Thai opinion: Protecting the 'little woman'

[webfact]

VENUS' VISION
Protecting the 'little woman'
Veena Thoopkrajae

BANGKOK: -- As Thailand joins the rest of the world in marking International Women's Day today, we can boast being a country with a fair share of feminists. However, whether we are actually moving toward equality for women is quite another matter.

Call me a cynic for saying this, but, with Thai feminists busy bumping heads, the battle for women's rights is making little progress. I'm not singling anyone out for blame. The battle for feminists is different from country to country, and Thailand's battleground is unique.

Here, many women's-rights activists are wasting time and energy guarding females in powerful positions, including caretaker Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra, Deputy Government Spokeswoman Sunisa Lertpakawat, Thaksin Shinawatra's former wife Pojaman na Pombejra and Taya Teepsuwan. The rights violations in question here stem from cases of perceived political injustice. But aren't these powerful women capable of taking care of themselves? Surely they have their own armies of guards among their supporters and hardly notice the efforts that rights groups make to defend them. Speaking plainly, these political "targets" have the power of choice: they know that, if they can't stand the heat, they can get out of the kitchen.

Before we veer toward the topic of equality for women, we might want to discuss the meaning of "equality" first. Is equality for all what matters, or is it fair protection for everyone in accordance with her needs? I am in favour of the latter. There are so many women in our society whose plights are crying out for the attention of rights activists. Domestic violence occurs on average every 20 seconds in Thailand. Yet meanwhile we are preoccupied with the rhetoric of political injustice. Forty-four per cent of Thai women have experienced physical or sexual violence by a partner. These are examples of basic rights violations that demand our attention if the cause of women's equality is to progress.

Violence against women and girls often makes headlines, but this is only one facet of the inequality. Look closely enough at any area of society and you realise that gender inequality is everywhere. Some cases might seem "major" or "minor", according to individual opinion, but they express inequality all the same.

And wealth or education is no protection against such injustice, which is embedded in our tradition and difficult to root out. In the matter of property rights, for instance, the law says a woman who marries a foreigner loses her right to own land. Why do we accept this obvious discrimination?

One person's minor annoyance can be a major issue for another. Many mothers wonder why women's-rights activists don't press private firms and public officials to provide separate rooms for breastfeeding, especially since the practice is heavily promoted by the government. The list goes on and on. Another item worthy of attention is protection for sex-workers, whose trade is illegal, meaning they seldom get help from law-enforcement agencies. A sex-worker who is raped and goes to the police will seldom if ever get protection or justice.

By all means join the country's feminists in waging war against inequality in everyday life, but perhaps we should place to one side the women's-rights rhetoric of the ivory tower. We should instead be led by our common sense and concern for women of all professions, status and groups. Make your voice heard - otherwise it will be a mere whisper amid the self-righteous hue and cry of politics.

Next time someone introduces herself or himself as an advocate of women's equality, try putting them to the test with a checklist of basic, everyday rights. There's a long journey ahead, but it starts with small steps.


-- The Nation 2014-03-08

[noitom]

"The list goes on and on. Another item worthy of attention is protection for sex-workers, whose trade is illegal, meaning they seldom get help from law-enforcement agencies. A sex-worker who is raped and goes to the police will seldom if ever get protection or justice."

Does the Thai press think that it's time for Thailand to reconcile the truth? That Thailand permits the illegal sex industry, trade and trafficking of women and children for sex on such a massive scale and that so many supposedly legitimate Thais make a living from? How can Thai women campaign for the legal rights of massive numbers of sex workers, some say 6 million and up, when prostitution is illegal and practiced on almost every soi where any tourists might go? Isn't this a blatant hypocrisy of Thailand? Not only tourists, but the Thai prostitution industry dwarfs foreign sex trade.

[focus27]

I think I should go back to bed.... ... as usual, the Nation misses the target.

The very first thing that is needed in Thailand is to rewrite the marriage laws. The Thai-foreigners laws are obviously xenophobic but the Thai-Thai laws are plain patriarchal. They are just property laws that allow Thai men to have one or more female mates for reproduction and fun. Whether they are big or little women, in the eyes of the law, they are just products.

