Missing Malaysia Airlines jet carrying 239 triggers Southeast Asia search

[laolover88]

Interesting to me that professional pilots have no clue either.

Does Boeing or anyone else think a 777 could 'disintegrate' at 30000+ feet? (Without a bit of help?)

If it is on the ground on a landing strip?? There cannot be an infinite number of possibilities,

military or civilian can there? In the ocean is a different matter. If it is down on land I should think the

only place I can think of it might not be spotted is Kalimantan.

Plane might be in Tianjin?

Somebody knows, I fear

Edited March 10, 2014 by laolover88

[steve73]

What if the plane never crashed? Turned off its transponder, dumped fuel and landed?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Then it would have been detected by radar or, if flying below radar levels, observed by people on the ground.

Plenty of area it wouldn't get spotted by poeple on the ground, or it could have headed eastward toward Philipines..

Then it would be a needle in a haystack.

take a look at post #1337 by onetrack on the ppru site, at almost exactly the same time as I posted...!

[speedtripler]

very strange indeed

on my phone with google earth i can see my car and motorbikes parked outside the house

Not live you can't.

On Google Earth I can see a tree in my garden that does not exist.

i know the image on google of my house its not in real time ,but i dont have sophisticated military technology and space satellites at my disposal like usa and china does

dont forget military tech will be decades ahead of anything civilians have for entertainment on their phones

[p_brownstone]

The oil slick is not from the plane!

http://www.thestar.com.my/News/Nation/2014/03/10/Missing-MH370-oil-slick-not-from-plane/

The last two paragraphs of this story, that of the eyewitness account makes me feel sick to the stomach. He may have witness an act of extreme cunning, the likes of which are rarely,if ever seen. Highly unlikely but image what a group of terrorists could do with a Boeing 777 that has been in their possession for a period of time long enough so as to ready it for an attack.

"Scientific" evidence collected and displayed to Worldwide Media ............ in a Coke Bottle?!!!?

And people on TV mock Thai Police procedure?

Patrick

[mania]

very strange indeed

on my phone with google earth i can see my car and motorbikes parked outside the house

Not live you can't.

On Google Earth I can see a tree in my garden that does not exist.

Well to be fair what is available to us mere mortals is probably dated by 10 years compared

to what the higher powers have in use.

[Tywais]

Interesting to me that professional pilots have no clue either.

Does Boeing or anyone else think a 777 could 'disintegrate' at 30000+ feet? (Without a bit of help?)

I was looking up the Pan Am Lockerbie incident that was downed by a bomb. It said that when it was being tracked on radar that it went silent (radios) and the single radar blip turned into 5 radar return signals before disappearing. So even with that massive in air destruction the large pieces were still detectable as it went down.

[laolover88]

take a look at post #1337 by onetrack on the ppru site, at almost exactly the same time as I posted...!

But why would it been headed east rather than towards Hong Kong? On an irreversible autopilot?

[mania]

2: it went down and the captain landed it in one piece ,in which case he could glide for 20 min and presumably make an SOS call

nothing here explains why the transponders are not sending a signal 200-300km out and in 50 odd metres of water ,thats weird

If it had catastrophic failure at altitude but did not break up

Say even an aileron flap loose it is not able to glide even dead stick.

If it snap rolled into a spin..flat or otherwise, none is going to

be able to lift their hand from their laps much less make any SOS calls.

But as you say the lack of a signal is probably most disturbing in all of this.

But then again governments often feed us weak stories to believe when for what ever reason they deem

fit we are not to have the truth.

Edited March 10, 2014 by mania

[speedtripler]

Interesting to me that professional pilots have no clue either.

Does Boeing or anyone else think a 777 could 'disintegrate' at 30000+ feet? (Without a bit of help?)

I was looking up the Pan Am Lockerbie incident that was downed by a bomb. It said that when it was being tracked on radar that it went silent (radios) and the single radar blip turned into 5 radar return signals before disappearing. So even with that massive in air destruction the large pieces were still detectable as it went down.

and lockerbie was only 26 years ago ...............

i think its safe to say technology might have improved a bit in a timeframe like 26 years

its probbably also safe to assume the worlds media is being led on wild goose chase with all the possible locations

it might be and at least one of the 9? governments involved in the search knows what happened already .........

[steve73]

Interesting to me that professional pilots have no clue either.

