Rice-scheme woes not major factor in suicides, Thai agency says

[Oldtimer61]

oooops, this report should have been released by 1st april

[hellodolly]

Here is an example why every western country does not recognise anything from Thailand to do with medical, mental health or any other educational institutions... probably one of the most epic failures, to go with a host of others, in coming out with a factual investigation. Absolute garbage... and the blind trying to manipulate a fast awaking and seeing public.

Why is it that UC Berkley, Stanford, UCLA & USC medical schools send their eye doctors to Thailand to study Lasik surgery?

Because Thailand is using technology that won't be introduced into the US for a few more years...... they are one of the world leaders.

Oh, Thailand also has a fantastic reputation with Plastic surgeons....... they have done some amazing work.

I second that! Plus, most good doctors at hospitals, albeit in Bangkok where they are better paid (and that's what they studied for), have studied in the US or the UK.

In addition, the current scientific investigations occuring at Chula, Mahidol, Khon Kaen and King Monkut's Uni are way ahead of what's happening in many places deemed the best in the world. Marstar, your opinion is garbage..... and manipulates only your own perception.

Well there is no getting around it Thailand does have some excellent doctors.

As for studying the lasic surgery could it be that the equipment is far more efficient here rather than the doctor. The States are not exactly quick on picking up new ideas that they did not think of themselves.

Will be looking at it myself in about three years the doctor tells me any recommendations for Chiang Mai or else where if the price difference isn't to big a difference.

[geriatrickid]

To those who are questioning the competence of Dr Panpimol Wipulakorn, please note that she is the director of the Ranjanukol Institute. The Foundation for Ranjanukul is under the Royal patronage of HRH Princess Niwattana, so I suggest those offering criticism of the competence of the doctor and the supporting staff who reviewed the data, to exercise some sober second thought before attacking the woman.

Dr. Wipulakorn is not a spokesman for the PTP political party. She is apolitical. Not that it matters, but she is part of the "elite" and holds high social status. Her education and background puts her well above those spewing malicious comments on this thread. What matters is that she went into public service because she is a decent and caring person. She accepted a pay scale that is a fraction of what she could make running a private practice catering to the neurotic families of hi-sos. I do not agree with some of her views, but I certainly respect her dedication, her compassion and her work ethic. I am aghast, that so many people who have no idea who she is, are insulting and denigrating her. She is one health professional who has tried to help the intellectually challenged and those suffering with serious genetic illnesses, and she has made a personal sacrifice to help. Have some bloody respect.

Again, I will state, the data she is basing her comparison on in respect to historical data is published and peer reviewed. It is used by Mahidol and other respected medical teaching institutions. In respect to the alleged suicides that she has reviewed, it is based upon the existing post mortems and other supporting information. She is not inventing the debilitating illness that caused one of the deceased to not be in control of his bowels or his bladder. Due to patient privacy rules, she's not allowed to provide the full post mortem data. If she did, I'd expect the same lot criticizing her, would say she violated patient privacy. The financial characteristics that she described, are part and parcel of other characteristics. Multiple factors may have influenced the suicide. To those who wish to claim that the causative factor for the cited suicides was debt in the rice pledging program, I defy you to prove the allegation. You can't. In any given year, there are dozens of people classified as "farmers" who commit suicide. They had health issues, alcoholism and debt before there was a rice pledging program, and they will be committing suicide long after the rice program is binned. General financial status is a contributing factor in some of the suicides and she has stated that. The debt was longstanding and not serviced in some of the cases. It did not suddenly appear in conjunction with the rice pledging program. She hasn't covered anything up.

[Scamper]

" ... the investigation found that nine of them had committed suicide because they owed a large number of informal debts. "

This sentence directly contradicts the conclusion of this crazy report, as do the family accounts of these tragedies. The agency also contradicts itself by pinpointing " nine " farmers from the crowd of protesting farmers in front of the Commerce Industry who they feel might be at risk for depression. Really - only nine ? And why ? Would it not be for exactly the same reasons ? Debt, as a result of not being paid ? This sad, sad report, under the guise of an agency that really ought to know better, does nothing to validate the very real experience and anguish of these farmers and unfortunately everything to play into the narrative of the administration and Kittirat - who has just managed to dry himself off in an encounter with these very same depressed - and justifiably furious - farmers.