[DrTuner]

Thai feminists ? Luckily that disease hasn't taken root here.

[hanuman2543]

It was the law that women are loosing their right to own land when they marry a foreigner. But 1999 they introduce the "Land Amendment Act 2542" and now women who are married to foreigners can own land under the provisions mentioned in the Land Amendment Act. Why the author of this article isn't aware of that? If the author is not able to get the facts right it is better to write nothing at all.

[marko kok prong]

"The list goes on and on. Another item worthy of attention is protection for sex-workers, whose trade is illegal, meaning they seldom get help from law-enforcement agencies. A sex-worker who is raped and goes to the police will seldom if ever get protection or justice."

Does the Thai press think that it's time for Thailand to reconcile the truth? That Thailand permits the illegal sex industry, trade and trafficking of women and children for sex on such a massive scale and that so many supposedly legitimate Thais make a living from? How can Thai women campaign for the legal rights of massive numbers of sex workers, some say 6 million and up, when prostitution is illegal and practiced on almost every soi where any tourists might go? Isn't this a blatant hypocrisy of Thailand? Not only tourists, but the Thai prostitution industry dwarfs foreign sex trade.

6 million i think that is drawing a long bow.

[Dap]

I think y'all are missing the point. Like everywhere else on this planet,

women need to be afforded the same respect we men enjoy.

It really is that simple.

Edited March 8, 2014 by Dap

[ginjag]

"The list goes on and on. Another item worthy of attention is protection for sex-workers, whose trade is illegal, meaning they seldom get help from law-enforcement agencies. A sex-worker who is raped and goes to the police will seldom if ever get protection or justice."

Does the Thai press think that it's time for Thailand to reconcile the truth? That Thailand permits the illegal sex industry, trade and trafficking of women and children for sex on such a massive scale and that so many supposedly legitimate Thais make a living from? How can Thai women campaign for the legal rights of massive numbers of sex workers, some say 6 million and up, when prostitution is illegal and practiced on almost every soi where any tourists might go? Isn't this a blatant hypocrisy of Thailand? Not only tourists, but the Thai prostitution industry dwarfs foreign sex trade.

6 million i think that is drawing a long bow.

When Half the Thai population is Issan, just take note when in these tourist areas Pattaya and the rest, ask the girl where is she from MOST will be from Issan.

Their parents are aware that they are on the game but will not speak about it, nor even care, as long as the money transfer is arriving at the mothers local post office.

Local areas from school leaving age how many are living local ??? rarely see.

This could apply to the vast numbers of young boys in Pattaya and the like from Issan.

Take away the bars etc ---Pattaya dies--and families all over Thailand will collapse. Do not forget Pattaya is only one city.

Just to add, when foreigners are to BLAME for all this bar girl boy business you have to remember Over 90 % of this business is frequented by Thai nationals-Fact

[gaazzaazz]

And wealth or education is no protection against such injustice, which is embedded in our tradition and difficult to root out. In the matter of property rights, for instance, the law says a woman who marries a foreigner loses her right to own land. Why do we accept this obvious discrimination?

Can someone please elaborate on the land ownership issue beyond what has been mentioned by hunaman

Thanks

[h90]

Thai feminists ? Luckily that disease hasn't taken root here.

The small/medium size companies we deal with have way more than 50% women as owner or manager.

And I have heard how they explain their male staff if they are unhappy with their performance.....

They don't need to have a feminist movement, they are the boss already.....

[Yunla]

If we are being honest, is a social and economic struggle, not a gender struggle.

For example Yingluck who was raised in the OP in relation to women's rights, she is extremely rich. Her money trumps her gender, her money and her family open all doors for her, and her gender is a secondary issue. A very poor woman, by contrast, doors are closed in her face because she is poor first and woman second. Obviously in a meritocracy everyone should get paid based on the quality and quantity of their work, and not on birth-status be that gender or appearance or race. But really if you are a rich woman, gender is far less of an issue as you can invest and start new companies etc. And money paves your way in life.