Does Boeing or anyone else think a 777 could 'disintegrate' at 30000+ feet? (Without a bit of help?)

I was looking up the Pan Am Lockerbie incident that was downed by a bomb. It said that when it was being tracked on radar that it went silent (radios) and the single radar blip turned into 5 radar return signals before disappearing. So even with that massive in air destruction the large pieces were still detectable as it went down.

Remember though, Pan-Am was over land perhaps less than 20-30km from a number of radar stations. The MH flight was around 200km from the two nearest radar stations...

[Chicog]

Just because they haven't found the aircraft yet does not mean they aren't going to.

It disappeared over sea, it could be anywhere.

Look how long it took to find the Titanic and they know exactly where it went down to within a few square miles. Turned out it had traversed laterally in the water far more than they expected.

Patience people.

It's a lot of sea with a lot of debris, it might take a while.

[harrry]

Interesting to me that professional pilots have no clue either.

Does Boeing or anyone else think a 777 could 'disintegrate' at 30000+ feet? (Without a bit of help?)

I was looking up the Pan Am Lockerbie incident that was downed by a bomb. It said that when it was being tracked on radar that it went silent (radios) and the single radar blip turned into 5 radar return signals before disappearing. So even with that massive in air destruction the large pieces were still detectable as it went down.

and lockerbie was only 26 years ago ...............

i think its safe to say technology might have improved a bit in a timeframe like 26 years

its probbably also safe to assume the worlds media is being led on wild goose chase with all the possible locations

it might be and at least one of the 9? governments involved in the search knows what happened already .........

In this case the change from the old fully reflective radar dating from the second world war to newer active responders type of radars may in fact show less than the older ones did. Each of the five parts tracked on Lockerbie would not have a responder now so would not be seen.

Edited March 10, 2014 by harrry

[speedtripler]

Just because they haven't found the aircraft yet does not mean they aren't going to.

It disappeared over sea, it could be anywhere.

Look how long it took to find the Titanic and they know exactly where it went down to within a few square miles. Turned out it had traversed laterally in the water far more than they expected.

Patience people.

It's a lot of sea with a lot of debris, it might take a while.

not every part of an aircraft will sink to the bottom ,especially not the fuel which being lighter than water will always stay on top

they should have located at least something by now

no pilot will put a plane down in emergency without pressing the fuel dump first

and if it exploded in mid air there should be miles of wreckage floating around an not a single piece has been spotted by 40-50

planes and a few royal navys that are involved in the search .......

[speedtripler]

Interesting to me that professional pilots have no clue either.

Does Boeing or anyone else think a 777 could 'disintegrate' at 30000+ feet? (Without a bit of help?)

I was looking up the Pan Am Lockerbie incident that was downed by a bomb. It said that when it was being tracked on radar that it went silent (radios) and the single radar blip turned into 5 radar return signals before disappearing. So even with that massive in air destruction the large pieces were still detectable as it went down.

and lockerbie was only 26 years ago ...............

i think its safe to say technology might have improved a bit in a timeframe like 26 years

its probbably also safe to assume the worlds media is being led on wild goose chase with all the possible locations

it might be and at least one of the 9? governments involved in the search knows what happened already .........

In this case the change from the old fully reflective radar dating from the second world war to newer active responders type of radars may in fact show less than the older ones did. Each of the five parts tracked on Lockerbie would not have a responder now so would not be seen.

by that reckoning a small aircraft like a fighter jet could pass radar easily

its hard to imagine aerial surveilance technology now is worse than 26 years ago

[Basil B]

Maybe someone turned off the transponder and then the plane crashed somewhere else, far away from where theire searching .? With the fuel onboard it could fly at a low altitude for hundreds of miles.

Shouldn't the plane be still visible on the primary radars (the ping type radars), even if the transponders are turned off?

The radar ping technology is also a transponder, specifically Mode-C and can be turned off or put in standby. Newer technology employed in most aircraft now is ADS-B. This uses GPS and does not require radar pinging as it is a continuous transmission. That is not allowed to be turned off unless specifically requested by control. Both Mode-C and ADS-B Mode-S are normally both active.

There are other transponders. The ELT (Emergency Locator Transmitter) which is activated by G-force or manually and there are the locator transponders in the black boxes. The odds of all 4 transponder systems failing to respond or picked up is a puzzle.

