"Entertainment WP"

[banglassie]

Ok, so this question have come up before. But I haven't found any concrete answers, and it all seems quite diffuse to me (as the rules of Thailand generally seem, at least to me...)

So here is my thought:

I worked for years in the entertainment business in Scandinavia as a freelancer. Playing in various bars, restaurants and concerts. Everything from own written songs to hits in various languages, including English, Scandinavian (Swedish/Norwegian/Danish), Spanish and on private occasions I've been singing Thai songs as well as a few Khmer.

I have been asked if I want to take over while the band take a few minutes off in various bars around Thailand, only for fun, however as far as I can see even this non-profit act would theoretically be illegal without a WP.

So, are there any alternatives or loopholes? I'm thinking in the terms of making a Demo CD and offer every place I visit to play for free a whole evening and let them decide from there. So lets say a few of them likes what I do and want me to come back? I know the payment would be shitty as crap in about the 500 baht/evening range (compared with the 20,000 baht/evening in Scandinavia.., but that doesn't really matter.

Could I get some kind of 'Entertainment WP' for these instances? The biggest problem I guess would be that it could include multiple bars/places. And as far as I have understood it I need to get hired by one specific place in order to get a WP, I would also need a Non-Imm B Visa, which seems practically impossible to obtain for something like this.

I have seen countless westerners play for fun around in different bars in Thailand, many get nothing more than tip, but to my knowledge this remains illegal.

Could I offer a bar to pay for all the costs involved and hire a lawyer or similar to sort out the paperwork if they hired me without a basic salary? And if so, would I still need a Non-Imm B Visa before hand although we are talking about temporary works?

I don't worry too much about the legal aspect of it all, but if a guy can get blacklisted for what could have been 'accidental' stealing a towel from a hotel I bet anything goes if you meet the wrong guy at the wrong time. Better to be safe than sorry since I want this to continue be my home..

Since I don't have much more than 100,000 that I could invest now it seems completely impossible to start anything or get anything going by any means. My experiences from before all involve kitchen work and customer service, which isn't of much help.

I'm soon holding a TEFL but no Bachelor, which again, especially as a non-native speaker, will reduce my opportunities with about 80%
however the director at Text & Talk assures me that I should not worry, and that there are more instances than one would think where people where able to obtain a WP from a school that wanted them although no degree was shown.

I have also met people holding WP's who never finished more than high-school, but somehow managed to appear attractive enough for the school to sort out a WP for them, how that is done I have no idea since the law states a Degree above High-school is mandatory, and I have hard to see how the Ministry of education would accept a WP without following up to the criteria, but then again Thai Laws have always been a mystery to me. While listening to people here everything seems impossible and the tone is generally pessimistic from the beginning, which I would assume is a result from personal experiences. However on the streets I have met the complete different situation where people find it weird why I would worry at all...

Thanks for taking the time to go through all my rabble. Happy to hear any inputs

[Mario2008]

Not seen many posts about this, so know very little. But believe most people in entertainment business work through an agency.

For a normal school (elementary and secondary) you must have a degree, but there are many other kind of schools for which you don't need a degree as they don't fall under the OBEC but a different department.

[Arkady]

There has been much talk of a freelancer work permit since WP application forms appeared to introduce categories for people without employers or with employers that are overseas companies and some Labour Ministry officials have been quoted as saying regulations for this have not been written yet. So far nothing has come of it so far. Someone in a TV thread said he had managed to get a WP as free lancer but he is working free lance for a government department.

Technically for musicians it seems still impossible to get a freelance WP. One of the problems is that each and every location you work at must be recorded in your WP and it is illegal to work anywhere that is not listed in it. Entertainment workers are usually hired legally by large companies like hotels that have a resident band and pay them them a monthly salary. Alternatively short term WPs can be organized by overseas artists for concerts. There was a bar owner in Chiang Mai who claimed he got a WP as the manager of his bar and as a musician but, there again, it was for the one location.

Foreigners have been arrested and carted off just for jamming on stage in a bar for one song. It doesn't matter if you are paid or not, it can still be counted as work under the Working of Aliens Act, certainly as far as the police are concerned. One "jammer" opted to plead not guilty in Chiang Mai and the judge acquitted him on the grounds that it was no different from a karaoke. Most of those arrested have not dared plead not guilty for fear of stiffer penalties and in recent times have been fined B1,000 as first time offenders without being deported or blacklisted. Chiang Mai has a history of these foreign musician purges but they have also taken place in Phuket, Bangkok & etc. Sometimes police send notices to bar owners that foreign musicans caught on stage will be arrested. However, this may just be an excuse to up the protection money for bars known to use foreign musicians, as bars in those precints have continued to use foreign musicians regardless. There are a lot of Filipino musicians hanging around in Thailand doing illegal freelance work, in addition to the large number who work legally in hotels, and of course they are less obvious than farang musicians.

The bottom line is that, if you want to play freelance, you will have to take the risk. The downside is not likely to be too severe for the first offence, if you are arrested, but it will be a hassle and wil be worse if you are arrested a second time. The chances of this happening outside Chiang Mai are at the present time fairly remote but things can change suddenly. There are plently of bars in Bakk that give regular gigs farang bands and even advertise them and there is no way they can possibly have WPs to work as musicians in those locations. Don't worry too much but be aware of the risks, if you decide to go ahead.

[riclag]

Op Do you have a sample of your talents on Youtube? Seriously ! Pm me