The most dangerous countries to drive in; Thailand ranks #2

[wilcopops]

Don't want to rain on anyone's let's bitch about Thailand parade, but you are aware that it's deaths per hundred thousand residents, not a more meaningful measure like passenger kilometers or even car owners. Thailand has high levels of car ownership on that list - 206/100,000 in 2012 (so I expect it will have increased since then. Sudan has 27, less than 1/5th as many cars per 100,000 people, yet still manages to have (36/44=) 80% as many deaths.

Also Thailand has relatively good roads - stop laughing - it has motorways and good wide highways where you can cruise at 120kp/h for hours, while Namibia from my limited understanding is mostly gravel roads, with very little traffic.

Can't agree with your assessment of Thai roads.

firstly they do have a lot of paved road these days which encourages high speeds, but unfortunately a "good" road requires a lot more than that. Camber, trees, billboards keeping facing traffic away from each other..etc etc none of these issues are satisfactorily addressed.

thai has about the highest car ownership in ASAEAN, but 70% of deaths are of motorcyclists.

[SDM0712]

Also Thailand has relatively good roads - stop laughing - it has motorways and good wide highways where you can cruise at 120kp/h for hours, while Namibia from my limited understanding is mostly gravel roads, with very little traffic.

Can't agree with your assessment of Thai roads.

firstly they do have a lot of paved road these days which encourages high speeds, but unfortunately a "good" road requires a lot more than that. Camber, trees, billboards keeping facing traffic away from each other..etc etc none of these issues are satisfactorily addressed.

thai has about the highest car ownership in ASAEAN, but 70% of deaths are of motorcyclists.

I've done and do a lot of driving on Thai Roads, in a car and bike and I think it's fair to say the main highways themselves are fine, the problem I have with them is the U-Turns. Due to the poor (driving skill) education of many drivers they perform u-turns without, in many cases taking into account the speed of vehicles on the carriageway that they are turning into. Having said that I quite comfortably cruise at 120 KPH without incident and make good time on a long run.

In the early days of UK motorways we had U-Turns for Police use only, but these have all been closed off now because they are unsafe.

SDM

PS Wilcopops, would you reply to my questions directed to you asking for an explaintion of "the 5 es" and also to clarify your meaning of QED rather than just give me the dictionary definition ? As I wrote I understand what QED means, but not your application of the Latin phrase. If you could reply in plain English I will understand since it is my mother tongue. Thanks in advance.

Edited March 5, 2014 by SDM0712

[smileydude]

Having a defensive or anticipatory mindset might help lower driving accidents.

If we all have a sort of collective consciousness that enables us to understand each others driving styles and stick to it it might help.

Look at an intersection in Vietnam, I seriously believe they possess "collective consciousness"!

Edited March 6, 2014 by smileydude

[NBD]

Don't want to rain on anyone's let's bitch about Thailand parade, but you are aware that it's deaths per hundred thousand residents, not a more meaningful measure like passenger kilometers or even car owners. Thailand has high levels of car ownership on that list - 206/100,000 in 2012 (so I expect it will have increased since then. Sudan has 27, less than 1/5th as many cars per 100,000 people, yet still manages to have (36/44=) 80% as many deaths.

Also Thailand has relatively good roads - stop laughing - it has motorways and good wide highways where you can cruise at 120kp/h for hours, while Namibia from my limited understanding is mostly gravel roads, with very little traffic.

Can't agree with your assessment of Thai roads.

firstly they do have a lot of paved road these days which encourages high speeds, but unfortunately a "good" road requires a lot more than that. Camber, trees, billboards keeping facing traffic away from each other..etc etc none of these issues are satisfactorily addressed.

thai has about the highest car ownership in ASAEAN, but 70% of deaths are of motorcyclists.

Oh there's lots of problems with Thai roads, the key word is relatively. As I understand it most of the main roads in eg. Namibia are gravel. Even Laos is mostly single track, often unmade roads.

[SDM0712]

There really are some people on this forum who just won't admit Thailand is a dangerous place. tal about having your head in the sand. LOS - thats a fallacy also

It would be interesting to divide these people into groups of those who live here and those who come for a holiday every now and again.

This is directed to my fellow expats rather than the armchair experts around the world. In my opinion and experience, driving outside the big cities and in the villages is nice and relaxing. However something seems to happen in the in the cites and highways to drivers, it seems as if their very life depends on overtaking the car/bus/truck in front. And it doesn't seem to matter what vehicle they are driving and it's infectious, I often find myself doing things that I would never risk at home, and I'm a London driver!

