Grenade aimed at Big C from parking lot across the road: Bangkok

[webfact]

Grenade aimed at Big C from parking lot across the road
THE NATION

BANGKOK: -- It is believed that Sunday's deadly grenade, which killed two children, had been fired from a parking lot diagonally opposite Big C Ratchadamri.

"The spot is about 400 metres from where the grenade landed. Fresh cigarette butts were also found there," forensic expert Dr Pornthip Rojanasunan said yesterday.

The M79 exploded in front of the Big C shopping mall, killing three and wounding many others.

The spot on the ninth floor of the parking lot of the Palladium Department Store is the most likely as the rally below could be seen clearly from there. Palladium is across the street and slightly to the right of the Big C shopping mall. Pornthip, who is the inspector-general of the Justice Ministry, looked around from the seventh to 10th parking levels of the building with Senator Paiboon Nitiwan, chairman of the Senate subcommittee on corruption prevention and monitoring the use of authority's power and police.

Forensic police were asked to pour over the spot and collect evidence to check whether the DNA matched that found on the safety lever of the grenade.

It would also be compared to other evidence collected in previous attacks including those during the 2010 political unrest.

Paiboon said the spot also matched police's calculations that the grenade could not have come from a building higher than 10 storeys.


-- The Nation 2014-02-27

[taony]

My god

-*I typed this myself*-

[Halion]

I am getting sick and tired of the endless bullshit and half arsed stories that are published by the morons at the Nation. This article is simply fanciful drivel. Earlier report quoting some experts from the police and OED had claimed that this attack had been made by highly trained marksman and now we get this erroneous garbage.

A M79 is a grenade which is a 40 mm jumbo sized bullet that is fired from a grenade launcher and has no 'safety lever/spoon or pin as found on hand grenades which are thrown. There would be no such evidence at the firing point. Furthermore, 400 meters is at the extreme end of the weapons range making specific targeting almost impossible and totally indiscriminate.

[Bkungbank]

He might escape from punisment from laws but he cannot sleep at night as he dreaming that he has killed innocent children on the street.

[ikke]

He might escape from punisment from laws but he cannot sleep at night as he dreaming that he has killed innocent children on the street.

I hope you talk about Suthep.

[gemini81]

I am getting sick and tired of the endless bullshit and half arsed stories that are published by the morons at the Nation. This article is simply fanciful drivel. Earlier report quoting some experts from the police and OED had claimed that this attack had been made by highly trained marksman and now we get this erroneous garbage.

A M79 is a grenade which is a 40 mm jumbo sized bullet that is fired from a grenade launcher and has no 'safety lever/spoon or pin as found on hand grenades which are thrown. There would be no such evidence at the firing point. Furthermore, 400 meters is at the extreme end of the weapons range making specific targeting almost impossible and totally indiscriminate.

It repeatedly reveals the poor investigations; and shows me why these attacks occur time & again, even in a heavily populated area: they can easily manage to get away with it.

T

[LotusBoy]

He might escape from punisment from laws but he cannot sleep at night as he dreaming that he has killed innocent children on the street.

I hope you talk about Suthep.

Why Suthep? No, he is talking about the COWARDLY Red shirt moron x 2 now!

[soalbundy]

What has BIG C done wrong ?

[Bkungbank]

_{Thier father bring them to shopping in Big C while wating for thier relative the children were playing in front of the shopping mall happen that time the bomb landed directly on them, it's not their parent bring them for demostration it just hapeen at the wrong place and at the wrong time. May God bless them and hope their soul will rest in peace !}

[millwall_fan]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

He might escape from punisment from laws but he cannot sleep at night as he dreaming that he has killed innocent children on the street.

You are forgetting - there is no guilt in this country. Guilt is a Western Judeo/Christian concept.

There is only shame if you're caught.... which they wont be because there are powerful forces protecting them.

[MaxLee]

Dear Nation writers. FYI, the victims are already dead...

Edited February 27, 2014 by MaxLee

[taony]

In Thailand, "fresh cigarette butts" are a "smoking gun"

[Suriya4]

_{Thier father bring them to shopping in Big C while wating for thier relative the children were playing in front of the shopping mall happen that time the bomb landed directly on them, it's not their parent bring them for demostration it just hapeen at the wrong place and at the wrong time. May God bless them and hope their soul will rest in peace !}

I don't believe their father. Who would bring their children shopping in a protest zone? And Sunisa also just happen to go to beauty clinic, wrong place and wrong time?

