The most dangerous countries to drive in; Thailand ranks #2

[simondan]

Queue the usual 'Thailand, hub of...' posts and other crap.

I have safely driven maybe three quarters of a million miles in Los between 1977 and now. There's probably some who have done even more.

Sure it would be very risky for someone who had never, driven in LOS to get behind the wheel of a car at Suvarnabhumi and drive to (say) Pai on the pre-Songkran weekend... but who on earth does that?

There's loads of stats on what kills the most foreigners in Thailand but I don't recall it being driving related. Even if we look at the very high risk motorcycle accident victim, outside the tourists spots, you don't see a lot of foreigners on 2-wheels.

Total rubbish

Couldn't agree more.

The old 'I've been driving for blah blah years and Im OK' argument is surely a bit old by now. For a number of reasons:

1. Well done - you are one of the 999, 957 or so who werent killed in an accident in Thailand in that year. Congrats on beating such overwhelming odds against survival.

2. The fact that you, one person, have driven safely for any amount of miles does not make the stats wrong or faulty or misleading. If they said you had a 100% chance of an accident you could claim that. Otherwise, you could just be lucky.

3. The stats are what they are. They dont say you have a high chance of being killed on the road in Thailand. They say that for that particular year LOS had the second highest fatality rate in the world. You are still more likely to live than die by a long way. Thats what the stats say.

4. However, even good drivers can be killed when other drivers on the road stuff up. Drink drivers, incompetently secured loads, hooning, poor vehicle maintenance etc all kill or maim many innocent drivers and their passengers every year, many no doubt with impeccable driving records. It can happen at any time regardless of accident free youve been in the past.

When you think that there are countries like Australia that have a road toll less than 1/6th of LOS then it is clear that if people in Thailand value the lives of their compatriots they have a lot of work to do to cut these senseless deaths. Like eliminate corruption in the traffic police, enforce traffic laws ruthlessly and fairly without fear nor favour (like thats going to happen!), educate drivers, educate the public to have zero tolerance of drink driving and speeding (and driving on the wrong side of the road, straddling lanes, reckless overtaking etc), have some realistic license tests (not focusing on dumb things like colour blindness and inaccurate reaction time tests), build roads that meet basic standards of safety etc.

The stats were for fatalities not accidents. There are generally at least one or two injured for every fatality, and many more 'accidents' (however you define that) per year. These injuries often cause untold suffering and cost for years afterward, and are where the major cost to society of vehicle accidents lie.

Im sure there are a hell of a lot of grieving relatives out there who would wonder what relevance your miraculous survival all these years has to the fact that more than 40 people died in that year in accidents that were preventable. Im wondering too.

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[robertthebruce]

What a depressingly negative thread, for the most part. If you guys don't like it here why stay?

Ok, thanks for the advice, i will go and buy my one way ticket now, any suggestions where i should go ??? , how about ''Disneyland'' ??, where you live... Duhhhh...

[simondan]

Keep this in mind - 44 per 100, 000 = 28, 600 if Thailand has 65 million.

28, 600 people alive right now who will die in the coming year, mostly due to preventable 'accidents'.

Thats an indictment on the Thai police, roads management dept, and the driving public here.

44 out of 100 000 is a lot of pain and suffering!

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Boxclever]

Clearly non of these polsters have driven a car in Cambodia or Vietnam for that matter.

Thailand's roads are MUCH safer.

[takkatan in the land]

What a depressingly negative thread, for the most part. If you guys don't like it here why stay?

maybe you did not understand why we complain.

If you choose a place to live it´s because you like in there, then consequently you worry about it and you try that place become better every day. That´s the reasonable way to act and sign of evolution.

But if contrarily you don´t care at all, you just don´t move any finger to try to change it, because it is nothing to do with you.

[Zendo]

When you pass examination driving test, the inspector is just watching you from outside... does that mean is too scared to be inside the car with you when you try parking the car ?

