Rice prices dropped to 8,000 - 8,200 baht per ton

[issanaus]

One must keep in mind what the topic on the thread is that prices are dropping for rice in Thailand, and it is not because of a decrease in the international price, and the forces of supply and demand, it is internal monopoly on rice middleman that is taking advantage of the Thai Rice farmers.

When it cost more to produce the rice then you can sell it for it is time to look into other crops to grow or to leave farming completely and sell you crop land to developers!

Thailand has lost its ranking on rice exporting that it will never gain again by paying lower prices to the farmer!

Cheers

The reason why prices are dropping:-

Thailand has a rice mountain created by the government buying rice at a price that exceeded any achievable price on the international markets. Agricultural products are sold as price takers not price setters.

Before this scheme Thailand had a reputation as a reliable supplier of quality rice that had product for sale in all years. International markets were will to pay premium prices because G2G buyers were interested in food security for their own countries. This scheme had lead to a loss of confidence in Thailand as a supplier and therefor buyers willingness to pay a premium price.

The virtual withdrawal of Thai rice from international markets under this scheme has also encouraged other suppliers to increase their production as the withdraw of a major supplier ensured that the market would support a higher price than would have been possible otherwise.

Adding to the problems is the knowledge in the market that Thailand has a stock pile that it needs to dispose of ASAP. this strengthens that position of buyers in the market for Thai rice and will tend to depress the international and internal price of rice below what it would otherwise be.

If the real goal of this scheme had been to increase the income of rice farmers then there were so many better alternatives - OK they may not have had the same vote buying and skimming opportunities for government and supporters.

Metta

[Thait Spot]

Pattayaorganic

Well you obviously know nothing about agricultural business and how it works. The rice millers have investment in large infrastructure for milling and they have to purchase raw material, pay for the labor, energy and capital expenses and make a reasonable profit on the their polished rice that they sell.

So you are stating that the rice scheme itself has not any problems at all on the government side it is only the evil rice millers that are at fault here? Wow...obviously you have more in the scrotum than in the skull.

Bottom line is that Dr. Taksin in all his genius thought that he could keep Thai rice off the international market and the price would skyrocket and then everybody would profit (except the poor people who depend on cheap rice) and everything would be dandy.

Well it didn't quite work out that way. This scheme has lost more money in two years than it took to build one of the most expensive science projects in history, the Large Hadron Collider. Don't you think rural Thais would have been much better off if some of that money was invested in schools and teachers and agricultural extension service to support Thai farmers who want to diversify their crops? That is how a market economy works.

This is also the reason why centrally planned economies do NOT work. Rural Thailand needs investment in education and agricultural extension but that doesn't fill the coffers of the Taksin Elite. The man who supposedly was out for the rural Thais took them to the cleaners and ran away with billions while farmers are left to kill themselves and their worthless IOU slips.

Kikoman

I disagree with your comment "Wow...obviously you have more in the scrotum than in the skull". a person that has more in the skull does not resort to below the belt comments.to make a point!

On the international market today according to www.riceauthority.com/prices ,on 5% broken white rice.

Thailand $549.per ton

Myanmar $446.30 " "

Cambodia $560. " "

Vietnam $428, " "

Pakistan $475. " "

India $460 " "

Brazil $550. " "

USA $530. " "

The article did not say who is offering the 8000-8200 bath per ton, which is in the area of $300 per ton less then the international market price. Actually more than what the Thai rice farmer will be paid for his rice!

Only adds up to Thai middle man trying to take advantage of Thai rice farmers, It won't take long for the rice farmers to find out that PTP is the one watching out for their interest!

Your logic is out of line no one has the right to make more money on Thailand's rice than the rice farmers, there is no way you or anyone else can justify what you posted!

Cheers

AAAAGGGGGHHHHHH. Please.

The price at the port FOB INCLUDES YIELD LOSS DURING PROCESSING

I have said this hundreds of times on this forum. It is not like an orange where one kilogram off the tree makes one kilogram on your plate.

1 kilogram from the farmer in Thailand under perfect conditions makes maybe 75 grams on your plate. There is moisture and all the husk that will be removed.

So 8000 * 25% = 2000+8000= 10,000 baht. Plus costs and margin = 11,000 baht + shipping to the port at BEST. Yes the middleman gets paid too much but.....

Please people stop comparing the price that the farmer receives with what the buyer pays at the port. It is not a comparison price.

Why would the price for milling rice be any more expensive today then what it has been in past years. the argument does not hold water! The difference between 5% broken and 25% broken is only $5. per ton cheaper on the international market prices .today,

Why should the millers make a bigger profit on the rice then the farmers!

You really have no clue at all.

You've had all this explained a hundred times and still can't manage to get your head around it.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[looping]

The world over it is the farmers who take the risk and get shafted by the bulk selling middle people.

Not under Abhisit's rice mortgage scheme it wasn't!!!!!

