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We deserve better: it's time to restart Thailand


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Posted

What a bloody hypocrite our Khun Abhisit is. Suthep wants unfettered power - on behalf of his puppetmasters - and Abhisit removed himself from the process. He's not leader of any opposition anymore, he's now just another citizen with delusions of importance.

  • Like 1
Posted

Well to be honest it's been a let down all around, if the PTP had been a better management and didn't lie so much , had a good track record, then all of this protesting would not be happening, their type of governance is nothing short of sub- standard, the people should be disappointed and alarmed ,who can lead the way back is anybody's guess, I have no confidence in the contenders that come to mind , I , personally would give it to the army to sort out , they probably don't want that either, the backlash from the last coup is still ringing in their ears , so where do you go ????? Ah lets have a coup.coffee1.gif

  • Like 2
Posted

Well to be honest it's been a let down all around, if the PTP had been a better management and didn't lie so much , had a good track record, then all of this protesting would not be happening, their type of governance is nothing short of sub- standard, the people should be disappointed and alarmed ,who can lead the way back is anybody's guess, I have no confidence in the contenders that come to mind , I , personally would give it to the army to sort out , they probably don't want that either, the backlash from the last coup is still ringing in their ears , so where do you go ????? Ah lets have a coup.coffee1.gif

Indeed. Abhisit can't even beat this lot when half have them have been accused or proven to be corrupt. Half the rice farmers are penniless.

As politicians go, he really is useless.

Posted

Can't restart Thailand until the rule of law is enforced. From petty crime to government. corruption.

Reform the police and the rest should fall into place.

Abhisit like Thainess apparently. Isn't red bull daddy a big pro-democrat. Says it all really.

No spine. No principles. No willingness to embrace change or.movement. Were all right luv. Just lovely jubbly as we are. Thainess.

Marvellous old boy.

  • Like 2
Posted

Dr Surin should be the next Democrat leader.

Experienced, intellligent and down to earth, he can connect with the man in the street unlike Apisit.

Apisit has an excellent grasp of the issues, he's articulate and a good debater but he seems too stubborn, too confident in his own judgements

.For example he still uses Korbsak, a man who utterly failed him in the last election campaign.

Time for an overhaul in Thailand's oldest political party.

  • Like 1
Posted

Dr Surin should be the next Democrat leader.

Experienced, intellligent and down to earth, he can connect with the man in the street unlike Apisit.

Apisit has an excellent grasp of the issues, he's articulate and a good debater but he seems too stubborn, too confident in his own judgements

.For example he still uses Korbsak, a man who utterly failed him in the last election campaign.

Time for an overhaul in Thailand's oldest political party.

I agree except for the fact that u think abhisit grasps the issue.

Issue is, he is completely unelectable, for the reason that he cannot grasp the poor mans issue.

Land reform, education, subsidy, health care, etc etc.

Ahbisit has been a day late and a pound short since thaksin came along.

Posted (edited)

Dr Surin should be the next Democrat leader.

Experienced, intellligent and down to earth, he can connect with the man in the street unlike Apisit.

Apisit has an excellent grasp of the issues, he's articulate and a good debater but he seems too stubborn, too confident in his own judgements

.For example he still uses Korbsak, a man who utterly failed him in the last election campaign.

Time for an overhaul in Thailand's oldest political party.

blink.png you are kidding I think. He is however far better option than abhisit.

Edited by englishoak
Posted

Instead of demonizing the man try to READ the article and see why he removed himself from the democratic process. READ the article and understand the points he is making.

All that is ever spouted is elections, elections, elections. Democracy is not just elections. Yet people refuse too admit it. The UDD supporters on this site cannot even tell me what the principles of democracy are. Not one. They change the subject, demonize me or argue an unrelated fact. All great traits of a demagogue, but unfortunately not a trait of someone that yearns for democracy.

Abhisit has made it pretty clear the abuses under the current structure. Do the people want abuse of power, corruption, failed policies and a govt that said "if you don't vote for us we refuse you our services". When people vote for abuse of power, corruption, failed policies and a govt that saidabuse of power, corruption, failed policies and a govt that said "if you don't vote for us we refuse you our services" they are voting for a failed state. Even though there was an election, that is not a democracy. It will eventually be a failed state. Reform is needed to ensure any future government cannot do the abuse whether it be PTP or DEM's or any sitting government.

Abhisit can be called a street thug or any other demonizing word that makes you feel that your supporting a righteous "team" while the opposition are evil and fascist, but at the end of the day that street thug is a citizen of Thailand that makes a dam_n factual point that opposition in their arrogance and holier than thou attitude dismiss as it does the overwhelming majority of Thailand which was shown in the last election. Without extrapolating the figures and juggling numbers an overwhelming majority do want reform. An overwhelming majority do want elections. An overwhelming majority understand that voting is a gateway of the democratic process that allows a government to prove to the people it is democratic. An overwhelming majority DO NOT think that abuse of power, corruption and a govt that says "if you don't vote for us we refuse you our services". Obviously you do because you defend it no, you ignore it and spout elections.