The tourist areas are worse and I put this down simply to visiting foreigners who have observed the Thais and want to prove that they can be even more crazy because they are "obviously" superior drivers. I see this a lot in my fellow Brits, but of course we are the exception to the rule since we are naturally and genuinely superior. (It's a joke!)

I've never been a believer in stats, I know how they can be manipulated, but clearly to anyone with eyes in their head Thailand is not as safe to drive in as most European countries. As I mentioned I live and work in Phuket and am our on the roads daytime in a big SUV and if I'm out in the evening on a 650CC sports bike. I see a lot of accidents and they can all be put down to driver error, driver stupidity, drunk or drugged drivers, a few to equipment failure (but the slim minority). Most are bike related, and most I see are farangs who are riding scooters for the first time or have hired 1000 CC + racing style bikes. To ride a scooter is challenging to newbies on a busy set of roads, to ride a 1000CC bike here is like trying to control a monster surrounded by thousands of flies.

Stats aside , expats who live in the country will have a very different view from those who live in the city or a tourist area. Personally I enjoy driving in both, maybe the country is a bit boring !!

SDM

PS No QEDs or 5Es please!!

[wilcopops]

There really are some people on this forum who just won't admit Thailand is a dangerous place. tal about having your head in the sand. LOS - thats a fallacy also

It would be interesting to divide these people into groups of those who live here and those who come for a holiday every now and again.

This is directed to my fellow expats rather than the armchair experts around the world. In my opinion and experience, driving outside the big cities and in the villages is nice and relaxing. However something seems to happen in the in the cites and highways to drivers, it seems as if their very life depends on overtaking the car/bus/truck in front. And it doesn't seem to matter what vehicle they are driving and it's infectious, I often find myself doing things that I would never risk at home, and I'm a London driver!

The tourist areas are worse and I put this down simply to visiting foreigners who have observed the Thais and want to prove that they can be even more crazy because they are "obviously" superior drivers. I see this a lot in my fellow Brits, but of course we are the exception to the rule since we are naturally and genuinely superior. (It's a joke!)

I've never been a believer in stats, I know how they can be manipulated, but clearly to anyone with eyes in their head Thailand is not as safe to drive in as most European countries. As I mentioned I live and work in Phuket and am our on the roads daytime in a big SUV and if I'm out in the evening on a 650CC sports bike. I see a lot of accidents and they can all be put down to driver error, driver stupidity, drunk or drugged drivers, a few to equipment failure (but the slim minority). Most are bike related, and most I see are farangs who are riding scooters for the first time or have hired 1000 CC + racing style bikes. To ride a scooter is challenging to newbies on a busy set of roads, to ride a 1000CC bike here is like trying to control a monster surrounded by thousands of flies.

Stats aside , expats who live in the country will have a very different view from those who live in the city or a tourist area. Personally I enjoy driving in both, maybe the country is a bit boring !!

SDM

PS No QEDs or 5Es please!!

Well you have ignored the 5 Es and seem to justify your perception on the quality (again your perception) of other drivers seems to be your only assessment of accidents, which you haven't seen happen. - this is not the only factor.....so your whole argument, is flawed.

Edited March 7, 2014 by wilcopops

[wilcopops]

Don't want to rain on anyone's let's bitch about Thailand parade, but you are aware that it's deaths per hundred thousand residents, not a more meaningful measure like passenger kilometers or even car owners. Thailand has high levels of car ownership on that list - 206/100,000 in 2012 (so I expect it will have increased since then. Sudan has 27, less than 1/5th as many cars per 100,000 people, yet still manages to have (36/44=) 80% as many deaths.

Also Thailand has relatively good roads - stop laughing - it has motorways and good wide highways where you can cruise at 120kp/h for hours, while Namibia from my limited understanding is mostly gravel roads, with very little traffic.

Can't agree with your assessment of Thai roads.

firstly they do have a lot of paved road these days which encourages high speeds, but unfortunately a "good" road requires a lot more than that. Camber, trees, billboards keeping facing traffic away from each other..etc etc none of these issues are satisfactorily addressed.

thai has about the highest car ownership in ASAEAN, but 70% of deaths are of motorcyclists.

Oh there's lots of problems with Thai roads, the key word is relatively. As I understand it most of the main roads in eg. Namibia are gravel. Even Laos is mostly single track, often unmade roads.

One thing about "unmetalled" roads is that the average speed of the traffic is in general a lot slower.

