Chiang Mai University to curb onslaught of Chinese tourists

[harleyclarkey]

"Mr. Rome said he hoped the case would serve as a "lesson" to other Chinese visitors."

What? To the 1,299,999,996 other Chinese? Might take a bit of time for the word to get around.

[harrry]

harrry, on 27 Feb 2014 - 07:15, said:

While I understand the problem I do not like the solution. Universities should be open. THe libraries should be a resource for all. CMU ever since its disgusting treatment of the students at CMU Language Institute seems a more and more xenaphobic place ( and I do not use that word in relation to anywhere or anyone else in Thailand).

Just curious, what are you referring to at the Language Institute?

search the forum and you will find out how they got all students visas cancelled and stopped their courses without refund (many got refunds through credit cards and a few through the courts).

CMU was not directly involved as I recall....it was in fact a Farang who ran the language course,collected the tuitions and then flew the coop.

Read the facts.....they are not as you have stated.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/395023-cmu-fails-to-provide-visa-support-documents/

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/404148-latest-developments-at-cmu-thai-course/page-2

Edited February 27, 2014 by harrry

[Rorri]

brit1984, on 27 Feb 2014 - 13:10, said:

Rorri, on 27 Feb 2014 - 10:10, said:

brit1984, on 27 Feb 2014 - 09:04, said:brit1984, on 27 Feb 2014 - 09:04, said:

as a student, i found it very annoying having tourists (mostly americans) taking photos of everything while i was trying to go about my day

any uni in the world that is worth visiting should have strict rules on where / when visitors can enter, and should certainly charge for the privilege

if chiang mai university is really so picturesque, i'm shocked they allow tourists to roam around for free

Your first sentence is ridiculous, you are only "distracted" if you choose to be. Many universities have "Photography" students, who simply by their course are out taking photos. Do these also "distract" you?

there were no photography students at my university and if there had been they would have been well out-numbered by the hoards of tourists...

how could i ignore them when they were blocking paths / walkways / tunnels / archways through which i needed to walk to go to my room / tutorial / lectures? even if they were not literally blocking the way, i would need to decide between crossing them and disrupting their photo (and then feeling guilty) or waiting for them to take their photo (and losing time)...

while i understand universities have multiple roles to play in society (aside from simply being places of learning) there needs to be a balance and the negative impact that visitors have on the students should definitely be controlled and / or compensated through extra revenue for the university

Now you change your story, from them being distracting to impeding you. It was your choice not to exert your right of passage, you should have taken your normal route, it this disturbed the photographers, then so be it. For some reason I think you a exaggerating things, I'm sure if the photographers became a problem then the Uni security would have moved them on.

[Thakkar]

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Mr. Rome said disguising oneself in a CMU student uniform without proper reasons is punishable by a maximum penalty of 1 year in prison or 100,000 baht fine........hahahahaha, you should lock up the so called real students as well

Good grief, so would it also be illegal if I managed to persuade the wife to wear a school uniform of an evening?

I can't help thinking they are just making it up as they go along. I really find it hard to believe that there is an actual law stating it is illegal to wear a school uniform. Only in Thailand.

Phew! Mrs. T and I are fine as long as they don't have a law against slutty nurse/horny doctor uniforms.

T

[harrry]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Mr. Rome said disguising oneself in a CMU student uniform without proper reasons is punishable by a maximum penalty of 1 year in prison or 100,000 baht fine........hahahahaha, you should lock up the so called real students as well

Good grief, so would it also be illegal if I managed to persuade the wife to wear a school uniform of an evening?

I can't help thinking they are just making it up as they go along. I really find it hard to believe that there is an actual law stating it is illegal to wear a school uniform. Only in Thailand.

Phew! Mrs. T and I are fine as long as they don't have a law against slutty nurse/horny doctor uniforms.

T

Just be careful if you have a heart attack that Mrs T does not forget that the Doctor's uniform she is wearing is just pretend.

[brit1984]

brit1984, on 27 Feb 2014 - 13:10, said:

Rorri, on 27 Feb 2014 - 10:10, said:

brit1984, on 27 Feb 2014 - 09:04, said:brit1984, on 27 Feb 2014 - 09:04, said:

as a student, i found it very annoying having tourists (mostly americans) taking photos of everything while i was trying to go about my day

any uni in the world that is worth visiting should have strict rules on where / when visitors can enter, and should certainly charge for the privilege

if chiang mai university is really so picturesque, i'm shocked they allow tourists to roam around for free

Your first sentence is ridiculous, you are only "distracted" if you choose to be. Many universities have "Photography" students, who simply by their course are out taking photos. Do these also "distract" you?

