Reasons of change

[Nofun2013]

I was employed to complete tasks around the web based side of the company,

I have extensive knowledge and skills in general around it down to servers, configurations and so on.

I approached my immediate superior and then the boss, stated my contract needed to be amended and WP to reflect the work load they were putting on me in that area, otherwise i would be working illegally, and quiet honestly i have enough on my plate, and they are the first to moan when work isn't done.

This was never followed up nor an answer given yet i am pretty much running all of the processes, doing all of the work, telling other people how to do properly and i am not happy, i have live for many years in Thailand and i now have a lot to loose financially if caught, but if i refuse they get very funny, in-fact one said if you refuse your sacked.

It was a great working environment, but since then it really does not feel like it as there has been no answer to my request, just ignorance.

What do i do, i've given a lot to this company to see them move in the right direction in my area, i've waisted a long time if i resign and to walk away with nothing is not ideal, there must be some legal department or online paperwork i can put under their noses to state the obvious.

[54321]

once you are paid(put a legal bug/error in the system) walk out , and then start to negociate.

[Suradit69]

once you are paid(put a legal bug/error in the system) walk out , and then start to negociate.

I would seriously suggest you not do this. It could be considered criminal damage. Aside from that, if you want to stay at the company this would make your relationship with management seriously difficult. I'm sure you've made a major contribution, but it's never a good idea to think you can't be replaced.

Actually based on your posting, I would say your relationship with management isn't all that great even now. I'm sure after all the time you've spent in Thailand you realize that antagonizing people or referring to them as ignorant or sabotaging the computer program will not get you anything, especially if they've already said you can be sacked.

Best to get advice regarding your WP from a lawyer who deals with such things. S/he might be in a better position to diplomatically contact your boss about what's needed. Just about any other approach is just going to ruffle feathers at this point and make your situation even worse.

[BlackJack]

when the company in question applied to the Ministry of Labour for your work permit - it specifically states what work you will be employed to do.

so you need to see what was submitted and then stick to it

otherwise you are working outside of your duties and may loose your WP

[Nofun2013]

when the company in question applied to the Ministry of Labour for your work permit - it specifically states what work you will be employed to do.

so you need to see what was submitted and then stick to it

otherwise you are working outside of your duties and may loose your WP

I have my contract and my job position, yes i am working outside my duties hence my question, but it appears to be of no worry to them.

[Nofun2013]

once you are paid(put a legal bug/error in the system) walk out , and then start to negociate.

Your not too bright, that would be insane to do in such a country as Thailand.

[DrTuner]

How about actually showing them the part of the law that states the penalties the employer gets if a WP breach is found. Nobody will listen unless it's about money.

I hope you've negotiated your salary to match, too. If not, the time to do it would be at the same time as amending the WP. Which the management may well guess and try to avoid.

[Nofun2013]

How about actually showing them the part of the law that states the penalties the employer gets if a WP breach is found. Nobody will listen unless it's about money.

I hope you've negotiated your salary to match, too. If not, the time to do it would be at the same time as amending the WP. Which the management may well guess and try to avoid.

I tried that with the original discussion about upping the salary, it appears to be in one ear and out of the other, don't get me wrong, i'm more concerned about the ramifications on me having settled here well and truly and totally against putting everything i have here in jeopardy, if i knew where i could find this information to put under their noses it would be fantastic.

[Nofun2013]

How about actually showing them the part of the law that states the penalties the employer gets if a WP breach is found. Nobody will listen unless it's about money.

I hope you've negotiated your salary to match, too. If not, the time to do it would be at the same time as amending the WP. Which the management may well guess and try to avoid.

I tried that with the original discussion about upping the salary, it appears to be in one ear and out of the other, don't get me wrong, i'm more concerned about the ramifications on me having settled here well and truly and totally against putting everything i have here in jeopardy, if i knew where i could find this information to put under their noses it would be fantastic.

[DrTuner]

How about actually showing them the part of the law that states the penalties the employer gets if a WP breach is found. Nobody will listen unless it's about money.

I hope you've negotiated your salary to match, too. If not, the time to do it would be at the same time as amending the WP. Which the management may well guess and try to avoid.

