Always check newly installed tires

[vcpilot]

Last month got new tires installed for my nouvo elegance in a large tire shop. Thought all was fine, until today (about 500km later) i found out that they totally screwed it up.

What I wanted:

front: 80/90, back: 90/90

What i got:

front: 80/90 rear wheel installed against the arrow

back: 90/90 front wheel installed against the arrow.

I doubt that they'll give me new ones for free, but i'm going to ask them anyways.

The moral of the story: ALWAYS check the tires before you leave the shop.

Edited February 21, 2014 by vcpilot

[RubberSideDown]

Yes, you should definitely have checked before taking your bike back, but that's incredibly gross incompetence from a tire shop, even for LOS- I'd make sure I talked to the manager or owner.

[ll2]

Crazy! Ask for new tires.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[kotsak]

At least they got the numbers correct..

[wantan]

Guess they installed them "against the arrow" because they are wrong (front on back, back on front). That would make some sense, at least in Thai logic

[papa al]

I'll bet those 90/90's were really close under the fender of your Nouvo!

It took you 500km to notice?

I'm sure they will switch them for you.

No harm, no foul.

You should check online for explanation of what the arrow means.

Directional marking for a 'rear' tire should be reversed if it is mounted on front.

Rear tires are stressed by accelerative forces; fronts are stressed by braking forces.

It has to do with how the plies are over-lapped.

Also certain tread patterns (e.g., Michelin Pilot Street) are optimized for wet operation and should be oriented appropriately.

Again, online sites are available to fully explain.

Remain calm, no biggie.

[namdocmai]

Everything that can go wrong will go wrong here in LOS.

Also check if they clean the brakediscs from greasy fingers. If the tire is not to old and has a good profile that you like.

If they tighten the bolts well and pumped the tires with the right pressure. I have had all these things wrong.

[fatdrunkandstupid]

If a Thai hangs a sign out front of his shop house stating that he is a mechanic (or a tyre fitter for that matter), it does not mean that he has the slightest bit of training, or knowledge, or skill working on motorbikes (or fitting tyres). All that the sign proves is that, somewhere, in the past, Somchai had enough money to pay for a sign.

[paz]

You should check online for explanation of what the arrow means.

Directional marking for a 'rear' tire should be reversed if it is mounted on front.

Rear tires are stressed by accelerative forces; fronts are stressed by braking forces.

It has to do with how the plies are over-lapped.

Also certain tread patterns (e.g., Michelin Pilot Street) are optimized for wet operation and should be oriented appropriately.

Again, online sites are available to fully explain.

You may have the theory right, but the easy practice wrong.

Post official tire maker online reference to support your ridiculous claims. The tire must be installed with the arrow pointing into the direction of ratation.

On utiility bikes, there is no distinction between front and rear tires, so the they have to be installed indentically, of course you can installed them differenty if that makes you feel better.

On powerful sport bikes, the manufacturer will specify front or rear tire usage and correctly indicate with the arrow the correct rotation direction. e.g

http://zx6r.com/zx6r/12701-tire-tread-direction.html

Edited February 21, 2014 by paz

[namdocmai]

If a Thai hangs a sign out front of his shop house stating that he is a mechanic (or a tyre fitter for that matter), it does not mean that he has the slightest bit of training, or knowledge, or skill working on motorbikes (or fitting tyres). All that the sign proves is that, somewhere, in the past, Somchai had enough money to pay for a sign.

I speak from much experience and don't want to bash Thai or anything but in engineering or as a mechanic they are very very unproffessional. They even can't mount a licensplateholder, windscreen, luggagebox, mirror, horn or anything else properly on a vehicle or house. They always have to do a 2nd try after complaints.

I know this is a 3rd world country but it is really unbelievable how unproffessional the technicians here are. They all would get sacked after 1 day working in Europe. They cost a lot less though and that's the only advantage of Thai engineers/technicians.

[vcpilot]

In the end the front tire was ok. I originally inspected it in hurry, and saw the text 'REAR --> ',

and assumed that it couldn't be used for front. But actually it also contained text '<-- FRONT'.

