Dowry

[ZAKY]

Bien parle !!! (French) In english mean you got it

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[ZAKY]

A old man told me " if you are getting milk by bottle in the supermaket, why do you have to get yourself dependant to a cow"

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[slipperylobster]

Give them nothing and don't ever marry her.

As a punishment for their greed I suggest you also stop making payments on their pickup, tell them you're rethinking things since they decided to sell their daughter.

To the other guy who said he will demand sinsod for his daughter - you had better make sure word doesn't get around back home as selling women is illegal in some countries.

I totally agree. And this topic makes me angry. Just don't marry them...you are farang not Thai.

There are guys with money to burn that like playing this rip off scam...but do not want to admit they are wrong.

There are the rest of us that would rather support the family of the girl in their own way.

Simply shack up together, as you have been doing. What benefit are you getting from the marriage?

I can see where a young lady, with no children, and no boy friend being sold off.... I say sold off..yes. Up in these parts, you get ladies in their late forties asking 2 million (no bullcrap here) for the priviledge of supporting her, somebody else's kids, and the family. This money will never come back to you after the wedding. Ok it worked for one or two guys...but what is the rest of the story? She should do as they do in the Philippines, and just thank the Powers That be that a good man came into her lonely life to manage her finances, children, and shopping list.....and begone her credit. Jeeeeeeeeesh

[slipperylobster]

i was wondering do Thai males give dowrys and if so i bet they dont give tousands on Bahts, why oh why do farangs fall for this, the best option is if ya want to live in Thailand dont get invloved with a lady who will fleece you (yeah they all do i know) but to live on your own and spend your money on a "bar-girl" once a week believe me you will have much variation and thousands of Bahts beter off lol !!

Even more incredible.....as somebody had mentioned......

If this is a rock solid custom (and it is not..just used to be) then imagine this....

Would a Thai Male pay sin sot to a farang lady if they married here? Sounds too weird...but I sure doubt it.

That definitely clears up the whole mess. They marry for a better lifestyle....that makes a marriage with a farang different alone. No need worry about face...the only face lost is that you were smarter that they.

[ZAKY]

Thanks for putting water to my mill ! I was saying since the begining that the falangs want to show off that they CAN !!! They are the biggest culprit of having created this plus for appetite for money from the thai girls at a point i can tell you that it was like a competition among falangs of getting the most beautiful girls, some tends to show that he is more thai than others; they forget that living in thailand, speaking thai, eating thai food etc... Will never make them a thai...So where is the pride? Even if you are on a marriage visa: tomorrow you get divorce- ! You will have to leave thailand

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[advancebooking]

i was wondering do Thai males give dowrys and if so i bet they dont give tousands on Bahts, why oh why do farangs fall for this, the best option is if ya want to live in Thailand dont get invloved with a lady who will fleece you (yeah they all do i know) but to live on your own and spend your money on a "bar-girl" once a week believe me you will have much variation and thousands of Bahts beter off lol !!

Even more incredible.....as somebody had mentioned......

If this is a rock solid custom (and it is not..just used to be) then imagine this....

Would a Thai Male pay sin sot to a farang lady if they married here? Sounds too weird...but I sure doubt it.

That definitely clears up the whole mess. They marry for a better lifestyle....that makes a marriage with a farang different alone. No need worry about face...the only face lost is that you were smarter that they.

totally agree. When I first started dating my current gf the topic came up as I told her a story about a recent wedding for a friend and how much sin sot was paid. She said back then that her sinsot would be high but returned at the wedding bc her parents are 'modern' etc. Now months on, the topic has come up and she says that it will have to be paid with no refund. I told her that Im not willing to pay it should we be married. No way....Im not paying a lot of money to strangers (ie her parents)... I did say that we could help look after them when they get really old as long as this responsibility is shared with the 2 brothers. Im not going to give in on this decision

[Runamile]

Where there was true love, I've seen parents put in place, meaning by their daughter.

Ultimately, this is a matter not of the parents' position, but the daughter's.

If she is simply a spokesperson for her parents or wider family, that is what she will, forever, be. Do you want that?

I would have that it's critical to ask how you managed to parent the pickup, unmarried and at an early juncture. Pushy them? Overly accommodating you? More important, what role did the lady play then?

Maybe time to put your foot down - either with her, them or yourself, or any combination thereof!