Nonsense. If anything it was more prone to millers robbing the ordinary farmers.

Under the previous insurance scheme of of Abhisit , farmers sold to millers and were reimbursed for the difference if the rice was bought below 11,000 baht. With the PTP rice mortgage scheme, farmers will sell rice directly to the government for 15,000 baht.

By all means complain and mock this joke of a policy that is literally ruining the economy, but don`t let your yellow specks convince you the Dem version was corruption free or ideal. The only reason it was slightly more sustainable was because it didnt pay them as much.

Still find this forum amazing in the way so many guys mock a corrupt and inefficient government and crave an equally corrupt and inefficient one to return in its place. The fact they are both useless is beyond their comprehension.

FYI Until money is paid for rice, it's theft, plain and simple, or zero baht per KG, if you prefer.

Still better than Abhisit's system?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[JRSoul]

One must keep in mind what the topic on the thread is that prices are dropping for rice in Thailand, and it is not because of a decrease in the international price, and the forces of supply and demand, it is internal monopoly on rice middleman that is taking advantage of the Thai Rice farmers.

When it cost more to produce the rice then you can sell it for it is time to look into other crops to grow or to leave farming completely and sell you crop land to developers!

Thailand has lost its ranking on rice exporting that it will never gain again by paying lower prices to the farmer!

Cheers

"When it cost more to produce the rice then you can sell it for it is time to look into other crops to grow or to leave farming completely and sell you crop land to developers!"

Well what do you know, a rational statement! Now explain why you support a government that wasted B800+ billion on subsidies and corruption rather than adopt this philosophy.

[metisdead]

A post with illegible quotes has been removed. Learn to use the quote system when quoting other people, then it's easier to see who said what.

[AleG]

Kikoman,

Your rant has nothing to do with the current price paid to Thai Farmers today! One understands that there are more categories of rice sold other than 5% broken, but the price of 5% broken was what Thailand was being undersold on the international market by Vietnam and India!

Yesterday Thai Basmati rice grade A (53/54) was selling at $1115 per metric ton, and the lowest price for Thai Rice was White broken A1 super at $532. with 15 other categories of rice selling between those prices..

Now back on topic, your Capitalist argument in support of market prices is off topic. The topic of the thread is Rice prices has dropped to 8000-8200 baht per ton) That drop has not been fueled by a drop in international demand, which result in lower price on the market based on supply and demand.

That is not the case of the rice price drop in the Thai national rice prices, It is only caused by the middleman manipulating the national prices paid for rice due to the monopoly enjoyed in the present system that needs to be addressed by any new government.

One can already see the greed of the powers that be in the manipulation of rice prices aimed at cheating the farmer to increase their profit! It surprises me that the greedy would not wait till the present crisis is over,

as the rice farmers will see the intent of PTP rice scheme was to protect the nations farmers.

Again I would like to see you rice millers supporters address the topic, of prices paid to Thai rice farmers that is not caused by international supply and demand!

Cheers

You were soooo close to get it:

"That drop has not been fueled by a drop in international demand, which result in lower price on the market based on supply and demand"

But you choose to focus on the demand without bothering with the supply side.

There is a glut of rice thanks to the ruinous Rice Scheme, that is what is driving prices down for the farmers, there's a mountain of rice the government is trying to sell at bellow market prices they have to compete against.

[Moruya]

One must keep in mind what the topic on the thread is that prices are dropping for rice in Thailand, and it is not because of a decrease in the international price, and the forces of supply and demand, it is internal monopoly on rice middleman that is taking advantage of the Thai Rice farmers.

When it cost more to produce the rice then you can sell it for it is time to look into other crops to grow or to leave farming completely and sell you crop land to developers!

Thailand has lost its ranking on rice exporting that it will never gain again by paying lower prices to the farmer!

Cheers

Have you considered a career with the current government in the Ministry of Finance?

You clearly have a flare for it.

[ginjag]

One must keep in mind what the topic on the thread is that prices are dropping for rice in Thailand, and it is not because of a decrease in the international price, and the forces of supply and demand, it is internal monopoly on rice middleman that is taking advantage of the Thai Rice farmers.

When it cost more to produce the rice then you can sell it for it is time to look into other crops to grow or to leave farming completely and sell you crop land to developers!

Thailand has lost its ranking on rice exporting that it will never gain again by paying lower prices to the farmer!

Cheers

"When it cost more to produce the rice then you can sell it for it is time to look into other crops to grow or to leave farming completely and sell you crop land to developers!"

Well what do you know, a rational statement! Now explain why you support a government that wasted B800+ billion on subsidies and corruption rather than adopt this philosophy.

Kikoman-- easier said than done--re sell--leave farming ???

<deleted>, come on think about it, the family farmer in Issan Him and his Misses and gran and helpers/neighbours. THIS is all they know, generations on the same bit of land.

So you suggest they sell and what ??? open up a 7-11 in the village,??? bleeding crazy remark. leave farming completely ???? you have to be joking.

