New Property Law For Foreigners Spreads Confusion

[bquick]

Quite why the farang should get their presumptious knickers in a twist by this bit of tub thumping by the " Thai" is beyond me. It is only their own hubris which convinced them in the first place, albeit aided by some toad snake oil salesman estate agent, that they could circumvent the stricture on foreign ownership announced in the second line of the Thai national anthem. Wishful thinking did the rest but I daresay some further clarification will be made to allay fraying nerves pro tem.

But honestly, did the farang really think they were players in the Thai market? More fool them if they did. The Chinese own Thailand. The rest is just grist to the nationalist mill.

True. The chinese own Thailand. Sad isn't it and the way the thais hate their own skin thanks to the chinese propaganda.

[GuestHouse]

Nevermind who owns Thailand, before anyone here sets about changing their house ownership from Company route to Lease Route, or even giving it to the Mrs, find out who actually owns your house

If you are 49% shareholder in the company that owns your house (albeit a 95% vote owner) 51% of the collatoral in the company (51% of your house) is owned by the 7 Thais you got to be your silent share holders.

Now, you can vote to sell the house, but the collatoral belongs to the share holders, they are quite within their rights to take 51% of the money released in the sale.

This is the point when you realize why the guys who did all that legal work for you were so very helpful at finding silent share holders for you.

[OZONE]

Not sure where you all get those ideas. Yes if you marry a bargirl and you are twice her age chance is it's not love - but it doesn't have to be like that.

We have been married for close to 15 years now, she own the house, our daughter will inherit, her family leave us alone, basically no problems

Exactly! not much more to it than that. Common sense prevails everytime!

Edited May 30, 2006 by OZONE

[Greer]

I agree with one of the earlier posters: there is no reason to think, or expect, that the government is going to review all the many thousands of normal purchases that have already been made unless they have some reason to suspect there was or is something fishy about them.

Any individual home owner who made the purchase already, and who did so within the normal framework of the law and was not doing it as a land developer (trying to circumvent the existing laws) should have no reason to worry.

The Thai government, as any government, is quite correct to find new ways, or enforce existing laws, to try to prevent money laundering or other dishonest practices. In many western communites there are laws to prevent bogus business set-ups from being used in unscrupulous ways - if it helps prevent money being passed to the underworld, then I think it is totally appropriate.

Stop panicking!

As for those worried about the wife owning the place - why worry? If you were in a western community you could easily lose the house and lots more...at least here it's probably only the house, and that only if you don't have kids. If you have children born here, then put the house in their name now - then your family will inherit it no matter what.

Edited May 30, 2006 by Greer

[lordofdelusion]

the wonderful upside to all this is that hopefully there will be a mass exodus from these shores of those paragons of truthfulness and good business practice , the british land agent and seller of bali fusion infinity pooled dreams , along with a good number of swaggering loudmouthed jumped up brit brickies and builders and a whole lot of bottom feeding chinless hangers on who have turned beautiful landscapes into tawdry and third rate falang ghetto ghost towns.

there should also be plenty of tarted up toyota fortuners flooding the second hand car market soon.

the enforcing of these old laws is long overdue and very welcome.

thais (and after all it is their country) without land have never been happy with the way land prices have escalated in many areas , putting even the smallest plot well out of reach to them.

increases in land prices and the ridiculous prices asked for and obtained for poorly built homes have contributed greatly to the atmosphere of greed and dishonesty that has been spreading like a filthy pox in so many areas of thailand .

an undercurrent of resentment towards falangs is also a byproduct of the uncontrolled expansion of these "dream homes" that are now turning into nightmare homes.

hopefully those who have paid for the title to their houses wont be dispossessed , but if this crackdown slows down the pace of development , then it will be a blessing.

I have to agree with this. The problem isn't the Thai law, it's the developements designed and marketed by farangs for farangs. Earlier this year I visited several of these on Phuket thinking I wanted to buy one. In each case I was meet by an English speaking agent who made no secret of the fact that their developement was for foreigners. One even had a chart listing the buyer's country of origin. No Thais of course. When asked how they got by the 49% foreigner ownership of the condos, I was told no problem...they would set up a Thai company for me. See the post from Guest House for why this is a great idea. Greed. Love of money is the root of all evil.

[Thaiquila]

The question I have is this. What will this do to condo values?