So it's a dual usage tire. Not so lucky with the rear tire though. It still is a 90/90 *front* tire,

installed against the directional arrow, to the rear of the bike.

Why it took 500km to notice? I didn't actually notice. It was a stranger that just told me that hey, your

tire is installed the wrong way. The text is not very visible in the tire, and i never fully inspected.

papa al: the 90/90 is in the rear. It's 10 mm(?) wider than the stock tire (80/90), but the same height, and it doesn't seem to be

too close to any other parts of the bike. The front tire is also 10mm wider than the stock, and it is pretty close to the fender,

but seems to work all right.

I went to the shop, and the owner was friendly. Still, no joy. He told me not to worry, this is (their) standard operational

procedure, and in fact, no 90/90 rear tires are even available from the suppliers. At least according to this chart:

http://motorcycle.michelin.asia/twproduct/findProduct/moreProduct/196 it doesn't seem that michelin really make such a narrow tire for the

rear, except this odd model '90/90 - 18 57P REINF TL/TT', which might not even be available here.

The way i see it, i have these choices:

a ) keep the front tire in the rear and hope that it works in wet conditions

b ) buy a new stock set of tires for this kind of bike (the michelins seemed to handle better though, at least in dry conditions)

c ) install a 80/90 double usage front/rear tire (like the current front tire) to the rear as well. But this might effect the handling

characteristics of the bike, since this would make front and back tires the equal size, when originally the rear had a wider tire than front.

d ) somehow find a good quality 90/90 rear tire. I doubt i can safely install any wider tires on the current (tubeless) rims.

[vcpilot]

papa al:

You wrote in another thread: "Upgrading A Yamaha Nouvo Elegance."

that you upgraded your elegance with:

"The replacement tires were Michelin Pilot Sporty 90/90 rear and 80/90 front."

I guess i didn't mention it, but i also bought Michelin Pilot Sporty's for

nouvo elegance, so it seems that at least on paper, we made the exact same upgrade.

My vendor claimed that 90/90-16 rear tires were not available from supplier.

Could you check your rear tire, does it say front or rear?

[Richard-BKK]

Just for the fun of it you should look at a motorcycle parking, at a BigC or Lotus supermarket. You would almost start to think that you're wrong, as a lot of motorcycles and scooters have the tires wrongly mounted....

The good part is that on a 110 to 150cc motorcycle / scooter the engine doesn't generate enough force to be dangerous... But a few of this guys who mount tires also mount tires on big bikes....

[papa al]

You should check online for explanation of what the arrow means.

Directional marking for a 'rear' tire should be reversed if it is mounted on front.

Rear tires are stressed by accelerative forces; fronts are stressed by braking forces.

It has to do with how the plies are over-lapped.

Also certain tread patterns (e.g., Michelin Pilot Street) are optimized for wet operation and should be oriented appropriately.

Again, online sites are available to fully explain.

You may have the theory right, but the easy practice wrong.

Post official tire maker online reference to support your ridiculous claims. The tire must be installed with the arrow pointing into the direction of ratation.

On utiility bikes, there is no distinction between front and rear tires, so the they have to be installed indentically, of course you can installed them differenty if that makes you feel better.

On powerful sport bikes, the manufacturer will specify front or rear tire usage and correctly indicate with the arrow the correct rotation direction. e.g

http://zx6r.com/zx6r/12701-tire-tread-direction.html

Here you go Paz; type this into your search engine:

"Tires Directional Arrows Explained By Avon Tyres"

Numerous other sites will reiterate if you care to look.

Thanks for the name calling.

It says a lot about you.

[paz]

You should check online for explanation of what the arrow means.

Directional marking for a 'rear' tire should be reversed if it is mounted on front.

Rear tires are stressed by accelerative forces; fronts are stressed by braking forces.

It has to do with how the plies are over-lapped.

Also certain tread patterns (e.g., Michelin Pilot Street) are optimized for wet operation and should be oriented appropriately.