How on earth will these families live??? and who is going to buy their little bit of land in and amongst other bits of land 400 meters off road. ???

Kikoman this is not a European with a corner plot to spare.

Kikoman, you are also not the sharpest knife in the kitchen to make statements like this, clearly not living amongst rural family farmers.

Edited March 8, 2014 by ginjag

[Robby nz]

In any industry there is a whole chain from the producer to the customer.

As well as the theory behind the scheme what the Govt actually did was remove a link in the chain , the buyer, and attempt to insert itself in as that link without the knowledge, customers or expertise to do the job.

I remember way back when this started the reds chortling that it was great that the crooked buyers would be forced out of business, well what happened was that many buyers went elsewhere and took their loyal customers with them

For to keep their customers they had to supply the product the customer wanted when they wanted it.

Now with the collapse of the scheme the farmers are selling their product through the mills and buyers again and it is a buyers market which they will always take advantage of.

However there is some competition among buyers because they all have different customers who have different needs but there will be a decreased buyer base now because some will have found they can do very well thank you elsewhere.

The chain will take time to fully mend again and those repairs are being hampered by a Govt increasingly desperate to sell the stockpiles in completion with the farmers.

Stockpiles the buyers don't really want because their customers, in most instances don't want old rice.

Hence the need for G 2G deals.

[kikoman]

One must keep in mind what the topic on the thread is that prices are dropping for rice in Thailand, and it is not because of a decrease in the international price, and the forces of supply and demand, it is internal monopoly on rice middleman that is taking advantage of the Thai Rice farmers.

When it cost more to produce the rice then you can sell it for it is time to look into other crops to grow or to leave farming completely and sell you crop land to developers!

Thailand has lost its ranking on rice exporting that it will never gain again by paying lower prices to the farmer!

Cheers

"When it cost more to produce the rice then you can sell it for it is time to look into other crops to grow or to leave farming completely and sell you crop land to developers!"

Well what do you know, a rational statement! Now explain why you support a government that wasted B800+ billion on subsidies and corruption rather than adopt this philosophy.

Kikoman-- easier said than done--re sell--leave farming ???

<deleted>, come on think about it, the family farmer in Issan Him and his Misses and gran and helpers/neighbours. THIS is all they know, generations on the same bit of land.

So you suggest they sell and what ??? open up a 7-11 in the village,??? bleeding crazy remark. leave farming completely ???? you have to be joking.

How on earth will these families live??? and who is going to buy their little bit of land in and amongst other bits of land 400 meters off road. ???

Kikoman this is not a European with a corner plot to spare.

Kikoman, you are also not the sharpest knife in the kitchen to make statements like this, clearly not living amongst rural family farmers.

I happen to be a resident for a decade in a rice farming village outside of Nakhon Sawan, we had twenty one local extended family's growing rice, Three families have quit rice farming and gone into other occupations one will drive a van he brought by selling his land to drive in Chiang Mai, the other went to Bangkok to open a store and sell clothes, did not sell their land, the other has moved to Nakhon Sawan to sell food, there are others waiting to see what happens in the rice market.

My FIL left rice farming a decade ago and make a lot better living as maintenance man of an enclose housing community in Bangkok.

My, must have hit on your insecurity, you have dwelled on that comment in your last couple of post!

Most of your post are hilarious, as I read them to the family, and have a good laugh!

Cheers

Edited March 8, 2014 by kikoman

[ginjag]

One must keep in mind what the topic on the thread is that prices are dropping for rice in Thailand, and it is not because of a decrease in the international price, and the forces of supply and demand, it is internal monopoly on rice middleman that is taking advantage of the Thai Rice farmers.

When it cost more to produce the rice then you can sell it for it is time to look into other crops to grow or to leave farming completely and sell you crop land to developers!

Thailand has lost its ranking on rice exporting that it will never gain again by paying lower prices to the farmer!

Cheers

"When it cost more to produce the rice then you can sell it for it is time to look into other crops to grow or to leave farming completely and sell you crop land to developers!"

Well what do you know, a rational statement! Now explain why you support a government that wasted B800+ billion on subsidies and corruption rather than adopt this philosophy.

Kikoman-- easier said than done--re sell--leave farming ???

<deleted>, come on think about it, the family farmer in Issan Him and his Misses and gran and helpers/neighbours. THIS is all they know, generations on the same bit of land.

So you suggest they sell and what ??? open up a 7-11 in the village,??? bleeding crazy remark. leave farming completely ???? you have to be joking.

How on earth will these families live??? and who is going to buy their little bit of land in and amongst other bits of land 400 meters off road. ???

Kikoman this is not a European with a corner plot to spare.

Kikoman, you are also not the sharpest knife in the kitchen to make statements like this, clearly not living amongst rural family farmers.

