Missing Malaysia Airlines jet carrying 239 triggers Southeast Asia search

[F4UCorsair]

Though it seems like it has to be a different data mechanism as ACARS was shut down early in this flight.

Why a different "data mechanism" (whatever that is)?

I said "... making it RAT powered when the electrical supply is interrupted".

I.e. if the power supply is interrupted (e.g. by manual intervention), the RAT triggers irreversibly and powers ACARS from that point onwards.

I believe that some airlines already have circuits for CVR/ACARS, etc., that can't be interrupted by the crew, i.e., circuit breakers pulled. It's part of the myriad variations on the standard design that airlines can mandate in their orders.

They have thermal circuitry so that if there is an electrical fire, the power is interrupted without pilot intervention.

[JXXXL]

Conspiracy theory #264

Pilot was distraught by his witnessing his friend being convicted unfairly - the day before. He made a call to high-up official, or maybe head of airport, and said something like, "get a pardon for Anwar, or I crash this plane."

Response: "I can't get a pardon. That's beyond my powers. He was convicted by a court of law.

Pilot: "I'm serious."

Response: "Don't talk such crap about crashing your plane. You're an experienced pilot. Are you drunk? Don't be an ass. I should report you for saying such a stupid thing, but I won't."

One of the most plausible 'conspiracy theories' I have read.

Ditto, and would explain why the Malaysians are covering this up at all costs.

[casualposter]

Conspiracy theory #264

Pilot was distraught by his witnessing his friend being convicted unfairly - the day before. He made a call to high-up official, or maybe head of airport, and said something like, "get a pardon for Anwar, or I crash this plane."

Response: "I can't get a pardon. That's beyond my powers. He was convicted by a court of law.

Pilot: "I'm serious."

Response: "Don't talk such crap about crashing your plane. You're an experienced pilot. Are you drunk? Don't be an ass. I should report you for saying such a stupid thing, but I won't."

One of the most plausible 'conspiracy theories' I have read.

Ditto, and would explain why the Malaysians are covering this up at all costs.

Please ... you guys can't be serious.

[casualposter]

If pilot (Captain) suicide is a possibility, that may well be the link, his 'friendship' with Anwar Ibrahim may have put him in the firing line for future charges? I speculated on that earlier.

Suicide IS a possibility. There's no if.

[tigermonkey]

ACARS already sends out a range of useful data, just adding a GPS loc and making it RAT powered when the electrical supply is interrupted would be a relatively simple change.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I agree that "adding a GPS loc" to ACARS would be viable but I am having trouble wrapping my head around ^{"making it RAT powered when the electrical supply is interrupted". Are you saying that if power is interrupted either manually or by failure, etc when the a/c is at FL350 under autopilot, that the RAT should be auto-deployed ? This would necessitate massive changes to both the RAT and other control systems -- or would ACARS have its own RAT ?}

Edited April 13, 2014 by tigermonkey

[ZigZagMan]

Conspiracy theory #264

Pilot was distraught by his witnessing his friend being convicted unfairly - the day before. He made a call to high-up official, or maybe head of airport, and said something like, "get a pardon for Anwar, or I crash this plane."

Response: "I can't get a pardon. That's beyond my powers. He was convicted by a court of law.

Pilot: "I'm serious."

Response: "Don't talk such crap about crashing your plane. You're an experienced pilot. Are you drunk? Don't be an ass. I should report you for saying such a stupid thing, but I won't."

One of the most plausible 'conspiracy theories' I have read.

Ditto, and would explain why the Malaysians are covering this up at all costs.

Please ... you guys can't be serious.

Some nutters are still convinced the moon landings were a hoax.

[wprime]

Conspiracy theory #264

Pilot was distraught by his witnessing his friend being convicted unfairly - the day before. He made a call to high-up official, or maybe head of airport, and said something like, "get a pardon for Anwar, or I crash this plane."

Response: "I can't get a pardon. That's beyond my powers. He was convicted by a court of law.

Pilot: "I'm serious."

Response: "Don't talk such crap about crashing your plane. You're an experienced pilot. Are you drunk? Don't be an ass. I should report you for saying such a stupid thing, but I won't."

One of the most plausible 'conspiracy theories' I have read.

Ditto, and would explain why the Malaysians are covering this up at all costs.

They'd want to cover it up either way - if they can keep the black box from being found then it becomes very difficult for them to become liable for any compensation beyond that which is defined by the Montreal convention.

