Popular Post webfact Posted February 19, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted February 19, 2014 OPINIONWe deserve better: it's time to restart ThailandAbhisit VejjajivaAn anti-government demonstrator calls for calm amid a confrontation between riot police and protesters in Bangkok on Tuesday.//EPAOnly someone credible and accepted by all sides can lead the reform process and manage the short transition to new elections in which everyone participatesBANGKOK: -- Once more the world watches Thailand and what looks to be a never-ending stalemate: powerful protests, wanton random acts of violence, divisive and hateful content in our press and social media. The Thai people have been through this cycle of failed government for too long. Our future lies in the hands of the few, whilst the many continue to question where this will lead us. We deserve better.Our country has tremendous potential. With our unique history in Southeast Asia as being a country that was never colonised, we have undergone a revolution of development, teetering on the edge of being a "developed market". The second largest economy in Asean after Indonesia and geographically at the centre of continental Asean, we have much to gain from the establishment of the Asean economic community next year.We have an educated, professional workforce. Our country is a hub for automotive manufacturing, technology, services, leisure and the creative industries. It is an agricultural tour de force. Behind our famous Thai smile, there is a strong sense of national pride, a determination to succeed, a passion to preserve what we call "Thai-ness", and the will and ability to continue to grow, develop and perform, both nationally and globally.Yet it is the politics that has failed us. What is happening on the streets of Bangkok today is an irrefutable demonstration that the Thai people believe they deserve a better system. As the leader of the Democrat Party, I must share the blame for the failed politics, but at the same time I cannot shy away from my responsibilities to help lead the country from the current stalemate and I urge all political leaders including the current prime minister and all the political parties to do likewise. We must never forget that our claim to be "by the people and for the people" means our first duty is to serve the Thai people. We have a moral duty to "do the right thing".Despite our differences, we should all agree on some key principles. We want to preserve our democracy, so there must be no coups and all violence must be condemned and stopped. We must all demand progress in bringing to account the perpetrators of over 30 incidents of violence against protesters and opposition leaders in the last few months. And while we can agree on condemning voter obstruction, we must also protect the right of Thais to protest peacefully, for such a right is surely one of the hallmarks of democracy.For the country to move ahead, we need to understand the grievances of the people protesting on the streets and those whose protest is registered with a no-vote or by simply not voting in the recent snap election. Only then can we draw up a roadmap for the future of the country. Such a roadmap must include a return to free and fair elections, accepted by all sides, and a clear, credible commitment to irreversible and comprehensive reforms.So why are we in this political deadlock? Why have millions taken to the streets? Why was there a boycott of the elections and why did an overwhelming majority of eligible voters who could go to vote unimpeded refuse to do so or actively submitted a no-vote? The answers to these questions will enable us to identify the needed components for the roadmap.The trigger for the unrest was the government's attempt to pass an amnesty bill that permitted the return of a fugitive, self-exiled former prime minister, whitewash his crimes of corruption and return Bt46 billion of assets to him. This same administration was subsequently found guilty of manipulating votes and of fraud in Parliament. When the courts announced the verdict, the administration refused to accept it.Adding to these woes now is the failure of the rice-pledging scheme. At least one million Thai farmers are waiting for payment for their last crop, with many payments outstanding from October last year. The policy, which promised to pay farmers far above the market price for their rice, was doomed from the start. We Democrats said then and we see now that it would not and has not worked - as the IMF, respected academics and many others did. Costing over Bt200 billion a year in losses, less than half of which benefits farmers, as well as losing the country's status as the world's top rice exporter, the scheme is also full of corruption and the National Anti-Corruption Commission is now expected to bring formal charges against caretaker Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra for her role in the scheme later this month. Failure to pay the farmers due to the lack of proceeds from the sale of the government rice stock adds to the economic woes caused by the failure of the subsidised first car scheme, the drop in exports and, most recently, the drop in tourism after the declaration of the state of emergency.People protest because they are unsure their needs will be acknowledged. Thais are protesting against corruption. They are protesting against abuses of power. They are protesting against failed populist policies. They no longer trust politicians and the political process, including elections which they do not believe can be free and fair, given the intimidation against political opposition, the courts and all institutions that provide checks and balance over the last few years