I happen to be a resident for a decade in a rice farming village outside of Nakhon Sawan, we had twenty one local extended family's growing rice, Three families have quit rice farming and gone into other occupations one will drive a van he brought by selling his land to drive in Chiang Mai, the other went to Bangkok to open a store and sell clothes, did not sell their land, the other has moved to Nakhon Sawan to sell food, there are others waiting to see what happens in the rice market.

My FIL left rice farming a decade ago and make a lot better living as maintenance man of an enclose housing community in Bangkok.

My, must have hit on your insecurity, you have dwelled on that comment in your last couple of post!

Most of your post are hilarious, as I read them to the family, and have a good laugh!

Cheers

Some families can sell some people can move ---MAJORITY CANNOT, don't you understand that ????

As you said in your area 3 out of 21 have moved on.

Many have aged parents to care for, your heartlessness is the biggest laugh.

Stop the abuse/name calling---- your family are very well versed in English for them to understand your abuse. I lived very near you for a long time, very pleased I moved.

[GuestHouse]

Kilkoman is right again, farmers unable to make a living selling rice (and indeed those who where encouraged to invest their family wealth, energy and hopes in rice production by the failed PTP Rice Scheme and who have not been paid for their rice) have an option to sell their land.

What Kilkoman has failed to do is think out the consequences of Thailand's land rich cash poor farmers selling their land. - Is this creating sustainable wealth for these people or is it making them short term cash rich long term landless - moving from land owning farmers to landless drifters?

He fails to consider has the policy been designed to create this move of land from the farmers to the big money investors.

I think it would be instructive to examine the exchange of land titles over the period of the Failed PTP Rice Scheme and into the near future to examine who exactly has benefitted from the Failed PTP Rice Scheme forcing Thailand's rice farmers further into debt.

[ginjag]

Kilkoman is right again, farmers unable to make a living selling rice (and indeed those who where encouraged to invest their family wealth, energy and hopes in rice production by the failed PTP Rice Scheme and who have not been paid for their rice) have an option to sell their land.

What Kilkoman has failed to do is think out the consequences of Thailand's land rich cash poor farmers selling their land. - Is this creating sustainable wealth for these people or is it making them short term cash rich long term landless - moving from land owning farmers to landless drifters?

He fails to consider has the policy been designed to create this move of land from the farmers to the big money investors.

I think it would be instructive to examine the exchange of land titles over the period of the Failed PTP Rice Scheme and into the near future to examine who exactly has benefitted from the Failed PTP Rice Scheme forcing Thailand's rice farmers further into debt.

He has no heart if he thinks a man and his lady can leave their home and parents and move. This farmer is the one I am talking about NOT the one with saleable land has no family to care for. MOST Thai farmers are the one man band so to speak, a cow or 2, chickens, kids at local school with grandparents on tow.

Can Kikoman suggest where 70% of Thai farmers are to move to ??? leave their Thai home, hardly saleable, and land near worthless.

[kikoman]

One must keep in mind what the topic on the thread is that prices are dropping for rice in Thailand, and it is not because of a decrease in the international price, and the forces of supply and demand, it is internal monopoly on rice middleman that is taking advantage of the Thai Rice farmers.

When it cost more to produce the rice then you can sell it for it is time to look into other crops to grow or to leave farming completely and sell you crop land to developers!

Thailand has lost its ranking on rice exporting that it will never gain again by paying lower prices to the farmer!

Cheers

The reason why prices are dropping:-

Thailand has a rice mountain created by the government buying rice at a price that exceeded any achievable price on the international markets. Agricultural products are sold as price takers not price setters.

Before this scheme Thailand had a reputation as a reliable supplier of quality rice that had product for sale in all years. International markets were will to pay premium prices because G2G buyers were interested in food security for their own countries. This scheme had lead to a loss of confidence in Thailand as a supplier and therefor buyers willingness to pay a premium price.

The virtual withdrawal of Thai rice from international markets under this scheme has also encouraged other suppliers to increase their production as the withdraw of a major supplier ensured that the market would support a higher price than would have been possible otherwise.

Adding to the problems is the knowledge in the market that Thailand has a stock pile that it needs to dispose of ASAP. this strengthens that position of buyers in the market for Thai rice and will tend to depress the international and internal price of rice below what it would otherwise be.

If the real goal of this scheme had been to increase the income of rice farmers then there were so many better alternatives - OK they may not have had the same vote buying and skimming opportunities for government and supporters.

Metta

The only area of a little fact I find in your post, about the large sales of rice available from the Thai market, due to the inability of the care taken government to sell rice since December 9, 2013.

The opposition to rice sales by the anti government protesters and the EC refusal to sign off on loan to paid the rice farmers. Also PDRC yesterday protested in front of the Chinese Embassy in an effort to force them to back out of rice sales!

On Oryza.com carried a story about Thai rice exporters spreading rumors of low prices for rice, trying to buy the rice at a low price to sell later on in the year for a hefty profit, And the Thai government warning the Thai rice Exports could be reported to the internation agency , about spreading rumors to manipulate rice pieces.