If protesters close down all the fly-overs (Thai-Belgium, Thai-Japan, Patunum, Vibpawadee, Changwattana, etc), I suppose, following the same stand, the protesters will also have to bar people from going into Big-C now.

PS. I can understand Thai-Japan bridge, but Thai-Belgium bridge is not even near the Silom stage. Why is it still close is beyond my understanding.

Edited February 27, 2014 by Suriya4

[IMA_FARANG]

I am getting sick and tired of the endless bullshit and half arsed stories that are published by the morons at the Nation. This article is simply fanciful drivel. Earlier report quoting some experts from the police and OED had claimed that this attack had been made by highly trained marksman and now we get this erroneous garbage.

A M79 is a grenade which is a 40 mm jumbo sized bullet that is fired from a grenade launcher and has no 'safety lever/spoon or pin as found on hand grenades which are thrown. There would be no such evidence at the firing point. Furthermore, 400 meters is at the extreme end of the weapons range making specific targeting almost impossible and totally indiscriminate.

-------------------

An M-79 grenade warhead had a 1/4 turn (if I recall correctly) turn rifling in the barrel of the launcher.

That rifling causes the round to spin once it is fired from the launcher.

When the round is fired it spins in the air after it is fired, which arms the warhead after a certain number of turns.

Then that armed warhead will explode on contact when it lands but only unless that warhead has completed the number of spins it needs, it will not explode on contact.

That means that effectively, depending on what angle of the tube is held when fired there is a minimum distance it must travel also before it can explode on contact.

Knowing the angle that the tube must have been held, the maximum distance of 400 meters, and the minimum distance it must have traveled to get the required number of spins to arm the warhead ..... using that info you can calculate a possible trajectory from which it must have been fired.

That's how you determine if a building or area is a possible spot the M-79 could have been fired from .... and that eliminates some areas as being to far away or too close to the explosion area.

[taony]

It didn't explode on contact. We know that from the first day.

[webfact]

Porntip says cigarette butts found are key evidence to track M 79 attackers



BANGKOK: -- Former forensic specialist Khunying Porntip Rajanasunan said seven cigarette butts found at the car park area of The Palladium building could be key evidence to prove if perpetrators fired the deadly M 79 grenade at Ratchaprasong intersection.

Khuying Porntip accompanied a team of the Senate’s subcommittee on anti-corruption and power abuse to inspect the ninth floor of The Palladium building at Pratunman as it is strongly believed to be used as the firing position.

The cigarette butts were left on the floor of a channel of the car park floor. The channel is in the same direction of the tent of protesters where the M 79 grenade landed and is also within the 200-400 meter radius of the fire power of the grenade launcher, she said.

But Khunying made clear that she has no authority to investigate as a forensic specialist as she had also quit and now is just an inspector-general of the Justice Ministry.

She just came upon request by the subcommittee chairman Mr Phaibul Nititawan who is in charge of investigating the fact.

From the channel where the cigarette butts were left on the floor, it can see the protest site clearly, she said.

She said that forensic specialist could detect DNA from the cigarettes because the butts were filled with larvae of smokers.

Moreover it could be detected whether the DNA from the cigarette matched with DNA found from M 79 grenade shrapnel at the scene.

She also said that samples of dust from vicinity of the butts have been collected as they might be tainted with gunpowder smoke during the firing.

Sample of gun powder smoke could prove which kind of weapon was used because M 79 and RPG rocket propeller has different gunpowder smoke, she said citing her experience in DNA test during working for years in the troubled plagued southern provinces.

The building is in the responsibility area of Phya Thai police who have to work faster to collect the evidence, she said.

She said DNA test is scientific and could not be changed. It could prove who really fired the grenade that killed the children.

The ninth floor on The Palladium building is normally not crowded and if CCTV cameras were thoroughly checked , they could be used to track the perpetrators easily. Other floors are closed wall.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/porntip-says-cigarette-butts-found-key-evidence-track-m-79-attackers/


-- Thai PBS 2014-02-27

[sungod]

I am getting sick and tired of the endless bullshit and half arsed stories that are published by the morons at the Nation. This article is simply fanciful drivel. Earlier report quoting some experts from the police and OED had claimed that this attack had been made by highly trained marksman and now we get this erroneous garbage.

A M79 is a grenade which is a 40 mm jumbo sized bullet that is fired from a grenade launcher and has no 'safety lever/spoon or pin as found on hand grenades which are thrown. There would be no such evidence at the firing point. Furthermore, 400 meters is at the extreme end of the weapons range making specific targeting almost impossible and totally indiscriminate.