I tried that with the original discussion about upping the salary, it appears to be in one ear and out of the other, don't get me wrong, i'm more concerned about the ramifications on me having settled here well and truly and totally against putting everything i have here in jeopardy, if i knew where i could find this information to put under their noses it would be fantastic.

It's in the Alien Working Act, B.E. 2551, a summary of which is here: http://www.thailawforum.com/database1/Alien-Working-Act.html

An alien working without a work permit is subject to imprisonment for a period of up to five years and/or a fine from 2,000 baht to 100,000 baht. If an alien accused of working without a work permit agrees to leave Thailand within 30 days, he may settle the matter with only a fine. An alien with a work permit failing to comply with certain provisions of the Alien Working Act is subject to a fine of up to 10,000 baht. An employer hiring an alien without a work permit is subject to a fine from 10,000 baht to 100,000 baht per alien, and an employer hiring an alien outside the scope of his work permit is subject to a fine of up to 10,000 baht per alien.

So up to 10k baht fine for them. You'll need to dig up the original Thai text, I too would be interested if there's a website, government or otherwise, where current Thai laws can be viewed or downloaded.

Since it's already a screw-up, the wonderful Thai face issue will step into effect. You'll need to sugar coat the whole affair somehow and pucker up and still might run your head to a wall. TiT.

EDIT: It might be somewhere on the badly maintained Royal Gazette's website: http://www.ratchakitcha.soc.go.th/RKJ/index/index.htm

Edited February 28, 2014 by DrTuner

[Nofun2013]

How about actually showing them the part of the law that states the penalties the employer gets if a WP breach is found. Nobody will listen unless it's about money.

I hope you've negotiated your salary to match, too. If not, the time to do it would be at the same time as amending the WP. Which the management may well guess and try to avoid.

I tried that with the original discussion about upping the salary, it appears to be in one ear and out of the other, don't get me wrong, i'm more concerned about the ramifications on me having settled here well and truly and totally against putting everything i have here in jeopardy, if i knew where i could find this information to put under their noses it would be fantastic.

It's in the Alien Working Act, B.E. 2551, a summary of which is here: http://www.thailawforum.com/database1/Alien-Working-Act.html

An alien working without a work permit is subject to imprisonment for a period of up to five years and/or a fine from 2,000 baht to 100,000 baht. If an alien accused of working without a work permit agrees to leave Thailand within 30 days, he may settle the matter with only a fine. An alien with a work permit failing to comply with certain provisions of the Alien Working Act is subject to a fine of up to 10,000 baht. An employer hiring an alien without a work permit is subject to a fine from 10,000 baht to 100,000 baht per alien, and an employer hiring an alien outside the scope of his work permit is subject to a fine of up to 10,000 baht per alien.

So up to 10k baht fine for them. You'll need to dig up the original Thai text, I too would be interested if there's a website, government or otherwise, where current Thai laws can be viewed or downloaded.

Since it's already a screw-up, the wonderful Thai face issue will step into effect. You'll need to sugar coat the whole affair somehow and pucker up and still might run your head to a wall. TiT.

EDIT: It might be somewhere on the badly maintained Royal Gazette's website: http://www.ratchakitcha.soc.go.th/RKJ/index/index.htm

Thanks ill look through this, its a foreigner i am employed by.

So should not be a face issue, also i think the 10K baht is of no issue for them.

[richardt1808]

Hi,

There are two separate issues you are juggling with. One is your salary package vs actual day-to-day duties and the other is the list of duties in your work permit. If the thing you are really worried about is really your remuneration, then I'd advise you to deal with it in that context. Sure, the company is probably reluctant to pay you any more than what it originally negotiated; and that's something that we all just have to deal with - especially when working in a big coporation. The fact that you initially agreed to do those extra things, now puts you at a disadvantage and it would have been way better for you to have done some negotiation before agreeing to take them on in the first place.

In terms of your work-permit, as long as you are working at the same address and doing reasonably at least most of the things according to the original job description, you would never have a problem. I'm in the same situation in that I have had various responsibilities added or removed compared to what is written on my work permit - but the address and job title are correct and both my HR lady and the lady at the labour office at the last visit agreed that its no big deal and all concerned have better things to do than completely re-doing the entire work-permit.