I don't think so .. but that means a lot about drivers skills : YES they are able to park a car on an empty parking , well done !

about being able to really drive a car on the road,, you have to learn it by yourself .. isn't it strange ?

[wilcopops]

When you pass examination driving test, the inspector is just watching you from outside... does that mean is too scared to be inside the car with you when you try parking the car ?

I don't think so .. but that means a lot about drivers skills : YES they are able to park a car on an empty parking , well done !

about being able to really drive a car on the road,, you have to learn it by yourself .. isn't it strange ?

Again pointless focusing on a single issue. In fact most Thais are rather good at driving in Thailand, it is foreigners who get upset. Implying that if Thai drivers were "better" would make the roads safer? There are no more or less stupid drivers in Thailand than any other country - so the solution must lie elsewhere.

Maybe there are other isuses involved???

Edited February 23, 2014 by wilcopops

[wilcopops]

Queue the usual 'Thailand, hub of...' posts and other crap.

I have safely driven maybe three quarters of a million miles in Los between 1977 and now. There's probably some who have done even more.

Sure it would be very risky for someone who had never, driven in LOS to get behind the wheel of a car at Suvarnabhumi and drive to (say) Pai on the pre-Songkran weekend... but who on earth does that?

There's loads of stats on what kills the most foreigners in Thailand but I don't recall it being driving related. Even if we look at the very high risk motorcycle accident victim, outside the tourists spots, you don't see a lot of foreigners on 2-wheels.

Total rubbish

Couldn't agree more.

The old 'I've been driving for blah blah years and Im OK' argument is surely a bit old by now. For a number of reasons:

1. Well done - you are one of the 999, 957 or so who werent killed in an accident in Thailand in that year. Congrats on beating such overwhelming odds against survival.

2. The fact that you, one person, have driven safely for any amount of miles does not make the stats wrong or faulty or misleading. If they said you had a 100% chance of an accident you could claim that. Otherwise, you could just be lucky.

3. The stats are what they are. They dont say you have a high chance of being killed on the road in Thailand. They say that for that particular year LOS had the second highest fatality rate in the world. You are still more likely to live than die by a long way. Thats what the stats say.

4. However, even good drivers can be killed when other drivers on the road stuff up. Drink drivers, incompetently secured loads, hooning, poor vehicle maintenance etc all kill or maim many innocent drivers and their passengers every year, many no doubt with impeccable driving records. It can happen at any time regardless of accident free youve been in the past.

When you think that there are countries like Australia that have a road toll less than 1/6th of LOS then it is clear that if people in Thailand value the lives of their compatriots they have a lot of work to do to cut these senseless deaths. Like eliminate corruption in the traffic police, enforce traffic laws ruthlessly and fairly without fear nor favour (like thats going to happen!), educate drivers, educate the public to have zero tolerance of drink driving and speeding (and driving on the wrong side of the road, straddling lanes, reckless overtaking etc), have some realistic license tests (not focusing on dumb things like colour blindness and inaccurate reaction time tests), build roads that meet basic standards of safety etc.

The stats were for fatalities not accidents. There are generally at least one or two injured for every fatality, and many more 'accidents' (however you define that) per year. These injuries often cause untold suffering and cost for years afterward, and are where the major cost to society of vehicle accidents lie.

Im sure there are a hell of a lot of grieving relatives out there who would wonder what relevance your miraculous survival all these years has to the fact that more than 40 people died in that year in accidents that were preventable. Im wondering too.

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

For those who still haven't fully grasped the fundamentals of road safety.....

1. Education

2. Enforcement

3. Engineering

4. Emergency

5. Evaluation

1.Education

This is fairly self-explanatory - people need to be told/shown how to drive and given the “tools” to share the road with other users - UK had several government TV campaigns in the 60s and 70s. Clever well thought out ads with a bit of humour that weren’t condescending and helped to establish the country as a safe place to drive. (Do you remember the elephant in the fog?).

The first people to educate in Thailand would be the police.