In the more popular condos, 49 percent are owned by farangs, a certain percent are owned by Thais, and another certain percent are owned by farangs running phony companies. The farangs owning condos under companies will be in a big fix. They cannout sell to foreigners (building already 49 percent) so they can only sell to Thais, who will of course take advantage of their desperation and pay lower prices. What about the remaining farang owned condos, do they go up or down? They are in a building of radically declining values for the Thai and company owned condos, but their ownership structure is limited by number and much more desirable, so what happens? Up, same, or down for those farang owned condos? I haven't a clue because I have never heard of a market like that.

[Heng]

But honestly, did the farang really think they were players in the Thai market? More fool them if they did. The Chinese own Thailand. The rest is just grist to the nationalist mill.

True. The Chinese own Thailand.

You could own Thailand too if you just stuck together and tried to look at the big picture from a longer term point of view. Will let you in on a secret and tell you how to get started... *breaks open fortune cookie*

1) Buy property in your local husband's or wife's name.

2) Maintain/pass on your ethnic identity (language, food, traditions, etc.) to your children.

3) You only have to keep your family together for ONE generation (I know this is a stretch for some folks, but try harder), then your kids are perfectly "legal" Thai property owners. Build on that.

4) Repeat from generation to generation.

[bquick]

Thailand Trickery.

How Low and selfish can a country go to trick people like this. I can hardly believe it. Amazing Thailand eh!

The square faced guys behind this are laughing so hard at us now and rubbing there hands together in glee at this trickery. They talk about snakes, well it sure fits their thinking cozy.

This is the kind of thing that will bring such bad luck to the country. I can feel and almost smell it. The wife who is chinese-Thai is saying not to worry because maybe i will die soon and relief.

Edited May 30, 2006 by bquick

[egeefay]

Over the next 20 years almost 1 billion retirees from developed nations will be deciding where to spend the sunset years of their lives.

These retirees will be highly sought after residents. They won’t need jobs and they don’t have children that need to be educated. They have a lifetime of savings in the bank and often a regular pension check . What they need is a nice place to spend it all

High taxes, high cost of living and cold weather are going to drive many to seek tropical Asian countries where the cost of living can afford them a more comfortable lifestyle.

Smart countries are making plans to woo these retirees and their money by relaxing rules on foreign ownership of property.

But some countries seem to be restricting foreign ownership and making it harder for retirees to feel welcomed. Thailand seems to be moving in that direction.

Thailand needs to realize that it’s not possible accept the foreigner’s money without accepting the foreigner. No one wants to put down roots in a country where they are only allowed visitors status.

Buying a house and land is a deeply rooted right in developed nations. To lose that right for the privileged of retiring in Thailand may work for the moment. But as neighboring countries relax their foreign ownership rules , Thailand may find itself being bypassed by foreign retirees looking for a place to spend all their retirement savings.

[Thaiquila]

egeefay,

You make a point, but so far, all the crazy hoops have not much softened the demand. So they think they can do this without consequences. Maybe they are right.

[KhunMarco]

But honestly, did the farang really think they were players in the Thai market? More fool them if they did. The Chinese own Thailand. The rest is just grist to the nationalist mill.

True. The Chinese own Thailand.

You could own Thailand too if you just stuck together and tried to look at the big picture from a longer term point of view. Will let you in on a secret and tell you how to get started... *breaks open fortune cookie*

1) Buy property in your local husband's or wife's name.

2) Maintain/pass on your ethnic identity (language, food, traditions, etc.) to your children.

3) You only have to keep your family together for ONE generation (I know this is a stretch for some folks, but try harder), then your kids are perfectly "legal" Thai property owners. Build on that.

4) Repeat from generation to generation.

Sounds more like the "Invasion of the Body Snatchers", but i guess it works

Edited May 30, 2006 by KhunMarco

[skippybangkok]

True. The chinese own Thailand. Sad isn't it and the way the thais hate their own skin thanks to the chinese propaganda.

I think we got your point after posting 3 gazzilion messages about Thai Chinese. Worse than a broken record.

Get a life, there are good and bad everywhere.

[Galong]

Downside of a boom though is you end up pricing out the locals and that could cause resentment.

No one screws Thais more than other Thais. It's a dog eat dog out there... big fish - little fish... whatever you want to call it.