[rwdrwdrwd]

Get burn once...a mistake.

Get burn again...stupidity.

for the first bride family you bought a motorbike....

for the second a car...

will you go for a house next time if this wont work out?

I did not buy the motorbike the family bought that when I was off the scene. As for the car payments, I do pay my girlfriend a combined salary for cooking, cleaning and for nightly comforts (daytime as well) as I do not want her to go out to work in case I need her during the day. She told me her parents were struggling financially and I agreed that she could give them money every month out of her salary for payments on the pickup and yes these payments should compensate for the lack of dowry. What annoys me most is that her father is a lazy b-----d and lays in his hammock all day while the mother does all the work around the house and looks after the small eatery next to the house. I am a good bit older than my girlfriend and most of the time we get on well. But if she threatens to leave again maybe I should just let her go. Oh yes I was going to build her a house and at some point she said what would I do if she drastically reduced my sex allowance and my reply was the house build is cancelled and she knows if there is no honey then there would be no money.

I have lost money with girls in Thailand but nothing a could not handle.

It seems you have some extreme self-confidence issues.

You are employing a maid/prostitute, that's the be all and end all of the situation - you have not once mentioned 'love', and make clear that you consider this to be a case of exchanging money for 'services'. She is not your 'girlfriend', she is your employee and it's all a bit depressing to be frank, from the perspective of both parties.

But to the crux of your question, why on earth would you consider marriage if what you really want is someone to service your needs in exchange for money? If that's what you think you require for happiness, at the expense of a soulmate, how is getting married an improvement on not getting married in any way?

Edited February 23, 2014 by rwdrwdrwd

[ChiangraiTony]

Sounds like you've had your share of different relationships. If you know THAI culture then why did you promise your love to marry her and then act like a jerk by saying something like that you be spiteful. Knowing already your bad luck, just stay single, save your money and just enjoy yourself and have fun.

[Donnie Brasco]

Donnie brasco, Ive read some of your wild comments on previous posts. I'm assuming that your part bogan and thus maybe OP is over qualified for your daughter no offence.

If I may

"wild comments" = your opinion. . . the sort of subjective appraisal of a fact hither-to unknown,

>>water is at its densist at +4degrees C

Edited February 23, 2014 by Donnie Brasco

[benalibina]

i was wondering do Thai males give dowrys and if so i bet they dont give tousands on Bahts, why oh why do farangs fall for this, the best option is if ya want to live in Thailand dont get invloved with a lady who will fleece you (yeah they all do i know) but to live on your own and spend your money on a "bar-girl" once a week believe me you will have much variation and thousands of Bahts beter off lol !!

Even more incredible.....as somebody had mentioned......

If this is a rock solid custom (and it is not..just used to be) then imagine this....

Would a Thai Male pay sin sot to a farang lady if they married here? Sounds too weird...but I sure doubt it.

That definitely clears up the whole mess. They marry for a better lifestyle....that makes a marriage with a farang different alone. No need worry about face...the only face lost is that you were smarter that they.

totally agree. When I first started dating my current gf the topic came up as I told her a story about a recent wedding for a friend and how much sin sot was paid. She said back then that her sinsot would be high but returned at the wedding bc her parents are 'modern' etc. Now months on, the topic has come up and she says that it will have to be paid with no refund. I told her that Im not willing to pay it should we be married. No way....Im not paying a lot of money to strangers (ie her parents)... I did say that we could help look after them when they get really old as long as this responsibility is shared with the 2 brothers. Im not going to give in on this decision

Funny u mention this. 2 months before our son was born i said the same about giving money to her mother. I will pay the same as your brothers and sisters totally pay. Never heard anything about it anymore. If i were you....be careful...but you know that already.

[ajarnmarc]

Keith,

I can relate to your situation,

as my view is the same.

There's no reason to pay the family for their daughter.

When this happened to me, in my first relationship,

the mother of an Issan woman, who I had just met,

for my first visit to the family home; the dowry was set at 100k.

I was asked if I wished to marry their daughter,

and my response was someday, perhaps,

as we had only known each other for a few months.

I declined on their request, stating to my girl,

that I'm not buying love.

I'd go against the western way of the father paying for the wedding,

and I'd pay for everything concerning the wedding,

but nothing for the parents pocket.

We stayed together for four more years,

before her parents got their way,

and my girl went into the arms of another.