That is why I see meritocracy as a more worthy struggle than feminism. Everyone should get paid correctly for their work. This would lead to a reborn aspirational middle-class, people with money not just debts, and then the issue of them being male or female won't be so relevant.

Obviously Asia has had social norms of submissive women for ever, and this is different from principles of equality, as social norms change at a glacial pace over centuries and are not something you can just say "lets fix this now."

Edited March 8, 2014 by Yunla

[Seastallion]

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Very.long bow. Do the numbers. It implies one in less than three adult women are whores. A ridiculous proposition.

6 million i think that is drawing a long bow.

"The list goes on and on. Another item worthy of attention is protection for sex-workers, whose trade is illegal, meaning they seldom get help from law-enforcement agencies. A sex-worker who is raped and goes to the police will seldom if ever get protection or justice."

Does the Thai press think that it's time for Thailand to reconcile the truth? That Thailand permits the illegal sex industry, trade and trafficking of women and children for sex on such a massive scale and that so many supposedly legitimate Thais make a living from? How can Thai women campaign for the legal rights of massive numbers of sex workers, some say 6 million and up, when prostitution is illegal and practiced on almost every soi where any tourists might go? Isn't this a blatant hypocrisy of Thailand? Not only tourists, but the Thai prostitution industry dwarfs foreign sex trade.

[Mudcrab]

"The list goes on and on. Another item worthy of attention is protection for sex-workers, whose trade is illegal, meaning they seldom get help from law-enforcement agencies. A sex-worker who is raped and goes to the police will seldom if ever get protection or justice."

Does the Thai press think that it's time for Thailand to reconcile the truth? That Thailand permits the illegal sex industry, trade and trafficking of women and children for sex on such a massive scale and that so many supposedly legitimate Thais make a living from? How can Thai women campaign for the legal rights of massive numbers of sex workers, some say 6 million and up, when prostitution is illegal and practiced on almost every soi where any tourists might go? Isn't this a blatant hypocrisy of Thailand? Not only tourists, but the Thai prostitution industry dwarfs foreign sex trade.

There is no prostitution in Thailand. It's illegal.

Edited March 8, 2014 by Mudcrab

[hanuman2543]

And wealth or education is no protection against such injustice, which is embedded in our tradition and difficult to root out. In the matter of property rights, for instance, the law says a woman who marries a foreigner loses her right to own land. Why do we accept this obvious discrimination?

Can someone please elaborate on the land ownership issue beyond what has been mentioned by hunaman

Thanks

Google "Land Amendment Act 2542" and have a closer look at Sec 94 and 96. Got to the website of the Department of Land (www.dol.go.th/) and change to the english language version. For better understanding google"sin suan tua" and "Thai Civil and Commercial Code" and read about property of husband and wife ( maybe starts from Sec 1470).

[Thai at Heart]

If we are being honest, is a social and economic struggle, not a gender struggle.

For example Yingluck who was raised in the OP in relation to women's rights, she is extremely rich. Her money trumps her gender, her money and her family open all doors for her, and her gender is a secondary issue. A very poor woman, by contrast, doors are closed in her face because she is poor first and woman second. Obviously in a meritocracy everyone should get paid based on the quality and quantity of their work, and not on birth-status be that gender or appearance or race. But really if you are a rich woman, gender is far less of an issue as you can invest and start new companies etc. And money paves your way in life.

That is why I see meritocracy as a more worthy struggle than feminism. Everyone should get paid correctly for their work. This would lead to a reborn aspirational middle-class, people with money not just debts, and then the issue of them being male or female won't be so relevant.

Obviously Asia has had social norms of submissive women for ever, and this is different from principles of equality, as social norms change at a glacial pace over centuries and are not something you can just say "lets fix this now."

Her money doesn't trump her gender. She has been shooed in by her brother. Do you think successful businessmen take her seriously. The newspapers prattle on about her using her feminine wile to get her own way.

Do u think thaksin brother would have been more or less likely to have taken the job.

