Divided Thailand faces warnings of civil war

[mrtoad]

It will only get worse with morons like Suporn Attawong fueling the fires of hatred. Now looking to recruit 600,000 men for the red shirt cause.

[Dogmatix]

Elections don't always lead to democracy, says Kerry

The Nation website

February 27, 2014 4:01 pm

US Secretary of State John Kerry spoke passionately Wednesday about the "incredible yearning for modernity" sweeping across the world, warning that free elections do not necessarily usher in true democracy in many countries.

The months of protests in Ukraine that led to the ousting of president Viktor Yanukovych were just one example of "people power" in recent months.

Such protests were "a reflection of this incredible yearning for modernity, for change, for choice, for empowerment of individuals that is moving across the world, and in many cases moving a lot faster than political leadership is either aware of or able to respond to," the top US diplomat told a small group of reporters.

The ousting of Yanukovych, like July’s toppling of Egypt’s first democratically elected president Mohamed Morsi, proved that elections by themselves were not always enough.

"A democracy is not defined solely by an election," the top US diplomat argued.

"You can have a democratically elected government, but you don’t have democratically-instituted reforms that actually give you a democracy, a full, practicing, functioning democracy," Kerry said.

"And what you have in many places is a general election, a popular election, absent reform, present with great corruption, great cronyism and a huge distortion of democratic process."

Since the start of the so-called Arab Spring in 2011, the United States has sought to support countries and their fledgling democracies as they emerge from under decades of autocratic rule.

But many Middle Eastern and North African nations are still grappling with the fallout of their political upheavals, and the overall results of democracy building have been patchy.

Washington froze most of its military aid to Egypt in October after the military-appointed leaders failed to turn the country back towards democracy following Morsi’s fall, which the Obama administration has pointedly refused to term "a coup."

Kerry said that what had happened in Egypt was "a significant movement away from democracy by decree."

Yanukovych was elected in close presidential elections in 2010 in the former Soviet satellite.

He narrowly defeated his 2004 Orange Revolution co-leader Yulia Tymoshenko, who he later threw behind bars.

"In Ukraine, you had this incredible kleptocracy going on, with no real representation, no voice for the opposition, no willingness to listen to the opposition, in fact they jailed them instead. That’s not democracy," Kerry said.

Edited February 27, 2014 by Dogmatix

[DrTuner]

Kerry seems to be on the ball, Thailand is about the enter the "Asian Spring". My next bet is Indonesia.

Edited February 27, 2014 by DrTuner

[dcutman]

Elections don't always lead to democracy, says Kerry

The Nation website

February 27, 2014 4:01 pm

US Secretary of State John Kerry spoke passionately Wednesday about the "incredible yearning for modernity" sweeping across the world, warning that free elections do not necessarily usher in true democracy in many countries.

The months of protests in Ukraine that led to the ousting of president Viktor Yanukovych were just one example of "people power" in recent months.

Such protests were "a reflection of this incredible yearning for modernity, for change, for choice, for empowerment of individuals that is moving across the world, and in many cases moving a lot faster than political leadership is either aware of or able to respond to," the top US diplomat told a small group of reporters.

The ousting of Yanukovych, like July’s toppling of Egypt’s first democratically elected president Mohamed Morsi, proved that elections by themselves were not always enough.

"A democracy is not defined solely by an election," the top US diplomat argued.

"You can have a democratically elected government, but you don’t have democratically-instituted reforms that actually give you a democracy, a full, practicing, functioning democracy," Kerry said.

"And what you have in many places is a general election, a popular election, absent reform, present with great corruption, great cronyism and a huge distortion of democratic process."

Since the start of the so-called Arab Spring in 2011, the United States has sought to support countries and their fledgling democracies as they emerge from under decades of autocratic rule.

But many Middle Eastern and North African nations are still grappling with the fallout of their political upheavals, and the overall results of democracy building have been patchy.

Washington froze most of its military aid to Egypt in October after the military-appointed leaders failed to turn the country back towards democracy following Morsi’s fall, which the Obama administration has pointedly refused to term "a coup."

Kerry said that what had happened in Egypt was "a significant movement away from democracy by decree."

Yanukovych was elected in close presidential elections in 2010 in the former Soviet satellite.

He narrowly defeated his 2004 Orange Revolution co-leader Yulia Tymoshenko, who he later threw behind bars.

"In Ukraine, you had this incredible kleptocracy going on, with no real representation, no voice for the opposition, no willingness to listen to the opposition, in fact they jailed them instead. That’s not democracy," Kerry said.

"A democracy is not defined solely by an election," the top US diplomat argued.

"You can have a democratically elected government, but you don’t have democratically-instituted reforms that actually give you a democracy, a full, practicing, functioning democracy," Kerry said.

"And what you have in many places THAILAND is a general election, a popular election, absent reform, present with great corruption, great cronyism and a huge distortion of democratic process."

Thailand is one of those many

[dcutman]

It will only get worse with morons like Suporn Attawong fueling the fires of hatred. Now looking to recruit 600,000 men for the red shirt cause.

The scary thing is he is only one of many.

I think it about time to seriously consider an exit strategy from the LOS.

[brownbear]

Excuse me if I am repeating what someone else has said but I could not wade through the BS and rhetoric without falling asleep.

Last time the red shirts and the army clashed the former collapsed like a house of cards within minutes, despite being well entrenched and with a much larger 'silent' support base than they have now. What on earth makes them think they can now take on the army unless through 'terrorist' means when they do not at all have anything like the 'silent' support they had then?

Talk of creating a separate state would appear to equate to 'treason' in farang terms but that aside for now.

Whilst I can understand the hesitance of the military to get involved, I do wonder what their motivations are. We can all speculate of course. Unfortunately the only judge may prove to be history. How about this for a futuristic comment in a history data base:

In 2014 Bangkok burned whilst the military, the only party able to make a difference at the time, chose to remain uninvolved whilst scores of innocent civilians, apart from the participant hard line factions on both sides of the conflict, were massacred. Corruption and self interest remain the most likely factors but apart from the destruction of, or, lack of access to relevant records by independent international agencies, combined with the difficulties of translation from Thai to English, the truth will probably never be known. Thailand is now a minor player in the ASEAN community and insignificant in ASIAN terms.

(All my own BS so please don't accuse me of passing off!).

Edited February 27, 2014 by brownbear

[DrTuner]

The problem with the army is likely the growing number of "watermelons" in their own ranks. This is what's different since the last bonfire party in BKK.

The way getting drafted can be avoided with some money under the table has probably contributed to this.

Edited February 27, 2014 by DrTuner

[Fookhaht]

So split it. Into three parts, north, south and BKK. They already feel a world apart.

Can't (legally). It's unconstitutional. Only a civil war could bring that about.

[zakk9]

It will only get worse with morons like Suporn Attawong fueling the fires of hatred. Now looking to recruit 600,000 men for the red shirt cause.

The scary thing is he is only one of many.

I think it about time to seriously consider an exit strategy from the LOS.

There's no chance that they will be able to recruit 600,000 people. But even if they only recruit 6,000, or 600 for that matter, they can still run around in Isan and terrorize those who express other views than the official red Shirt dribble. That is in itself a scary thought.