by government supporters, the police and the Department of Special Investigations. They can no longer tolerate "politics as usual" where an elected government abuses the democratic process and institutions to put itself above the law. Where else in the world have we seen a democratically elected government attempt to pass a law to whitewash corruption crimes of members of the leader's family? Where else can we find a government that publicly says it refuses to help people, denying them access to government programmes because they did not vote for the parties in power?That is why we and an overwhelming majority refused to participate in elections designed to legitimise the continuation of these abusive practices.The current protest is not a Democrat Party protest. An Asia Foundation survey found that two-thirds of protesters have never participated in political demonstrations before. It is a protest of the people and they deserve the right to reform. We in the Democrat Party agree with their right to protest and their right to reform. We may not agree with their proposed means to achieve reform and we do not wish to see democracy suspended. But we wholeheartedly agree with the need for comprehensive reform to rid the system of corruption and abuses, to give the people honest and effective governments from democratic elections, governments who remain democratically accountable after elections. Only such reforms can guarantee responsible national, social and effective economic management that does not jeopardise the country's and our children's future. This is what Thailand and the Thai people deserve.Yet reforms cannot begin with this government's plan to continue with these sham elections. This will take months and may lead to further violence and ultimately fail to fill a quorum for Parliament or even be unlawful. Likewise, we need to face the reality that only someone credible and accepted by all sides can lead the reform process and manage the short transition to new elections in which everyone participates. That someone is clearly not the current government, the protest leaders nor the Democrat Party.The country cannot afford to lose more time. Every day the stalemate continues means a loss of opportunity for the economy, the country and the people. It's time to chart an alternative course. Thailand has proved resilient in the past, bouncing back from economic and political crises. The country can surely turn the new-found energy and unprecedented level of political awareness and engagement into strong foundations for a stronger and better system.Political leaders must be the first to move. It is time for the government to engage others. So many groups have been working on reforms - the business community, NGOs, the Political Development Council, to mention a few. The aforementioned Asia Foundation survey also found two-thirds of protesters are open to ideas of compromise. On our part, the Democrat Party is ready and willing to play a constructive role. It really is time to restart Thailand.Abhisit Vejjajiva is leader of the Democrat Party. This article first appeared in The Financial Times. -- The Nation 2014-02-20 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post zydeco Posted February 19, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted February 19, 2014 One correction. I don't think the world is watching. It's barely noticing. Turn on the news, and it's all Ukraine and Olympics. Whatever happens, here, goes right under the radar, for the most part. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Thai at Heart Posted February 19, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted February 19, 2014 They aren't watching. Apparently the problem is sooooo complex, no simple minded journalist can understand that Thai politics is a corrupt mess. And as for a bloke who opted out of the recent elections moaning about the situation, I would suggest that he has ceased to be part of the solution by downing tools. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
focus27 Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Abhisit, you have exactly the politics your country deserves - both of them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snig27 Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 What a bloody hypocrite our Khun Abhisit is. Suthep wants unfettered power - on behalf of his puppetmasters - and Abhisit removed himself from the process. He's not leader of any opposition anymore, he's now just another citizen with delusions of importance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Somtamnication Posted February 20, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted February 20, 2014 Clearly, the only way to fix this is colonization. (ducking) 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post millwall_fan Posted February 20, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted February 20, 2014 Abhisit abrogated the right to sound statesmanlike the day he manned the protest barriers with Suthep. He is nothing better than a street brawler who is trying to overthrow one democratically elected government and prevent the reelection of another. The force of his party's argument is so weak that a majority of Thais wont vote for him and he has resorted to physically preventing people from voting. He and his friends in the Ruling Elite are causing the current turmoil in Thailand. They need to go home, announce that they will participate in fresh elections and then the democratic process will be restored. The people will then decide who they want to govern them and if they decide its a party led by the Shinawatra's thats their democratic right. If they support the rice pledging scheme so be it. Abhisit will never be respected and will have his Churchillian speeches scoffed at, because he has abandoned democracy simply because the majority wont vote fro him. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Clearly, the only way to fix this is colonization. (ducking) It couldn't be politically worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post plachon Posted February 20, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted February 20, 2014 Generally a pretty good screed from Abhisit, showing the benefits of his Eton - Oxford education and political nous on the international front. Where he fails, is pushing the right buttons on the domestic front to rise above the fray and show himself to be a statesman who can heal over the festering sores that have formed in Thailand these past few years. The partial use of Lincoln's address on "government of the people, for the people, by the people" rings kind of hollow in this case, especially given his mention in the first paragraph that "our future lies in the hands of the few" and the Democrats continual defence of a system of governance that benefits the few and at the expense of the masses. All the same, he is streaks ahead Thaksin (and entire PTP party) in terms of demonstrating intelligence and insight through his writing (surely they would have to rely on the paid services of Robert Amsterdam to come up with a similar opinion piece), and in an unedifying field, he still stands out as the only respectable candidate for future PM. Would that there be someone better standing up to the plate, but there ain't, so Abhisit scrapes through by default. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Thai at Heart Posted February 20, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted February 20, 2014 Generally a pretty good screed from Abhisit, showing the benefits of his Eton - Oxford education and political nous on the international front. Where he fails, is pushing the right buttons on the domestic front to rise above the fray and show himself to be a statesman who can heal over the festering sores that have formed in Thailand these past few years. The partial use of Lincoln's address on "government of the people, for the people, by the people" rings kind of hollow in this case, especially given his mention in the first paragraph that "our future lies in the hands of the few" and the Democrats continual defence of a system of governance that benefits the few and at the expense of the masses. All the same, he is streaks ahead Thaksin (and entire PTP party) in terms of demonstrating intelligence and insight through his writing (surely they would have to rely on the paid services of Robert Amsterdam to come up with a similar opinion piece), and in an unedifying field, he still stands out as the only respectable candidate for future PM. Would that there be someone better standing up to the plate, but there ain't, so Abhisit scrapes through by default. Its such a shame he lacks any political principles whatsoever. Although its good to see that he has been laid bare for all to see. He is the worst type of politician. The flip flopper, the wolf in lambs clothing, the fibber. He has no idea what he wants Thailand to become, other than he knows that Thaksin threatens him and his position. He is the champagne socialist, the compassionate conservative, the undemocratic democrat. All ghastly concepts. I don't know where he learnt to behave like this, but Eton would probably like to disown him. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post englishoak Posted February 20, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) This article first appeared in The Financial Times. When ? I'm a subscriber to the FT and havn't seen that article there. Our country has tremendous potential. With our unique history in Southeast Asia as being a country that was never colonised, we have undergone a revolution of development, teetering on the edge of being a "developed market". The second largest economy in Asean after Indonesia and geographically at the centre of continental Asean, we have much to gain from the establishment of the Asean economic community next year. Modesty would be a good start Mark .... interesting that hes citing much to gain from rather than much to give the Asean economic community as a partner.Teetering on the edge is a good description of where the country is at the moment though, but its on the edge of stability rather than a developed market right now. We have an educated, professional workforce. Our country is a hub for automotive manufacturing, technology, services, leisure and the creative industries. It is an agricultural tour de force. Behind our famous Thai smile, there is a strong sense of national pride, a determination to succeed, a passion to preserve what we call "Thai-ness", and the will and ability to continue to grow, develop and perform, both nationally and globally Such a hub of everything here wow,the passion of preserving Thai-ness part is interesting, just what could that mean i wonder ? Edited February 20, 2014 by englishoak 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chainarong Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Well to be honest it's been a let down all around, if the PTP had been a better management and didn't lie so much , had a good track record, then all of this protesting would not be happening, their type of governance is nothing short of sub- standard, the people should be disappointed and alarmed ,who can lead the way back is anybody's guess, I have no confidence in the contenders that come to mind , I , personally would give it to the army to sort out , they probably don't want that either, the backlash from the last coup is still ringing in their ears , so where do you go ????? Ah lets have a coup. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Well to be honest it's been a let down all around, if the PTP had been a better management and didn't lie so much , had a good track record, then all of this protesting would not be happening, their type of governance is nothing short of sub- standard, the people should be disappointed and alarmed ,who can lead the way back is anybody's guess, I have no confidence in the contenders that come to mind , I , personally would give it to the army to sort out , they probably don't want that either, the backlash from the last coup is still ringing in their ears , so where do you go ????? Ah lets have a coup. Indeed. Abhisit can't even beat this lot when half have them have been accused or proven to be corrupt. Half the rice farmers are penniless. As politicians go, he really is useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post hansgruber Posted February 20, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted February 20, 2014 Can't restart Thailand until the rule of law is enforced. From petty crime to government. corruption. Reform the police and the rest should fall into place. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Can't restart Thailand until the rule of law is enforced. From petty crime to government. corruption. Reform the police and the rest should fall into place. Abhisit like Thainess apparently. Isn't red bull daddy a big pro-democrat. Says it all really. No spine. No principles. No willingness to embrace change or.movement. Were all right luv. Just lovely jubbly as we are. Thainess. Marvellous old boy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siripon Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Dr Surin should be the next Democrat leader. Experienced, intellligent and down to earth, he can connect with the man in the street unlike Apisit. Apisit has an excellent grasp of the issues, he's articulate and a good debater but he seems too stubborn, too confident in his own judgements .For example he still uses Korbsak, a man who utterly failed him in the last election campaign. Time for an overhaul in Thailand's oldest political party. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post djjamie Posted February 20, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) Instead of demonizing the man try to READ the article and see why he removed himself from the democratic process. READ the article and understand the points he is making. All that is ever spouted is elections, elections, elections. Democracy is not just elections. Yet people refuse too admit it. The UDD supporters on this site cannot even tell me what the principles of democracy are. Not one. They change the subject, demonize me or argue an unrelated fact. All great traits of a demagogue, but unfortunately not a trait of someone that yearns for democracy. Abhisit has made it pretty clear the abuses under the current structure. Do the people want abuse of power, corruption, failed policies and a govt that said "if you don't vote for us we refuse you our services". When people vote for abuse of power, corruption, failed policies and a govt that said "if you don't vote for us we refuse you our services" they are voting for a failed state. Even though there was an election, that is not a democracy. It will eventually be a failed state. Reform is needed to ensure any future government cannot do the abuse whether it be PTP or DEM's or any sitting government. Abhisit can be called a street thug or any other demonizing word that makes you feel that your supporting a righteous "team" while the opposition are evil and fascist, but at the end of the day that street thug is a citizen of Thailand that makes a dam_n factual point that opposition in their arrogance and holier than thou attitude dismiss as it does the overwhelming majority of Thailand which was shown in the last election to not support the PTP. Without extrapolating the figures and juggling numbers an overwhelming majority do want reform. An overwhelming majority do want free and fair elections. An overwhelming majority understand that voting is a gateway of the democratic process that allows a government to prove to the people it is democratic. An overwhelming majority DO NOT think that abuse of power, corruption and a govt that says "if you don't vote for us we refuse you our services" is democracy. Obviously you do because you defend it no, you ignore it and spout elections. If I had to chose a repressive regime with dictatorial tendencies or a democratic street thug. I will choose the latter any day. Edited February 20, 2014 by djjamie 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Dr Surin should be the next Democrat leader. Experienced, intellligent and down to earth, he can connect with the man in the street unlike Apisit. Apisit has an excellent grasp of the issues, he's articulate and a good debater but he seems too stubborn, too confident in his own judgements .For example he still uses Korbsak, a man who utterly failed him in the last election campaign. Time for an overhaul in Thailand's oldest political party. I agree except for the fact that u think abhisit grasps the issue. Issue is, he is completely unelectable, for the reason that he cannot grasp the poor mans issue. Land reform, education, subsidy, health care, etc etc. Ahbisit has been a day late and a pound short since thaksin came along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