For me, this is merely one more sign of the fall of Thailand. They'll screw people until they see that it's not filling their pockets. I hope it's too late when they figure it out.

[GuestHouse]

Starting with a belief, hope or need and trying to think up justifications why someone who holds all the cards should act to enable you to meet your belief, hope or need is not addressing the problem, it is merely convincing yourself that things are the way you would like them to be.

[jackr]

Thailand needs to realize that it’s not possible accept the foreigner’s money without accepting the foreigner.

They won't though will they, because at the end of the day this is what it's all about... the reddies.

[logbags]

Firstly this idea of having money or assets stashed away under nominees names like servants and drivers was perfected by the Prime Minister himself. His maid and driver were both billionaires and real estate tycoons.

Secondly, there is a paranoia from certain farangs about being cheated as if Thais themselves don't get cheated. Many don't realize 75% of money held in Thai banks is actually held by the rich ethnic Chinese moguls like Thaksin. They didn't accumulate this wealth by fair and ethical business practices.

A massive majority of shares on the Thai share market are owned by Thai politicions and their families. Many of the Thai Rak Thai party are ethnic Chinese and it costs a minimum 15 million baht just to join the party elite.

A cabinet position or ministry post costs from tens of millions up to hundreds of millions depending of the level of graft on offer. A percentage must be then paid back into the party from all kick backs. Under Thaksin corruption has been made into a business model.

The Shinawatra family own a property portfolio that is staggering. It would take pages and pages just to list how much these parasites own. To suggest Thais are not cheated is wrong. They are cheated much more than farangs. The Thai is no more than a serf under his Chinese lord in many places.

My Thai nephew is a high ranking land official in Phuket. He recently told me the biggest crooks in Phuket now are farangs. The prices being asked for condos and houses built by some farangs are way over priced. I have seen farang agents asking 30 to 40 million for houses that cost no more than 4 or 5 to build. This has become a disease in Thailand and pushed prices to silly levels. The crash of land prices is inevitable like in 1997.

Move 1 hour from Phuket and you can build a mansion for 3-5 including land and pool. I actually think there should be a crack down on farang agents as they often advertise a house on the net for double what it is worth. They know who they are. There are a number of them in Phuket.

Every country has its shifty bastards and Thailand has both local and imported varieties. I first came to Thailand aged 22 in 1984. At 44 I have seen farangs lose Bars, resorts, cars, motorbikes, houses and condos. Most of them were fools who married bar girls half their age in the mistaken idea the girl actually gave two hoots about them. I still see women running places I know they ripped off farangs. Most just blow the money and return to the bars.

In many parts of Issan it is part of the culture to find and rob the farang. It has become an epidemic in places like Roi Et, Korart and Surin where whole villages have been taken over by farang built homes. I am constantly shocked by guys who send large amounts of money to places where the average wage is 100 baht per day. They then are surprised people turn into gold diggers.

There are many trustworthy Thais who are decent people. My nephew acts as nominee for a number of Singaporeans and Malaysians who own houses in Phuket. You can always draw up loan contract between your spouse and dear self with the house as your collateral that can be sold by your lawyer if the loan is unpaid. A Thai must own the land, there is nothing stopping a farang owning what sits on the land.

Then there is a 30 year by 2 lease. If your wife rips you off after 60 years so be it. You'll be either 95 or dead anyway. Many of the farangs in Thailand never get out of Patpong, Patong or Pattaya except on a visa run. They mix with hookers/freelancers and assorted gold diggers that manifest in all tourist areas. Here the majority of girls are Lao or Issan from poor backgrounds. They shower poor Noi or Dang with amounts of money they have never had. They then are surprised when the girl sees the opportunity to get a house, car or any other trinket that has always seemed impossible to get. They train the girl to get dependant on a lot of money.

Thai society is in a terrible mess. A lot of it is because of the rampant corruption and social system that is basically fuedal. All government jobs and positions must be bought. Policemen and army officers are promoted by pay offs or family ties. Patronage and nepotism are out of control under Thaksin. There are no real role models in Thai society or in the media, just parasites, sychophants and social climbers.

Thailand is a place to spend and enjoy your money. Not a place to make any. This has been my rule for over 20 years. This is even more so under <deleted> Thaksin. Many farangs have no idea of what or who the decent Thais are. Most Thais have no idea of what or who the decent farangs are.