[SDM0712]

Wilcopops, you failed to justify your comments before with any kind of explanation, as such I think I'm as confused about your meaning as you are yourself. Back to your dictionary and armchair my friend.

SDM

[wilcopops]

Wilcopops, you failed to justify your comments before with any kind of explanation, as such I think I'm as confused about your meaning as you are yourself. Back to your dictionary and armchair my friend. SDM

No mate - I'm not confused in the slightest....if you feel you have a point to make, read my posts.

[SDM0712]

Wilcopops, you failed to justify your comments before with any kind of explanation, as such I think I'm as confused about your meaning as you are yourself. Back to your dictionary and armchair my friend. SDM

No mate - I'm not confused in the slightest....if you feel you have a point to make, read my posts.

In that case it must be just me, I have read your posts and to be specific once again

1. You made a comment QED, the meaning of which I do understand, I still remember my Latin from school, but not how you were attempting to apply it. When I asked you to clarify you made an even more cryptic response. From this I can only assume that you either do not want to explain, or more likely cannot. If you were able to explain you would do so because this would further cement your view.

2. You made a comment about "5Es". I have no idea what these are and asked you to explain, once again you did not, for maybe the same reasons as above.

I have just commented on what I have experienced with my own eyes, and stated as much.

I live here full time but I imagine you are someone who has visited here a few times and now thinks you are an expert. You hide behind acronyms and abbreviations that I personally believe you do not fully understand and use to make yourself appear more knowledgable than you are, otherwise you would be willing to explain them to clarify your position.

Incidentally generally when someone says " if you have a point to make", it is normally followed by " make it". To follow it with " read my posts" makes no sense, how is that me making a point ?

SDM

Edited March 8, 2014 by SDM0712

[rametindallas]

Heck and that's in a car - what about on a bike !

I get the impression that most MC deaths are alcohol related. DUI on four wheels is a lot easier than DUI on two. Unfortunately, many don't have a choice of transportation.

"COFFIN-BIKE" TV Commercial

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUSACASLzo8

[siam2007]

Bangladesh, India, Laos, Indonesia, Philippines... All far more dangerous IMO..

While many of us will agree that the roads in Thailand are nowhere near as safe as those in many our home countries, these stats are clearly rubbish.

rubbish ? oh really ? how did you find out about that ?

"it just cannot be true, because I love Thailand", right ?

[utalkin2me]

The roads are designed poorly of course.

The poor design of the roads really could be counteracted by well trained drivers, but that leads to the second part of the problem. The drivers here are among the worst trained I have ever seen. Many of them have no training. The written test at land transport is a total joke. There is actually a question on there and the correct answer is just to stop your car in the left lane to park on what looks like a 2 lane highway. The right answer is to stop and park in the left lane!!

Designing the roads better is one thing, but they could so easily implement a system where drivers are being well trained. Simply just send some official to another country and see what their damn system is for licensing drivers. I have no idea why Thailand does not do more things like this, it will just always escape me.

[Munger]

Bangladesh, India, Laos, Indonesia, Philippines... All far more dangerous IMO..

While many of us will agree that the roads in Thailand are nowhere near as safe as those in many our home countries, these stats are clearly rubbish.

rubbish ? oh really ? how did you find out about that ?

"it just cannot be true, because I love Thailand", right ?

He thinks the stats. are Thai bashing

[SPB65]

I've lived in the north, Bkk and southern Thailand and the southern Thais are by far the worst drivers I've seen. Too many reckless morons behind the wheel who can't drive properly. Zero road skills or courtesy towards others. Stupid, selfish, idiotic....Thai.

[trogers]

I've been driving in Thailand for a/b 7+ years. Also road a "chopper" in BKK. I have NEVER seen such antics on the road as here. Up here in Isaan I think it's WORSE, if that is possible. Thais' seem to just do whatever they feel like doing re: operating a motor vehicle. Hell 6 year olds operate motorbikes here.... with a band of friends hanging all over the machine as well.

The most perplexing driving habit that I observe - perhaps - is making a right hand turn from the right hand land and onto the right hand lane of the street/road they turn into. Can this maneuver be explained? I really can not understand why they think this tactic is desirable. To do this is unimaginable (to me); THEN they seem genuinely SHOCKED when a vehicle (traveling in the left lane) nearly hits them.

I could go on but you most likely know the other usual driving infractions. With NO police enforcement it can seem like utter madness/chaos. Wouldn't self preservation prompt individuals to think a/b what might get them killed, and avoid that? I don't get it. Maybe you folks with more experience can clear this up for me. If so thanks in advance.