It took that girl five years to find a candidate willing to pay,

and now she lives in Finland, and is miserable in her relationship,

but at least her parents got paid.

I've seen more times than not, this dowry thing is a scam,

where most who request it, or receive it, end the relationship soon after and move on to another who's willing to also pay.

It's when there is no dowry involved, that the relationship last...from what I've seen over the past 14 years here.

My belief is, it's when the love is true & strong, the need of greed doesn't pop it's ugly head into the relationship,

and greed is indeed the big issue behind dowry.

My current girlfriend of nine plus years, has an uncle getting married,

and they've invited the family to attend.

The uncle who's Thai, has asked his family to help provide for the dowry,

in the way of Gold & Money, even from my girlfriend & her mother,

which would be his sister,

and I'm like why should he make this request upon his family?

He's a dentist, and he's the one getting married,

not his family.

We won't be attending the wedding, of course.

Again, it's just greed.

I do like the suggestion that one post gave,

about stopping the payment on their shiny truck,

which has to come to much more than the average dowry.

If you girl can't be satisfied with what you've already committed yourself to doing,

then she's not in for the long haul,

and you'll just continue to pay for the relationship with her.

Enjoy the honeymoon time you have with her,

but it's best to look elsewhere,

before you go broke trying to make this relationship work...

It's doubtful any man wishes to be thought of as an ATM,

and yet that's exactly what some of these Thai girls are after.

When you do decide to walk, it will be her who loses out.

As long as you make sure to not get her pregnant beforehand.

As then she'll get the local police to hammer down on you,

even though there's nothing they can do, they will try to protect her as much as they can,

as it's a payday for them as well.

[hotrod4098]

mine was already waiting,,i paid the sinsot,,she already was seeing another man..now she has married him..and paying for him.

young man 37..no money at all..on ed visa...he has scammed her for the visa,,to stay in thailand

[osiboy]

i agree with stopping all financial support. if she loves you, really loves you and is committed to the relationship, she will stay with you through thick and thin, good times and bad.

before going any further you really need to know whether she cares for you or she cares for your money

i know people who have never paid a thai woman or her family a satang and have wonderful relationships

you can add me to that list, married twice in LOS and never paid a bean , neither of them were bar girls either,...... and we're happy

[transam]

Think most of us have played on the one armed bandit machine praying for the 777 to come up. Very few of us have got near to that a win.

So what chance do you/we have against a two armed bandit ?.............

[ajarnmarc]

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My daughter is getting married to a Thai man and the sinsot has been arranged at 1 million baht with half being returned after the weddiing. It's not just gullible farang that pay silly amounts.

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It's anyone who is driven by greed...

or wishes to make up for his shame of marrying a girl 20+ years younger than him.

There's no other excuse for it.

I have two children,

and I never think of either of them as an interest deferred saving account ready to mature.

Or my pension.

When I can't provide for my family on my own,

then it's time to do as an old dog would...

go someplace to peacefully die with pride & dignity.

[penwithcris]

I too have been really unfortunate in marriage

My first wife died of a fractured skull

My second wife died after eating poisoned mushrooms

My third wife also died from a fractured skull

She wouldn't eat the poisoned mushrooms!!!!!

[atyclb]

Have lived here for a while, speak read and write the language yet have yet to find the single Thai girl of my dreams though have found MANY of nightmares.

[ZAKY]

you must start playing lotto

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[ggt]

Points of view...

1. Long term expats who never married here

" What kind of idiot would buy his wife from greedy upcountry relatives

who should get jobs instead of selling their family members..."

2. Expats who paid sin sot and are living the Isan dream in an upcountry village

" I paid sin sot for my lovely wife and am the happiest man in the world. This

is a Thai custom, and if you want to be properly integrated into Thai culture

you must pay this. Anybody who would not consider paying is simply a

cheapskate......."

Hey wait a minute. I have a lovely half Thai three year old daughter. Does this mean I can sell her when she is marriageable age ? Hmmmm....

Anybody who would not consider paying is simply a

cheapskate......."

Because someone...gives pause...before rushing into paying relatives for the companionship ...of their daughter...does not implicate them as being a "cheapskate"...

I would imagine there are as many sad stories...of fortunes lost to sin sod...as there are stories like yours...

Personally, would never PAY for a human being...call it what you will...you are buying her undying affection...