2.Enforcement

Again self-explanatory - but Thailand has the added problem of ingrained corruption, graft and briber which impedes this no matter how many laws are passed. The laws need to be reasonable applicable and equitably enforced too.

3. Engineering: - most critics of (Thai) road safety usually ignore this aspect of road safety.

Vehicle engineering - Safer car design and engineering: - car safety is both “passive” (seat belts, airbags and construction etc.) and “Active” (braking steering, handling, traction control etc.) these two are really interdependent now with so much computerised and hi-tech features on modern vehicles.

· Anti-locking brakes

· Traction control

· Air-bags

· Side impact bars

· AVCSS

· More reliable engine, tyres and components

· Vehicle dynamics in general (vary from UK and Thailand)

Of course roadworthiness checks are vital - but totally unenforced in Thailand.

Road Engineering -

The design and construction on the roads, bridges, junction, road surface, camber, drainage etc.

· The use of barriers (e.g. Armco), the removal of roadside hazards - e.g. trees or boulders on the side and centre of roads. The clearing of billboards and vegetation that obscure drivers’ vision

· Traffic - the use of lines, signs, bollards etc. etc. to dictate how and where the traffic flows and at what speed - virtually non-excitant in Thailand and seldom noticed by drivers in countries that make good use of it.

· The use of barriers (e.g. Armco), the removal of trees from the side and centre of roads. The clearing of billboards and vegetation that obscure drivers’ vision.

· Better infrastructure and engineering

· Better road surfaces

· Better signage

· More forgiving

· Traffic calming

· Shared space - keeping various road users apart is key to safety in some situations - if they are separated they can’t collide.

Like so many things on the roads in Thailand, the only reason that U-Turns happen is because the roads ALLOW it.... this is an engineering problem (and cost), not so much a driver problem.

4.Emergency

- What happens in the event of injury... this is a major factor in who lives or dies.

It has been well documented that the time between accident and getting treatment is crucial in the survival of RTI victims.

Treatment on the scene and reducing the time it takes to get the patient to hospital is vital. Thailand still has NO EFECTIVE UNIVERSAL EMERGENCY SERVICE!!

5.Evaluation

- How do we ascertain if measures are effective and what new ideas can be implemented.

Most governments have agencies of some sort that after engaging any road scheme, whether it is construction or a safety campaign, review in detail every aspect of that project; effects on local population, environment, accident statistics etc. etc. Statistics are gathered and monitored and appropriate action taken. - Whereas Thailand may nominally have such bodies their effectiveness is just about zero. Road safety in Thailand is left largely to ill-thought out, baseless pronouncements made by members of the government with little better to do.

[wilcopops]

You might notice under number 5 is included the emergent services - this is a major factor in survival after an RTA. The time taken to get an injured patient into hospital can have a major bearing on whether or not a patient goes into SHOCK resulting in death.

for this reason you need an centralised ambulance service, properly equipped accompanied by trained paramedics.

[solstan]

Check out Appendix A, page 38 , thats the complete list, there are a lot of stuff before that

Australia 7, Cambodia 15 - and as it states, the data is from WHO back in 2008
The problem with the Thai numbers are that they do not count someone that die at the hospital as a road accident, that may change but back in 2008 that was it. That makes me think that they are closer to beeing number one then second.

Bolivia and Peru are scary in the hill sides and so is "rural" Egypt as someone stated. But still, not close probably beacuse they dont travel that much for living their daily life as a lot of people do here?

Finally found the overall report and what strikes me is the lack of some countries, such as Lao, Cambodia, Myanmar, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Iran, Iraq......and no Australia or New Zealand. Put this report in the round file.

http://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/handle/2027.42/102731/102989.pdf

Fatality rate per 100,000 population from road crashes.