Well I guess the belief in karma and fate has a lot to do with the risks people take and I'm not kidding. The missus simply states that " if it happens it happens". They don't seem to give much thought to life except for the present moment I guess. Not that this comment helps you any as you may already know this...

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE 8.2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Tell your missus there is such a thing called 'tempting fate'. If not, she can practice crossing the road with eyes closed.

[A1Str8]

That's not true.

[bendare]

ive had 2 serious road accidents here in isaan, one which left me unconcious for 2 weeks. I still prefer to drive here than anywhere ive been in Europe. Corsica was more dangerous than here, in my opinion.

[seajae]

you really have to wonder at the mental ability of some riders.drivers. On the way to a mates place yesterday I was the front cat at a right turn waiting for the lights to change, there were a couple of bikes on my right side to do U turns. When the lights changed I started to drive forward to turn right into the street when a girl on a scooter came up on my left hand(the straight ahead lane) side and tried to do a U turn across the front of me while I was moving forward so I had to swerve to avoid the bike, when I hit the horn so she wouldnt crash into my car she started to abuse me, I simply flipped the bird rolled the window down and let her know exactly what I thought of her. It would be nice if these idiots actually knew the road laws and even better if they followed them and not made up their own as they go but there is little hope of that. For some reason some people think they have right of way always, couldnt believe how stupid this person was to try to turn across a moving vehicle.......

[bendare]

If you had hit her, she would probably want a hand out.

[claffey]

I would put 2 criteria into the mix.

1) A lot of motorbikes & a lot of SUVs - the two don't mix particularly well at speed

2) The main roads are pretty good here compared to other third world countries, therefore you can get a good head of steam up. I've noticed once they widen or relay a road it seems to get more dangerous as people can drive quicker on them.

'compared to other third world countries'! Am I reading this correctly? You've referred to Thailand as a third world country?!!Ha.. That old fashioned imperialistic categorizing of countries is a relic of the Cold War era. Anyone with any level of intelligence and global awareness would agree so. Thailand is far from being a 'third world' country. This country produces a large part of the world's rice, rubber, textiles etc etc.

Back to the topic at hand. Cambodia, Vietnam, and especially China are much more dangerous than here. These so called surveys are never a true reflection and only tools would believe them...

[claffey]

you really have to wonder at the mental ability of some riders.drivers. On the way to a mates place yesterday I was the front cat at a right turn waiting for the lights to change, there were a couple of bikes on my right side to do U turns. When the lights changed I started to drive forward to turn right into the street when a girl on a scooter came up on my left hand(the straight ahead lane) side and tried to do a U turn across the front of me while I was moving forward so I had to swerve to avoid the bike, when I hit the horn so she wouldnt crash into my car she started to abuse me, I simply flipped the bird rolled the window down and let her know exactly what I thought of her. It would be nice if these idiots actually knew the road laws and even better if they followed them and not made up their own as they go but there is little hope of that. For some reason some people think they have right of way always, couldnt believe how stupid this person was to try to turn across a moving vehicle.......

Did she try to come around you from behind or was she at the front left of your vehicle when the lights turned green. If she was slightly in front then she would assume she was there first! You should know better than to start confronting them. Someday someone will pull out a gun and shoot you!! Just breathe deeply and remember where you are...The chances of people learning the rules of the road here are very slim.It's better to accept that and just look after yourself!

[bendare]

True, it certainly wont change in any of our life times, Awareness is important driving here and if your aware then you should nt get road rage

Edited March 25, 2015 by bendare

[Asiantravel]

I would put 2 criteria into the mix.

1) A lot of motorbikes & a lot of SUVs - the two don't mix particularly well at speed

2) The main roads are pretty good here compared to other third world countries, therefore you can get a good head of steam up. I've noticed once they widen or relay a road it seems to get more dangerous as people can drive quicker on them.

'compared to other third world countries'! Am I reading this correctly? You've referred to Thailand as a third world country?!!Ha.. That old fashioned imperialistic categorizing of countries is a relic of the Cold War era. Anyone with any level of intelligence and global awareness would agree so. Thailand is far from being a 'third world' country. This country produces a large part of the world's rice, rubber, textiles etc etc.

Back to the topic at hand. Cambodia, Vietnam, and especially China are much more dangerous than here. These so called surveys are never a true reflection and only tools would believe them...

" Cambodia, Vietnam, and especially China are much more dangerous than here"

Can you please provide some evidence to back up your astonishing claim?