My advice...DON"T DO IT...money will become the focal point of the marriage...

[nithisa78]

If the woman has been married before or has child .... is the dowry requirement not VOID? No anger just question that good Thai man friend has answered for me. He has plenty money and is generous, good man.

[Loles]

You are a huge lottery prize for Isaan families, so just do it, don't leave TH they will cry a lot if Santa runs away.

"shiny pick up car" <--- love it

[shaurene]

I married my TGF after 2 yrs she understood the dowry thing is not what I believe in. But to save face for her mamma & family I did a deal, I put 400k on the table so mamma could show her village friends, my wife got it all back the next day and gave me it back.

We are now over 4 yrs married in a perfect relationship and I support her mamma and all.

If you decide to put some money up do not go over '100k. Tell your G/'F that if they insist there would never be any more support for them.

Best of luck but do what you want.

[nithisa78]

Keith,

I can relate to your situation,

as my view is the same.

There's no reason to pay the family for their daughter.

When this happened to me, in my first relationship,

the mother of an Issan woman, who I had just met,

for my first visit to the family home; the dowry was set at 100k.

I was asked if I wished to marry their daughter,

and my response was someday, perhaps,

as we had only known each other for a few months.

I declined on their request, stating to my girl,

that I'm not buying love.

I'd go against the western way of the father paying for the wedding,

and I'd pay for everything concerning the wedding,

but nothing for the parents pocket.

We stayed together for four more years,

before her parents got their way,

and my girl went into the arms of another.

It is okay to marry for money. It just needs to be upfront and stated before the marriage takes place. As well, what does the spouse with the money receive in return. We are interacting with many good and beautiful people

It took that girl five years to find a candidate willing to pay,

and now she lives in Finland, and is miserable in her relationship,

but at least her parents got paid.

I've seen more times than not, this dowry thing is a scam,

where most who request it, or receive it, end the relationship soon after and move on to another who's willing to also pay.

It's when there is no dowry involved, that the relationship last...from what I've seen over the past 14 years here.

My belief is, it's when the love is true & strong, the need of greed doesn't pop it's ugly head into the relationship,

and greed is indeed the big issue behind dowry.

My current girlfriend of nine plus years, has an uncle getting married,

and they've invited the family to attend.

The uncle who's Thai, has asked his family to help provide for the dowry,

in the way of Gold & Money, even from my girlfriend & her mother,

which would be his sister,

and I'm like why should he make this request upon his family?

He's a dentist, and he's the one getting married,

not his family.

We won't be attending the wedding, of course.

Again, it's just greed.

I do like the suggestion that one post gave,

about stopping the payment on their shiny truck,

which has to come to much more than the average dowry.

If you girl can't be satisfied with what you've already committed yourself to doing,

then she's not in for the long haul,

and you'll just continue to pay for the relationship with her.

Enjoy the honeymoon time you have with her,

but it's best to look elsewhere,

before you go broke trying to make this relationship work...

It's doubtful any man wishes to be thought of as an ATM,

and yet that's exactly what some of these Thai girls are after.

When you do decide to walk, it will be her who loses out.

As long as you make sure to not get her pregnant beforehand.

As then she'll get the local police to hammer down on you,

even though there's nothing they can do, they will try to protect her as much as they can,

as it's a payday for them as well.

It is okay to marry for money. The person doing so just needs to be upfront about it. As well what will the money person receive in return. Get it in writing so nobody forgets. We are interacting with many good and decent people, far below the poverty line most anywhere on God's green Earth. Be sincere and there is virtually no opposition. That is natural law. Is it easy, not often. Does everything get well over night, not often. Love is an emotion and requires patience and constant cultivating. Well worth it. This is love centered post. Chokh Di. No I don't speak Thai.

[CLUBBER]

Once upon a time there was a handsome Prince who asked the beautiful Princess to marry him . She said "No" and the Prince lived happily ever after , The End

[GOLDBUGGY]

If your pride and your views are more important than your G/F, then the obvious answer to all this is don't get married. Even if you end up not paying the Sin Sod. You are not ready for that yet. So no point in confusing the issue about paying Sin Sod when it has nothing to do with your feelings about marriage, and her.