Rank Country Rate

1 Namibia 45

2 Thailand 44

3 Iran 38

4 Sudan 36

5 Swaziland 36

6 Venezuela 35

7 Congo 34

8 Malawi 32

9 Dominican Republic 32

10 Iraq 32

11 Central African Republic 32

12 Mongolia 31

13 Belize 31

14 Djibouti 30

15 Lesotho 30

16 Mozambique 30

17 Malaysia 30

18 El Salvador 29

19 Yemen 28

20 Ethiopia 28

21 Equatorial Guinea 28

22 Zambia 28

23 Guyana 27

24 Jordan 27

25 Angola 27

42 Brazil 22

44 China 22

World 18

76 India 17

82 South Korea 16

97 United States 14

110 Mexico 13

114 Argentina 12

150 Canada 8

160 Australia 7

161 France 7

168 Germany 6

169 Iceland 6

170 Singapore 6

171 Kiribati 6

172 Cook Islands 6

173 Denmark 6

174 Bosnia and Herzegovina 6

175 Macedonia 6

176 Haiti 5

177 Norway 5

178 Japan 5

179 Vanuatu 5

180 United Kingdom 5

181 Solomon Islands 5

182 Sweden 5

183 Guatemala 5

184 Switzerland 5

185 Netherlands 4

186 Antigua and Barbuda 4

187 Tonga 4

188 Israel 4

189 Marshall Islands 4

190 Fiji 4

191 Malta 3

192 Tajikistan 3

193 Maldives

[solstan]

I've been driving in Thailand for a/b 7+ years. Also road a "chopper" in BKK. I have NEVER seen such antics on the road as here. Up here in Isaan I think it's WORSE, if that is possible. Thais' seem to just do whatever they feel like doing re: operating a motor vehicle. Hell 6 year olds operate motorbikes here.... with a band of friends hanging all over the machine as well.

The most perplexing driving habit that I observe - perhaps - is making a right hand turn from the right hand land and onto the right hand lane of the street/road they turn into. Can this maneuver be explained? I really can not understand why they think this tactic is desirable. To do this is unimaginable (to me); THEN they seem genuinely SHOCKED when a vehicle (traveling in the left lane) nearly hits them.

I could go on but you most likely know the other usual driving infractions. With NO police enforcement it can seem like utter madness/chaos. Wouldn't self preservation prompt individuals to think a/b what might get them killed, and avoid that? I don't get it. Maybe you folks with more experience can clear this up for me. If so thanks in advance.

Most of your post is on the ball, but the one thing here is missing, the motor cyclist wanting to turn right. Mostly they stop on the left hand side of the road, turn their heads to see if anything is coming then cut straight across the road to turn. Most of us that were taught would keep to the near side and well before the right turn we check in the mirror/or look round, if clear signal and move to the extreme right before the turn.

This I have rarely seen BECAUSE they are NOT taught correct. look signal turn---is near non existent for most Thai.

The problem is that if you try to slow down in the right position on a highway with a bike you will probaby be hit from behind or front, even if you are signalling for a right turn. Thats why you cross when you can or stop before doing so ... survival instinct

[keemapoot]

Not sure if this is true everywhere in Thailand, but at least it seems to be getting harder to "buy" your drivers license. I know one young college student who failed her driving test and asked her mother to see if it was possible to buy the license as in the past as she just got a new car. Her mother asked around by those in the know, and evidently that common practice has been shut down. She will have to keep taking the test until she passes.

[solstan]

I would put 2 criteria into the mix.

1) A lot of motorbikes & a lot of SUVs - the two don't mix particularly well at speed

2) The main roads are pretty good here compared to other third world countries, therefore you can get a good head of steam up. I've noticed once they widen or relay a road it seems to get more dangerous as people can drive quicker on them.

SUVs, overloaded pickups and BIG trucks mixed with motorbikes - yes thats a potent mix.

Wide roads make good places for overtaking - oncoming traffic beware!

Ive driven a lot in Bangkok, its nice and one of the best places for a motorbike in Thailand. Rather safe and fast. When the trucks or buses come, stay clear. Bigger road, higher speed!