Again, online sites are available to fully explain.

You may have the theory right, but the easy practice wrong.

Post official tire maker online reference to support your ridiculous claims. The tire must be installed with the arrow pointing into the direction of ratation.

On utiility bikes, there is no distinction between front and rear tires, so the they have to be installed indentically, of course you can installed them differenty if that makes you feel better.

On powerful sport bikes, the manufacturer will specify front or rear tire usage and correctly indicate with the arrow the correct rotation direction. e.g

http://zx6r.com/zx6r/12701-tire-tread-direction.html

Here you go Paz; type this into your search engine:

"Tires Directional Arrows Explained By Avon Tyres"

Numerous other sites will reiterate if you care to look.

Thanks for the name calling.

It says a lot about you.

The only one that see name calling is you, as well the only one believing the arrow should point backward. Have a nice day.

[paz]

In the end the front tire was ok. I originally inspected it in hurry, and saw the text 'REAR --> ',

and assumed that it couldn't be used for front. But actually it also contained text '<-- FRONT'.

So it's a dual usage tire. Not so lucky with the rear tire though. It still is a 90/90 *front* tire,

installed against the directional arrow, to the rear of the bike.

Is this the one you got on the back ?

My take is that on a Nuovo, it wll not make any difference which way it is mounted.

Personally, I woult not have increased sizes, because with 18" rims, the contact area is good enough with standard size already.

[papa al]

1.Paz writes: "Post official tire maker online reference to support your ridiculous claims. "

2. ...and...Cyril Huze, in above referenced article writes:

"If you are using a tire that has a directional arrow for rear rotation only and for some reason you want to put it on the front, make sure it is rotating in the opposite direction so you don’t aggravate the tread splice."

- See more at: http://cyrilhuzeblog.com/2009/08/23/tires-directional-arrows-explained-by-avon-tyres/#sthash.edQddT7L.dpuf

3. thanks, I will.

[paz]

From Webster dictionary

name calling

the act of using offensive names to insult someone

That I never did, but if you think have been subject to it, you can report postings to mods.

Edited February 22, 2014 by paz

[papa al]

In the end the front tire was ok. I originally inspected it in hurry, and saw the text 'REAR --> ',

and assumed that it couldn't be used for front. But actually it also contained text '<-- FRONT'.

So it's a dual usage tire. Not so lucky with the rear tire though. It still is a 90/90 *front* tire,

installed against the directional arrow, to the rear of the bike.

Is this the one you got on the back ?

My take is that on a Nuovo, it wll not make any difference which way it is mounted.

Personally, I woult not have increased sizes, because with 18" rims, the contact area is good enough with standard size already.

1. As far as de-lamination I doubt it would make any difference on a small bike.

2. Orientation for wet braking is important for tread patterns biased for wet road conditions, e.g., Michelin Pilot Street, according the manufacturer and other experts.

3. Nouvo has 16" rims not 18.

4. Increasing tire size can provide smoother ride and provide increased survivability when hitting potholes etc.

5. Larger tires won't really improve dry traction usually.

6. Larger (more massive) tires will accelerate or de-accelerate more slowly under a given force.

7. Fat tires look cool, IMO.

[Lancelot]

I bought some Dee Stone tires for my Honda Wave CZi a couple of years ago in Chiang Mai. Took them to a shop for installation and rode away. Couple of months later was washing my bike and sure enough the front tire was installed wrong- rotation was reversed. Took the bike to another shop to have it corrected and the mechanic thought I was "Thinking too much"

But he agreed to reinstall the tire for correct rotation. Gotta make money while you can.

Looking back, I think the Thais have it right- first shop made money, second shop made money and farang gets to think a lot

Edited February 22, 2014 by Lancelot

[papa al]

From Webster dictionary

name calling

the act of using offensive names to insult someone

That I never did, but if you think have been subject to it, you can report postings to mods.

You're right Paz.

Calling my claims "ridiculous", even though they are supported by experts, which I referenced for you, is not name calling.

My bad.