I can not think of any valid reason for telling a crew to switch off their ADS-B transponder, unless it was to go faulty like continues transmit but then it is easy to build safeguards into the circuitry to prevent that.

Also if the transponders went off line I assume as I am sure it is possible, software is built into an ATC radar system to advise of a sudden loss of secondary radar of a plane under that controllers control, therefore the controller would still see a primary Radar Blip. (or blips if the plane was breaking up).

Another factor is Mode C sends back height data as per the altimeter setting set by the pilot, so even if the plane went into a rapid decent this would have been picked up as it would have taken a few minutes to descend from 35,000ft and I assume like black boxes ATC record all radar data.

Edited March 10, 2014 by Basil B

[sirchai]

I truly believe that the Malaysian government knows more than they made public.The plane could have crashed in Cambodia, as too many rumors don't seem to make sense.

And even with a malfunctioning electrical system, would it be theoretically possible to use a cell phone in an emergency situation, or is there no reception?

Just wondering how the relatives are dealing with the circumstances.

Edited March 10, 2014 by sirchai

[angeldevil69]

You guys heard that in this MH370, there were 20 employees of Austin-based high-tech company Freescale Semiconductor? Twelve are from Malaysia and eight from China. Rumors say they had some kind of high-tech microchip which revolutionize the weapon system of today. It is conceivable that the Malaysian plane is "cloaked" hiding with high-tech electronic warfare weaponry. Seems like there are 4 passport issues! Could the CIA or any foreign organization be involved?


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[harrry]

Does anyone know why http://flightaware.com/live/flight/MAS370/history/20140307/1635Z/WMKK/ZBAA shows the flight ending east of the Cameron Highlands and not where the other trackers do when they seem to have no problem tracking other days flights,.

Edited March 10, 2014 by harrry

[steve73]

At the distance the a/c was from the radar, there would need to be quite significant separation of the pieces for them to show up as separate "blips". And probably by the time they separated sufficiently, they would have dropped below the radars minimum elevation at that distance.

However, the position of this occurrence is fairly well known and there's been no report of any sign of debris. Does seem more likely it dropped out of primary radar elevation, by fair mean or foul, and headed away from there.

[Basil B]

Interesting to me that professional pilots have no clue either.

Does Boeing or anyone else think a 777 could 'disintegrate' at 30000+ feet? (Without a bit of help?)

If it is on the ground on a landing strip?? There cannot be an infinite number of possibilities,

military or civilian can there? In the ocean is a different matter. If it is down on land I should think the

only place I can think of it might not be spotted is Kalimantan.

Plane might be in Tianjin?

Somebody knows, I fear

I do, just allow the plane to pitch down util it over speeds...

Apart from that this plane underwent some major repair work to it's wing following an accident a few years ago, that could have been botched and the wing came off, and then the whole plane broke up. (JAL123 the rear pressure bulkhead failed, causing an explosive decompression, although not causing the plane to break up, the loss of all control surfaces resulted in the biggest loss of life for a single airplane accident)

[speedtripler]

every news update just gets weirder -now it might be in cambodia and the passengers were all

working on advanced weapons ?

i think ive heard about 7 possible countries/seas the plane might have crashed in ,as if theres no evidence to show exactly

its gps coordinates that hasnt been released yet ..........

[speedtripler]

Interesting to me that professional pilots have no clue either.

Does Boeing or anyone else think a 777 could 'disintegrate' at 30000+ feet? (Without a bit of help?)

If it is on the ground on a landing strip?? There cannot be an infinite number of possibilities,

military or civilian can there? In the ocean is a different matter. If it is down on land I should think the

only place I can think of it might not be spotted is Kalimantan.

Plane might be in Tianjin?

Somebody knows, I fear

I do, just allow the plane to pitch down util it over speeds...

Apart from that this plane underwent some major repair work to it's wing following an accident a few years ago, that could have been botched and the wing came off, and then the whole plane broke up. (JAL123 the rear pressure bulkhead failed, causing an explosive decompression, although not causing the plane to break up, the loss of all control surfaces resulted in the biggest loss of life for a single airplane accident)

doesnt explain the transponders all failing at the same time ..... i thought there were 2 but someone said this plane has 4 ?

even if it was shot down by an f-16 rocket its impossible to vapourise an entire plane ,passengers and luggage

[Chicog]

not every part of an aircraft will sink to the bottom ,especially not the fuel which being lighter than water will always stay on top

they should have located at least something by now

Not if they are looking in the wrong place, and this is where the search for AF447 and MS990 should be your guide.