Around Phuket wouldnt recommend anyone I care about on a bike. The traffic and roads there are crazy, pure crazy! I havent been there that many times but saw about 2 accidents a day when travelling and a couple that probably didnt need an ambulance.

Up around Kalasin where Ive been spending most of my traffic time Ive tested the limits of my bike and varoius cars. I feel rather safe in a big pickup or SUV. I dont feel safe on my bike but after driving big and small bikes for many years back home I know how to adept. When visiting the closest city Ive seen about one accident every day, more when its raining. Some are just a bump others not so nice.

There are a lot of bad drivers in LOS, there are some good ones too. Most of the traffic here is some kind of agressive reactive but in a rather relaxed way. You handle what you see before you and dont really care about anything behind you except if its bigger then you-

Its hard to understand if you havent done it. But if your used to a lot of traffic back home in an intense tempo you will probably adept fine.

So, yes it is dangerous.

And yes, it can be safe for you if you behave and look out but you need to understand that the other ones dont care if you make it or not. If they save a minute or 2 before the next city then they will pass you, not caring if there is enough space or not.

If youre on a bike you are supposed to make room for a car from behind ... even if youre already doing well over a 100.

My driving teacher back in the days told me something that I took to fast: As long as you remember that all the others on the road probaly are idiots and that they dont see you and ride you bike accordingly you will live to see your children some day, if not youd better stick to drive a car.

[Thai at Heart]

I can tell you why this. it is because Thailand has made it easy for anyone to buy a car or truck and these people have no idea of what they are doing behind the wheel of it. They have not been to a drivers school, pay for their lience, and thei think they own the road when they are out there. They also can NOT judge distances at all when driving. They do not know nor care what the rules of the road are. Now this is just cars and trucks. Now motor cycles (scooters) are another topic altogether. They are cheap to buy and most people do not even have a drivers liecence.

Licences are just too easy to come by. Far too easy

[Zendo]

When you pass examination driving test, the inspector is just watching you from outside... does that mean is too scared to be inside the car with you when you try parking the car ?

I don't think so .. but that means a lot about drivers skills : YES they are able to park a car on an empty parking , well done !

about being able to really drive a car on the road,, you have to learn it by yourself .. isn't it strange ?

Again pointless focusing on a single issue. In fact most Thais are rather good at driving in Thailand, it is foreigners who get upset. Implying that if Thai drivers were "better" would make the roads safer? There are no more or less stupid drivers in Thailand than any other country - so the solution must lie elsewhere.

Maybe there are other isuses involved???

Is this Serious ?? Wake up guy this is not disneyland here not only foreigners are upset, In fact I don't know any Thai around my house who didn't get an accident, the old ones don't even want to go to the city : Chiang mai is too scary for them as they don't drive good : they know it , they tell me, and each time they go by car with me they are freaked out because i drive at 100km/h on highway, they never go faster than 60, 40 is their regular speed ! that is dangerous.

as for the driver license, of course it can improve a lot of the safety on the road, because for now it's just a parking test, not a driving test at all, if you have to pass a REAL test then it means you will have to learn the basics and train yourself for hours on the road, you'll face real dangerous situation and the teacher will be able to focus on many things you are not aware of.. well that is the point of learning.. but here it's pointless like you said they are the BEST (dead) drivers of the world ! I think that it's so sad that people can see things like this and believe in FREEDOM (to KILL eachothers), the road is not for kids and dreamers this is a really serious buisness, but of course YES there is some good drivers but so less...

To improve safety on highway, I think that it is not needed to have bars and so may things on the side of the road, the highway is not a parking place, how could it become like this, which mind from goverment let this happen, it shows how much respect this people have for those who vote for them.