If I had to chose a repressive regime with dictatorial tendencies or a democratic street thug. I will choose the latter any day.

Which overwhelming majority wants reform? Reform of what?

Army, parliament, senate, civil service, police, education.

Where should it start, because so far, after months, there has been virtually zero meat hung on these bones of reform. To really reform Thailand would remove the very vestiges of Thainess that Abhisit longs for.

Equality, fairness and the rule of law. Didn't he use a shonky document himself ? He's no better than any of them.

Posted

They aren't watching. Apparently the problem is sooooo complex, no simple minded journalist can understand that Thai politics is a corrupt mess.

And as for a bloke who opted out of the recent elections moaning about the situation, I would suggest that he has ceased to be part of the solution by downing tools.

Corrupt politics isn't the reason for this mess. Suthep, leading the fight against corruption, is testimony to that.

This conflict goes far beyond politics.

Posted

Abhisit, your country has exactly the political system it deserves - both your countries.

"We have an educated, professional workforce." cheesy.gif friends of mine in manufacturing in Thailand bemoan the lack of skilled workforce and that the factories here remain competitive only due to the slave-wage economy.

The list of falsehoods goes on; the article probably sounded good to an audience that would never set foot in this country.

  • Like 1
Posted

Instead of demonizing the man try to READ the article and see why he removed himself from the democratic process. READ the article and understand the points he is making.

All that is ever spouted is elections, elections, elections. Democracy is not just elections. Yet people refuse too admit it. The UDD supporters on this site cannot even tell me what the principles of democracy are. Not one. They change the subject, demonize me or argue an unrelated fact. All great traits of a demagogue, but unfortunately not a trait of someone that yearns for democracy.

Abhisit has made it pretty clear the abuses under the current structure. Do the people want abuse of power, corruption, failed policies and a govt that said "if you don't vote for us we refuse you our services". When people vote for abuse of power, corruption, failed policies and a govt that saidabuse of power, corruption, failed policies and a govt that said "if you don't vote for us we refuse you our services" they are voting for a failed state. Even though there was an election, that is not a democracy. It will eventually be a failed state. Reform is needed to ensure any future government cannot do the abuse whether it be PTP or DEM's or any sitting government.

Abhisit can be called a street thug or any other demonizing word that makes you feel that your supporting a righteous "team" while the opposition are evil and fascist, but at the end of the day that street thug is a citizen of Thailand that makes a dam_n factual point that opposition in their arrogance and holier than thou attitude dismiss as it does the overwhelming majority of Thailand which was shown in the last election. Without extrapolating the figures and juggling numbers an overwhelming majority do want reform. An overwhelming majority do want elections. An overwhelming majority understand that voting is a gateway of the democratic process that allows a government to prove to the people it is democratic. An overwhelming majority DO NOT think that abuse of power, corruption and a govt that says "if you don't vote for us we refuse you our services". Obviously you do because you defend it no, you ignore it and spout elections.

If I had to chose a repressive regime with dictatorial tendencies or a democratic street thug. I will choose the latter any day.

Which overwhelming majority wants reform? Reform of what?

Army, parliament, senate, civil service, police, education.

Where should it start, because so far, after months, there has been virtually zero meat hung on these bones of reform. To really reform Thailand would remove the very vestiges of Thainess that Abhisit longs for.

Equality, fairness and the rule of law. Didn't he use a shonky document himself ? He's no better than any of them.

And this is why you support the regime. You don't even understand why reform is needed and I won't be the one to sit you down on my lap and spell it out to you so you understand. If you think that ignoring a voter base because they didn't vote for the regime is democratic then there is no hope for you now.

  • Like 1
Posted

Generally a pretty good screed from Abhisit, showing the benefits of his Eton - Oxford education and political nous on the international front. Where he fails, is pushing the right buttons on the domestic front to rise above the fray and show himself to be a statesman who can heal over the festering sores that have formed in Thailand these past few years. The partial use of Lincoln's address on "government of the people, for the people, by the people" rings kind of hollow in this case, especially given his mention in the first paragraph that "our future lies in the hands of the few" and the Democrats continual defence of a system of governance that benefits the few and at the expense of the masses. All the same, he is streaks ahead Thaksin (and entire PTP party) in terms of demonstrating intelligence and insight through his writing (surely they would have to rely on the paid services of Robert Amsterdam to come up with a similar opinion piece), and in an unedifying field, he still stands out as the only respectable candidate for future PM. Would that there be someone better standing up to the plate, but there ain't, so Abhisit scrapes through by default.