englishoak Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) Dr Surin should be the next Democrat leader. Experienced, intellligent and down to earth, he can connect with the man in the street unlike Apisit. Apisit has an excellent grasp of the issues, he's articulate and a good debater but he seems too stubborn, too confident in his own judgements .For example he still uses Korbsak, a man who utterly failed him in the last election campaign. Time for an overhaul in Thailand's oldest political party. you are kidding I think. He is however far better option than abhisit. Edited February 20, 2014 by englishoak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Instead of demonizing the man try to READ the article and see why he removed himself from the democratic process. READ the article and understand the points he is making. All that is ever spouted is elections, elections, elections. Democracy is not just elections. Yet people refuse too admit it. The UDD supporters on this site cannot even tell me what the principles of democracy are. Not one. They change the subject, demonize me or argue an unrelated fact. All great traits of a demagogue, but unfortunately not a trait of someone that yearns for democracy. Abhisit has made it pretty clear the abuses under the current structure. Do the people want abuse of power, corruption, failed policies and a govt that said "if you don't vote for us we refuse you our services". When people vote for abuse of power, corruption, failed policies and a govt that saidabuse of power, corruption, failed policies and a govt that said "if you don't vote for us we refuse you our services" they are voting for a failed state. Even though there was an election, that is not a democracy. It will eventually be a failed state. Reform is needed to ensure any future government cannot do the abuse whether it be PTP or DEM's or any sitting government. Abhisit can be called a street thug or any other demonizing word that makes you feel that your supporting a righteous "team" while the opposition are evil and fascist, but at the end of the day that street thug is a citizen of Thailand that makes a dam_n factual point that opposition in their arrogance and holier than thou attitude dismiss as it does the overwhelming majority of Thailand which was shown in the last election. Without extrapolating the figures and juggling numbers an overwhelming majority do want reform. An overwhelming majority do want elections. An overwhelming majority understand that voting is a gateway of the democratic process that allows a government to prove to the people it is democratic. An overwhelming majority DO NOT think that abuse of power, corruption and a govt that says "if you don't vote for us we refuse you our services". Obviously you do because you defend it no, you ignore it and spout elections. If I had to chose a repressive regime with dictatorial tendencies or a democratic street thug. I will choose the latter any day. Which overwhelming majority wants reform? Reform of what? Army, parliament, senate, civil service, police, education. Where should it start, because so far, after months, there has been virtually zero meat hung on these bones of reform. To really reform Thailand would remove the very vestiges of Thainess that Abhisit longs for. Equality, fairness and the rule of law. Didn't he use a shonky document himself ? He's no better than any of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt1591 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 They aren't watching. Apparently the problem is sooooo complex, no simple minded journalist can understand that Thai politics is a corrupt mess. And as for a bloke who opted out of the recent elections moaning about the situation, I would suggest that he has ceased to be part of the solution by downing tools. Corrupt politics isn't the reason for this mess. Suthep, leading the fight against corruption, is testimony to that. This conflict goes far beyond politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
focus27 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Abhisit, your country has exactly the political system it deserves - both your countries. "We have an educated, professional workforce." friends of mine in manufacturing in Thailand bemoan the lack of skilled workforce and that the factories here remain competitive only due to the slave-wage economy. The list of falsehoods goes on; the article probably sounded good to an audience that would never set foot in this country. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djjamie Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Instead of demonizing the man try to READ the article and see why he removed himself from the democratic process. READ the article and understand the points he is making. All that is ever spouted is elections, elections, elections. Democracy is not just elections. Yet people refuse too admit it. The UDD supporters on this site cannot even tell me what the principles of democracy are. Not one. They change the subject, demonize me or argue an unrelated fact. All great traits of a demagogue, but unfortunately not a trait of someone that yearns for democracy. Abhisit has made it pretty clear the abuses under the current structure. Do the people want abuse of power, corruption, failed policies and a govt that said "if you don't vote for us we refuse you our services". When people vote for abuse of power, corruption, failed policies and a govt that saidabuse of power, corruption, failed policies and a govt that said "if you don't vote for us we refuse you our services" they are voting for a failed state. Even though there was an election, that is not a democracy. It will eventually be a failed state. Reform is needed to ensure any future government cannot do the abuse whether it be PTP or DEM's or any sitting government. Abhisit can be called a street thug or any other demonizing word that makes you feel that