One last thing, U turn here are like a gambling sport, Will I go ? will I not ? OK Let's GO and let bouddha be with me !.. so ridiculous, even on brand new roads that still exist, you can encounter drivers making uturn anytime, anywhere : the dedicated places and the zebras one or anywhere, hey this is Freedom ! right ?! sometimes you'll havecar driving at 5km/h to bite some space to enter in the fast lane from the right side of course ! and a huge truck on the left, and 2 motorbikes between... just have to be lucky to survive that's all.. the others should have bad karmas.. that's why they die !

...

[Fat Haggis]

Worst offenders for me are the HGV drivers, some are whacked out on Amphetamines and Red Bull!! Heading North up the 304 last week from Pattaya back to Chok Chai, they were overtaking uphill on blind corners, and then you had the same antics from the same group doing it down hill.

[ginjag]

I've been driving in Thailand for a/b 7+ years. Also road a "chopper" in BKK. I have NEVER seen such antics on the road as here. Up here in Isaan I think it's WORSE, if that is possible. Thais' seem to just do whatever they feel like doing re: operating a motor vehicle. Hell 6 year olds operate motorbikes here.... with a band of friends hanging all over the machine as well.

The most perplexing driving habit that I observe - perhaps - is making a right hand turn from the right hand land and onto the right hand lane of the street/road they turn into. Can this maneuver be explained? I really can not understand why they think this tactic is desirable. To do this is unimaginable (to me); THEN they seem genuinely SHOCKED when a vehicle (traveling in the left lane) nearly hits them.

I could go on but you most likely know the other usual driving infractions. With NO police enforcement it can seem like utter madness/chaos. Wouldn't self preservation prompt individuals to think a/b what might get them killed, and avoid that? I don't get it. Maybe you folks with more experience can clear this up for me. If so thanks in advance.

Most of your post is on the ball, but the one thing here is missing, the motor cyclist wanting to turn right. Mostly they stop on the left hand side of the road, turn their heads to see if anything is coming then cut straight across the road to turn. Most of us that were taught would keep to the near side and well before the right turn we check in the mirror/or look round, if clear signal and move to the extreme right before the turn.

This I have rarely seen BECAUSE they are NOT taught correct. look signal turn---is near non existent for most Thai.

The problem is that if you try to slow down in the right position on a highway with a bike you will probaby be hit from behind or front, even if you are signalling for a right turn. Thats why you cross when you can or stop before doing so ... survival instinct

I can understand what you mean, but this is the tried and tested mirror-signal maneuver method found to be the best way to do a right turn.

On the other hand everyone stopping at the left kerb, looking around before cutting across spell chaos and danger. Hence the reason the tried and tested highway code instruction is there. This code is in the Thai book.

Edited February 24, 2014 by ginjag

[ginjag]

Worst offenders for me are the HGV drivers, some are whacked out on Amphetamines and Red Bull!! Heading North up the 304 last week from Pattaya back to Chok Chai, they were overtaking uphill on blind corners, and then you had the same antics from the same group doing it down hill.

Those 3 highways are crazy---331----304----2, Jomptien -Udon Thani, I do the drive regular, We all know how dangerous it is, my biggest problem on these 3 roads are the cracks--potholes--motorbikes who are prevented from travelling in their lanes because of cars---stopped for rest---shopping at roadside stalls--or blocked and rubbish in their lane so they are forced to move into traffic.

Mini buses and buses and cars just travelling in offside lanes refusing to GET LEFT, then on other sections HAVING to use the offside because the nearside surface is dangerous.

Problem on the mountain stretch most is fantastic then all of a sudden parts become dangerous because these have not been widened-and all the fast traffic is held up with crawling vehicles. If only they would complete the lot.

[I knew this would happen]

Clearly non of these polsters have driven a car in Cambodia or Vietnam for that matter.

Thailand's roads are MUCH safer.

How does that help? Too many people die in accidents, if even more die somewhere else, how does that help??

We have to deal with the situation here, not with roads in India, Africa or Afghanistan, no matter how much worse they are.

And it´s not much fun to drive here, most drivers are idiots, period.

