Scammed? Billed for 2Gb extra RAM, XP sees only 1Gb extra

[a1falang]

I have an Acer eMachine EZ1700 All-In-One that originally came with 2Gb RAM. I went to the official Acer Service Center at Pantip to upgrade to 4Gb. After installed, I asked them to show me. Right-mouse-click on My Computer and "2.99 Gb of RAM". I queried this and the counter girl said "Oh need upgrade Windows 8 for 1Gb can to appear." Is this for real?

PS The whole point was to upgrade to Windows 8, but I wanted 4Gb so I could gradually transition from XP by using a special program that allows you to switch back and forth between 2 OS running simultaneously. 2Gb of RAM per OS is recommended, and I fear 1.5Gb each might be not be enough when also running Office programs and other software under each.

[HooHaa]

yes, xp 32 bit will only show 3 gig, in a situation like tihs the internet and 'the google' are a great place to seek answers.

transition? why not just do it? install classic shell under windows 8.1 and just get on with it.

turn off the corner and side zones as well or you will go mad.

by the way, your Acer E machine all in 1 is a 5 year old bit of kit, with a dog atom slow processor which may very likely not support 64 bit OS.

Atom processors are generally used intablets and smart phones.

Edited March 3, 2014 by HooHaa

[DogNo1]

Your machine IS old and slow. Upgrade to an i3 with 8GB of RAM and you'll have a speedy (and much more pleasant) experience. Incidentally, I just bought a new machine here at Phantip and installed Windows 7. I have an i7 desktop back in Tokyo with Windows 8.1 installed but couldn't figure out how to use some of the Windows programs. Skype for Win 8 is baffling. Unless you have a touchscreen and are used to swiping here and there to reveal dialogues,the programs are tough to use. I downgraded to Skype for Windows desktop and am very happy.

[Chicog]

Pointless downgrading to an inferior version when you can just add Classic Shell and drive the new OS with a familiar interface.

But I agree with Skype for Desktop.

They should have called it WindoW 8.

Edited March 3, 2014 by Chicog

[rhythmworx]

WIndows XP is a ticking timebomb BTW.

Come April when there is no longer any Microsoft updates or support available hackers will pounce like a polar bear on a man wearing rib eye beef steaks.

OK I'm being pedantic there but maybe its time for an upgrade

Edited March 3, 2014 by rhythmworx

[ignis]

Think it is not made clear..

Max 3 GB is used in 32 bit, makes NO difference if that is XP or the new Windows 8... to use more you need to use 64 bit.... can your Acer eMachine handle 64 bit ?

I do wonder why IT shops don't try to explain this... friend has a new PC built with 16 GB Ram, then had 32 bit Windows 8.1 installed and said it was no faster or better than his old PC.... he is Thai so no language problem but was never told.

EG: 32-bit versions of Windows have low memory limits. The maximum amount of RAM supported by a 32-bit version of Windows 8, Windows 7, Windows Vista, and Windows XP

[sustento]

If you raise 2 to the power of 32 you will arrive at 4GB. 32 bits=4GB. You can stick 937 terrabytes of memory in your PC and a 32 bit operating system will only see 4GB of it. Damn that binary arithmetic! lol

[DogNo1]

When I get back to Tokyo, I will add a classic shell and see how that works for me. Thanks.

[ignis]

Yes on the Web Tech pages it says 32 bit system max is 4 GB usable..

But never got that.... why ?

old PC reads

Installed memory [Ram] 6 GB [2.98 GB Usable] 32 bit Win 7................ wanted 64 bit but some programs needed would not work or run correctly had to install 32 bit

old Laptop

Installed memory [Ram] 4 GB [2.98 GB Usable] 32 bit Vista

newer Laptop

Installed memory [Ram] 4 GB [2.99 GB Usable] 32 bit Win XP......... bought Laptop with Win 7 installed, but important work related programs would not run had to downgrade to XP

Look like the OP has the same Max 3 GB usable

No problem with my 8 GB Ram in main PC with 64 bit Win 8............. just loads of Programs will not run = also have to have Laptop open = right pain but as 64 bit Win 7 is not any better have to put up with it.. maybe one day some of these non compatible big Company Servers will run up to date programs ?

Edited March 4, 2014 by ignis

[harrry]

Yes on the Web Tech pages it says 32 bit system max is 4 GB usable..