your supporting a righteous "team" while the opposition are evil and fascist, but at the end of the day that street thug is a citizen of Thailand that makes a dam_n factual point that opposition in their arrogance and holier than thou attitude dismiss as it does the overwhelming majority of Thailand which was shown in the last election. Without extrapolating the figures and juggling numbers an overwhelming majority do want reform. An overwhelming majority do want elections. An overwhelming majority understand that voting is a gateway of the democratic process that allows a government to prove to the people it is democratic. An overwhelming majority DO NOT think that abuse of power, corruption and a govt that says "if you don't vote for us we refuse you our services". Obviously you do because you defend it no, you ignore it and spout elections. If I had to chose a repressive regime with dictatorial tendencies or a democratic street thug. I will choose the latter any day. Which overwhelming majority wants reform? Reform of what? Army, parliament, senate, civil service, police, education. Where should it start, because so far, after months, there has been virtually zero meat hung on these bones of reform. To really reform Thailand would remove the very vestiges of Thainess that Abhisit longs for. Equality, fairness and the rule of law. Didn't he use a shonky document himself ? He's no better than any of them. And this is why you support the regime. You don't even understand why reform is needed and I won't be the one to sit you down on my lap and spell it out to you so you understand. If you think that ignoring a voter base because they didn't vote for the regime is democratic then there is no hope for you now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadman Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Generally a pretty good screed from Abhisit, showing the benefits of his Eton - Oxford education and political nous on the international front. Where he fails, is pushing the right buttons on the domestic front to rise above the fray and show himself to be a statesman who can heal over the festering sores that have formed in Thailand these past few years. The partial use of Lincoln's address on "government of the people, for the people, by the people" rings kind of hollow in this case, especially given his mention in the first paragraph that "our future lies in the hands of the few" and the Democrats continual defence of a system of governance that benefits the few and at the expense of the masses. All the same, he is streaks ahead Thaksin (and entire PTP party) in terms of demonstrating intelligence and insight through his writing (surely they would have to rely on the paid services of Robert Amsterdam to come up with a similar opinion piece), and in an unedifying field, he still stands out as the only respectable candidate for future PM. Would that there be someone better standing up to the plate, but there ain't, so Abhisit scrapes through by default. Read it again. He is meaning that the country's future as it currently sits is in the hands of a few. He indicated elsewhere in the article that it belongs in the hands of all and has accepted that the Democrats are as much as fault with the curent situation. Agree thou it is a good reflection of the current situation. And as for those who crucify him for his perceived past short comings I would defy any of them to run a rag tag minority team not only successfully but even scraping by where part of the team are only in for their own gains, and where those members of the team who are in there for the right reasons of the betterment of the nation and not their own pockets and family, their attention is being heavily averted by a systematic flank attack. I would suggest that if he had a house majority as enjoyed by any of the Thaksin clones then he would have been very successful in advancing Thailand. Regardless I do not see anybody being able to resolve this mess and it is needing to play out. The reality is all the scum that pass for thai politicians need to carry on at the rate they are currently going to destroy their ever diminishing politicial face once and for all in the eyes of the thai public regardless of the cost to Thailand socially, economically and politically until such time as a power vaccum exists for the Army to finally step in under the instruction of a higher authority. Next time around hopefully the Army seeks assistance not from politicians but the third of thai's who have sufficent morals and values to be above accepting corruption to not only reset the constitution but also reform where once elections do occur again that politicians have a lawful consequence in plus for their corrupt and incompetent mafia family carry ons. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 They aren't watching. Apparently the problem is sooooo complex, no simple minded journalist can understand that Thai politics is a corrupt mess. And as for a bloke who opted out of the recent elections moaning about the situation, I would suggest that he has ceased to be part of the solution by downing tools. Corrupt politics isn't the reason for this mess. Suthep, leading the fight against corruption, is testimony to that.This conflict goes far beyond politics. Well I didn't have space for a book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Instead of demonizing the man try to READ the article and see why he removed himself from the democratic process. READ the article and understand the points he is making. All that is ever spouted is elections, elections, elections. Democracy is not just elections. Yet people refuse too admit it. The UDD supporters on this site cannot even tell me what the principles