Edited February 19, 2014 by Scamper

[Crushdepth]

To those who are questioning the competence of Dr Panpimol Wipulakorn, please note that she is the director of the Ranjanukol Institute. The Foundation for Ranjanukul is under the Royal patronage of HRH Princess Niwattana, so I suggest those offering criticism of the competence of the doctor and the supporting staff who reviewed the data, to exercise some sober second thought before attacking the woman.

Dr. Wipulakorn is not a spokesman for the PTP political party. She is apolitical. Not that it matters, but she is part of the "elite" and holds high social status. Her education and background puts her well above those spewing malicious comments on this thread. What matters is that she went into public service because she is a decent and caring person. She accepted a pay scale that is a fraction of what she could make running a private practice catering to the neurotic families of hi-sos. I do not agree with some of her views, but I certainly respect her dedication, her compassion and her work ethic. I am aghast, that so many people who have no idea who she is, are insulting and denigrating her. She is one health professional who has tried to help the intellectually challenged and those suffering with serious genetic illnesses, and she has made a personal sacrifice to help. Have some bloody respect.

Again, I will state, the data she is basing her comparison on in respect to historical data is published and peer reviewed. It is used by Mahidol and other respected medical teaching institutions. In respect to the alleged suicides that she has reviewed, it is based upon the existing post mortems and other supporting information. She is not inventing the debilitating illness that caused one of the deceased to not be in control of his bowels or his bladder. Due to patient privacy rules, she's not allowed to provide the full post mortem data. If she did, I'd expect the same lot criticizing her, would say she violated patient privacy. The financial characteristics that she described, are part and parcel of other characteristics. Multiple factors may have influenced the suicide. To those who wish to claim that the causative factor for the cited suicides was debt in the rice pledging program, I defy you to prove the allegation. You can't. In any given year, there are dozens of people classified as "farmers" who commit suicide. They had health issues, alcoholism and debt before there was a rice pledging program, and they will be committing suicide long after the rice program is binned. General financial status is a contributing factor in some of the suicides and she has stated that. The debt was longstanding and not serviced in some of the cases. It did not suddenly appear in conjunction with the rice pledging program. She hasn't covered anything up.

Respect? You're the guy apologising for the government over the bodies of dead farmers.

Do think there could be any link between unserviced debts and not having an income for 6 months?

Sent from somewhere in the Pacific

[djjamie]

To those who are questioning the competence of Dr Panpimol Wipulakorn, please note that she is the director of the Ranjanukol Institute. The Foundation for Ranjanukul is under the Royal patronage of HRH Princess Niwattana, so I suggest those offering criticism of the competence of the doctor and the supporting staff who reviewed the data, to exercise some sober second thought before attacking the woman.

Dr. Wipulakorn is not a spokesman for the PTP political party. She is apolitical. Not that it matters, but she is part of the "elite" and holds high social status. Her education and background puts her well above those spewing malicious comments on this thread. What matters is that she went into public service because she is a decent and caring person. She accepted a pay scale that is a fraction of what she could make running a private practice catering to the neurotic families of hi-sos. I do not agree with some of her views, but I certainly respect her dedication, her compassion and her work ethic. I am aghast, that so many people who have no idea who she is, are insulting and denigrating her. She is one health professional who has tried to help the intellectually challenged and those suffering with serious genetic illnesses, and she has made a personal sacrifice to help. Have some bloody respect.