One pancaked and they found debris relatively quickly, but it had been swept along in stormy weather and it took almost two years to find the main sections long after the ELT stopped pinging.

The other left a thin slick and small pieces of debris having flown in at high speed and an acute angle, it was found virtually the next day and yet it took a week or something to locate the black boxes.

So first they have to find some debris, then they have to extrapolate from this where identifiable remains of the aircraft could be along with the FDR and CVR.

Edited March 10, 2014 by Chicog

[iancnx]

The longer this remains a mystery I see 3 possible scenarios

HiJacking resulting in one of the following:

1. Change of course and a crash either on land or sea, in an isolated area yet to be searched.

2. A successful landing and the government concerned has locked down all publicity and media

3. Change of course perceived to be a threat similar to 9/11 and aircraft shot down.

IMO the longer there is no news, then the chances of an airframe catastrophe on or near the flight path is become slimmer and slimmer.

Another explanation might be is the military have shot it down by mistake.... But where is the wreckage? So unlikely unless the flight went way off course into a militarised zone.

So so sorry for the poor souls on board. The family and friends must be inconsolable. Ghastly business.

As I said earlier, now it is dark here, the areas of likely impact have all been searched during daylight hours and no debris found whatsoever. Therefore the chances of an airframe catastrophic event along the flight path or in a reasonable radius of its last 'known' declared position is now highly unlikely. The aircraft is likely elsewhere and most probably as a result of a hijacking in my opinion.

Edited March 10, 2014 by iancnx

[Chicog]

At the distance the a/c was from the radar, there would need to be quite significant separation of the pieces for them to show up as separate "blips". And probably by the time they separated sufficiently, they would have dropped below the radars minimum elevation at that distance.

However, the position of this occurrence is fairly well known and there's been no report of any sign of debris. Does seem more likely it dropped out of primary radar elevation, by fair mean or foul, and headed away from there.

On the contrary, there have been two reports of debris of interest that have turned out not to be associated with this aircraft. And that's just the big bits.

These are busy waters, there is probably crap floating everywhere.

[speedtripler]

not every part of an aircraft will sink to the bottom ,especially not the fuel which being lighter than water will always stay on top

they should have located at least something by now

Not if they are looking in the wrong place, and this is where the search for AF447 and MS990 should be your guide.

One pancaked and they found debris relatively quickly, but it had been swept along in stormy weather and it took almost two years to find the main sections long after the ELT stopped pinging.

The other left a thin slick and small pieces of debris having flown in at high speed and an acute angle, and it took a week or something to locate the black boxes.

So first they have to find some debris, then they have to extrapolate from this where the remains of the aircraft could be.

the weather was reportedly calm and the sea very shallow when whatever happened happened .........thats what makes this case so unusual and the likelyhood of 4 transponders all failing to emit any signal as of yet suggests they are searching at least 200-300km in the wrong place

[harrry]

http://avherald.com/h?article=4710c69b&opt=0

Seems to give a good summary.

[coma]

Now confirmed that the two men traveling on false passports are not of Asian appearance. However the minister refused to comment on their possible nationality or ethnicity. The plot thickens.

[Jingthing]

Probably Iranians.

That is if true not being Asian and the fact that the tickets were purchased with the assistance of an Iranian helper.

That doesn't mean they were terrorists, of course.

Perhaps a migration attempt.

Edited March 10, 2014 by Jingthing

[steve73]

At the distance the a/c was from the radar, there would need to be quite significant separation of the pieces for them to show up as separate "blips". And probably by the time they separated sufficiently, they would have dropped below the radars minimum elevation at that distance.

However, the position of this occurrence is fairly well known and there's been no report of any sign of debris. Does seem more likely it dropped out of primary radar elevation, by fair mean or foul, and headed away from there.

On the contrary, there have been two reports of debris of interest that have turned out not to be associated with this aircraft. And that's just the big bits.

These are busy waters, there is probably crap floating everywhere.

OK - perhaps I should have said "no report of any sign of debris associated with this a/c"...

I still find it strange that the a/c "disappeared" almost exactly midway between the MAY and VN radar tracking stations. Co-incidence? I fear not.