there were no photography students at my university and if there had been they would have been well out-numbered by the hoards of tourists...

how could i ignore them when they were blocking paths / walkways / tunnels / archways through which i needed to walk to go to my room / tutorial / lectures? even if they were not literally blocking the way, i would need to decide between crossing them and disrupting their photo (and then feeling guilty) or waiting for them to take their photo (and losing time)...

while i understand universities have multiple roles to play in society (aside from simply being places of learning) there needs to be a balance and the negative impact that visitors have on the students should definitely be controlled and / or compensated through extra revenue for the university

Now you change your story, from them being distracting to impeding you. It was your choice not to exert your right of passage, you should have taken your normal route, it this disturbed the photographers, then so be it. For some reason I think you a exaggerating things, I'm sure if the photographers became a problem then the Uni security would have moved them on.

i never said "distracting", that was your word... the tourists are both a problem (annoying students) and a benefit (as they provide huge income to the university and the city) which is why there are strict rules (and charges) which apply to when and where they can go and take photographs... but they are still around and still annoying (but at least the university and therefore the students get something back in return and we all understood that)... which is why this is the sensible approach from chiang mai uni

[Thakkar]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Mr. Rome said disguising oneself in a CMU student uniform without proper reasons is punishable by a maximum penalty of 1 year in prison or 100,000 baht fine........hahahahaha, you should lock up the so called real students as well

Good grief, so would it also be illegal if I managed to persuade the wife to wear a school uniform of an evening?

I can't help thinking they are just making it up as they go along. I really find it hard to believe that there is an actual law stating it is illegal to wear a school uniform. Only in Thailand.

Phew! Mrs. T and I are fine as long as they don't have a law against slutty nurse/horny doctor uniforms.

T

Just be careful if you have a heart attack that Mrs T does not forget that the Doctor's uniform she is wearing is just pretend.

Yigads, Harry, do you work for The NSA?? How did you know?

T

[Mapguy]

Is this the University where a professor with a PhD said she HATED farang?

No, it isn't. And the university which employed that person, a very junior lecturer (graduate student) in a science discipline, was greatly embarrassed by her opinions and how they were made public.

Edited February 27, 2014 by Mapguy

[Mapguy]

The conversation on this problem that CMU is apparently experiencing has become more than a little bizarre, such as alluding to dressing up in various costumes for various photo opportunities and other things, perhaps some kinky! Conversations here certainly take curious twists and turns.

While I do not applaud the things that CMU has decided to implement, I am sympathetic to the administration for trying to get a handle on the problem that they are experiencing. There is, if you have really checked it out, an accommodation for casual visitors, who are after all the cause of the problem, but it is truly awkward --- at best! I think there could be a better policy and action, but some CMU administrators are definitely not known for sensible public relations practices.

My guess is that some CMU staff and administration, including senior administrators, are as culturally insensitive, in some ways, as their casual visitors from China. First, of course, CMU should be flattered by the attention! In the future, it will build enrollment. That will delight them. To take a couple of rather innocent dress-up visitors to a police station to teach them and others a lesson ?! That preposterous act belongs on the front page of major Chinese newspapers if you want the news to reach a broad audience. Guess what other general reactions there might be ?! On the basis of the information available, it appears to have been a grossly culturally ignorant thing to do. So, if the lesson is disseminated, what will that do to improve the university's reputation? One would hope that the higher administrative posts at the university would be filled with more intelligent bureaucrats with more common sense.

Not as an afterthought is that the Chinese government is also distressed that so many Chinese tourists are having difficulty dealing with the customs of other countries. And it has been trying to educate tourists going abroad to be more careful and respectful. Because of a popular movie (relevant to Chiang Mai) and because of new wealth, more Chinese are traveling abroad. If anything, look more seriously at what that means. It suggests that Chinese people, generally extraordinarily isolated and generally very poor compared to many (certainly those posting here) for more than fifty years and having undergone (if you know any history at all) extraordinary outrageous policies of their government, are now able to go explore. That is phenomenal, and it would be wonderful if people who have not undergone so much in the past would welcome them and, in a helpful way, give them some help on how to behave, if that is necessary. And that is absolutely not always the case. For a society as polite as Thai society, I do not find the reception of CMU very sensitive, as I have indicated before, thoughtful, or hospitable. Actually, mostly stupidly awkward, reflecting the kind of cultural ignorance as those who have been visitors!

[harrry]

A bit hard to reconcile this with:

http://www.cmu.ac.th/hotnews_extra_detail_eng.php?act_id=2

[VegasVic]

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Those "quality tourists" not behaving themselves?