[Chicog]

ACARS already sends out a range of useful data, just adding a GPS loc and making it RAT powered when the electrical supply is interrupted would be a relatively simple change.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I agree that "adding a GPS loc" to ACARS would be viable but I am having trouble wrapping my head around ^{"making it RAT powered when the electrical supply is interrupted". Are you saying that if power is interrupted either manually or by failure, etc when the a/c is at FL350 under autopilot, that the RAT should be auto-deployed ? This would necessitate massive changes to both the RAT and other control systems -- or would ACARS have its own RAT ?}

Massive? Why? The wiring is already there.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[tigermonkey]

ACARS already sends out a range of useful data, just adding a GPS loc and making it RAT powered when the electrical supply is interrupted would be a relatively simple change.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I agree that "adding a GPS loc" to ACARS would be viable but I am having trouble wrapping my head around ^{"making it RAT powered when the electrical supply is interrupted". Are you saying that if power is interrupted either manually or by failure, etc when the a/c is at FL350 under autopilot, that the RAT should be auto-deployed ? This would necessitate massive changes to both the RAT and other control systems -- or would ACARS have its own RAT ?}

Massive? Why? The wiring is already there.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The existing RAT is designed to be used only after the engine generators and, in many cases, the APU are unable to supply minimal power needs of the aircraft. The RAT only provides power and hydraulics to minimum systems to facilitate the opportunity to bring the a/c safely to the ground. Most circuitry is not designed for the possibility of more than one simultaneous power source. Similarly, hydraulic systems are not designed to employ two competing sources of hydraulic pressure. I am no engineer, but I can not envision these systems simultaneously functioning properly, without considerable redesign. Perhaps an aircraft systems engineer might be able to comment better on this.

Edited April 13, 2014 by tigermonkey

[RubbaJohnny]

All the evidence to date points to human intervention with the goal being to evade detection and ultimate resting place.

Mechanical failure is grasping at straws.

It would have dropped somewhere easier to find. And there'd be lots of debris.

Yes its the twists and turns that make this case so odd.

1 The twists and turns in MH reports have not helped

2 Some reports over Klang others Penang and yet others S Thailand,Maldives and the one often overlooked witness who talked about the plane over the Amndaman Islands ,notably before she had heard of the loss.She was a Malay lady returning from KSA

Many links and I mentioned here

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/03/21/woman-convinced-she-saw-the-missing-malaysian-plane-while-flying-over-the-indian-ocean/

and here ,but other links which were frequent a fortnight ago have "disappeared from alexa ratings"

http://www.ibtimes.co.in/articles/544469/20140322/woman-saw-missing-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370.htm

With so little ffirm evidence the fact that the plane manoeuvred seems to suggest it was not the fatal ,bomb,explosion scenario as would not have vcontinued for hours.

If crew or accomplice ,allowed into cockpit by crew had planned something you would think they would be aware INMARSAT could track.Amateurs who knows,my bedtime reading isn't how to down a plane more quaff better wine and keep my dear wife happy.

Once control differed from normal the many interesting scenarios emerge.to my mind these are the possibilities

1 Takenover remotely could be anywhere in ocean or on land,It is not that hard to hide a plane esp if you are prepared to dismantle on groundor destroy.If wish to sell,bargain re-use a hangar size hole,there are plenty

2 On board hostile takeover,perhpas during this conflict the plane ditched later due to inability to fly or subsequent struggle to overcome the hijaclkers as alleged fate of United 93 on 9/11

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_93

3 The hijackers sucessfully flew somewhere.Various estimates of fuel levels confuse range but certainly seemed to have enough to reach India Sri Lanka where easily spotted,OutbackOZ, Lao,,Somali,Pakistan,Tibet,Kazakstan etc less so or ditch not in Indian Ocean but Pacific et

4 The hijackers ditched

5 The hijackers had a motive beyond suicide,theft of goods and aircraft is abig score as pure robbery,Ransom passengers,Political motives take your pick,Uighur ,Iranian,Maly ,China even has plenty of malcontants.

6 the plane was to be a 9/11 type weapon used against eg Malay,Thai <Chinese govt or 5 eyes base at Dago GArcia,Tamil Rohinghya seperatists the list is endless.

7 Finally while I give no credence there are plenty of folks and stuff re the HAARP,UFO,Thule Alien abduction wave who I feel are themselves in need of help and are victims of ltd scientific knowledge combined with cheap access to nonsense online.