Read it again. He is meaning that the country's future as it currently sits is in the hands of a few. He indicated elsewhere in the article that it belongs in the hands of all and has accepted that the Democrats are as much as fault with the curent situation.

Agree thou it is a good reflection of the current situation.

And as for those who crucify him for his perceived past short comings I would defy any of them to run a rag tag minority team not only successfully but even scraping by where part of the team are only in for their own gains, and where those members of the team who are in there for the right reasons of the betterment of the nation and not their own pockets and family, their attention is being heavily averted by a systematic flank attack. I would suggest that if he had a house majority as enjoyed by any of the Thaksin clones then he would have been very successful in advancing Thailand.

Regardless I do not see anybody being able to resolve this mess and it is needing to play out. The reality is all the scum that pass for thai politicians need to carry on at the rate they are currently going to destroy their ever diminishing politicial face once and for all in the eyes of the thai public regardless of the cost to Thailand socially, economically and politically until such time as a power vaccum exists for the Army to finally step in under the instruction of a higher authority. Next time around hopefully the Army seeks assistance not from politicians but the third of thai's who have sufficent morals and values to be above accepting corruption to not only reset the constitution but also reform where once elections do occur again that politicians have a lawful consequence in plus for their corrupt and incompetent mafia family carry ons.

  • Like 1
Posted

They aren't watching. Apparently the problem is sooooo complex, no simple minded journalist can understand that Thai politics is a corrupt mess.

And as for a bloke who opted out of the recent elections moaning about the situation, I would suggest that he has ceased to be part of the solution by downing tools.

Corrupt politics isn't the reason for this mess. Suthep, leading the fight against corruption, is testimony to that.

This conflict goes far beyond politics.

Well I didn't have space for a book.

Posted

Instead of demonizing the man try to READ the article and see why he removed himself from the democratic process. READ the article and understand the points he is making.

All that is ever spouted is elections, elections, elections. Democracy is not just elections. Yet people refuse too admit it. The UDD supporters on this site cannot even tell me what the principles of democracy are. Not one. They change the subject, demonize me or argue an unrelated fact. All great traits of a demagogue, but unfortunately not a trait of someone that yearns for democracy.

Abhisit has made it pretty clear the abuses under the current structure. Do the people want abuse of power, corruption, failed policies and a govt that said "if you don't vote for us we refuse you our services". When people vote for abuse of power, corruption, failed policies and a govt that saidabuse of power, corruption, failed policies and a govt that said "if you don't vote for us we refuse you our services" they are voting for a failed state. Even though there was an election, that is not a democracy. It will eventually be a failed state. Reform is needed to ensure any future government cannot do the abuse whether it be PTP or DEM's or any sitting government.

Abhisit can be called a street thug or any other demonizing word that makes you feel that your supporting a righteous "team" while the opposition are evil and fascist, but at the end of the day that street thug is a citizen of Thailand that makes a dam_n factual point that opposition in their arrogance and holier than thou attitude dismiss as it does the overwhelming majority of Thailand which was shown in the last election. Without extrapolating the figures and juggling numbers an overwhelming majority do want reform. An overwhelming majority do want elections. An overwhelming majority understand that voting is a gateway of the democratic process that allows a government to prove to the people it is democratic. An overwhelming majority DO NOT think that abuse of power, corruption and a govt that says "if you don't vote for us we refuse you our services". Obviously you do because you defend it no, you ignore it and spout elections.

If I had to chose a repressive regime with dictatorial tendencies or a democratic street thug. I will choose the latter any day.

Which overwhelming majority wants reform? Reform of what?

Army, parliament, senate, civil service, police, education.

Where should it start, because so far, after months, there has been virtually zero meat hung on these bones of reform. To really reform Thailand would remove the very vestiges of Thainess that Abhisit longs for.

Equality, fairness and the rule of law. Didn't he use a shonky document himself ? He's no better than any of them.

And this is why you support the regime. You don't even understand why reform is needed and I won't be the one to sit you down on my lap and spell it out to you so you understand. If you think that ignoring a voter base because they didn't vote for the regime is democratic then there is no hope for you now.

Do you really think that they will simply remove thaksin, and then reform it and go back to democracy?

Please don't tell me you trust any of these people. When was the last Thai politician or pooyai who have up some control, power or money for the good of the country?

  • Like 1
Posted

This article first appeared in The Financial Times.

When ? I'm a subscriber to the FT and havn't seen that article there.

Our country has tremendous potential. With our unique history in Southeast Asia as being a country that was never colonised, we have undergone a revolution of development, teetering on the edge of being a "developed market". The second largest economy in Asean after Indonesia and geographically at the centre of continental Asean, we have much to gain from the establishment of the Asean economic community next year.