Chinese tours described as quality tourists

[VegasVic]

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as a student, i found it very annoying having tourists (mostly americans) taking photos of everything while i was trying to go about my day

any uni in the world that is worth visiting should have strict rules on where / when visitors can enter, and should certainly charge for the privilege

if chiang mai university is really so picturesque, i'm shocked they allow tourists to roam around for free

and how do you know they were mostly Americans? Not many Americans come here to take pictures at a university and not many American come here at all due to the distance.

Buddy is correct, Americans in Chiang Mai are a small minority not only in the expat community here, but amongst visiting tourists as well, and I can't remember the last time I saw a group of Americans on the University campus. The one thing that I am quite certain about is that the American tourists who do visit Chiang Mai are not urinating and defecating on the sidewalks and in the parks like the Chinese tourists regularly do I must say that for years I thought that Korean tourists were the lowest form of life in S.E. Asia, however the Chinese seem to be putting the Koreans to shame with their disgusting behavior.

[muchogra]

I took some of my foreign friends visiting different places in CM the past few days. At the Phuping Palace, further up Doi Suthep, foreigners are B50 and B20 for Thais. I accepted it. At the Samkampaeng Hot Spring, what used to be B40 for foreigners is now B100, and B40 versus B20 for the Thais. For the CM Zoo, my daughter was initially asked for B290. My daughter read Thai and queried why it was written in Thai (in Thai alphabet or numerals) that it said B100. She was pointed to the other windows in the back, and she paid B100. Well, my friends were sporty and didn't complain much about the price but did point out that the Chinese are making things more expensive - USA, Canada, HK, Singapore, etc. Have you seen cash in a suitcase to buy a condo in HK and Singapore? I have. My in-laws' condo up in the hill in HK, a parking space runs you close to USD200,000. The graveyard where my wife's brother is buried, you couldn't buy one there for USD400k! For me, it's better be in Thailand and live a frugal life! And for those who say the Chinese don't spend, you haven't seen nothing yet!

[VegasVic]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I took some of my foreign friends visiting different places in CM the past few days. At the Phuping Palace, further up Doi Suthep, foreigners are B50 and B20 for Thais. I accepted it. At the Samkampaeng Hot Spring, what used to be B40 for foreigners is now B100, and B40 versus B20 for the Thais. For the CM Zoo, my daughter was initially asked for B290. My daughter read Thai and queried why it was written in Thai (in Thai alphabet or numerals) that it said B100. She was pointed to the other windows in the back, and she paid B100. Well, my friends were sporty and didn't complain much about the price but did point out that the Chinese are making things more expensive - USA, Canada, HK, Singapore, etc. Have you seen cash in a suitcase to buy a condo in HK and Singapore? I have. My in-laws' condo up in the hill in HK, a parking space runs you close to USD200,000. The graveyard where my wife's brother is buried, you couldn't buy one there for USD400k! For me, it's better be in Thailand and live a frugal life! And for those who say the Chinese don't spend, you haven't seen nothing yet!

You are comparing apples to oranges my friend I have no doubt that those upper and upper middle class Chinese that are able to get their cash out of the mainland are certainly paying astronomical prices for anything they can get their hands on in HK and Singapore ( not too mention diamonds, colored gems and gold) since there are no safe investments left on the mainland, however these are not the chinese tourists who are frequenting Chiang Mai The chinese tour groups coming to Chiang Mai are the ones who can barely afford a cheap vacation and they are light years away both in spending terms and in social skills than the ones you describe in HK and Singapore

[muchogra]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I took some of my foreign friends visiting different places in CM the past few days. At the Phuping Palace, further up Doi Suthep, foreigners are B50 and B20 for Thais. I accepted it. At the Samkampaeng Hot Spring, what used to be B40 for foreigners is now B100, and B40 versus B20 for the Thais. For the CM Zoo, my daughter was initially asked for B290. My daughter read Thai and queried why it was written in Thai (in Thai alphabet or numerals) that it said B100. She was pointed to the other windows in the back, and she paid B100. Well, my friends were sporty and didn't complain much about the price but did point out that the Chinese are making things more expensive - USA, Canada, HK, Singapore, etc. Have you seen cash in a suitcase to buy a condo in HK and Singapore? I have. My in-laws' condo up in the hill in HK, a parking space runs you close to USD200,000. The graveyard where my wife's brother is buried, you couldn't buy one there for USD400k! For me, it's better be in Thailand and live a frugal life! And for those who say the Chinese don't spend, you haven't seen nothing yet!