Have I missed anything?Wishing you all a safe and enjoyabe Songkran ,I'm hunkering down with a squaw and supplies until "normal' service or NSFW Normal Simaese Forward Wishing

Like all of us I hope they find something the sooner the better for the relatives.

[Chicog]

ACARS already sends out a range of useful data, just adding a GPS loc and making it RAT powered when the electrical supply is interrupted would be a relatively simple change.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I agree that "adding a GPS loc" to ACARS would be viable but I am having trouble wrapping my head around ^{"making it RAT powered when the electrical supply is interrupted". Are you saying that if power is interrupted either manually or by failure, etc when the a/c is at FL350 under autopilot, that the RAT should be auto-deployed ? This would necessitate massive changes to both the RAT and other control systems -- or would ACARS have its own RAT ?}

Massive? Why? The wiring is already there.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The existing RAT is designed to be used only after the engine generators and, in many cases, the APU are unable to supply minimal power needs of the aircraft. The RAT only provides power and hydraulics to minimum systems to facilitate the opportunity to bring the a/c safely to the ground. Most circuitry is not designed for the possibility of more than one simultaneous power source. Similarly, hydraulic systems are not designed to employ two competing sources of hydraulic pressure. I am no engineer, but I can not envision these systems simultaneously functioning properly, without considerable redesign. Perhaps an aircraft systems engineer might be able to comment better on this.

That is all flannel, admit it. If the RAT doesn't power ACARS already, it would be a minimal change and not a huge drain to ping a GPS loc (assuming loss of electrics to other reporting systems).

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Tywais]

That is all flannel, admit it. If the RAT doesn't power ACARS already, it would be a minimal change and not a huge drain to ping a GPS loc (assuming loss of electrics to other reporting systems).

You make it seem like you just patch a couple of wires in and good to go. Ever seen the wiring harnesses of a commercial airliner? This is a non-trivial modification.

[Chicog]

That is all flannel, admit it. If the RAT doesn't power ACARS already, it would be a minimal change and not a huge drain to ping a GPS loc (assuming loss of electrics to other reporting systems).

You make it seem like you just patch a couple of wires in and good to go. Ever seen the wiring harnesses of a commercial airliner? This is a non-trivial modification.

You take a look at a picture of a load of wires and just assume it's non-trivial.

Given that ACARS, the RAT and the onboard computer are all interconnected, I'd suggest it would be easier than you think.

And certainly worth looking at, before being preemptively discarded based on blind assumptions from looking at a picture.

[Tywais]

That is all flannel, admit it. If the RAT doesn't power ACARS already, it would be a minimal change and not a huge drain to ping a GPS loc (assuming loss of electrics to other reporting systems).

You make it seem like you just patch a couple of wires in and good to go. Ever seen the wiring harnesses of a commercial airliner? This is a non-trivial modification.

You take a look at a picture of a load of wires and just assume it's non-trivial.

Given that ACARS, the RAT and the onboard computer are all interconnected, I'd suggest it would be easier than you think.

And certainly worth looking at, before being preemptively discarded based on blind assumptions from looking at a picture.

Being an electronic/electrical engineer and having worked with very complex systems with wiring harnesses similar to that. Yea, non-trivial as I stated.

[tigermonkey]

An interesting brief interview with he Vice-President of Inmarsat from YouTube in which he states the addition of a "locator" could be added into their system for about $1 per hour per plane, with a frequency of every 15 minutes. I would presume that this would be added to the ping/response package which was used to trace MH370 to the South Indian Ocean. Adding it to ACARs would be of little effect since ACARS can be disabled.

It at least shows that people are serching for economic and viable solutions to the a/c tracking problem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=eCAle7_TEns

Edited April 13, 2014 by tigermonkey

[ZigZagMan]

OK, How about this.

Hijacking with a plan to ram the twin towers in KL, but the dumbshit terrorist gets lost, runs out of fuel.

[Chicog]

An interesting brief interview with he Vice-President of Inmarsat from YouTube in which he states the addition of a "locator" could be added into their system for about $1 per hour per plane, with a frequency of every 15 minutes. I would presume that this would be added to the ping/response package which was used to trace MH370 to the South Indian Ocean. Adding it to ACARs would be of little effect since ACARS can be disabled.

It at least shows that people are serching for economic and viable solutions to the a/c tracking problem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=eCAle7_TEns

They said this very early on, would cost $10 a flight on average, adding, what, cents to the price of a ticket?