I see farangs showering bar girls with gifts, phones and gold trinkets while never leaving even 100 baht tip for the maid who cleans their room daily. They scream and shout of rip offs if they are charged 20 baht more for a taxi but happily fork over 1500 baht to some girl for the night.

If you can speak Thai like many here no doubt can, you know many locals see farangs as deluded. They whinge about paying a bit more to enter a tourist attraction but are happy to spend 1000 baht at a bar or on a girl. I see both sides of the coin and certain farangs are very ugly people in Thailand. Sixty year old men chasing 25 year olds thinking they are studs. Just fools in many cases.

P.S why does Thaksin pay 200 baht for a haircut?

50 baht per corner.

[BKK90210]

I had posted this many moons ago and it's still too true today!

"Remember, in Thailand you'll never have any real business, legal or ownership right. The idea of western foreigners living in the country and achieving wealth and status through individual entrepreneurial efforts is seen as a threat to the wealthy class. For this reason, it is never allowed to happen – most of the time anyways.

Think of Thailand, for westerners, as being a bit like a casino. A casino is a place with a touch of excitement, the lure of good fortune/the good life, and a place for fun, even with a bit of a risk. Go to a casino every now and then for fun and that's OK. Go there everyday all-day and you will ultimately lose, because the House Advantage will always get you. So it is in Thailand. The Thai "House Advantage" will get you. They make sure of it.

But if you understood all the risks and if Thailand still appeals to you….. then go ahead - AT YOUR OWN RISKS!"

Just be very careful next time!

[Pleng_Farrang]

Well this topic has got people interested. 480 people currently reading this

Personally, i have only bought in Thailand in the wife's name. And it wouldn't hurt me one jot if i was to lose it but it does get my back up that she can freely buy whatever she wants in the UK....in her name. So if the worst came to it, she could keep it.

I think countries that have laws like this, just be prejudiced against in other countries. Seems fair to me. If foreigners can't buy in your country, your people can't buy in other countries.

Just my 2 "frustrated" satang

Frustrating as it may be, it's a matter of numbers...

how many farrangs are able to visit Thailand vs how many Thais are able to visit farrangland.

Thai's could just as easily argue "if you can come to my country, then I should be able to come to yours"... how easy would have it been for your wife to get into your country (let alone afford property) were it not for her marriage to you?

[Prakanong2005]

"the wonderful upside to all this is that hopefully there will be a mass exodus from these shores of those paragons of truthfulness and good business practice , the british land agent and seller of bali fusion infinity pooled dreams , along with a good number of swaggering loudmouthed jumped up brit brickies and builders and a whole lot of bottom feeding chinless hangers on who have turned beautiful landscapes into tawdry and third rate falang ghetto ghost towns."

A classic paragraph - and very close to the bone in many cases I expect!

[RAZZELL]

the wonderful upside to all this is that hopefully there will be a mass exodus from these shores of those paragons of truthfulness and good business practice , the british land agent and seller of bali fusion infinity pooled dreams , along with a good number of swaggering loudmouthed jumped up brit brickies and builders and a whole lot of bottom feeding chinless hangers on who have turned beautiful landscapes into tawdry and third rate falang ghetto ghost towns.

there should also be plenty of tarted up toyota fortuners flooding the second hand car market soon.

the enforcing of these old laws is long overdue and very welcome.

thais (and after all it is their country) without land have never been happy with the way land prices have escalated in many areas , putting even the smallest plot well out of reach to them.

increases in land prices and the ridiculous prices asked for and obtained for poorly built homes have contributed greatly to the atmosphere of greed and dishonesty that has been spreading like a filthy pox in so many areas of thailand .

an undercurrent of resentment towards falangs is also a byproduct of the uncontrolled expansion of these "dream homes" that are now turning into nightmare homes.

hopefully those who have paid for the title to their houses wont be dispossessed , but if this crackdown slows down the pace of development , then it will be a blessing.

Great post...