You are comparing apples to oranges my friend I have no doubt that those upper and upper middle class Chinese that are able to get their cash out of the mainland are certainly paying astronomical prices for anything they can get their hands on in HK and Singapore ( not too mention diamonds, colored gems and gold) since there are no safe investments left on the mainland, however these are not the chinese tourists who are frequenting Chiang Mai The chinese tour groups coming to Chiang Mai are the ones who can barely afford a cheap vacation and they are light years away both in spending terms and in social skills than the ones you describe in HK and Singapore

You say I'm comparing apples to oranges when I merely pointed out some facts. What you have seen and try to point out my fallacy is that you don't realize a quarter of the world population is Chinese. If you want to pick on them, it's easy, won't you say? I could do that myself even without my superiority complex.

As for spending, as you like to categorize by nationality, perhaps, you have seen some from your country who seem to you spend a lot, but, once again, I say to you that you haven't seen nothing yet! Hey, a condo at Four Season is only 60m and a house is only 166m. Not only falangs bought it. Incidentlly, there are still 2 units left!

[muchogra]

Btw, China ain't what you think! Neither is China a communist country like many ignoramuses claim to be while proclaiming themselves to be world travellers! Get a hold of yourself and look at your own country and hopefully see how it's eating you up! Get rid of your superiority complex and be real and correct what's wrong that's happening instead of spreading what has become the ills in where you come from!

[muchogra]

VegasVic, I reckon you fancy Las Vegas or from Vegas. I like Vegas. I went there. I saw Asians played with black chips in stack.

Macaus, in a few short years, the revenues have already passed that of Vegas! Where do you think they are from if not from the Chinese?

May I say to you that you are narrow-scoped for being one of those Americans that have seen nothing yet?

[Oscar2]

Is this the University where a professor with a PhD said she HATED farang?

no.

[kurnell]

I say ban all the Chinese, Russian, Germans, British, Yanks, Aussies...hang on a minute

[marko kok prong]

These really are aliens.

[mowgus]

Heard though a pretty good source that this simply won't (not surprisingly) be implemented. Begs the question though...how do you manage visitors to the university? Post some signs in various languages? Hand out leaflets with do's and don't's of visiting the Uni?

[Tomtomtom69]

Try visiting a Chinese university library! You will be treated rudely and denied any access. I don't know about access to Chinese college campuses now, but in years past, much of the college grounds were off limits to non-students.

Not true - Chinese college campuses are generally very open these days. I have visited many campuses both as a student and non-student, but not as a tourist of course. Open access is the way it should be - China isn't Myanmar where you need permission from the ministry of education to be granted a permit just to enter university grounds. That's a bit extreme I'd say.

[Tomtomtom69]

I dont understand why a chinese tourist would dress up as a student to check out a university!

i'm baffled!!!

does it mean that they are trying to get into lectures and learn something?

or is there some sort of chinese game show where they have to dress up and pretend to be part of an organisation?

and why would a tourist camp on a university campus? hotels are pretty cheap in thailand!!

There was a famous movie. That is why the Chinese all flock to Chiang Mai.

Yes but their behavior is a bit bizarre in the sense that we're talking about just another ordinary university!! And I know what I'm talking about - I lived in China for a number of years and yes, I can honestly say China is a great place and wouldn't mind getting an opportunity to go back and live there - believe me there are far more exciting college campuses in China than anywhere in Thailand.

There is nothing wrong with dressing up as a student and all, but I honestly can't see what all the fuss is about regarding some ordinary university in Thailand - yawn. There is nothing architecturally inspiring about the campus, nor is the food on campus any good (in fact, I only eat it to be polite when I'm with professors or other people that I'm visiting - there is much better food available just outside of campus) and the fact that one can just drive anywhere they want on campus, although very convenient is also very irritating - it's almost as dangerous driving around on campus roads as on the streets outside, which is just odd and not the way it should be. They should turn the campus into a more pedestrian friendly zone which would be a boon to the expanding waistlines of students and reduce the chance of accidents inside campus, not to mention pollution. And no, the Chinese visitors aren't the main cause of any of this - it's the students themselves.

[Tomtomtom69]

Don't they have security guards at all entrances to campus?

They do but they don't stop anyone. I'm thinking traffic is now going to get busy around the entrances as they'll need to stop anyone that looks remotely foreign (how they will determine that without stopping everyone and asking for ID will be interesting to see).

It's really unfortunate...I live near the University and enjoy taking relaxing walks along the lake. Now, because of the inappropriate actions of some ignorant people, I won't be able to. Chiang Mai is lacking green space for such activities so it's a real shame to lock it up. Especially as I've lived in CM for a couple of years, hardly a tourist.