There is a large amount of rice available for immediate sale , again the figures quoted at 15000 baht per ton is not Factual as no one in the Village received more that 12000 ($372.32) per ton, with the majority of local farmer paid 11,000 baht ($341.30) per ton of rice well below the international market price.

The over supply of rice is caused by the Care taker governments inability to sell rice due to the EC lack of action and PDRC protester, with the monopoly of the rice millers and buyer manipulating rice payments to their advantage.

Cheers

[Fat Haggis]

It's a sad state of affairs that's for sure, but the realistic thing here is that even if there was to be a peoples council, they're still going to have to shift that rice, one way or another, the price is not going to go up per tonne just because there's been a t-shirt change in the Power house.

The Farmers are in a catch 22 situation, no matter who's running the country, that rice is going to have to be sold, and the PDRC needs to be very transparent on their plans as to how they're going to A Give the farmers what they're owed, and B;) How they intend to sell the rice knowing there's little chance of making a profit and C:) How thats going to change for the farmers benefits in the future.

[Goat Roper]

One must keep in mind what the topic on the thread is that prices are dropping for rice in Thailand, and it is not because of a decrease in the international price, and the forces of supply and demand, it is internal monopoly on rice middleman that is taking advantage of the Thai Rice farmers.

When it cost more to produce the rice then you can sell it for it is time to look into other crops to grow or to leave farming completely and sell you crop land to developers!

Thailand has lost its ranking on rice exporting that it will never gain again by paying lower prices to the farmer!

Cheers

The reason why prices are dropping:-

Thailand has a rice mountain created by the government buying rice at a price that exceeded any achievable price on the international markets. Agricultural products are sold as price takers not price setters.

Before this scheme Thailand had a reputation as a reliable supplier of quality rice that had product for sale in all years. International markets were will to pay premium prices because G2G buyers were interested in food security for their own countries. This scheme had lead to a loss of confidence in Thailand as a supplier and therefor buyers willingness to pay a premium price.

The virtual withdrawal of Thai rice from international markets under this scheme has also encouraged other suppliers to increase their production as the withdraw of a major supplier ensured that the market would support a higher price than would have been possible otherwise.

Adding to the problems is the knowledge in the market that Thailand has a stock pile that it needs to dispose of ASAP. this strengthens that position of buyers in the market for Thai rice and will tend to depress the international and internal price of rice below what it would otherwise be.

If the real goal of this scheme had been to increase the income of rice farmers then there were so many better alternatives - OK they may not have had the same vote buying and skimming opportunities for government and supporters.

Metta

The only area of a little fact I find in your post, about the large sales of rice available from the Thai market, due to the inability of the care taken government to sell rice since December 9, 2013.

The opposition to rice sales by the anti government protesters and the EC refusal to sign off on loan to paid the rice farmers. Also PDRC yesterday protested in front of the Chinese Embassy in an effort to force them to back out of rice sales!

On Oryza.com carried a story about Thai rice exporters spreading rumors of low prices for rice, trying to buy the rice at a low price to sell later on in the year for a hefty profit, And the Thai government warning the Thai rice Exports could be reported to the internation agency , about spreading rumors to manipulate rice pieces.

There is a large amount of rice available for immediate sale , again the figures quoted at 15000 baht per ton is not Factual as no one in the Village received more that 12000 ($372.32) per ton, with the majority of local farmer paid 11,000 baht ($341.30) per ton of rice well below the international market price.

The over supply of rice is caused by the Care taker governments inability to sell rice due to the EC lack of action and PDRC protester, with the monopoly of the rice millers and buyer manipulating rice payments to their advantage.

Cheers

All's fair in love and war.

[OMGImInPattaya]

Impossible. Doctor Thaksin assured us all that if we withhold Thai rice from the world that prices would rocket, farmers would get rich and Thailand would makes billions.

Surely he can't be wrong

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

At the time he said it he may well have been right. I remember shortages in both India and the Philippines and complains that Thailand was not selling enough to them. I can see the reverse happening as farmers say they cannot afford to have rice as a crop without subsidy.

Yes, there was all that silly talk a few years back of setting up a rice export cartel organization between the major Asian exporters. They daft government officials just forgot that there are 2-3 rice harvests per year so unlikely to be any shortages for long to sustain high prices...and it's mostly poor Asian people who eat rice so raising its price just affects how much poor Asians eat.

[Netizen]

This really is not good news for the poor, embattled farmers.

This is what happens when free markets are interfered with. Pheu Thai believed they could rig the market by withholding rice and came undone when other countries increased production.

Now Thai rice farmers will suffer because of this market manipulation.

Edited March 8, 2014 by Netizen

[Moruya]

One must keep in mind what the topic on the thread is that prices are dropping for rice in Thailand, and it is not because of a decrease in the international price, and the forces of supply and demand, it is internal monopoly on rice middleman that is taking advantage of the Thai Rice farmers.