[kikoman]

The attacks on the PM are indicative that gender inequality is alive and well on TV and in Thailand, a great example is when Sunisa was accosted and taken off a Thai street against her will the males on tv had a field day blaming her for her attack!

Cheers

[bigbamboo]

"The list goes on and on. Another item worthy of attention is protection for sex-workers, whose trade is illegal, meaning they seldom get help from law-enforcement agencies. A sex-worker who is raped and goes to the police will seldom if ever get protection or justice."

Does the Thai press think that it's time for Thailand to reconcile the truth? That Thailand permits the illegal sex industry, trade and trafficking of women and children for sex on such a massive scale and that so many supposedly legitimate Thais make a living from? How can Thai women campaign for the legal rights of massive numbers of sex workers, some say 6 million and up, when prostitution is illegal and practiced on almost every soi where any tourists might go? Isn't this a blatant hypocrisy of Thailand? Not only tourists, but the Thai prostitution industry dwarfs foreign sex trade.

6 million i think that is drawing a long bow.

6 million! Have you been using TAT's abacus by any chance?

[speedtripler]

"The list goes on and on. Another item worthy of attention is protection for sex-workers, whose trade is illegal, meaning they seldom get help from law-enforcement agencies. A sex-worker who is raped and goes to the police will seldom if ever get protection or justice."

Does the Thai press think that it's time for Thailand to reconcile the truth? That Thailand permits the illegal sex industry, trade and trafficking of women and children for sex on such a massive scale and that so many supposedly legitimate Thais make a living from? How can Thai women campaign for the legal rights of massive numbers of sex workers, some say 6 million and up, when prostitution is illegal and practiced on almost every soi where any tourists might go? Isn't this a blatant hypocrisy of Thailand? Not only tourists, but the Thai prostitution industry dwarfs foreign sex trade.

6 million i think that is drawing a long bow.

6 million! Have you been using TAT's abacus by any chance?

while there may not be 6 million full time hookers in thailand ,im sure there plenty of women

in other jobs or students that will bend over for a few baht to help pay the rent or get a new iphone

or some new clothes/shoes etc they couldnt have afforded otherwise

including the informal part timers ,it might not be so far off the mark

[onlycw]

There needs to be real protection for victims of domestic violence. I've witnessed a frail old mother in her late 60s getting brutally beaten up by her son in his 30s. It must have taken her enormous courage - but she went to the Police.

The Police said "it's your son". A jailbird. A known Jaba user. So if victim and perp are related, then it's okay to do nothing, not even visit the guy and state "we have the incident on the record. Next time, you will go back inside" or something.

What's gonna happen to the "teacher" who tasered a 4 years old child while the boy was sleeping?!?

Why are drivers known to do a runner after an accident? Maybe it's up to the Police whether to press charges?

There must be ways to protect women and children against violence or to make perpetrators pay a high price.

[Blackmirage2013]

"The list goes on and on. Another item worthy of attention is protection for sex-workers, whose trade is illegal, meaning they seldom get help from law-enforcement agencies. A sex-worker who is raped and goes to the police will seldom if ever get protection or justice."

Does the Thai press think that it's time for Thailand to reconcile the truth? That Thailand permits the illegal sex industry, trade and trafficking of women and children for sex on such a massive scale and that so many supposedly legitimate Thais make a living from? How can Thai women campaign for the legal rights of massive numbers of sex workers, some say 6 million and up, when prostitution is illegal and practiced on almost every soi where any tourists might go? Isn't this a blatant hypocrisy of Thailand? Not only tourists, but the Thai prostitution industry dwarfs foreign sex trade.

There is no prostitution in Thailand. It's illegal.

So let's legalize prostitution here, then protect our prostitutes! Let's have "polite, warm, gracious Thai style sex".... no more exploiting Thai women!

[Blackmirage2013]

Abuse of women.... inequality... exploitation.... all terrible things...

Yet at the same time, I love gracious, kind women who behave like women. That is the nicest thing about Thailand, that women are loving, sexy, feminine.

One of the most common reasons farang men leave their farang wives is because wives become bossy, nagging, annoying and lose all their graciousness and sexuality. They become "men-like!"