But it got jumped all over by the bean counters of course.

[tigermonkey]

An interesting brief interview with he Vice-President of Inmarsat from YouTube in which he states the addition of a "locator" could be added into their system for about $1 per hour per plane, with a frequency of every 15 minutes. I would presume that this would be added to the ping/response package which was used to trace MH370 to the South Indian Ocean. Adding it to ACARs would be of little effect since ACARS can be disabled.

It at least shows that people are serching for economic and viable solutions to the a/c tracking problem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=eCAle7_TEns

They said this very early on, would cost $10 a flight on average, adding, what, cents to the price of a ticket?

But it got jumped all over by the bean counters of course.

AFAIK this is a new proposal for an every 15 minute ping specifically for a/c tracking. The $10 per flight subscription, which as you pointed out the bean counters rejected, is for ACARS reporting via SATCOM rather than by VHF.

[Chicog]

Being an electronic/electrical engineer and having worked with very complex systems with wiring harnesses similar to that. Yea, non-trivial as I stated.

Well then being an electronic/electrical engineer, you would understand that they have things like wiring diagrams and simulators...

Would it be that difficult for Boeing's team of engineers to do a feasibility study?

Of course not, and you know it. Irrespective of your credentials, you are still making assumptions.

And also there is another alternative power supply available:

The 777 also incorporates a second power generation system, called the Backup System. This is a 25 kVA system intended to support essential services in the unlikely event of loss of all main alternators. A variable speed direct drive alternator was selected for this system to minimize the size of the engine installation. There is one backup alternator per engine directly driven from the engine gearbox at approximately 14,000 to 28,000 rpm. The output power of this alternator, at a frequency of 933 Hz to 1867 Hz, is converted to a constant 400 Hz by an electronic converter in the fuselage. Also incorporated within this machine are two permanent magnet alternators which are used as isolated independent supplies for the electronic flight controls system.

Would it really be that difficult to have the power supply from this to the ACARS isolated so that the pilots can't touch it?

And let's face it, if that goes down the plane is probably already heading earthwards...

Added:

For each of its commercial jet transport programs Boeing has assembled a test rig of the complete electrical power generation system using actual aircraft equipment. Testing is conducted for system development, FAA certification and service readiness. The types of testing include (1) all combinations of power transfers between sources, (2) voltage regulation under various loading, (3) the response to various faults and failures to verify the functioning of system protective functions, and (4) system indication in the flight deck and maintenance indications. Testing for the 777 was done in the newest Boeing test facility, the Integrated Aircraft Systems Laboratory (IASL) in Seattle. The larger generators of the Boeing 777 required new higher capacity drive stands. This laboratory has six drive stands, each with a capacity of 800 horsepower (1500 horsepower peak), three of which were in use by the 777 program.

I've found the bloke who designed it all, I wonder if he's taking emails?

Carl Tenning

Abstract The electric power system chosen for the Boeing 777 is an example of the advances seen in response to market demands for superior performance and reliability. The main electric system includes two engine-driven integrated drive generators, a generator driven by the auxiliary power unit, three generator control units, and a bus power control unit. A backup electric system independent of the main system provides the redundancy of electrical sources equivalent to a three-engine airplane, considering the auxiliary power unit inoperative. Both systems are automated to minimize crew workload. The highly automated features of the 777 aircraft are enhanced by the equally sophisticated control units of the electrical power system. The state-of-the-art, microprocessor-based control units use a high-level software language to provide control and protection for the system, along with an elaborate built-in-test (BIT) capability. Each control unit has two-way communication through a newly developed ARINC 629 communication bus.

Edited April 13, 2014 by Chicog

[catterwell]

Inmarsat's IsatPhone 2 provides a talk time of 8 hours. It works anywhere on the planet except polar regions. Buy one and modify it to autosend SMS to mum with GPS position and time every 15 minutes. Use only on flights; not when bar hopping. If wake up, send, and shut down time is as much as 5 minutes (for the phone), it'll go for 96 hours. Chuck it into the overhead luggage compartment when flying. If your flight goes AWOL, mum's the word. Details, except on modification, on Inmarsat's website.

Finding a needle in a haystack is easy. Shoo away camel and close barn door after the camel's bolted. Grasp at straws, one by one, and check each for needle before passing through window to interested horse or camel. Be patient and systematic and, before you've reached the last straw, you'll have found the needle.

The search in the Indian Ocean is harder. It's bigger and keep's moving.