Good point, however anything with a lethal radius of 5m would be totally indiscriminate in my book,

[Thaddeus]

Moreover it could be detected whether the DNA from the cigarette matched with DNA found from M 79 grenade shrapnel at the scene.

Which would prove that the grenade thrower also smoked cigarettes, in a public place, 2000 Baht fine.

[JRSoul]

".......the butts were filled with larvae of smokers."

I try to avoid larvae in my butt.

[Neurath]

Find it hard to take her seriously at all after her intervention in the GT 2000 bomb scanner issue.

[fleeing]

I am getting sick and tired of the endless bullshit and half arsed stories that are published by the morons at the Nation. This article is simply fanciful drivel. Earlier report quoting some experts from the police and OED had claimed that this attack had been made by highly trained marksman and now we get this erroneous garbage.

A M79 is a grenade which is a 40 mm jumbo sized bullet that is fired from a grenade launcher and has no 'safety lever/spoon or pin as found on hand grenades which are thrown. There would be no such evidence at the firing point. Furthermore, 400 meters is at the extreme end of the weapons range making specific targeting almost impossible and totally indiscriminate.

You are absolutely right. There are more holes in this report than a good Gruyere cheese.

What troubles me most about this theory, because that's all it is, is that although there is a 'line of fire' towards the Big C from the Palladium,formerly Pratunam Centre, it would mean firing above the roof-tops of two blocks of shop-houses before landing in front of the Big C on Ratchaprarop. Firing from here would provide a very narrow angle, making it more likely that the grenade would land away from the Big C and closer to Central on the other side of the road.

I wonder why they have settled so quickly on this site as a probable launching site, instead of looking at the car-park attached to the Platinum Mall, which would both be a little closer and provide a much broader 'view' to aim the grenade.

It's all conjecture and little can be expected from any 'investigation' as usual.

Edited February 27, 2014 by fleeing

[Halion]

I am getting sick and tired of the endless bullshit and half arsed stories that are published by the morons at the Nation. This article is simply fanciful drivel. Earlier report quoting some experts from the police and OED had claimed that this attack had been made by highly trained marksman and now we get this erroneous garbage.

A M79 is a grenade which is a 40 mm jumbo sized bullet that is fired from a grenade launcher and has no 'safety lever/spoon or pin as found on hand grenades which are thrown. There would be no such evidence at the firing point. Furthermore, 400 meters is at the extreme end of the weapons range making specific targeting almost impossible and totally indiscriminate.

-------------------

An M-79 grenade warhead had a 1/4 turn (if I recall correctly) turn rifling in the barrel of the launcher.

That rifling causes the round to spin once it is fired from the launcher.

When the round is fired it spins in the air after it is fired, which arms the warhead after a certain number of turns.

Then that armed warhead will explode on contact when it lands but only unless that warhead has completed the number of spins it needs, it will not explode on contact.

That means that effectively, depending on what angle of the tube is held when fired there is a minimum distance it must travel also before it can explode on contact.

Knowing the angle that the tube must have been held, the maximum distance of 400 meters, and the minimum distance it must have traveled to get the required number of spins to arm the warhead ..... using that info you can calculate a possible trajectory from which it must have been fired.

That's how you determine if a building or area is a possible spot the M-79 could have been fired from .... and that eliminates some areas as being to far away or too close to the explosion area.

Understand, and what you say is correct. The projectile requires about 100 feet (30 meters ) in order to arm itself by the method you outline. The muzzle velocity is low at around 250 ft/sec with the effective specific target distance being around 100 meters and the maximum distance being 400 meters and the target at this range would only be general area and not specific.

At 400 meters the launch to detonation time would be in the region of 4 to 5 seconds. If it was truly fired from a 7 floor car park (elevation,say 30 meters) and the distance was 400 meters it was a random and indiscriminate shot with only general area in mind. Furthermore the projectile would have to arc to travel that distance. The open sights on the model used by the British army gave graduations from 200 to 375 in 25 meter increments. (it may have been yards as my memory fails me,).

However, I digress as what incensed me to write the original post was the comment from their ballistics "expert" that they would be checking the for comparable DNA from the cigarettes butts and the safety lever /spoon found at the suspected firing location. The M79 fires a 40 x 46 mm round that does not have a safety lever/spoon as are found on hand grenades.

I am sure that this band of experts have absolutely no idea of the firing location.

[aimbc]

He might escape from punisment from laws but he cannot sleep at night as he dreaming that he has killed innocent children on the street.

I hope you talk about Suthep.

I am sure he s talking about YS and the government.