When it cost more to produce the rice then you can sell it for it is time to look into other crops to grow or to leave farming completely and sell you crop land to developers!

Thailand has lost its ranking on rice exporting that it will never gain again by paying lower prices to the farmer!

Cheers

"When it cost more to produce the rice then you can sell it for it is time to look into other crops to grow or to leave farming completely and sell you crop land to developers!"

Well what do you know, a rational statement! Now explain why you support a government that wasted B800+ billion on subsidies and corruption rather than adopt this philosophy.

Kikoman-- easier said than done--re sell--leave farming ???

<deleted>, come on think about it, the family farmer in Issan Him and his Misses and gran and helpers/neighbours. THIS is all they know, generations on the same bit of land.

So you suggest they sell and what ??? open up a 7-11 in the village,??? bleeding crazy remark. leave farming completely ???? you have to be joking.

How on earth will these families live??? and who is going to buy their little bit of land in and amongst other bits of land 400 meters off road. ???

Kikoman this is not a European with a corner plot to spare.

Kikoman, you are also not the sharpest knife in the kitchen to make statements like this, clearly not living amongst rural family farmers.

I happen to be a resident for a decade in a rice farming village outside of Nakhon Sawan, we had twenty one local extended family's growing rice, Three families have quit rice farming and gone into other occupations one will drive a van he brought by selling his land to drive in Chiang Mai, the other went to Bangkok to open a store and sell clothes, did not sell their land, the other has moved to Nakhon Sawan to sell food, there are others waiting to see what happens in the rice market.

My FIL left rice farming a decade ago and make a lot better living as maintenance man of an enclose housing community in Bangkok.

My, must have hit on your insecurity, you have dwelled on that comment in your last couple of post!

Most of your post are hilarious, as I read them to the family, and have a good laugh!

Cheers

so what are you growing now?

apart from a thick skin that is

[AleG]

The only area of a little fact I find in your post, about the large sales of rice available from the Thai market, due to the inability of the care taken government to sell rice since December 9, 2013.

The opposition to rice sales by the anti government protesters and the EC refusal to sign off on loan to paid the rice farmers. Also PDRC yesterday protested in front of the Chinese Embassy in an effort to force them to back out of rice sales!

On Oryza.com carried a story about Thai rice exporters spreading rumors of low prices for rice, trying to buy the rice at a low price to sell later on in the year for a hefty profit, And the Thai government warning the Thai rice Exports could be reported to the internation agency , about spreading rumors to manipulate rice pieces.

There is a large amount of rice available for immediate sale , again the figures quoted at 15000 baht per ton is not Factual as no one in the Village received more that 12000 ($372.32) per ton, with the majority of local farmer paid 11,000 baht ($341.30) per ton of rice well below the international market price.

The over supply of rice is caused by the Care taker governments inability to sell rice due to the EC lack of action and PDRC protester, with the monopoly of the rice millers and buyer manipulating rice payments to their advantage.

Cheers

The over supply of rice is caused by the Care taker governments inability to sell rice due to the EC lack of action and PDRC protester, with the monopoly of the rice millers and buyer manipulating rice payments to their advantage.

If you repeat a falsehood often enough it doesn't become true, it only makes you look dishonest; which discredits your arguments and undermines those who you try to defend. Besides that, you do know that there's a forum rule about posting patently false information, don't you?

The government couldn't sell enough rice to sustain the scheme since long before the protest started, that is the reason there are between 13 and 18 million tons of rice that has been accumulated since the beggining of the Rice Scheme, that is the reason why Thailand fell from the 1st place in rice exports to the third, that is why they had to resort to secretive G2G deals (most probably dumping the rice under market price, plus a few greased palms) all that and more is the reason they ran out of money to pay the farmers since at least September last year (two months before the protests began)

BANGKOK, Sept 12 – The Finance Ministry is responsible for finding funding, be it through domestic or foreign loans, for the new round of rice pledging scheme which will cost the government Bt270 billion, according to the deputy prime minister/commerce minister.

Niwatthamrong Boonsongpaisan was referring to an earlier statement by the Finance Ministry that it ran out of budget for rice purchase from farmers, starting October 1.

Here's what sales looked in July 2013 (around 6 months before Suthep or the EC had any involvement):

Thailand's failed rice scheme creates moulding mountains of grain

...

Since the program began in 2011, the government has bought about 36 million tonnes of rice, paying farmers $US11 billion while earning $US1.9 billion by selling some.

Of course, as always, you are going to ignore the facts and continue to peddle falsehoods.

[kikoman]

I agree with only one point you made if you repeat a falsehood often enough you would come to believe it.

Rice has been piling up since the 9 december 2013, when the government could no longer sell it, after the Ammart instigated run on the banks, on protesters doing every thing possible to prolong the farmers suffering.