Again, I will state, the data she is basing her comparison on in respect to historical data is published and peer reviewed. It is used by Mahidol and other respected medical teaching institutions. In respect to the alleged suicides that she has reviewed, it is based upon the existing post mortems and other supporting information. She is not inventing the debilitating illness that caused one of the deceased to not be in control of his bowels or his bladder. Due to patient privacy rules, she's not allowed to provide the full post mortem data. If she did, I'd expect the same lot criticizing her, would say she violated patient privacy. The financial characteristics that she described, are part and parcel of other characteristics. Multiple factors may have influenced the suicide. To those who wish to claim that the causative factor for the cited suicides was debt in the rice pledging program, I defy you to prove the allegation. You can't. In any given year, there are dozens of people classified as "farmers" who commit suicide. They had health issues, alcoholism and debt before there was a rice pledging program, and they will be committing suicide long after the rice program is binned. General financial status is a contributing factor in some of the suicides and she has stated that. The debt was longstanding and not serviced in some of the cases. It did not suddenly appear in conjunction with the rice pledging program. She hasn't covered anything up.

She has admitted in the article that 9 committed suicide because of the rice scheme. In a demagogue sort of way though.

The rice farmers families have admitted that the 9 committed suicide because of the rice scheme. In a meek, mourning, sad and a depressed sort of way.

Seems your the only one not accepting her results.

[hellodolly]

To those who are questioning the competence of Dr Panpimol Wipulakorn, please note that she is the director of the Ranjanukol Institute. The Foundation for Ranjanukul is under the Royal patronage of HRH Princess Niwattana, so I suggest those offering criticism of the competence of the doctor and the supporting staff who reviewed the data, to exercise some sober second thought before attacking the woman.

Dr. Wipulakorn is not a spokesman for the PTP political party. She is apolitical. Not that it matters, but she is part of the "elite" and holds high social status. Her education and background puts her well above those spewing malicious comments on this thread. What matters is that she went into public service because she is a decent and caring person. She accepted a pay scale that is a fraction of what she could make running a private practice catering to the neurotic families of hi-sos. I do not agree with some of her views, but I certainly respect her dedication, her compassion and her work ethic. I am aghast, that so many people who have no idea who she is, are insulting and denigrating her. She is one health professional who has tried to help the intellectually challenged and those suffering with serious genetic illnesses, and she has made a personal sacrifice to help. Have some bloody respect.

Again, I will state, the data she is basing her comparison on in respect to historical data is published and peer reviewed. It is used by Mahidol and other respected medical teaching institutions. In respect to the alleged suicides that she has reviewed, it is based upon the existing post mortems and other supporting information. She is not inventing the debilitating illness that caused one of the deceased to not be in control of his bowels or his bladder. Due to patient privacy rules, she's not allowed to provide the full post mortem data. If she did, I'd expect the same lot criticizing her, would say she violated patient privacy. The financial characteristics that she described, are part and parcel of other characteristics. Multiple factors may have influenced the suicide. To those who wish to claim that the causative factor for the cited suicides was debt in the rice pledging program, I defy you to prove the allegation. You can't. In any given year, there are dozens of people classified as "farmers" who commit suicide. They had health issues, alcoholism and debt before there was a rice pledging program, and they will be committing suicide long after the rice program is binned. General financial status is a contributing factor in some of the suicides and she has stated that. The debt was longstanding and not serviced in some of the cases. It did not suddenly appear in conjunction with the rice pledging program. She hasn't covered anything up.

Dr. Wipulakorn is not a spokesman for the PTP political party

and neither are you but it would be hard to see that given the tone of your posts.

[scorecard]

Quote:

"The remaining farmer's suicide could not be linked to the rice-pledging scheme.

"We found that the main risk factors for committing suicide were mental-health problems, physical ailments and family problems. Economic problems caused by large informal debts was also a main factor leading them to commit suicide," Panpimol said."

This is very misleading. Sure there would be no doubt that plenty of farmers, unfortunately, use informal credit / informal loans / borrow from loan sharks.

Now they cannot replay the loans because their due cash from rice pledging is 4 / 6 months late and some doubt about when they will receive their due payments from the government. So some have committed suicide (very sad indeed).

It seems very clear that:

- Their informal debt is a serious problem

- Their lack of funds to pay the informal debt is an even more serious problem, in their eyes. Why can't they repay - simple, failure of the government to pay them their due cash from rice pledging, already 4 to 6? months overdue and with a string of payment & date promises.