But never got that.... why ?

old PC reads

Installed memory [Ram] 6 GB [2.98 GB Usable] 32 bit Win 7................ wanted 64 bit but some programs needed would not work or run correctly

old Laptop

Installed memory [Ram] 4 GB [2.98 GB Usable] 32 bit Vista

newer Laptop

Installed memory [Ram] 4 GB [2.98 GB Usable] 32 bit Win XP......... bought Laptop with Win 7 installed, but important work related programs would not run had to downgrade to XP

No problem with my 8 GB Ram in main PC with 64 bit Win 8

You have 4g but some is used for the os. It tells you you have nearly 3 g available for program etc uses.

[ignis]

You have 4g but some is used for the os. It tells you you have nearly 3 g available for program etc uses.

Thanks for that

so the OP has the same Max 2.99 GB usable the rest is used for the OS ? makes you wonder why the IT shop did not tell that to the OP ? Maybe wanted more baht to sell and install Windows 8

[Tywais]

Just to clarify why one doesn't see the full 4GB in Windows 32-bit is that the hardware address space gets mapped to the memory space. In other words, I/O is normally memory mapped and on notebooks the graphics card memory may be mapped to memory space resulting in less actual memory space available for applications/OS.

[WhizBang]

Microsoft has also built limitations into some OS versions that limit the amount of memory the OS will see/use.

Part of this strategy is to force users to upgrade the OS to higher speced (and priced) versions.

[a1falang]

Interesting how this thread has gone. Good to know I wasn't scammed!

HooHaa: my plan is install software and tweak settings under Windows 8, import data and settings for Outlook, browsers etc. while maintaining full functionality under Windows XP. I still need to be able to get work done quickly, and I'm used to my current but outdated set-up (e.g. Office 2003). Once my Windows 8 installation is running smoothly and I'm used to the new interface for Office 2013 etc, I'll dump XP outright. True the Atom processor is quite crippled but only need to use this PC for basic applications and simple work tasks, no 3D gaming or HD video editing or anything like that.

DogNo1: would buy a new PC if I had the budget right now. Will aim for at least an i3 if not an i5 or i7 with loads of RAM when I do eventually make a new purchase, as I need to have a computer than can do more graphics-intensive work later.

[harrry]

Microsoft has also built limitations into some OS versions that limit the amount of memory the OS will see/use.

Part of this strategy is to force users to upgrade the OS to higher speced (and priced) versions.

No strategy. The reason has been given above.

Posted Today, 06:58

If you raise 2 to the power of 32 you will arrive at 4GB. 32 bits=4GB. You can stick 937 terrabytes of memory in your PC and a 32 bit operating system will only see 4GB of it. dam_n that binary arithmetic! lol

[ignis]

Interesting how this thread has gone. Good to know I wasn't scammed!

HooHaa: my plan is install software and tweak settings under Windows 8, import data and settings for Outlook, browsers etc. while maintaining full functionality under Windows XP. I still need to be able to get work done quickly, and I'm used to my current but outdated set-up (e.g. Office 2003). Once my Windows 8 installation is running smoothly and I'm used to the new interface for Office 2013 etc, I'll dump XP outright. True the Atom processor is quite crippled but only need to use this PC for basic applications and simple work tasks, no 3D gaming or HD video editing or anything like that.

DogNo1: would buy a new PC if I had the budget right now. Will aim for at least an i3 if not an i5 or i7 with loads of RAM when I do eventually make a new purchase, as I need to have a computer than can do more graphics-intensive work later.

Bit off topic, but for FREE is a very good Office Suite... Kingsoft Office

myself have not used M$ Office for a long time on my main PC. do have Office 2003 on the old laptop, Office 2007 and Open Office on another, but this PC and the one before use Kingsoft Office..

http://www.ksosoft.com/product/office-free.html

Edited March 4, 2014 by ignis

[sniffdog]

No, you were not scammed. 3GB is all what 32 bits see. And, if you are going to use a VM to run two or more OS together, you need more than 4GB for sure.

I run Parallels on my Mac with 16Gb and only 4Gb is left after running OSX/Windows.

[Richard-BKK]

A Intel 32-bits x86 processor, or a 64-bits x86 processor running in 32-bits mode, can only address 4GB. But this 4GB is not fully available to the user as peripherals in the computer also need an address. This peripherals are PCI bus and every PCI device, USB, Serial and parallel printer port (even you not have them on your mainboard), SATA/PATA controllers, etc etc... also to make a motherboard compatible with “older” operating systems they also reserve the original VGA memory (I think it was 256MB).