But the EC is the only agency under the constitution that has the final ok on any loans to pay farmers had refused to do so thinking they had the upper hand and Yingluck would step down and no one in the new government would question their actions, Well it did not work out that way!.

When things look the darkest for Yingluck something always happens to make thing right again, Now greed of the Millers and Exporters will come to her rescue and the farmer will be brought back to the conclusion, that "if" Yingluck and the PTP did anything wrong it was done by trying to improve the condition of Thailand's rice farmers.

The cause for right will prevail!

Cheers

Edited March 8, 2014 by kikoman

[dickyknee]

I agree with only one point you made if you repeat a falsehood often enough you would come to believe it.

Rice has been piling up since the 9 december 2013, when the government could no longer sell it, after the Ammart instigated run on the banks, on protesters doing every thing possible to prolong the farmers suffering.

But the EC is the only agency under the constitution that has the final ok on any loans to pay farmers had refused to do so thinking they had the upper hand and Yingluck would step down and no one in the new government would question their actions, Well it did not work out that way!.

When things look the darkest for Yingluck something always happens to make thing right again, Now greed of the Millers and Exporters will come to her rescue and the farmer will be brought back to the conclusion, that "if" Yingluck and the PTP did anything wrong it was done by trying to improve the condition of Thailand's rice farmers.

The cause for right will prevail!

Cheers

sorry, please repeat again. When exactly did the rice start piling up?

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[bigbamboo]

I agree with only one point you made if you repeat a falsehood often enough you would come to believe it.

Rice has been piling up since the 9 december 2013, when the government could no longer sell it, after the Ammart instigated run on the banks, on protesters doing every thing possible to prolong the farmers suffering.

But the EC is the only agency under the constitution that has the final ok on any loans to pay farmers had refused to do so thinking they had the upper hand and Yingluck would step down and no one in the new government would question their actions, Well it did not work out that way!.

When things look the darkest for Yingluck something always happens to make thing right again, Now greed of the Millers and Exporters will come to her rescue and the farmer will be brought back to the conclusion, that "if" Yingluck and the PTP did anything wrong it was done by trying to improve the condition of Thailand's rice farmers.

The cause for right will prevail!

Cheers

sorry, please repeat again. When exactly did the rice start piling up?

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

I think Kikoman lives in his own alternative universe. Some of his misinformation would have made Goebbels blush.

[The Deerhunter]

Here's an idea. Why don't they store it and wait for the price to go up?

Seriously, it is an absolute tragedy when the farmers are being underbid by someone who has been storing the farmers' own rice from a previous crop and hasn't even paid them for it yet. It is so ironic that it would be funny if it was not such a tragedy for them.

[Thai at Heart]

One must keep in mind what the topic on the thread is that prices are dropping for rice in Thailand, and it is not because of a decrease in the international price, and the forces of supply and demand, it is internal monopoly on rice middleman that is taking advantage of the Thai Rice farmers.

When it cost more to produce the rice then you can sell it for it is time to look into other crops to grow or to leave farming completely and sell you crop land to developers!

Thailand has lost its ranking on rice exporting that it will never gain again by paying lower prices to the farmer!

Cheers

A couple of points, here - I absolutely agree that the internal monopoly of rice middlemen is placing pressure on Thai rice farmers - reducing the price they can sell their rice.

But the answer to that was not for the government to take over the monopoly - the answer was and remains to open the market to let as many buyers as possible buy directly from the farmers at the farm gate.

But the PTP ignored that option, choosing instead to establish a government monopoly buying rice at a price above the market value.

The government were warned by the industry and by academics and civil groups that the rice policy would create corruption and distort the market - The government has ignored those warnings, the rice policy has created corruption and has distorted the rice market.

Worse still the policy has undermined the Thailand's rice growing industry.

The rice in store cannot be sold (witness PTP lies regarding contracts and MoU that never existed).

The rice is store is of questionable quality - both in terms of long term storage and the fact that no quality controls were placed on the rice purchase contracts.

The massive subsidy has increased production of rice of any quality, forced up land rent prices, forced up the price of fertilisers - forced up farmer production costs.

The problem is now not selling rice from the last two years, its how is Thailand going to sell rice from the years ahead?

The PTP policy has wrecked Thailand's rice growing industry - the tens of thousands of rice farmers that have not been paid for their rice from last year are only the tip of an ®iceberg - Thailand's rice growing farmers are going to bear the cost of this failed policy for years to come.

The government could enter with a cooperative to purchase 20% of the market.

[The Deerhunter]

I agree with only one point you made if you repeat a falsehood often enough you would come to believe it.

Rice has been piling up since the 9 december 2013, when the government could no longer sell it, after the Ammart instigated run on the banks, on protesters doing every thing possible to prolong the farmers suffering.

But the EC is the only agency under the constitution that has the final ok on any loans to pay farmers had refused to do so thinking they had the upper hand and Yingluck would step down and no one in the new government would question their actions, Well it did not work out that way!.