[iamariva1957]

Come on! Are they kidding? Do they not see the real issue here? Or are they hiding behind smoke and mirrors to point the blame elsewhere! The government is doing nothing at all except pointing the blame for these deaths to "other causes".

Now... just imagine that you are having some chest pains and the doctor gives you a stress test by putting you on a tread mil to see what your heart will do afterwards. The problem is that it will be fine... for that that was NOT what caused your chest pains in the first place! What caused them was your fear of not being able to pay your bills... NOT WALKING on a tread mil!

Even by the government's own reported numbers there were more deaths by suicide due to the situation of the State not paying what they were supposed to! It was reported that 9 out of the 13 cases that were looked into were due to the lack of funds. But seem to have left out the fact that if you do not have the promised funds then one will have to go elsewhere to get them... "unofficial funds" though they might be and that was the real cause. The government thinks that it was the 'tread mil' (see above) that was the problem. and not the real issues!

The poor will be left behind and made to fend for themselves as is the norm (though it should never be that way). Shame on those in charge! Shame on those that are examining the numbers and the others that think that they are doing good. For they are not at all. For "mental problems", "physical ailments ",and "family problems" can all be caused and magnified beyond their actual levels of impact upon the individual in question by... financial issues. Especially those caused by a government that has no idea what they are doing! As for the fighting/protests... that is just another excuse.

Sure point the blame elsewhere. Walk away for the problem saying that it is someone else's doing and not your problem! Blame the farmers for going to unofficial sources to get the funds to keep their farms going and so help maintain Thai Rice and the countries leadership in that product. Yea...cut your nose off to spite your face! Good plan... Caretakers! NOT!!!

There is a problem that needs to be fixed and right now. There were promises made and so should be kept. Our "Better Angles of Our Nature" (Lincoln, 1861) should be listened to. So to the Caretakers I say... listen to those angels and due your duty to the people of this wonderful country! You can line your pockets later!

[joebrown]

The report on each suicide fails to say who, or how many of these farmers were actually owed money by PTP for pledged rice, at the time of their deaths!. Might just be that this fact had something to do with the farmers' depressive state of mind?? Maybe there was 'no light at the end of the tunnel'. Very sad.

[diehard60]

""We found that the main risk factors for committing suicide were mental-health problems, physical ailments and family problems. Economic problems caused by large informal debts was also a main factor leading them to commit suicide," Panpimol said."

Thank you for your diagnosis, Dr. Panpimol. I also have a mental problem that will make me suicide because of the crap that you mentioned. A typical, familiar, suspicious Pheu Thai comment to save face...

are you a doctor? do you have a degree in THIS field??????

[a99az]

The key word here is "major" so we have farmers committing suicide over the loss. How very sad that a government has to rob the farmers of the little they have, how low can you go?

[spermwhale]

Thailand... the bastion of mental health analysis. Give me a break. I would not put any weight into what any Thai psychologists say about any of this, particularly ones on the government payroll. I doubt they sent anybody to get to the root cause because they're too inept to know even where to start.

[tim armstrong]

If the article wasn't so obviously written for the PTP it might be excused as something written by a first year psych. student. It is professionally incompetent and demonstrates both a complete lack of understanding about suicide and mental health in general. How demeaning, and ignorant of both the farmers who died and the grief now being experienced by their families.

Hi Tim,

I happen to be a first year psychology student. I can't quite see the connection between the article and studying psychology. Would you care to elaborate? Are you suggesting that I am likely to have a complete lack of understanding of suicide and mental health because I'm a psychology student?

You could have chosen a more appropriate simile.

No I'm not, but first year psychology students don't usually get to study mental health and the complex subject of suicide. I have worked and taught in both areas for more than 30 years. The article I referred to showed a lack of knowledge and no understanding of either. Good for you that you are interested in mental health

[SOTIRIOS]

....how pathetic can you get.....

,,,think of the worst compulsive liar you ever met in your life....and multiply it by a few trillion........

...around there.....