Watching the ship movements in the search areas through www.marinetraffic.com/en/ , it doesn't look as though they've got any solid leads.

There are no straws to grasp, just possible hints of pings and echoes.

[davidstipek]

ACARS already sends out a range of useful data, just adding a GPS loc and making it RAT powered when the electrical supply is interrupted would be a relatively simple change.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I agree that "adding a GPS loc" to ACARS would be viable but I am having trouble wrapping my head around ^{"making it RAT powered when the electrical supply is interrupted". Are you saying that if power is interrupted either manually or by failure, etc when the a/c is at FL350 under autopilot, that the RAT should be auto-deployed ? This would necessitate massive changes to both the RAT and other control systems -- or would ACARS have its own RAT ?}

Massive? Why? The wiring is already there.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The existing RAT is designed to be used only after the engine generators and, in many cases, the APU are unable to supply minimal power needs of the aircraft. The RAT only provides power and hydraulics to minimum systems to facilitate the opportunity to bring the a/c safely to the ground. Most circuitry is not designed for the possibility of more than one simultaneous power source. Similarly, hydraulic systems are not designed to employ two competing sources of hydraulic pressure. I am no engineer, but I can not envision these systems simultaneously functioning properly, without considerable redesign. Perhaps an aircraft systems engineer might be able to comment better on this.

To add RAT to system would only need either a single pole (or double depending on voltage) relay switch (1-2 set normally closed 1-2 sets normally open contacts..) would be made to power relay for normal operation, power off would automaticly energize Rat when relay powered off...easy! The rest of the wiring is already there!! Edited April 13, 2014 by davidstipek

[Tywais]

I removed a post commenting on moderation. If you have questions you can PM a moderator. Not even sure the post was regarding this topic as there mostly have been duplicates removed or profanity or OTT conspiracy theories or just off topic in the last 3 days. Explanation by moderator follows the removals also.

[boomerangutang]

Conspiracy theory #264

Pilot was distraught by his witnessing his friend being convicted unfairly - the day before. He made a call to high-up official, or maybe head of airport, and said something like, "get a pardon for Anwar, or I crash this plane."

Response: "I can't get a pardon. That's beyond my powers. He was convicted by a court of law.

Pilot: "I'm serious."

Response: "Don't talk such crap about crashing your plane. You're an experienced pilot. Are you drunk? Don't be an ass. I should report you for saying such a stupid thing, but I won't."

One of the most plausible 'conspiracy theories' I have read.

Ditto, and would explain why the Malaysians are covering this up at all costs.

Please ... you guys can't be serious.

Speaking for myself, ....serious as a crashing plane full of passengers and crew.

Let me clarify that: serious, in terms of plausibility. No one yet knows what actually happened, so everything mentioned on this thread, re; what happened, is speculation.

We have, however, been fed some interesting data, including the fact that no Mayday or distress calls were sent out, and that monitoring systems were manually turned off just before the plane reversed its heading.

Edited April 13, 2014 by boomerangutang

[tigermonkey]

I agree that "adding a GPS loc" to ACARS would be viable but I am having trouble wrapping my head around ^{"making it RAT powered when the electrical supply is interrupted". Are you saying that if power is interrupted either manually or by failure, etc when the a/c is at FL350 under autopilot, that the RAT should be auto-deployed ? This would necessitate massive changes to both the RAT and other control systems -- or would ACARS have its own RAT ?}

Massive? Why? The wiring is already there.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The existing RAT is designed to be used only after the engine generators and, in many cases, the APU are unable to supply minimal power needs of the aircraft. The RAT only provides power and hydraulics to minimum systems to facilitate the opportunity to bring the a/c safely to the ground. Most circuitry is not designed for the possibility of more than one simultaneous power source. Similarly, hydraulic systems are not designed to employ two competing sources of hydraulic pressure. I am no engineer, but I can not envision these systems simultaneously functioning properly, without considerable redesign. Perhaps an aircraft systems engineer might be able to comment better on this.

To add RAT to system would only need either a single pole (or double depending on voltage) relay switch (1-2 set normally closed 1-2 sets normally open contacts..) would be made to power relay for normal operation, power off would automaticly energize Rat when relay powered off...easy! The rest of the wiring is already there!!