[Thai at Heart]

ive had 2 serious road accidents here in isaan, one which left me unconcious for 2 weeks. I still prefer to drive here than anywhere ive been in Europe. Corsica was more dangerous than here, in my opinion.

No dings in 17 years in Isaan, and if you think Europe is worse, I might suggest you need to.improve your driving skills and technique.

Particularly considering u have already had 2 major dings.

Thailand is a horrendously dangerous and stressful place to drive.

[bendare]

What i actually said was i prefer to drive here than in europe, maybe you need to re read the msg. no dings in 17 years either you sit at home all day or you ve been lucky. Just to clarify my dings as you call them were neither my fault, and unavoidable. so in that respect ive been unlucky. Of course it dangerous driving here.

[brling]

I would put 2 criteria into the mix.

1) A lot of motorbikes & a lot of SUVs - the two don't mix particularly well at speed

2) The main roads are pretty good here compared to other third world countries, therefore you can get a good head of steam up. I've noticed once they widen or relay a road it seems to get more dangerous as people can drive quicker on them.

'compared to other third world countries'! Am I reading this correctly? You've referred to Thailand as a third world country?!!Ha.. That old fashioned imperialistic categorizing of countries is a relic of the Cold War era. Anyone with any level of intelligence and global awareness would agree so. Thailand is far from being a 'third world' country. This country produces a large part of the world's rice, rubber, textiles etc etc.

Back to the topic at hand. Cambodia, Vietnam, and especially China are much more dangerous than here. These so called surveys are never a true reflection and only tools would believe them...

Wrong, only a tool of a Thai apologist would not want to believe them.

[retsdon]

I will state categorically that compared to Saudi drivers, 90% of Thais drive like senior Road Safety Officers on release from the Berkshire Constabulary.

[claffey]

I would put 2 criteria into the mix.

1) A lot of motorbikes & a lot of SUVs - the two don't mix particularly well at speed

2) The main roads are pretty good here compared to other third world countries, therefore you can get a good head of steam up. I've noticed once they widen or relay a road it seems to get more dangerous as people can drive quicker on them.

'compared to other third world countries'! Am I reading this correctly? You've referred to Thailand as a third world country?!!Ha.. That old fashioned imperialistic categorizing of countries is a relic of the Cold War era. Anyone with any level of intelligence and global awareness would agree so. Thailand is far from being a 'third world' country. This country produces a large part of the world's rice, rubber, textiles etc etc.

Back to the topic at hand. Cambodia, Vietnam, and especially China are much more dangerous than here. These so called surveys are never a true reflection and only tools would believe them...

Wrong, only a tool of a Thai apologist would not want to believe them.

I've lived in China before and the roads there, in my opinion,(this is a forum after all) are far more dangerous. The Chinese drive on the wrong side of the road constantly and pass out going around corners. Thai roads, in my experience, are safer. In Vietnam, as a pedestrian, the roads were impossible to cross. In Cambodia the roads are in a very poor condition...Do you think that all the statistics are accurate? Of course not.

I stick up for the country that we have all chosen to live in and I'm called a tool of an apologist. I think you'll find that your a tool for saying so!!

[seajae]

you really have to wonder at the mental ability of some riders.drivers. On the way to a mates place yesterday I was the front cat at a right turn waiting for the lights to change, there were a couple of bikes on my right side to do U turns. When the lights changed I started to drive forward to turn right into the street when a girl on a scooter came up on my left hand(the straight ahead lane) side and tried to do a U turn across the front of me while I was moving forward so I had to swerve to avoid the bike, when I hit the horn so she wouldnt crash into my car she started to abuse me, I simply flipped the bird rolled the window down and let her know exactly what I thought of her. It would be nice if these idiots actually knew the road laws and even better if they followed them and not made up their own as they go but there is little hope of that. For some reason some people think they have right of way always, couldnt believe how stupid this person was to try to turn across a moving vehicle.......

Did she try to come around you from behind or was she at the front left of your vehicle when the lights turned green. If she was slightly in front then she would assume she was there first! You should know better than to start confronting them. Someday someone will pull out a gun and shoot you!! Just breathe deeply and remember where you are...The chances of people learning the rules of the road here are very slim.It's better to accept that and just look after yourself!

from behind me, there was only the bikes on my right beside me at the time the lights changed and she wasnt in my mirror when I started to move so she must have come up pretty fast around the cars behind me. My reaction was probably more out of shock than anything else, couldnt believe that she tried to turn across me while I was actually moving forwards and expected me to slam the brakes on to let her do it.