of democracy are. Not one. They change the subject, demonize me or argue an unrelated fact. All great traits of a demagogue, but unfortunately not a trait of someone that yearns for democracy. Abhisit has made it pretty clear the abuses under the current structure. Do the people want abuse of power, corruption, failed policies and a govt that said "if you don't vote for us we refuse you our services". When people vote for abuse of power, corruption, failed policies and a govt that saidabuse of power, corruption, failed policies and a govt that said "if you don't vote for us we refuse you our services" they are voting for a failed state. Even though there was an election, that is not a democracy. It will eventually be a failed state. Reform is needed to ensure any future government cannot do the abuse whether it be PTP or DEM's or any sitting government. Abhisit can be called a street thug or any other demonizing word that makes you feel that your supporting a righteous "team" while the opposition are evil and fascist, but at the end of the day that street thug is a citizen of Thailand that makes a dam_n factual point that opposition in their arrogance and holier than thou attitude dismiss as it does the overwhelming majority of Thailand which was shown in the last election. Without extrapolating the figures and juggling numbers an overwhelming majority do want reform. An overwhelming majority do want elections. An overwhelming majority understand that voting is a gateway of the democratic process that allows a government to prove to the people it is democratic. An overwhelming majority DO NOT think that abuse of power, corruption and a govt that says "if you don't vote for us we refuse you our services". Obviously you do because you defend it no, you ignore it and spout elections. If I had to chose a repressive regime with dictatorial tendencies or a democratic street thug. I will choose the latter any day. Which overwhelming majority wants reform? Reform of what?Army, parliament, senate, civil service, police, education. Where should it start, because so far, after months, there has been virtually zero meat hung on these bones of reform. To really reform Thailand would remove the very vestiges of Thainess that Abhisit longs for. Equality, fairness and the rule of law. Didn't he use a shonky document himself ? He's no better than any of them. And this is why you support the regime. You don't even understand why reform is needed and I won't be the one to sit you down on my lap and spell it out to you so you understand. If you think that ignoring a voter base because they didn't vote for the regime is democratic then there is no hope for you now. Do you really think that they will simply remove thaksin, and then reform it and go back to democracy? Please don't tell me you trust any of these people. When was the last Thai politician or pooyai who have up some control, power or money for the good of the country? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrry Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 This article first appeared in The Financial Times. When ? I'm a subscriber to the FT and havn't seen that article there. Our country has tremendous potential. With our unique history in Southeast Asia as being a country that was never colonised, we have undergone a revolution of development, teetering on the edge of being a "developed market". The second largest economy in Asean after Indonesia and geographically at the centre of continental Asean, we have much to gain from the establishment of the Asean economic community next year. Modesty would be a good start Mark .... interesting that hes citing much to gain from rather than much to give the Asean economic community as a partner.Teetering on the edge is a good description of where the country is at the moment though, but its on the edge of stability rather than a developed market right now. We have an educated, professional workforce. Our country is a hub for automotive manufacturing, technology, services, leisure and the creative industries. It is an agricultural tour de force. Behind our famous Thai smile, there is a strong sense of national pride, a determination to succeed, a passion to preserve what we call "Thai-ness", and the will and ability to continue to grow, develop and perform, both nationally and globally Such a hub of everything here wow,the passion of preserving Thai-ness part is interesting, just what could that mean i wonder ? Using Google I see that this article was an opinion piece in the Bangkok Post today. It does not refer to the financial times. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iancnx Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Abhisit abrogated the right to sound statesmanlike the day he manned the protest barriers with Suthep. He is nothing better than a street brawler who is trying to overthrow one democratically elected government and prevent the reelection of another. The force of his party's argument is so weak that a majority of Thais wont vote for him and he has resorted to physically preventing people from voting. He and his friends in the Ruling Elite are causing the current turmoil in Thailand. They need to go home, announce that they will participate in fresh elections and then the democratic process will be restored. The people will then decide who they want to govern them and if they decide its a party led by the Shinawatra's thats their democratic right. If they support the rice pledging scheme so be it. Abhisit will never be respected and will have his Churchillian speeches scoffed at, because he has abandoned democracy simply because the majority wont vote fro him. I disagree. Read the article and you will see he is advocating an independent reform process: Quote// ..........we need to face the reality that only someone credible and accepted by all sides can lead the reform process and manage the short transition to new elections in which everyone participates. That someone is clearly not the current government, the protest leaders nor the Democrat Party.