So women, we love you and wish you would stay sexy and attractive and kind... we can treat you like equals and never abuse you... just don't change and become like men!!!!

[rhythmworx]

Why do these farang male journalists that work for the nation have made up Thai female names?

I've noticed this for a while. The only feminists I have heard opinions from are these male farang reporters under a thai female guise.

What's the fuc_king crack Sidney?

Maybe they are not female names?

Either way they are feminists, male or female.

Edited March 8, 2014 by rhythmworx

[Yunla]

Her money doesn't trump her gender. She has been shooed in by her brother. Do you think successful businessmen take her seriously. The newspapers prattle on about her using her feminine wile to get her own way.

Do u think thaksin brother would have been more or less likely to have taken the job.

Yes I did say her family also opened doors for her. My point was that in capitalism, money is the equaliser - be that for gender, race or disability etc. For example Yingluck can jet around the world staying at 5 Star hotels, and in no hotel do they say "you're a woman - get out!" they bow to her and do her bidding because she is rich first, woman second. Yingluck has clothes and accessories that are worth more than my total net value including property. This is a luxury lifestyle which makes her "rich first" and "woman second." If she were poor she would be seeking a job as a humble maid in those hotels, not living in the penthouse suite.

Massive economic inequality is the real and growing gap in the 21st century, not gender inequality. Although as I said in my first post, this region has a longstanding dominant male / submissive female culture, which again as I mentioned, is not something you can legislate away - it takes centuries to gradually erode those deep rooted cultural norms. But if you are a rich woman, you can start businesses and be boss, invest etc. So you being a woman does not leave you excluded from enterprise or affluence. But if you are a poor woman you get the double whammy of economic inequality and gender inequality. My point is that addressing the former is more of a pressing concern than the latter. Since absolute poverty and lack of social mobility affects both men and women, working towards greater meritocracy for all people, would fix a lot more problems than just working for women's rights alone.

Edited March 8, 2014 by Yunla

[Thai at Heart]

Her money doesn't trump her gender. She has been shooed in by her brother. Do you think successful businessmen take her seriously. The newspapers prattle on about her using her feminine wile to get her own way.

Do u think thaksin brother would have been more or less likely to have taken the job.

Yes I did say her family also opened doors for her. My point was that in capitalism, money is the equaliser - be that for gender, race or disability etc. For example Yingluck can jet around the world staying at 5 Star hotels, and in no hotel do they say "you're a woman - get out!" they bow to her and do her bidding because she is rich first, woman second. Yingluck has clothes and accessories that are worth more than my total net value including property. This is a luxury lifestyle which makes her "rich first" and "woman second." If she were poor she would be seeking a job as a humble maid in those hotels, not living in the penthouse suite.

Massive economic inequality is the real and growing gap in the 21st century, not gender inequality. Although as I said in my first post, this region has a longstanding dominant male / submissive female culture, which again as I mentioned, is not something you can legislate away - it takes centuries to gradually erode those deep rooted cultural norms. But if you are a rich woman, you can start businesses and be boss, invest etc. So you being a woman does not leave you excluded from enterprise or affluence. But if you are a poor woman you get the double whammy of economic inequality and gender inequality. My point is that addressing the former is more of a pressing concern than the latter. Since absolute poverty and lack of social mobility affects both men and women, working towards greater meritocracy for all people, would fix a lot more problems than just working for women's rights alone.

She gets treated the same way that a rich bloke does. In fact, for her abilities she is probably grossly over respected.

I am not sure how she gets treated.among wealthy thais, but I am sure she is largely universally sneered at. Partly out of jealousy, but probably because everyone pretty much knows she has been promoted way beyond her ability.

[rubl]

""Protection the little female""

Surely the Thai femanist movement will hand Ms. Yingluck a price. She has done so much to improve the position of women and the mindset of men. In the topic on the 'democract guards' we had

"Applicant Lun Biakratoke said he felt sorry for Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra enduring tension from political opponents.""

[fatdrunkandstupid]

"The list goes on and on. Another item worthy of attention is protection for sex-workers, whose trade is illegal, meaning they seldom get help from law-enforcement agencies. A sex-worker who is raped and goes to the police will seldom if ever get protection or justice."