You mention you have been together for 15 months, but are you talking about day to day life for 15 months, or a few trips a year to visit her over a 15 month period. There is a bid difference between the two. I to went down the same road as you with 2 failed marriages under my belt. It took me years with my present wife to trust marriage again and so far all is well. Marriage is also still a very big deal in Thailand, whereas Common Law Marriage and just living together is getting to be more popular in the West.

If you only stumbling block is what you say, which is the Sin Sod, then keep in mind this statement. There is "Pride" but there is also "False Pride" and "Foolish Pride". In Thailand, I find it is best sometimes to keep My Pride in My Pocket and where it belongs. You mentioned that in the West the Father of the Bride pays the whole shot, but you know as well as I do that this does not happen very often. Usually it is split between the parents 50/50.

But this is not the West anyway and you are not wanting to marry a Western Woman. You chose a Thai Girl who has her own culture and Sid Sod is part of her culture. Sin Sod is also not the same as a Dowry. In most places a Dowry is paid for the Bride which she gets to keep all through the marriage, and if things go South, after the divorce. Sin Sod traditionally goes to the parents of the Bride.

By tradition, what you are supposed to be paying for is lost income to the parents, although this is not always the case. Daughters are expected to help out with the family income all through their lives. But the parents will lose some of that, or all of that, if she marries and now her income and labour goes to him and his family. If she is not educated and works on the family farm, by tradition she will move into her husbands family and now work with her husbands, or his family's farm instead. Thai Woman traditionally move in with her husbands family and not them moving in with hers.

If she is well educated, then what you are paying for in a Sin Sod is the lost income to the parents and a better income you will get for her. So in a way you are compensating them for the money they spent on her and lost labour they have, by sending her to get her higher education. In a way, I guess it is like a Bar Fine. You are paying it to take this girl out of the bar where the owner may see this as lost income. Perhaps having to pay another girl take her place. I know it doesn't always work this way anymore, but this is what is behind it all.

This may seem strange as for us I guess it is. Also Thail Men pay Sin Sod, so we are not alone here. Also, and in my fathers time in Canada, it was very common to have many kids in the family to help out on the family farm. There was 15 kids in my dad's family. So kids back then were also considered a workable asset in Canada, and as they are in Thailand. They also cared for their elderly back then, which of course they don't do anymore. Just place them in some Old Foke's Home instead.

As I said, I really don't think you are ready for marriage and the sooner you explain that to your G/F, and why, she will hopefully understand. Just tell her you need more time. If she can't wait then she is not the one for you and move on. I know how you feel as it took me years to get over this with Umpteen Money lost as well. I am not sure even now where I will end up. But the way I got it figured out now is that since I still keep control of the money, this is far better then living alone. Or a life of One Night Stands with Bar Girls.

Good Luck!.

[EyesWideOpen]

I was just reflecting on the cruelty of those guys advocating paying sin sot, and then taking

it back after the big wedding show is over.... So you have a farmer family living in a bamboo

shack. You show up in a nice car, have the village wedding , and then flash more money

than the parents of the Isan princess you are marrying has ever seen. Then the next day

scoop up all the money and drive back to Bangkok......Seems a greater kindness would

be to not show money at all.

[Lucifer]

I married my TGF after 2 yrs she understood the dowry thing is not what I believe in. But to save face for her mamma & family I did a deal, I put 400k on the table so mamma could show her village friends, my wife got it all back the next day and gave me it back.

We are now over 4 yrs married in a perfect relationship and I support her mamma and all.

If you decide to put some money up do not go over '100k. Tell your G/'F that if they insist there would never be any more support for them.

Best of luck but do what you want.

Very good, but when you "support her mamma and all", it's goodbye wife. 100%.

[Boxclever]

Points of view...

1. Long term expats who never married here

" What kind of idiot would buy his wife from greedy upcountry relatives

who should get jobs instead of selling their family members..."

2. Expats who paid sin sot and are living the Isan dream in an upcountry village

" I paid sin sot for my lovely wife and am the happiest man in the world. This

is a Thai custom, and if you want to be properly integrated into Thai culture

you must pay this. Anybody who would not consider paying is simply a

cheapskate......."

Hey wait a minute. I have a lovely half Thai three year old daughter. Does this mean I can sell her when she is marriageable age ? Hmmmm....

Well I got to admit, if my beloved looked the same as your avatar, I'd pay up

[BenCrew]

Short time's the answer...for that perfect happy ending where there is no loss of money...or face.....and the family will have to pay for their own pick-up.