Sure, same old topic, same rant everytime. But it upsets me everyday again and again. Traffic is one reason I really hate this place for. Ok, living in BKK is no good idea anyway, but I have to.

[I knew this would happen]

Again pointless focusing on a single issue. In fact most Thais are rather good at driving in Thailand, it is foreigners who get upset. Implying that if Thai drivers were "better" would make the roads safer? There are no more or less stupid drivers in Thailand than any other country - so the solution must lie elsewhere.

Maybe there are other isuses involved???

Yes, they are good at driving in Thailand, but what they do in Thailand is a mix of The Need for Speed and Grand Theft Auto, not driving!

And if you drive better, less accidents happen. Sounds about right for me. So if the Thai licencse wouldn´t be on par with the Big C member card but harder to get because you need to show that you acutally can drive a car/motorbike the roads would be safer, wouldn´t they?

[VocalNeal]

I can understand what you mean, but this is the tried and tested mirror-signal maneuver method found to be the best way to do a right turn.

On the other hand everyone stopping at the left kerb, looking around before cutting across spell chaos and danger. Hence the reason the tried and tested highway code instruction is there. This code is in the Thai book.

Stopping in the middle of a busy Thai road on a motorbike is a recipe fort an early departure from this planet! The reasons the locals do what they do is just a survival tool. If there is a dedicated turning lane or U turn then the western method works.

On a busy road the safest way for anyone who rides is to pass the junction and take the next left turn around and rejoin the main road going the other way and then turn left OR traffic permitting, ride diagonally across the oncoming lane into a turning or open piece of ground on the right , turn around, go back and turn left. I re-emphasise this is for a regular two lane road with heavy traffic.

[wilcopops]

I really think that those posting their personal experiences should consider if their "offerings" are evidence of anything but but their own limited perception and analysis.

Personal experience is for the most part worthless especially when offered as a conclusive comment on a much, much bigger picture.

Of course you must be correct we should ignore those with experience who know what actually happens and accept the wildly exaggerated claims of those whose experience is limited to the media and holidays in Pattaya or Phuket. Well done wilcopops for coming up with this startling original and meaningless proposition.

You really don't gettit, which is the problem with most of the commentaries on road safety - "personal experience" is probably the worst way to examine any problem critically. If we did that most people would think the world was flat.

[wilcopops]

Again pointless focusing on a single issue. In fact most Thais are rather good at driving in Thailand, it is foreigners who get upset. Implying that if Thai drivers were "better" would make the roads safer? There are no more or less stupid drivers in Thailand than any other country - so the solution must lie elsewhere.

Maybe there are other isuses involved???

Yes, they are good at driving in Thailand, but what they do in Thailand is a mix of The Need for Speed and Grand Theft Auto, not driving!

And if you drive better, less accidents happen. Sounds about right for me. So if the Thai licencse wouldn´t be on par with the Big C member card but harder to get because you need to show that you acutally can drive a car/motorbike the roads would be safer, wouldn´t they?

"And if you drive better, less accidents happen. Sounds about right for me" - totally subjective comment without any credible rationale.

Edited February 24, 2014 by wilcopops

[wilcopops]

Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?

Edited February 24, 2014 by metisdead
Bold font removed.

[wilcopops]

“The one thing that unites all human beings, regardless of age, gender, religion, economic status, or ethnic background, is that, deep down inside, we all believe that we are above-average drivers.”

Edited February 24, 2014 by metisdead
Bold font removed.

[wilcopops]

Some observations resulting from research done by the Centre for Transport and Society - UK....

The public know that driver behaviour is a major contributory factor in the vast majority of road accidents...

(Cauzard, 2003)

But there is a consistent view that OTHERS drive in a more risky manner than individuals themselves do

(King and Parker, 2008)

Not just driving – older children and adolescents think they have good attitude and skills towards road safety but believe that others especially those in their peer group do not

(Tolmie. 2006).

Individuals do not believe they are dangerous on the roads but at the same time fervently believe others are.