Edited May 30, 2006 by RAZZELL

[RAZZELL]

the wonderful upside to all this is that hopefully there will be a mass exodus from these shores of those paragons of truthfulness and good business practice , the british land agent and seller of bali fusion infinity pooled dreams , along with a good number of swaggering loudmouthed jumped up brit brickies and builders and a whole lot of bottom feeding chinless hangers on who have turned beautiful landscapes into tawdry and third rate falang ghetto ghost towns.

there should also be plenty of tarted up toyota fortuners flooding the second hand car market soon.

the enforcing of these old laws is long overdue and very welcome.

thais (and after all it is their country) without land have never been happy with the way land prices have escalated in many areas , putting even the smallest plot well out of reach to them.

increases in land prices and the ridiculous prices asked for and obtained for poorly built homes have contributed greatly to the atmosphere of greed and dishonesty that has been spreading like a filthy pox in so many areas of thailand .

an undercurrent of resentment towards falangs is also a byproduct of the uncontrolled expansion of these "dream homes" that are now turning into nightmare homes.

hopefully those who have paid for the title to their houses wont be dispossessed , but if this crackdown slows down the pace of development , then it will be a blessing.

I quite like infinity pools...

[elGrande]

Thai's could just as easily argue "if you can come to my country, then I should be able to come to yours"... how easy would have it been for your wife to get into your country (let alone afford property) were it not for her marriage to you?

The issue is not them comming, it is making sure they leave. Otherwise you may have a brothel in your nice cozy town

[RAZZELL]

Thai's could just as easily argue "if you can come to my country, then I should be able to come to yours"... how easy would have it been for your wife to get into your country (let alone afford property) were it not for her marriage to you?

The issue is not them comming, it is making sure they leave. Otherwise you may have a brothel in your nice cozy town

Not too sure what that's suppose to mean....

[newworks]

Thai's could just as easily argue "if you can come to my country, then I should be able to come to yours"... how easy would have it been for your wife to get into your country (let alone afford property) were it not for her marriage to you?

The issue is not them comming, it is making sure they leave. Otherwise you may have a brothel in your nice cozy town

exactly! well said!

[Pleng_Farrang]

Thai's could just as easily argue "if you can come to my country, then I should be able to come to yours"... how easy would have it been for your wife to get into your country (let alone afford property) were it not for her marriage to you?

The issue is not them comming, it is making sure they leave. Otherwise you may have a brothel in your nice cozy town

Exactly... we have to have security measures in force to stop an end result.

The Thai's need to be able to afford to live... if everybody who wanted to own property in Thailand could afford to do so, there is a real risk that Thai's could never afford to own land in thier own country.

As for deciding weather investment in Thai property is a good idea... think of it like this: Banks pay people thousands of pounds a year to investigate the possibility of providing Mortgages in other countries, and there are many places where they have branched into doing so. Not a single bank in my country (not even the one's with special "finger breaking" clauses in the "failure to repay" section of the mortgage agreement) will touch properties in Thailand. That was more than enough to tell me to give up on the idea!

[FlyingDutchman]

Wow ... heavy visited topic. What I understand about the whole thing, is a check-up of the background of invested money. Foreign investments are not illegal, but restricted. I understand that at the 'borderline of investments' an investigation will be held to check if the money invested is legal or illegal.

... I guess with drugs-money invested, you'll have a problem now ...

[Again, maybe I misunderstand the whole thing ... then please let me know]

[pschef]

one would have to be pretty resourceless to trust their 'wife' to be the owner of the houses, especially if we're talking an expensive house... 'wives' come and go, ESPECIALLY in Thailand.... just my .02

SorryMate depend do u have any kids, I dont give ashit who owns the house land whatever. U made a commitment up to u init why u all so worry I dont know?? Sorry I left 100. 000 pound huse with my ex in the word if our famous writer i dont give a hoot. why did we come here???

[gharknes]

this is not about the individual Farang buying land and a house, it's about foreign conpanies/organisations buying the land from Thais and building on it to make profit, it seems that the capitalistic style is getting less popular with the locals, quite understandable if you ask me

[JimmyGreaves]

SorryMate depend do u have any kids, I dont give ashit who owns the house land whatever. U made a commitment up to u init why u all so worry I dont know?? Sorry I left 100. 000 pound huse with my ex in the word if our famous writer i dont give a hoot. why did we come here???

Write English please, this is garbage.

Edited May 30, 2006 by jflundy

[Patriot]

love him or hate him, it was actually TORNADO who strongly advised me to use the "lease" option as opposed to the "company" when I bought land through him because of his gut feeling that the latter would prove complicated at a later date. That was three and a half years ago.

Advise was heeded, thanks bud, I'll be seeing you in a month or so for a beer/vodka/red wine