… then yes he leave office and the streets should be blocked if he refuses.

However, we both know that the Prime Minister of the UK (and every democratic nation in the world) could not act and get away with the antics of the Shinawatra clan.

As for your North Korea quote, change this to ‘Or we could do it like North Thailand and intimidate/dupe everyone that doesn't go vote, if you want 100% of people to go vote for you’ and you would not be too far from the truth.

[Keesters]

I know little of the history of this subject as I don't follow political matters very closely. But I'm just wondering

1) What was the price of rice before the government pledged to pay the farmers 15,000/tonne?

2) Were the farmers forced to accept this price or did they have a choice to opt out?

If the answer to 1) was far lower than 15,000 and the answer to 2) is no then it could also be said that the farmers greed in wanting far more than it was worth is also a part of the problem. That is not meant as an excuse for all the other causes of the rice subsidy problems but should also be taken into account.

[tim armstrong]

The facts: farmers sold their rice to the government for an agreed price many months ago, and received a receipt. Fact - more than 1 million of them have not been paid. Fact - government has a huge stockpile of rice because it could not force the international price up, and there are no buyers at a g to g level. Fact - the rice still has not been sold and will deteriorate over time. Fact: farmers maybe able to get some of their rice back to sell privately at a lower price. Fact; their debts will rapidly increase whatever happens as they have large loans to pay off. Fact: Even if the lenders took back the land - there is nothing they can do with it - except farming. Whose problem? clearly the government is acting in breach of contract and has raised expectations of their key supporters, - who they have deceived.

[tonytigerbkk]

I know little of the history of this subject as I don't follow political matters very closely. But I'm just wondering

1) What was the price of rice before the government pledged to pay the farmers 15,000/tonne?

2) Were the farmers forced to accept this price or did they have a choice to opt out?

If the answer to 1) was far lower than 15,000 and the answer to 2) is no then it could also be said that the farmers greed in wanting far more than it was worth is also a part of the problem. That is not meant as an excuse for all the other causes of the rice subsidy problems but should also be taken into account.

The only fault of the farmers here is believing empty promises.

Any producer of goods would accept a higher price for their product, especially when it comes from a so called friend and their family’s future is dependant on this.

When a pathological liar spins their story it is very hard not to believe them, as they have had a lot of practice in convincing people that their stories are true.

The Shinawatra clan has made their living by dealing in lies and as such are very good at it.

There are 8 families in Thailand who are grieving the loss of a prominent (and innocent) family member due to these lies (and probably more will follow).

Are you suggesting that we partially blame these farmers who wanted to offer their children better clothes, food & education and then killed themselves when they realized that they had been duped?

Maybe you can be the one who can inform their grieving relatives of this.

NO farmers are to blame for this fiasco.

This one lies squarely on the shoulders of the square faced family.

[samjaidee]

Who should be responsible for the government’s failure on overdue payments?

The highest percentage of 35.92 named the caretaker prime minister, followed by the Cabinet at 32.33 per cent, the commerce minister at 16.58 per cent, the anti-government People’s Democratic Reform Committee at 9.85 per cent,

There will always be people with lower mental capabilities, in the Thai society.

People can always have their own opinion, right or wrong. No need to bash them because their opinion is different from yours.

Your comment is totally out of line.

I see your point Newcomer but the problem here is that there are many people in Thailand who have uninformed opinions. Their opinions are based on hearsay and biased media reporting.

Granted, the same could be said of many countries but the government here deliberately prevent the majority of the population from developing informed opinions by limiting their educational opportunities or by simply lying. When you're not taught how to think for yourself, and too often do not have access to the Internet it's difficult to generate an informed opinion.

[samjaidee]

Survey = opinion.

Not facts.

Wrong. Every answer to a survey question is a fact.

The fact is that the answer is the opinion of the respondent.

Any comment, ShannonT?

[samuidave]

Who should be responsible for the government’s failure on overdue payments?

The highest percentage of 35.92 named the caretaker prime minister, followed by the Cabinet at 32.33 per cent, the commerce minister at 16.58 per cent, the anti-government People’s Democratic Reform Committee at 9.85 per cent,

There will always be people with lower mental capabilities, in the Thai society.

People can always have their own opinion, right or wrong. No need to bash them because their opinion is different from yours.

Your comment is totally out of line.

My initial reaction was similar. But, then I considered the education system of Thailand, and decided not to make this type of post. You just can't blame farmers who owe whatever they have to what is now the PTP.

In just about every article I read about the rice pledge scheme, they find some farmer who blames Suthep or the protesters for their failed payment. The scheme was doomed to failure from the start, both on economic terms and given the likelihood of corruption. The government should just salvage as much money as they can from the stockpiled rice and admit that the taxpayers will be soaked for the rest. If they need a loan to bridge the payments, they should provide transparent accounting, so that a credible financial institution can support a business decision for the loan. Given the caretaker government status, and the lack of current accounts, it's no surprise the government can't find any financial institutions willing to extend credit.

Allow me to be more accurate, he did not speak about education level, but lower mental capabilities, that sure is offensive.

The truth is the truth. Some are stupider than others. Some uglier. Some taller. Some more corrupt.

To blame the protesters against corruption for the corrupt non-payment under a corrupt rice-pledging plan strongly suggests that the mental faculties in issue are less than optimal.

[samuidave]

Voting = Opinion

Not Facts.

OR

When we win the vote of the people it is a huge overwhelming majority of the population that want the PTP. And thats a fact.

When we don't win the vote of the people it does not count and is not facts.

Win win heay….

Not in the eyes of the NACC

In the UK, the PM got elected with around 20% of the total population voting for him.

Are you suggesting he should leave office? Maybe you should go block the streets of London if you don't understand how democracy works.

Or we could do it like North Korea and shoot everyone that doesn't go vote, if you want 100% of people to go vote.

Wow! "Maybe you should go block the streets of London if you don't understand how democracy works."

Calling myself the most handsome man in America doesn't make it so.

The same about the Brits saying their political system is democracy.

[tonglen]

I get what it is youre saying about the Thai people not voting again for Thaksin or his ilk, but I think you may be wrong.

I will not say what the Thai people will do because I lack some of the years of experience as others have here.

However, I WILL comment on the poor memories of those in the USA. We have horrible recollection - as if we ever had collection to then again RE-collect it.

Memories fade with partisan lines of ignorance and hatred....."the enemy of my enemy is my friend" mentality.

I hope youre correct in your post.

Hey, Thaksin - yeah you over there or doing your black magic stuff in Burma - the Rice Farmers voted for you. You said (OK so it was your sister - but we know better) "If you vote for ME, I will pay you 15,000 baht per tonne.

You got our votes - now you cheat on the deal.

You are now the EX-head of the Farmers' Association.

You, Thaksin are as bad as Suthep says you are. Your word is dust - Dubai dust. Worth nothing.

All our families in the whole of Issan trusted you - more fools us.

Try to get our votes now - no chance!