You are 100% right, as always.

[paz]

Sorry, I guess it's useless to debate with someone that thinks that there is no reason to buy bikes bigger than 150cc, and posts tach pics of speed record attempts.

Will happy ignore you from now on, please make it reciprocal.

[papa al]

...ad hominem, ad hominem, ad hominem....

[bazmlb]

Not only bikes, the tyre shop I went to in Pattaya north put all the tyres on around the wrong way, it made steering very wierd in the car which was how it was spotted quickly

[papa al]

Not only bikes, the tyre shop I went to in Pattaya north put all the tyres on around the wrong way, it made steering very wierd in the car which was how it was spotted quickly

Thanks for pointing this out. I didn't know that car tires are directional when new. I'll check it out further. What brand/model?

[Gsxrnz]

Not only bikes, the tyre shop I went to in Pattaya north put all the tyres on around the wrong way, it made steering very wierd in the car which was how it was spotted quickly

Thanks for pointing this out. I didn't know that car tires are directional when new. I'll check it out further. What brand/model?

It depends if they were true directional tyres, or non-directional asymmetric patters. They may have been fitted on the wrong side of the car, or the tyres may have been fitted with the wrong side facing outwards on the rim.

Some tyres are one-directional which means they're designed to be fitted to the car so their tread pattern faces a particular way (usually marked with an arrow on the sidewall).

Fitting them on the wrong side may affect the car's handling and wet road grip. If you use one, be aware that your spare only fits one side of the car.

The tread pattern may be symmetric or asymmetric.

There are also non-directional asymmetric models that are designed to be fitted to the rim so that a particular side (marked on the tyre's sidewall) faces outwards. With these, the spare can replace any of the other tyres. These are the more common type and many people incorrectly believe these are directional.

[jayci]

Check my bike tyres today. I had michelins m45 put on. Rear tyre was correctly install. The front tyre had both front and rear direction arrows, it was also installed correctly. Following front arrow rotation guide.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[kevkev1888]

In the end the front tire was ok. I originally inspected it in hurry, and saw the text 'REAR --> ',

and assumed that it couldn't be used for front. But actually it also contained text '<-- FRONT'.

So it's a dual usage tire. Not so lucky with the rear tire though. It still is a 90/90 *front* tire,

installed against the directional arrow, to the rear of the bike.

Why it took 500km to notice? I didn't actually notice. It was a stranger that just told me that hey, your

tire is installed the wrong way. The text is not very visible in the tire, and i never fully inspected.

papa al: the 90/90 is in the rear. It's 10 mm(?) wider than the stock tire (80/90), but the same height, and it doesn't seem to be

too close to any other parts of the bike. The front tire is also 10mm wider than the stock, and it is pretty close to the fender,

but seems to work all right.

I went to the shop, and the owner was friendly. Still, no joy. He told me not to worry, this is (their) standard operational

procedure, and in fact, no 90/90 rear tires are even available from the suppliers. At least according to this chart:

http://motorcycle.michelin.asia/twproduct/findProduct/moreProduct/196 it doesn't seem that michelin really make such a narrow tire for the

rear, except this odd model '90/90 - 18 57P REINF TL/TT', which might not even be available here.

The way i see it, i have these choices:

a ) keep the front tire in the rear and hope that it works in wet conditions

b ) buy a new stock set of tires for this kind of bike (the michelins seemed to handle better though, at least in dry conditions)

c ) install a 80/90 double usage front/rear tire (like the current front tire) to the rear as well. But this might effect the handling

characteristics of the bike, since this would make front and back tires the equal size, when originally the rear had a wider tire than front.

d ) somehow find a good quality 90/90 rear tire. I doubt i can safely install any wider tires on the current (tubeless) rims.

papa al:

You wrote in another thread: "Upgrading A Yamaha Nouvo Elegance."

that you upgraded your elegance with:

"The replacement tires were Michelin Pilot Sporty 90/90 rear and 80/90 front."