Some of the newer mainboards have sometimes an option in the BIOS that give you the option to relocate the memory. But this not always works for a 32-bits OS and you at best get 512MB more and the computer will not really be any faster as the relocated memory is much slower.

[a1falang]

I've decided to ditch the "run XP and 8 simultaneously under Virtual Machine" idea. I have a second low-end all-in-one (Lenovo also with Intel Atom D525) with 2Gb I'll just upgrade to Windows 8 and install Office 2013 and Chrome on. Once I've synced bookmarks, tweaked the new setup and I'm used to the new interface, I'll use that as a temporary workstation while I upgrade my normal computer with 4Gb.

Now, the Intel Atom D525 is apparently dual-core with 64-bit "instruction set" and is "Intel® 64" ready according to http://ark.intel.com/products/49490 So, when the time comes to upgrade my 4Gb computer, should I install 64-bit version of Windows 8 and 64-bit version of everything? I want to use Adobe Photoshop and InDesign/Illustrator but only for basic DTP stuff, nothing commercial grade.

(Yes, upgrading to an octo-core i9 with mega-extreme-hyper-threading and bazillion Gb RAM or a Mac Pro Plus Max would be better, no, don't have the budget.)

Edited March 5, 2014 by a1falang

[ignis]

I've decided to ditch the "run XP and 8 simultaneously under Virtual Machine" idea. I have a second low-end all-in-one (Lenovo also with Intel Atom D525) with 2Gb I'll just upgrade to Windows 8 and install Office 2013 and Chrome on. Once I've synced bookmarks, tweaked the new setup and I'm used to the new interface, I'll use that as a temporary workstation while I upgrade my normal computer with 4Gb.

Now, the Intel Atom D525 is apparently dual-core with 64-bit "instruction set" and is "Intel® 64" ready according to http://ark.intel.com/products/49490 So, when the time comes to upgrade my 4Gb computer, should I install 64-bit version of Windows 8 and 64-bit version of everything? I want to use Adobe Photoshop and InDesign/Illustrator but only for basic DTP stuff, nothing commercial grade.

(Yes, upgrading to an octo-core i9 with mega-extreme-hyper-threading and bazillion Gb RAM or a Mac Pro Plus Max would be better, no, don't have the budget.)

Maybe have a read of this www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/506308-hackintosh/?pid=4783986#entry4783986

Not a 100% true Mac but then nor is the price Hackintosh, if you do a search appears a number of people here will build you a good system for 25 - 30,000 baht... just an idea ?

[a1falang]

I've decided to ditch the "run XP and 8 simultaneously under Virtual Machine" idea. I have a second low-end all-in-one (Lenovo also with Intel Atom D525) with 2Gb I'll just upgrade to Windows 8 and install Office 2013 and Chrome on. Once I've synced bookmarks, tweaked the new setup and I'm used to the new interface, I'll use that as a temporary workstation while I upgrade my normal computer with 4Gb.

Now, the Intel Atom D525 is apparently dual-core with 64-bit "instruction set" and is "Intel® 64" ready according to http://ark.intel.com/products/49490 So, when the time comes to upgrade my 4Gb computer, should I install 64-bit version of Windows 8 and 64-bit version of everything? I want to use Adobe Photoshop and InDesign/Illustrator but only for basic DTP stuff, nothing commercial grade.

(Yes, upgrading to an octo-core i9 with mega-extreme-hyper-threading and bazillion Gb RAM or a Mac Pro Plus Max would be better, no, don't have the budget.)

Maybe have a read of this www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/506308-hackintosh/?pid=4783986#entry4783986

Not a 100% true Mac but then nor is the price Hackintosh, if you do a search appears a number of people here will build you a good system for 25 - 30,000 baht... just an idea ?

Thanks for the thought but I've made it pretty clear I have no budget for a new system right now. I spent what I had (or at least the maximum I'm willing to spend on a 4-year-old computer) on the 4Gb RAM. Now I just need some advice on whether to install 32- or 64-bit software to make maximum use of my existing set-up. Despite being underpowered/outdated/obsolete by today's standards, my PC still quite functional and useful for 99% of my daily tasks.