[Thai at Heart]

These were not suicides, the government murdered these farmers by proxy. The Mental Health Department's report's purpose is to absolve the government from guilt, but they fail utterly because the "expert" is an idiot.

Have you even bothered to read the data on suicide and its incidence in Thailand?

You call the doctor an idiot. Why? Because you didn't bother to read the data, or the WHO review?

Nothing that the doctor stated was contrary to the published reviews. Why don't you and the other self anointed epidemiologists go and read the data.

from the article:

total of 13 suicides: 9 because of debt. 3 because of disease. 1 no clue at all.

The "expert" said (paraphrasing}: main factors for suicide are mental Health problems, disease and family problems. Economic problems also.

Obviously, in the cases of the farmers, the absolute main reason is debt, no money. And not mental health or disease. The "expert" is whitewashing the government by trying to obscure and minimize the effect of debt.

as for being a self anointed epidemiologist, I take that, and I think it is better than what the government did by creating this epidemic. And it is also better than having been adopted as Dr. Thaksin's geriatric kid.

Having worked in agriculture, all farmers all over the world have debt worries. Its a horrible fact that farmers.kill themselves.

There was zero proven correlation that these debt problems have been caused by the rice debacle, and then to top it off, this idiot doctor just denies the possibility.

All sides raking over tragedy for political point scoring. Disgusting.

[antimedia]

Hang the bastards!

[GeorgeO]

It totally beggars belief what utter bolleux these people come out with. How many pieces of silver did it take for this 'professional' to deliver a message that has been so 'spun' it will be dizzy for decades. Shameful.

Spot on GJ.

Anyone can feel free to accuse me of oversimplifying things here, but if nine out of the thirteen suicides were found to be attributable to informal debts, then the government's failure to pay the farmers what they owed them would seem to be a clear candidate for the primary causal factor....!!

[geriatrickid]

It totally beggars belief what utter bolleux these people come out with. How many pieces of silver did it take for this 'professional' to deliver a message that has been so 'spun' it will be dizzy for decades. Shameful.

Spot on GJ.

Anyone can feel free to accuse me of oversimplifying things here, but if nine out of the thirteen suicides were found to be attributable to informal debts, then the government's failure to pay the farmers what they owed them would seem to be a clear candidate for the primary causal factor....!!

I suggest you go and read the data from previous years, prior to the rice pledging program. There were more farmers killing themselves 20 and 15 years ago than today. Why's that?

The incidence of suicide amongst farmers today is consistent with the historic rate of the past decade. Look at the data. Although still being reviewed(because it takes approx. 2 years for all data to be compiled, reviewed and published), the initial indication is that there was actually a small reduction during the first year of the rice pledging program. What we are seeing now is an adjustment where the rate returns to the historic level of the past decade.

All of a sudden the self proclaimed epidemiologists of Thai Visa have thrown aside the data and come up with their own theory that they expect be accepted as fact because it fits with the political agenda that they have.

[bigbamboo]

It totally beggars belief what utter bolleux these people come out with. How many pieces of silver did it take for this 'professional' to deliver a message that has been so 'spun' it will be dizzy for decades. Shameful.

Spot on GJ.

Anyone can feel free to accuse me of oversimplifying things here, but if nine out of the thirteen suicides were found to be attributable to informal debts, then the government's failure to pay the farmers what they owed them would seem to be a clear candidate for the primary causal factor....!!

I suggest you go and read the data from previous years, prior to the rice pledging program. There were more farmers killing themselves 20 and 15 years ago than today. Why's that?

The incidence of suicide amongst farmers today is consistent with the historic rate of the past decade. Look at the data. Although still being reviewed(because it takes approx. 2 years for all data to be compiled, reviewed and published), the initial indication is that there was actually a small reduction during the first year of the rice pledging program. What we are seeing now is an adjustment where the rate returns to the historic level of the past decade.

All of a sudden the self proclaimed epidemiologists of Thai Visa have thrown aside the data and come up with their own theory that they expect be accepted as fact because it fits with the political agenda that they have.

Well if they are government statistics they must be true.