Does the Thai press think that it's time for Thailand to reconcile the truth? That Thailand permits the illegal sex industry, trade and trafficking of women and children for sex on such a massive scale and that so many supposedly legitimate Thais make a living from? How can Thai women campaign for the legal rights of massive numbers of sex workers, some say 6 million and up, when prostitution is illegal and practiced on almost every soi where any tourists might go? Isn't this a blatant hypocrisy of Thailand? Not only tourists, but the Thai prostitution industry dwarfs foreign sex trade.

6 million i think that is drawing a long bow.

6 million! Have you been using TAT's abacus by any chance?

while there may not be 6 million full time hookers in thailand ,im sure there plenty of women

in other jobs or students that will bend over for a few baht to help pay the rent or get a new iphone

or some new clothes/shoes etc they couldnt have afforded otherwise

including the informal part timers ,it might not be so far off the mark

In my mind a whore is someone that accepts any form of gratuity for in return for sex.

I would therefore argue that ALL of the female population in any country may be viewed as a sex worker.

[Thai at Heart]

She is a model for positive discrimination.

[tomloughney]

I have yet to find any group, country, organization, business, neighborhood that does not discriminate against somebody/thing. Central Thai vs Issan, light skin (of nearly any country) vs dark, fat vs skinny, rich vs poor, tall vs short, short vs tall, intelligent vs stupid.

Tall people are generally more successful than short people. Etc, etc.....

So we pick Black vs white, Mexican vs Cuban, Vietnamese vs Dutch...... And then go on and on and on as if we have a chance in hell of stopping what has been set into our DNA.

Many of our feelings are from biology. We/nature wants to mate/live with an improvement of where we currently are in development.

Alpha Males and Stunning females dominate reproduction in nature, yet we don't want to do that as humans.... ?

Lots of people/animals are not equal, some are better breeding stock/workhorses/spouses than others but we want all to be the same.

We have idiots in both genders and wonderful people/animals as well.

Using very narrow definitions of discrimination one can find horrific cases to display for all to see.

I have seen women given the chance to "break" the glass ceiling decline and settle for other priorities in life. Yet we can cite this "glass" ceiling and claim that women can't break it because men are more dominate and stronger than women. I would suspect that if women were stronger then men would have the "glass" ceiling controlled by women.

Life has many parts, and we can not have all parts equally. I spent a lot of time in school and did not learn how to surf. I suppose I was discriminated against by the system preventing me from surfing, and if I could sue somebody I would. For back wages.......

[JamesDean3]

Her money doesn't trump her gender. She has been shooed in by her brother. Do you think successful businessmen take her seriously. The newspapers prattle on about her using her feminine wile to get her own way.

Do u think thaksin brother would have been more or less likely to have taken the job.

Yes I did say her family also opened doors for her. My point was that in capitalism, money is the equaliser - be that for gender, race or disability etc. For example Yingluck can jet around the world staying at 5 Star hotels, and in no hotel do they say "you're a woman - get out!" they bow to her and do her bidding because she is rich first, woman second. Yingluck has clothes and accessories that are worth more than my total net value including property. This is a luxury lifestyle which makes her "rich first" and "woman second." If she were poor she would be seeking a job as a humble maid in those hotels, not living in the penthouse suite.

Massive economic inequality is the real and growing gap in the 21st century, not gender inequality. Although as I said in my first post, this region has a longstanding dominant male / submissive female culture, which again as I mentioned, is not something you can legislate away - it takes centuries to gradually erode those deep rooted cultural norms. But if you are a rich woman, you can start businesses and be boss, invest etc. So you being a woman does not leave you excluded from enterprise or affluence. But if you are a poor woman you get the double whammy of economic inequality and gender inequality. My point is that addressing the former is more of a pressing concern than the latter. Since absolute poverty and lack of social mobility affects both men and women, working towards greater meritocracy for all people, would fix a lot more problems than just working for women's rights alone.

You are absolutely rught Yunla.