[phazey]

As i mentioned in another thread, boot 32Bit windows with the /PAE switch to see more than 3GB

Or Google "Physical Address Extension"

Or install a 64Bit operating system

Forget it, i googled for you:

To enable PAE on a 32 bit Window XP OS click on run in the start menu. Type sysdm.cpl in the text box and click enter. Next click on the advanced tab and choose settings from the performance heading. Then click on the data execution prevention tab and go to the bottom of the box to see if it PAE is enable or not. If it is not, go back to run in the start menu and type notepad c:\boot.ini and click enter. Find the /noexecute switch and enter a space and /pae at the end of the /noexecute command. Your next step is to save and then restart your computer to activate the changes.

Edited March 5, 2014 by phazey

[Dork]

You can install 64 bit Windows on an Intel Atom machine. I've done that in the past and it's fine even though those Atom based netbooks are pretty sluggish.

I was pretty sure that the Atom processor itself limits RAM. Some of them can't go over 2GB. Obviously that's not the case with your machine.

[manarak]

love the conspiracy theories backed by ignorant pseudo-facts!!

LOL

2 things usually limit usable memory:

- processor (32 bit windows sees only 3GB)

- motherboard (some of the smaller netbooks are limited to 2GB RAM)

Anyone should do himself a favor and get a 64 bit processor and 8 GB RAM to go with it, and preferably a SSD to install the system on.

Edited March 5, 2014 by manarak

[DogNo1]

Doesn't Microsoft have a program that allows you to run XP applications in compatibility mode? Perhaps you can use your XP applications in Windows 8. BTW, Microsoft recommends installing Office 2013 32-bit even on a 64 bit OS. Also, beware Outlook 2013. It's hard to import your contacts from earlier versions. Lots of discussion on MS Tech Net.

[wolf5370]

WIndows XP is a ticking timebomb BTW.

Come April when there is no longer any Microsoft updates or support available hackers will pounce like a polar bear on a man wearing rib eye beef steaks.

OK I'm being pedantic there but maybe its time for an upgrade

M$ have stated, sort of, that they will continue to support XP until 2015 in China as there has been such a low move to Windows 7/8 - they are also supporting embedded XP (like used in ATMs) until 2016. So, it may be possible to still get updates via China's update servers - someone will figure out to do it when the time comes. Although, for XP, just move to Win7, very little reason not to IMO. I hate Win8 on PC, great on tablets/phone, but more hassle than it is worth on PC IMHO.

As to XP 32 (assuming you don't have XP 64, which I doubt given you are using an Atom), only 2GB will show up usually - there is a tweak that you can do to get up to 3GB (almost) to show up (too long ago to remember details now, so Google it) - but not 4GB. You should be able to see it in the BIOS though.

[phazey]

love the conspiracy theories backed by ignorant pseudo-facts!!

LOL

2 things usually limit usable memory:

- processor (32 bit windows sees only 3GB)

- motherboard (some of the smaller netbooks are limited to 2GB RAM)

Anyone should do himself a favor and get a 64 bit processor and 8 GB RAM to go with it, and preferably a SSD to install the system on.

I dont know if i was writing in a clear font or what.

/PAE allows XP goes past the 3Gb limit on a 32bit processor.

Motherboard limits - yeah, I had one machine that would only see 3.66GB

[Dork]

love the conspiracy theories backed by ignorant pseudo-facts!!

LOL

2 things usually limit usable memory:

- processor (32 bit windows sees only 3GB)

- motherboard (some of the smaller netbooks are limited to 2GB RAM)

Anyone should do himself a favor and get a 64 bit processor and 8 GB RAM to go with it, and preferably a SSD to install the system on.

Some versions of the Intel Atom do indeed limit RAM. However their reasons for imposing the limit are marketing rather than technical. So you could say that they are intentionally crippled.

https://communities.intel.com/thread/33466

I recall those Acer Aspire One series netbooks that were popular 2-3 years ago. The Intel Atom versions limited RAM to 2MB but the AMD versions didn't.

[ignis]

Some versions of the Intel Atom do indeed limit RAM. However their reasons for imposing the limit are marketing rather than technical. So you could say that they are intentionally crippled.

https://communities.intel.com/thread/33466

I recall those Acer Aspire One series netbooks that were popular 2-3 years ago. The Intel Atom versions limited RAM to 2MB but the AMD versions didn't.

Odd.. re post # 6 all my PCs/Laptops over the years and to-date have been AMD, and never shown over 3 GB

[DogNo1]

A ray of hope for disgruntled Windows 8 users. Microsoft has just announced the release of Windows 8.1 SP1 which is said to move some controls to the desktop to make Windows 8 more friendly to mouse users!