// This is a clear statement! Slice it up any which way, this is the only way out for the country. I hope and pray a new emerging middle of the road party will emerge that can adopt some of the good from both red and yellow, and reject all of the bad. I think mainstream Thais already acknowledge that the two main parties that are responsible for decades of political impasse have had their day. The farmers also appear to be understanding a little more about thai politics and the need for change. The protest movement is not about Suthep, it is about mainstream Thais demanding better from their politicians. Even Suthep realises his day is over; he will have no choice but to step aside once reforms are in progress. A new emerging party will surely evolve led by someone with clean hands. Red and Yellow will play their part in the new order, that is democracy where healthy law abiding opposition is an essential constituent. Abhisit acknowledges this. Yingluck goes not. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fab4 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Instead of demonizing the man try to READ the article and see why he removed himself from the democratic process. READ the article and understand the points he is making. All that is ever spouted is elections, elections, elections. Democracy is not just elections. Yet people refuse too admit it. The UDD supporters on this site cannot even tell me what the principles of democracy are. Not one. They change the subject, demonize me or argue an unrelated fact. All great traits of a demagogue, but unfortunately not a trait of someone that yearns for democracy. Abhisit has made it pretty clear the abuses under the current structure. Do the people want abuse of power, corruption, failed policies and a govt that said "if you don't vote for us we refuse you our services". When people vote for abuse of power, corruption, failed policies and a govt that said "if you don't vote for us we refuse you our services" they are voting for a failed state. Even though there was an election, that is not a democracy. It will eventually be a failed state. Reform is needed to ensure any future government cannot do the abuse whether it be PTP or DEM's or any sitting government. Abhisit can be called a street thug or any other demonizing word that makes you feel that your supporting a righteous "team" while the opposition are evil and fascist, but at the end of the day that street thug is a citizen of Thailand that makes a dam_n factual point that opposition in their arrogance and holier than thou attitude dismiss as it does the overwhelming majority of Thailand which was shown in the last election to not support the PTP. Without extrapolating the figures and juggling numbers an overwhelming majority do want reform. An overwhelming majority do want free and fair elections. An overwhelming majority understand that voting is a gateway of the democratic process that allows a government to prove to the people it is democratic. An overwhelming majority DO NOT think that abuse of power, corruption and a govt that says "if you don't vote for us we refuse you our services". Obviously you do because you defend it no, you ignore it and spout elections. If I had to chose a repressive regime with dictatorial tendencies or a democratic street thug. I will choose the latter any day. The crux of your whole abhisit hagiography above is in your last paragraph which begins "If I had to choose" This Oxford educated hyper intelligent best thing to hit Thailand since marmite became available, "politician" (I'm joking about abhisit but not the marmite) is responsible for denying the Thai citizen that choice. He has taken his party out of the democratic election process with his petulant boycott thus denying dem party supporters their choice and is actively supporting his former deputy who is frantically trying to stop anybody from voting and therefore taking away their choice. This failed politician does not deserve to have a platform for his myopic vision of what is best for Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Scamper Posted February 20, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) An excellent and timely article by Abhisit. For those who are skeptical about his motives, be aware that in this article he explicitly takes himself and his party out of the political equation. He feels - as do likely a consensus of Thais - that someone needs to oversee a period of reform, and he specifically points out that neither the current members of the government, nor the leaders of the PDRC, nor the Democratic party and himself should do that. And he is right. For this to succeed, it has to be above politics, and it has to have credibility in all sectors and regions of the country. " ... the new-found energy and unprecedented level of political awareness and engagement ... " Abhisit - in these well-chosen words - is describing this period in Thai political history most aptly. Indeed, the lethargy has been followed by a clear awakening. Never have Thais from so many walks of life and encompassing all regions of the country been so actively conscious of their power to mold their own destiny. That path is now inevitable. And the people will be up to the task. Edited February 20, 2014 by Scamper 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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