· I am not likely to be responsible for an accident; others are likely to be responsible. Therefore little I can do.

· Hence, less likely to need to “plan to avoid them”

· Campaigns aimed at dangerous driving are for “other” drivers not themselves.

· Such campaigns re-emphasise this difference (2CV, 2008 and Flaming Research, 2008)

· The third-person effect (Davison, 1983).

· High support for enforcement, engineering solutions and education

· But not for themselves - for other people.

one wonders if some posters recognise themselves in this? Probably those most in denial?

Edited February 24, 2014 by metisdead
Bold font removed.

[ginjag]

I can understand what you mean, but this is the tried and tested mirror-signal maneuver method found to be the best way to do a right turn.

On the other hand everyone stopping at the left kerb, looking around before cutting across spell chaos and danger. Hence the reason the tried and tested highway code instruction is there. This code is in the Thai book.

Stopping in the middle of a busy Thai road on a motorbike is a recipe fort an early departure from this planet! The reasons the locals do what they do is just a survival tool. If there is a dedicated turning lane or U turn then the western method works.

On a busy road the safest way for anyone who rides is to pass the junction and take the next left turn around and rejoin the main road going the other way and then turn left OR traffic permitting, ride diagonally across the oncoming lane into a turning or open piece of ground on the right , turn around, go back and turn left. I re-emphasise this is for a regular two lane road with heavy traffic.

Agree with what you say up to a point, your way is a way out of the danger you speak, BUT they are going to get wiped up probably which comes down to the other road users not driving correctly.

Here it is self preservation -sure.

So the point then is what to do about the other drivers that make the right turn hazardous ?? Do we throw the book out of the window because if you drive correctly it is dangerous ??? Tuition--Police --Schooling---Parental guidance is a no no as they are the ones that seem not to care-or are not taught to guide their offspring correctly. (in most cases) that is why Thailand is near topping the league tables in most dangerous subjects---killings--deaths/traffic--drugs.

[Zendo]

“The one thing that unites all human beings, regardless of age, gender, religion, economic status, or ethnic background, is that, deep down inside, we all believe that we are above-average drivers.”

By posting that you prove that Thai People also have the same problem, they believe they're good !! but without any training... and no rules to follow.. and no government to explain and help to increase the security on roads.Please make the addition of all these things and and you'll find he truth about DANGER on the road here..

Best Regards

PS : by the way : are you, yourself in personn, driving everyday here on main roads ? if so.. I hope you also have your car protected by monks and all the amulettes needed to be safe in all cases, that also works well like theses stats show us. GOOD luck

[mojorison]

Alcohol, no helmets, and the fact that the focus is on everything but the road ahead. The roads are an ideal forum for discussing boys/girls, fashion, the weather. The roads are not a means from traveling between points A and B, they are for use as a social medium. The fact that most Thais are unlicensed, and nearly all are inept, makes driving a very fluid activity. Thais don't park - they stop. Thais can't walk more than 3 meters from where they "stop" the car to where they want to be. Thais turn right from the left lane. The golden rule of driving in Thailand is "DON'T STOP - DON'T LOOK" or the other way around, depending. Drive as fast as you can, or as slow as you want. If you understand all these things, driving here is a breeze.

[Artist]

I really think that those posting their personal experiences should consider if their "offerings" are evidence of anything but but their own limited perception and analysis.

Personal experience is for the most part worthless especially when offered as a conclusive comment on a much, much bigger picture.

Of course you must be correct we should ignore those with experience who know what actually happens and accept the wildly exaggerated claims of those whose experience is limited to the media and holidays in Pattaya or Phuket. Well done wilcopops for coming up with this startling original and meaningless proposition.

You really don't gettit, which is the problem with most of the commentaries on road safety - "personal experience" is probably the worst way to examine any problem critically. If we did that most people would think the world was flat.

It was the explorers sailing their ships around the world who through experience proved that the world was spherical not the theorists sitting at their computers in cosy little houses and pontificating about the real world