When things look the darkest for Yingluck something always happens to make thing right again, Now greed of the Millers and Exporters will come to her rescue and the farmer will be brought back to the conclusion, that "if" Yingluck and the PTP did anything wrong it was done by trying to improve the condition of Thailand's rice farmers.

The cause for right will prevail!

Cheers

sorry, please repeat again. When exactly did the rice start piling up?

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

I think Kikoman lives in his own alternative universe. Some of his misinformation would have made Goebbels blush.

I can hardly believe even Mr K said that. He usually quotes "facts" a bit more obscure or from an "un-named source." Come on Kikkers, We all know how long the rice has been piling up for and it is at least 2 years longer than 09 December 2013.

Cheers.

[The Deerhunter]

I agree with only one point you made if you repeat a falsehood often enough you would come to believe it.

Rice has been piling up since the 9 december 2013, when the government could no longer sell it, after the Ammart instigated run on the banks, on protesters doing every thing possible to prolong the farmers suffering.

But the EC is the only agency under the constitution that has the final ok on any loans to pay farmers had refused to do so thinking they had the upper hand and Yingluck would step down and no one in the new government would question their actions, Well it did not work out that way!.

When things look the darkest for Yingluck something always happens to make thing right again, Now greed of the Millers and Exporters will come to her rescue and the farmer will be brought back to the conclusion, that "if" Yingluck and the PTP did anything wrong it was done by trying to improve the condition of Thailand's rice farmers.

The cause for right will prevail!

Cheers

sorry, please repeat again. When exactly did the rice start piling up?

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

I think Kikoman lives in his own alternative universe. Some of his misinformation would have made Goebbels blush.

I can hardly believe even Mr K said that. He usually quotes "facts" a bit more obscure or from an "un-named source." Come on Kikkers, We all know how long the rice has been piling up for and it is at least 2 years longer than 09 December 2013.

Cheers.

P.S. If it was only December 2013 then they would have had the money in hand to pay the guys who came due in September & October. Get real.

[marstons]

Simple fact is thats the market price and the farmers need to start and improve and produce better quality rice at the correct humidity along with a reduction in herbicides and pesticides that has lost them business., its an expensive job for the millers etc to get it to the correct humidity level and after all they are buying expensive water. Nations around have over taken in quality and production costs and unless the Thai public is prepared to subsidise its farmers they will go out of business. British taxpayer pays on average pay about £300 per year to subsidise EU farmers, would the Thai public be prepared to do the same.

Failing that they will have to do what my grand parents did years ago up and move to an area where they can make a living.

They need bigger volume and sustained quality.

I do object that reportedly farmers are screwed by the buyers for moisture and quality and there is no redress.

I had this issue over and over again with UK farmers sending in corn high moisture content. Used to cost us a fortune to get the moisture content down with dryers blowing hot air through ducts. If its high moisture such as 18-20% then you are buying 20% water in that tonne. Expensive water. Farms have to get bigger and modernise otherwise no future for any of the small growers who are no longer able to keep up with the likes of India and Vietnam who have come from behind and over taken the Thai rice farmers. Once Thailand decided to stop selling to push up world prices it took as the trader says a click of a mouse to buy else where. For $38 they could laways buy a moisture metre and check on the farm for themselves, or chip in and buy one between them. Progress maybe not, blame culture mentality better.

When he saw Thailand’s pledge to hike up the price of rice, he says he and virtually every global trader knew how to respond. With the click of a mouse, or sometimes a quick phone call, his traders in Dubai could switch their purchases from Thailand to suppliers in India, Pakistan, Myanmar, or Vietnam. “It doesn’t take five minutes,” he says.

http://world.time.com/2013/07/12/how-thailands-botched-rice-scheme-blew-a-big-hole-in-its-economy/

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-Rice-Corn-Wheat-Grain-Moisture-Temperature-Meter-Tester-MD-7822-/131003675477

Edited March 8, 2014 by marstons

[Jay Sata]

Spot on there Marston.

Thailand's agriculture sector is stuck in the mid 19th century and the little farmer with a dozen rai is never going to be able to keep up.

Sadly Thailand is scared of westerners coming in to modernise and mechanise it's farming so you have total inefficiency and the poverty that goes with it.

[kikoman]

Just the type of response one would expect from those that realize it is the truth, The price of the rice is being manipulated not by the international rice market but the millers and exporters in Thailand.

If there is such a surplus of rice do as the Indian government does it subsidizes it grains to the tune of $14 billion dollars in 2011-2012, they have given free rice and other grains to 20 million of their poorest citizens and supplies low cost rice to another 65 million citizen that fall below the poverty level at 74 to 86% below procurement levels.

Thailand could do that also the government purchase the rice and give it to the poorest in the country and offer low price rice to all citizens of Thailand, much the same as fuel rich Venezuela sell gas in the country for pennies a gallon.

If anyone should take advantage of low prices it should be the citizens of Thailand not the millers or the exporters!

Cheers