English teachers recruiting

[brucetefl]

This thread is specifically about the feasibility of using English teachers as recruiters for degree that is a cooeprative venture between a US and Thai university.

I think people might doubt the credibility of this setup when students are accepted without even showing a reasonable IELTS score of 5 or 6 to study in the first year, which would be the bare minimum to get a passing understanding of the subjects they will face in English instruction. And when two universities agree to turn a blind eye when insisting the students have a reasonable level of English ability on entrance, I have to wonder how much more they are going to compromise when it comes to actually giving students a true education. You asked for opinions, and mine is that there is too much of a chance that people will see diplomas issued from these universities as ones equivalent to Khao San Road University degrees or those ordered and delivered solely on "experience", i.e. bogus ones.

From what I've read, I do not clearly understand it OP is looking for teachers to provide grade 12 students for a BA, or people who are interested in upgrading their educational background to a Master's in Education.

Please see other post. I can only assume that the OP isn't quite sure about his goals right now and in a phase of orientation .There's just too much theory about other universities.

Thank you very much for clarification, brucefefl.

[thepool]

Seems this scheme has all the hallmarks of a potential scam.

No name institutions,less than normally accepted standards for admission and an "attractive" price !

[brucetefl]

I have lived in Thailand for 18 years now, and I find it highly unlikely that this would be the kind of thing Immigration or Labor would pursue, much like cooking your own meals is technically illegal. As is all private tuition. And working at English camps. But thats just my opinion.

pay English teachers are recruiting fee of 20,000 baht for students they can bring in.

How would this affect their work permits?

Good point! It would very likely be in breach of their work permits as work permits are issued with very defined restrictions about what you can do and where you can do it, right down to an address. The only way I can see it being totally legal is if the OP arranged work permits for every fee earner he uses, and that would be unlikely, at the best.

[brucetefl]

OH NO! A GOOD AND ATTRACTIVE PRODUCT! MUST BE SOMETHING WRONG! LOL

Don't worry. In a few weeks all names will be made public. Until then no one can and will accept applications for admissions.

Seems this scheme has all the hallmarks of a potential scam.

No name institutions,less than normally accepted standards for admission and an "attractive" price !

Edited March 19, 2014 by brucetefl

[brucetefl]

I was asking about the feasibility of recruiting. You guys asked a lot of questions. I answered as completely as I can at the moment. Nothing wrong with the content.

[Brevity]

I can see some people agreeing with you. Of course, the readers of this forum are not really our target student base. And you ignore the fact that this can be a bilingual degree, with 50% of content in Thai and the fact that the IELTS or TOEFL are required, but not until after year one.

Because this degree has a bi-lingual option, the IELTS or TOEFL are not required until after year one, but they are required to go on to year two. I see this as a massive benefit. Because, lets face it, 95% of Thai students who finish M6 are not going to get a score high enough right out of school. But after spending a year with substantial English content they might very well be capable of getting a high score.

English programs can be intimidating for Thai students. This "soft start" will lessen the anxiety and make far more students capable of enrolling.

For me, I couldn't care less how well they speak English when they start. Its how they finish that matters.

And before someone calls me on the "95%" figure, its just a guess.

Seriously? Thai students who have not achieved acceptable English levels by the end of M12 are not at all likely to get them in one year of completing the core 1st-year topics and trying to upgrade their English at the same time, unless they were VERY close to acceptable IELTS, etc. by enrollment time. My opinion is that that this scheme will have very few successful candidates but some who will pay their money and get very little in the end. I really have to say that I feel this is preying on the desperate.

Edited March 19, 2014 by Brevity

[brucetefl]

So a student that has never been in a bilingual program will not improve substantially after spending a year studying classes taught in English by native English speakers?

Thats your honest belief?

Really?

I have a hard time believing that you really believe this. Honestly.

And, of course, the students who do fail can then enter into an intensive English program until they do pass the exam.

WP question answered with my personal opinion above.

Edited March 19, 2014 by brucetefl

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been removed. Posters are under no obligation to read the thread or to post.

[Scott]

Off-topic post deleted. The topic is not about Work Permit issues.

If you are not interested, don't post. If you feel the need to post inflammatory remarks, you will get a suspension.

You have been warned.

[Norrad]

Because the program participant has the option of studying in only English, would foreign students be able to join?

Sent from my GT-S5300 using Tapatalk 2

[Brevity]

So a student that has never been in a bilingual program will not improve substantially after spending a year studying classes taught in English by native English speakers?

Thats your honest belief?

Really?

I have a hard time believing that you really believe this. Honestly.

And, of course, the students who do fail can then enter into an intensive English program until they do pass the exam.

WP question answered with my personal opinion above.