If you're really worried about the immigration police swooping in and causing a problem, simply cover yourself by sending an e-mail to your HR department pointing out the discrepancy and the fact that it is the company's responsibility to keep things up-to-date and you are covered. I totally agree that it really isn't worth getting combative with your boss or HR manager - you've been here long enough to know how things work.

Best of luck,

[asiamint]

when the company in question applied to the Ministry of Labour for your work permit - it specifically states what work you will be employed to do.

so you need to see what was submitted and then stick to it

otherwise you are working outside of your duties and may loose your WP

Your totally right.

But this is a huge problem in the real world, i know lot's of bosses in America that like to get down and dirty with the staff. They lead from the front and do all sorts of different jobs in different departments to really get to know what it's like on the front lines.

It's totally lacking common sense as the real world does not work to set job tasks.

The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.

[Nofun2013]

when the company in question applied to the Ministry of Labour for your work permit - it specifically states what work you will be employed to do.

so you need to see what was submitted and then stick to it

otherwise you are working outside of your duties and may loose your WP

Your totally right.

But this is a huge problem in the real world, i know lot's of bosses in America that like to get down and dirty with the staff. They lead from the front and do all sorts of different jobs in different departments to really get to know what it's like on the front lines.

It's totally lacking common sense as the real world does not work to set job tasks.

The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.

I have not got a clue what you are rambling on about, sorry.

[kimbathewhitelion]

once you are paid(put a legal bug/error in the system) walk out , and then start to negociate.

I would seriously suggest you not do this. It could be considered criminal damage. Aside from that, if you want to stay at the company this would make your relationship with management seriously difficult. I'm sure you've made a major contribution, but it's never a good idea to think you can't be replaced.

Actually based on your posting, I would say your relationship with management isn't all that great even now. I'm sure after all the time you've spent in Thailand you realize that antagonizing people or referring to them as ignorant or sabotaging the computer program will not get you anything, especially if they've already said you can be sacked.

Best to get advice regarding your WP from a lawyer who deals with such things. S/he might be in a better position to diplomatically contact your boss about what's needed. Just about any other approach is just going to ruffle feathers at this point and make your situation even worse.

Seems even from a legal point in a country where foreigners have little to no rights, your screwed. Seems best not to cross over into working here illegally, also seems your bosses know they got you cornered. Best to just secretly look for a new company, get paid & walk out at the most busiest time. Nothing criminal. Worked for an English company back in America during Obama's first reign, intolerable conditions, they knew the job market was shit, so they continued to squeeze. I know the position when you need the cash & are cornered by greedy, selfish company but it will only get worse. And if your caught, they win!

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Nofun2013]

once you are paid(put a legal bug/error in the system) walk out , and then start to negociate.

I would seriously suggest you not do this. It could be considered criminal damage. Aside from that, if you want to stay at the company this would make your relationship with management seriously difficult. I'm sure you've made a major contribution, but it's never a good idea to think you can't be replaced.

Actually based on your posting, I would say your relationship with management isn't all that great even now. I'm sure after all the time you've spent in Thailand you realize that antagonizing people or referring to them as ignorant or sabotaging the computer program will not get you anything, especially if they've already said you can be sacked.

Best to get advice regarding your WP from a lawyer who deals with such things. S/he might be in a better position to diplomatically contact your boss about what's needed. Just about any other approach is just going to ruffle feathers at this point and make your situation even worse.

Seems even from a legal point in a country where foreigners have little to no rights, your screwed. Seems best not to cross over into working here illegally, also seems your bosses know they got you cornered. Best to just secretly look for a new company, get paid & walk out at the most busiest time. Nothing criminal. Worked for an English company back in America during Obama's first reign, intolerable conditions, they knew the job market was shit, so they continued to squeeze. I know the position when you need the cash & are cornered by greedy, selfish company but it will only get worse. And if your caught, they win!

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Im not cornered so to speak as i can refuse, but the implications are pretty harsh.

As in finically, TBH they pay well, but for what tasks they are adding on i would certainly want more as anyone would in my position, it is more about wasted time, and informing them professionally that i am being forced to break the law by doing tasks not on my contract nor wp.

[Ulic]

No win situation, start looking for a new job.