That sounds to me like racial profiling. How about this - you speak to the guards (in Thai of course) and explain your purpose of visiting? I'm sure that'll get them off your backs. ID is not required - I know a professor at Chiang Mai uni that certainly doesn't bring any ID with him and yes he also rides a bike onto campus.

[Tomtomtom69]

Don't they have security guards at all entrances to campus?

They do but they don't stop anyone. I'm thinking traffic is now going to get busy around the entrances as they'll need to stop anyone that looks remotely foreign (how they will determine that without stopping everyone and asking for ID will be interesting to see).

I work at CMU and you are required to have a university sticker on your windscreen to enter uncontested else you have to hand over your ID card and get it back when leaving. So yes, they stop everyone in cars but not motorcycles if you don't have a sticker. A curious thing and that the cars in front of me with Thais in them and with stickers get waved through promptly but when they see this farang face they put their hand up to stop me and take a closer look at my sticker.

Having said that they, just last week, stopped the checks but for the entire school year had been enforcing it. Comes and goes but much longer period of time for the checks this year then before where it was only a couple of weeks after school term starts. The front gate off Huay Kaew road is pretty consistent with their checks though. I use the Suthep road main entrance.

And yes, the Chinese tourists have been a nuisance and a danger to themselves and others as they walk in the streets oblivious to their immediate surroundings and vehicles, both on foot and bicycles.

I usually come to CMU to visit a professor friend, who I am doing collaborative research with. Occasionally we've also been known to hold a small drinking session on campus, along with some other regular attendees...shush....

In recent times, I've noticed the ID card swapping requirement and would always talk my way out of it by stating I was just visiting a professor friend - there is nothing wrong with collecting ID cards but I usually don't want to be forced to go back the same way - traffic can be horrendous depending on which gate you use and I usually find myself spending hours on campus at any one time. I've noticed the back university entrance rarely stops anyone but the Suthep entrance has been the main one requesting IDs be exchanged.

Edited March 2, 2014 by Tomtomtom69

[Rooney860]

Never mind the uni prob, don't get anywhere near them if they are on a hired m bike!!!!!!!

[tubby johnson]

On my first (and probably last) visit to China I saw people defecate and urinate in public. Do they also do that on the lawn of Chiang Mai University?

[Tomtomtom69]

Have the people of Chiang Mai forgotten their roots...these Chinese are likely distant relatives...is this how you treat you extended family...?

Let's not pull out the race card here. First of all, although many Thais, particularly northern Thais do have some Chinese roots, though for the most part they are of mixed Chinese and other ethnicity (such as Shan, Lao, Thai, etc.) but more importantly they identify as being Thais first and foremost and have very little to connect themselves back to China - most northern Thais haven't even been there at all. Chinese from the mainland are therefore as foreign as anyone else, even if their physical appearance is closer to that of the Thais than westerners are.

However, the point here is that ALL visitors should be treated equally and well, not just those that look more like you.

I don't think the response by Chiang Mai university to what is happening is a rational response however, rather it is a knee-jerk reaction to the issue. What they should be doing is working with Chinese travel agents, the TAT, local authorities and the Chinese consulate-general in Chiang Mai to inform, in the nicest possible ways of how to respectfully conduct yourself on campus. That's all it would take, not this theme show style profiteering, but then again, why should I be surprised? Thailand is capable of turning just about anything into a tourist attraction, no wonder that virtually all foreigners associate Thailand only with tourism and virtually nothing else.

[ARISTIDE]

"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery " but most Thai fail to see that.

[Thighlander]

harrry, on 27 Feb 2014 - 07:15, said:

While I understand the problem I do not like the solution. Universities should be open. THe libraries should be a resource for all. CMU ever since its disgusting treatment of the students at CMU Language Institute seems a more and more xenaphobic place ( and I do not use that word in relation to anywhere or anyone else in Thailand).

Just curious, what are you referring to at the Language Institute?

search the forum and you will find out how they got all students visas cancelled and stopped their courses without refund (many got refunds through credit cards and a few through the courts).

CMU was not directly involved as I recall....it was in fact a Farang who ran the language course,collected the tuitions and then flew the coop.

Read the facts.....they are not as you have stated.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/395023-cmu-fails-to-provide-visa-support-documents/

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/404148-latest-developments-at-cmu-thai-course/page-2

I'm not even going to read the links, but the word was that it was the Thai Admin, who pulled the plug on the course...."too many farang on campus." "Dr. Gay's" credentials were obviously bogus, but he didn't do the runner. Would be interesting to see if the LI is still allowed to process credit cards after having to repay quite a few people, as they were the only ones with recourse.