Well yes, of course I honestly believe what I'm saying. Are you serious in asking that question? LOL

A student's aptitude and desire are the two most important factors in determining their likely success in learning a second language, and when those factors are present, a student will have achieved much toward acquiring that 2nd language by the end of high school and would not need what is being offered by the two universities in this scheme. If you really believe that the idea of some Thai kid without aptitude and desire is going to pass his 1st-year core university subjects AND get to IELTS 5.5 - 6.0 is realistic, we disagree greatly on this point.

But I have to go now. It will be interesting to see how this pans out if it gets off the ground. I will check back tomorrow to see if I need reply. Good evening.

[brucetefl]

In response to Norrad: Yes foreign students can enroll although we anticipate the demand to be mainly from ASEAN students. Its obviously much easier to get a visa to study in Thailand than it is in the US.

Edited March 19, 2014 by brucetefl

[brucetefl]

Well I think you are correct that the study of anything depends upon aptitude and attitude. But just because someone doesn't have an aptitude doesn't necessarily mean they can't learn. I can tell you in all honesty that I don't have an aptitude for learning languages but I can speak Cantonese and Mandarin.

Of course the methodology used in many schools is not terribly effective in developing skills needed to take these exams. But that does not mean that these students don't have A great deal of latent knowledge of English. They just need to access it.

Attitude and motivation are clearly important. Perhaps A 14-year-old in a small town in Issan doesn't have a great deal of motivation but that same student, now 18 and a university student with foreign teachers and possibly even foreign friends might be much more motivated.

So a student that has never been in a bilingual program will not improve substantially after spending a year studying classes taught in English by native English speakers?

Thats your honest belief?

Really?

I have a hard time believing that you really believe this. Honestly.

And, of course, the students who do fail can then enter into an intensive English program until they do pass the exam.

WP question answered with my personal opinion above.

Well yes, of course I honestly believe what I'm saying. Are you serious in asking that question? LOL

A student's aptitude and desire are the two most important factors in determining their likely success in learning a second language, and when those factors are present, a student will have achieved much toward acquiring that 2nd language by the end of high school and would not need what is being offered by the two universities in this scheme. If you really believe that the idea of some Thai kid without aptitude and desire is going to pass his 1st-year core university subjects AND get to IELTS 5.5 - 6.0 is realistic, we disagree greatly on this point.

But I have to go now. It will be interesting to see how this pans out if it gets off the ground. I will check back tomorrow to see if I need reply. Good evening.

[wolf5370]

Just an innocent question: If the teachers are recruited from the Sates and sent here (ignoring wages and relocation package etc vs 100k pa per student - class sizes?), what would they offer with respect to recruiting in Thailand - it is highly unlikely they would have any idea of the culture, language or an contacts. Nice idea to introduce in a few years perhaps once the courses are up and running, self attracting students and the teachers are in more of a position to be of any use. Do you not agree? Perhaps the best way would be to hire a Thai publicity company on the same basis - they could hit the right media and arrange the right events to fill up the classes. Either that, or hire from here teachers already working with experience that can bring students with them and have contacts.

[brucetefl]

As of now my side will have nothing to do with recruiting teachers. But they have many teachers already teaching in China that seem anxious for a move to Thailand.

Just an innocent question: If the teachers are recruited from the Sates and sent here (ignoring wages and relocation package etc vs 100k pa per student - class sizes?), what would they offer with respect to recruiting in Thailand - it is highly unlikely they would have any idea of the culture, language or an contacts. Nice idea to introduce in a few years perhaps once the courses are up and running, self attracting students and the teachers are in more of a position to be of any use. Do you not agree? Perhaps the best way would be to hire a Thai publicity company on the same basis - they could hit the right media and arrange the right events to fill up the classes. Either that, or hire from here teachers already working with experience that can bring students with them and have contacts.

[zeichen]

"So a student that has never been in a bilingual program will not improve substantially after spending a year studying classes taught in English by native English speakers?

Thats your honest belief?

Really?

I have a hard time believing that you really believe this. Honestly."

I too see this as a problem. If a student doesn't have the basic ability or skill set then it will not help them. Just sitting in a class hearing someone talk in a foreign language utilizing academic language and approach subject matter to a profound level will do nothing but overwhelm students with lower language ability.

Though I do think that expsoure and the right environment can really help students improve their language skills Bilingual programs or English intensive programs are not effective for students with little to no ability in that language. I have worked for several univiersities in Thailand, Korea and China that offer programs like this and many of the students that start with a very low ability graduate with a very low ability. Those that start with a mediocre ability tend to finish with a much higher ability, so to me it shows that it is important to have a good foundation of language before being thrown into the deep end.

[Scott]

I would have to agree with Zeichen in general. Students need a fairly good foundation to learn in a foreign language I am afraid, however, that we are straying off the topic.

[soundman]

Two posts have been removed for being unnecessarily sarcastic.

If you are drunk I would seriously consider putting a lock on your keyboard when logged onto Thai Visa.