I guess i didn't mention it, but i also bought Michelin Pilot Sporty's for

nouvo elegance, so it seems that at least on paper, we made the exact same upgrade.

My vendor claimed that 90/90-16 rear tires were not available from supplier.

Could you check your rear tire, does it say front or rear?

I just got a set of these Michelin pilot sporty fitted to my Nouvo SX.

Seems they have done the opposite of the above.

The front 80/90 tyre is dual use front and rear, opposite directional arrows for each use. They have mounted it the wrong way for front use.

The rear 90/90 tyre is a front only tyre and and they have mounted it in the direction of the arrow.

So....... The front is definitely wrong and I will get them to change it.

But the rear???? It is correct direction going by the arrow but is actually a front tyre, so going by the dual use tyre should be mounted against the direction of the arrow????

Should I try to get the rear reversed also?

Or just leave it?

[ATF]

Moral of the story and I've been there and got the T-Shirt. Don't mess with wheel and tire sizes. Millions of $$$$ go into designing the correct wheel and tire for your vehicle. Don't screw with them especially if you have ABS. If you want to spend cash buy the most expensive tires you can afford and any extra cash on brakes.

[ZigZagMan]

In the end the front tire was ok. I originally inspected it in hurry, and saw the text 'REAR --> ',

and assumed that it couldn't be used for front. But actually it also contained text '<-- FRONT'.

So it's a dual usage tire. Not so lucky with the rear tire though. It still is a 90/90 *front* tire,

installed against the directional arrow, to the rear of the bike.

Why it took 500km to notice? I didn't actually notice. It was a stranger that just told me that hey, your

tire is installed the wrong way. The text is not very visible in the tire, and i never fully inspected.

papa al: the 90/90 is in the rear. It's 10 mm(?) wider than the stock tire (80/90), but the same height, and it doesn't seem to be

too close to any other parts of the bike. The front tire is also 10mm wider than the stock, and it is pretty close to the fender,

but seems to work all right.

I went to the shop, and the owner was friendly. Still, no joy. He told me not to worry, this is (their) standard operational

procedure, and in fact, no 90/90 rear tires are even available from the suppliers. At least according to this chart:

http://motorcycle.michelin.asia/twproduct/findProduct/moreProduct/196 it doesn't seem that michelin really make such a narrow tire for the

rear, except this odd model '90/90 - 18 57P REINF TL/TT', which might not even be available here.

The way i see it, i have these choices:

a ) keep the front tire in the rear and hope that it works in wet conditions

b ) buy a new stock set of tires for this kind of bike (the michelins seemed to handle better though, at least in dry conditions)

c ) install a 80/90 double usage front/rear tire (like the current front tire) to the rear as well. But this might effect the handling

characteristics of the bike, since this would make front and back tires the equal size, when originally the rear had a wider tire than front.

d ) somehow find a good quality 90/90 rear tire. I doubt i can safely install any wider tires on the current (tubeless) rims.

papa al:

You wrote in another thread: "Upgrading A Yamaha Nouvo Elegance."

that you upgraded your elegance with:

"The replacement tires were Michelin Pilot Sporty 90/90 rear and 80/90 front."

I guess i didn't mention it, but i also bought Michelin Pilot Sporty's for

nouvo elegance, so it seems that at least on paper, we made the exact same upgrade.

My vendor claimed that 90/90-16 rear tires were not available from supplier.

Could you check your rear tire, does it say front or rear?

I just got a set of these Michelin pilot sporty fitted to my Nouvo SX.

Seems they have done the opposite of the above.

The front 80/90 tyre is dual use front and rear, opposite directional arrows for each use. They have mounted it the wrong way for front use.

The rear 90/90 tyre is a front only tyre and and they have mounted it in the direction of the arrow.

So....... The front is definitely wrong and I will get them to change it.

But the rear???? It is correct direction going by the arrow but is actually a front tyre, so going by the dual use tyre should be mounted against the direction of the arrow????

Should I try to get the rear reversed also?

Or just leave it?

My experience working with Thais is they do it over and over again until it's 80% right.