Not trying to be picky but by "energize RAT" do you mean deploy/ activate RAT? You do realize at this poInt that you are also activating 'last resort' power to a few essential systems and hydraulics - can you tell me how this one relay will isolate the other RAT electrical supplies from the from all main systems ( which are presumably still energized by the generators), while at the same time allowing it to allow these other RAT electrical supplies to function in the event the main generators, secondary generators (if any) and APU fail ? I am no engineer , so I do not understand.

[Chicog]

An interesting brief interview with he Vice-President of Inmarsat from YouTube in which he states the addition of a "locator" could be added into their system for about $1 per hour per plane, with a frequency of every 15 minutes. I would presume that this would be added to the ping/response package which was used to trace MH370 to the South Indian Ocean. Adding it to ACARs would be of little effect since ACARS can be disabled.

It at least shows that people are serching for economic and viable solutions to the a/c tracking problem.

They said this very early on, would cost $10 a flight on average, adding, what, cents to the price of a ticket?

But it got jumped all over by the bean counters of course.

AFAIK this is a new proposal for an every 15 minute ping specifically for a/c tracking. The $10 per flight subscription, which as you pointed out the bean counters rejected, is for ACARS reporting via SATCOM rather than by VHF.

No, it was GPS reporting, from an Inmarsat spokesman on Sky News early on.

Edited April 14, 2014 by Scott

[boomerangutang]

Too many acronyms.

[F430murci]

An interesting brief interview with he Vice-President of Inmarsat from YouTube in which he states the addition of a "locator" could be added into their system for about $1 per hour per plane, with a frequency of every 15 minutes. I would presume that this would be added to the ping/response package which was used to trace MH370 to the South Indian Ocean. Adding it to ACARs would be of little effect since ACARS can be disabled.

It at least shows that people are serching for economic and viable solutions to the a/c tracking problem.

They said this very early on, would cost $10 a flight on average, adding, what, cents to the price of a ticket?

But it got jumped all over by the bean counters of course.

AFAIK this is a new proposal for an every 15 minute ping specifically for a/c tracking. The $10 per flight subscription, which as you pointed out the bean counters rejected, is for ACARS reporting via SATCOM rather than by VHF.

No, it was GPS reporting, from an Inmarsat spokesman on Sky News early on.

Cool, start launching satellites or setting up a grid of buoys.

Back then were mixing various concepts to prove a point which is perhaps easy to do with zero background knowledge in an area and reliance solely upon reading stuff off the net to become "educated."

You stated that MAS cheaply passed up the $10 per flight Immasurat GPS tracking option which could have told them exactly where 370 was at all times by GPS (well initially you said the $10 option for live data recorder feed, but shifted gears).

The company's $10 per flight quote was a way to make the huge costs of developing the necessry infrastructure to have such a system sound affordable. This also reflects, contrary to your earlier statement, that Immasurat did not have infrastructure in place and system operational when 370 disappeared.

GPS plane tracking is a bit more complex than your car's GPS bouncing off cell phone towers. I believe they are working toward having this type of tracking for aircraft, but projected dates are 2018 or mandated by FAA in 2020. System perhaps easier and quicker for smaller regional carriers to implement than large International carriers going over the polar regions and wide ocean bodies.

I cannot recall exactly about the dates for online and FAA mandates, but I do believe your early criticism that MAS passed up an existing cheap $10 GPS tracking option a available for 370 was not entirely accurately and more confusing Internet lore.

[Chicog]

You can believe what you like but you're confusing two discrete reports.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[3NUMBAS]

An interesting brief interview with he Vice-President of Inmarsat from YouTube in which he states the addition of a "locator" could be added into their system for about $1 per hour per plane, with a frequency of every 15 minutes. I would presume that this would be added to the ping/response package which was used to trace MH370 to the South Indian Ocean. Adding it to ACARs would be of little effect since ACARS can be disabled.

It at least shows that people are serching for economic and viable solutions to the a/c tracking problem.

They said this very early on, would cost $10 a flight on average, adding, what, cents to the price of a ticket?

But it got jumped all over by the bean counters of course.

AFAIK this is a new proposal for an every 15 minute ping specifically for a/c tracking. The $10 per flight subscription, which as you pointed out the bean counters rejected, is for ACARS reporting via SATCOM rather than by VHF.

inmarsat already have the bolton GPS service but at under $20 malaysia airlines rejected it ,the equipment is already on board

[F430murci]

You can believe what you like but you're confusing two discrete reports.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

"Discreet reports." Haha, I am obviously not important enough to be on the cc list of these discreet reports. Glad someone who is is willing to post the discrete information on Thai Visa.