Modesty would be a good start Mark .... interesting that hes citing much to gain from rather than much to give the Asean economic community as a partner.Teetering on the edge is a good description of where the country is at the moment though, but its on the edge of stability rather than a developed market right now.

We have an educated, professional workforce. Our country is a hub for automotive manufacturing, technology, services, leisure and the creative industries. It is an agricultural tour de force. Behind our famous Thai smile, there is a strong sense of national pride, a determination to succeed, a passion to preserve what we call "Thai-ness", and the will and ability to continue to grow, develop and perform, both nationally and globally

Such a hub of everything here wow,the passion of preserving Thai-ness part is interesting, just what could that mean i wonder ? whistling.gif

Using Google I see that this article was an opinion piece in the Bangkok Post today. It does not refer to the financial times.

  • Like 1
Posted

Abhisit abrogated the right to sound statesmanlike the day he manned the protest barriers with Suthep. He is nothing better than a street brawler who is trying to overthrow one democratically elected government and prevent the reelection of another. The force of his party's argument is so weak that a majority of Thais wont vote for him and he has resorted to physically preventing people from voting. He and his friends in the Ruling Elite are causing the current turmoil in Thailand. They need to go home, announce that they will participate in fresh elections and then the democratic process will be restored. The people will then decide who they want to govern them and if they decide its a party led by the Shinawatra's thats their democratic right. If they support the rice pledging scheme so be it. Abhisit will never be respected and will have his Churchillian speeches scoffed at, because he has abandoned democracy simply because the majority wont vote fro him.

I disagree. Read the article and you will see he is advocating an independent reform process:

Quote//

..........we need to face the reality that only someone credible and accepted by all sides can lead the reform process and manage the short transition to new elections in which everyone participates. That someone is clearly not the current government, the protest leaders nor the Democrat Party.//

This is a clear statement!

Slice it up any which way, this is the only way out for the country. I hope and pray a new emerging middle of the road party will emerge that can adopt some of the good from both red and yellow, and reject all of the bad.

I think mainstream Thais already acknowledge that the two main parties that are responsible for decades of political impasse have had their day. The farmers also appear to be understanding a little more about thai politics and the need for change.

The protest movement is not about Suthep, it is about mainstream Thais demanding better from their politicians. Even Suthep realises his day is over; he will have no choice but to step aside once reforms are in progress.

A new emerging party will surely evolve led by someone with clean hands.

Red and Yellow will play their part in the new order, that is democracy where healthy law abiding opposition is an essential constituent. Abhisit acknowledges this. Yingluck goes not.

  • Like 2
Posted

Instead of demonizing the man try to READ the article and see why he removed himself from the democratic process. READ the article and understand the points he is making.

All that is ever spouted is elections, elections, elections. Democracy is not just elections. Yet people refuse too admit it. The UDD supporters on this site cannot even tell me what the principles of democracy are. Not one. They change the subject, demonize me or argue an unrelated fact. All great traits of a demagogue, but unfortunately not a trait of someone that yearns for democracy.

Abhisit has made it pretty clear the abuses under the current structure. Do the people want abuse of power, corruption, failed policies and a govt that said "if you don't vote for us we refuse you our services". When people vote for abuse of power, corruption, failed policies and a govt that said "if you don't vote for us we refuse you our services" they are voting for a failed state. Even though there was an election, that is not a democracy. It will eventually be a failed state. Reform is needed to ensure any future government cannot do the abuse whether it be PTP or DEM's or any sitting government.

Abhisit can be called a street thug or any other demonizing word that makes you feel that your supporting a righteous "team" while the opposition are evil and fascist, but at the end of the day that street thug is a citizen of Thailand that makes a dam_n factual point that opposition in their arrogance and holier than thou attitude dismiss as it does the overwhelming majority of Thailand which was shown in the last election to not support the PTP. Without extrapolating the figures and juggling numbers an overwhelming majority do want reform. An overwhelming majority do want free and fair elections. An overwhelming majority understand that voting is a gateway of the democratic process that allows a government to prove to the people it is democratic. An overwhelming majority DO NOT think that abuse of power, corruption and a govt that says "if you don't vote for us we refuse you our services". Obviously you do because you defend it no, you ignore it and spout elections.

If I had to chose a repressive regime with dictatorial tendencies or a democratic street thug. I will choose the latter any day.

The crux of your whole abhisit hagiography above is in your last paragraph which begins

"If I had to choose"

This Oxford educated hyper intelligent best thing to hit Thailand since marmite became available, "politician" (I'm joking about abhisit but not the marmite) is responsible for denying the Thai citizen that choice.

He has taken his party out of the democratic election process with his petulant boycott thus denying dem party supporters their choice and is actively supporting his former deputy who is frantically trying to stop anybody from voting and therefore taking away their choice.

This failed politician does not deserve to have a platform for his myopic vision of what is best for Thailand.

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