Street food/food poisoning/sanitation

[CraigSchuler]

Ya'll worry too much!

[techboy]

FYI techboy...................I have witnessed all of the above as my wife has been involved in the food vendor business for generations and is currently involved, but she knows the rules. The basic rules apply everywhere in the world and especially here in the tropics. Not bashing Thais, but bashing dangerous ignorance...............

The "terrible risk" really set me off. You cannot verify all of the above without equipment for microbial analysis and the point about your wife's work is only a plausible sounding blanket dodge of the items which I take exception to. Your wife being in the food vendor business may give you some insight but does not justify what you imply as being the norm. You are for the most part stating assumption as fact. Also you are talking about sausage, which likely isolates the health practices of the vendor that sold you the bad food from negligence, outside of trusting his supplier. The vendor was quite possibly a victim in that he unknowingly purchased sausage that he had no way of knowing was tainted. I do not believe that food cart hygiene was an issue here.

BTW. 3000+ posts you have? Appears as though you have been here for quit awhile. How many times has eating at food carts given you a bad tummy? I mean maybe my luck is good but the last time I got the trots was from an expensive Bangkok restaurant.

[onni4me]

I was once at an agricultural affair and sat down to a little place to drink and eat something.

The spot where I sat had a direct view over to toilet area (which was pretty clean and well-organized, not always so) and I witnessed about 50 to a 100 people going to relieve themselves and not ONE washed their hands in the sink outside. I had been inside earlier and there was no place to wash hands inside.

And a cherry on top was our little food shops waiter/cook who went to toilet and guess what? Yep, you guessed it.

Some studies suggest that 90% of all infections could be avoided if people just would wash their hands...it has been a struggle to teach my folks to wash before preparing food and eating. They used to rush to the sticky rice pot when returning home but now they wash hands before. Talk about teaching basics.

[kaveh]

sorry to hear that and also thanks for the simple but critical note.

by the way, could we know what they exactly done in hospital?

i mean, if there are some known remedies for situation like this, it'll be so good to know, cause i don't have access (on islands) to hospital most of the times.

[Estrada]

After 10 years in Thailand, the only places I have been sick from the food is 1 large hotel in Sukhumvit 11 and my neighbor.

Street food sells quick so no long term storing.

Unless you eat at some out of the way food stall

You are delusional.

Contained within each bacterium is the genetic information that the bacteria needs to produce a new, replicated bacterium. This allows bacteria to multiply exponentially. According to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, bacterium can double within 20 to 30 minutes, meaning that one bacterium turns into two, then two become four, leading eventually to the formation of millions of cells in a few hours. While millions of cells may be in a food item, it only takes as few as 10 in number E. Coli bacteria to make you sick, so even a small amount of bacteria can be harmful. That means that when the street vendor returns for the toilet after not washing his hands and touches the meat hanging from his Nahm Tok Neua stall, within a little over an hour you will have enough E. Coli hanging on your meat to make you sick.

The BMA launched a campaign during Governor Samak's days of teaching and encouraging street vendors to sell clean food but that has fell by the wayside in light of Government controls aimed at keeping the cost of living down. I have lived here 20 years and used to eat off the street with occasional bouts of food poisoning, but in the last few years I have had a number of very bad bouts of food poisoning when my kids have bought from the wrong street vendors.

Fortunately there is one street vendor who washes the pans in running water each time he cooks a new meal and he keeps the fresh food below 5C until he needs to use it.

[paulchiangmai]

just think like this: street food = animals that died at farm/factory, normally should be destroyed, but someone is selling them on the cheap and ending up in your bowl of whatever... never tought about those 5-10 baht meat sticks or lunches of 30 baht ?

roadkill also comes to mind...anything that can make a buck

they do not care if you do not come back, plenty of other hungry sheep

some people go to small restaurant, see rats flee out of the place, cockroaches on the walls, and still enter....

Maybe five years ago now my now father in law bought four buffaloes for 10,000 baht each, he would take them out to graze along the road side, one morning for whatever reason one of them died, no obvious reason for this, as you can imagine the owner was not happy about his 10,000 baht lying there dead, no problem, somebody notified a person who I gather was the local butcher who came along and payed owner 6,000 baht for the carcass and hauled it off, your guess is as good as mine as to what he did with it.

[Suradit69]

It doesn't matter where you eat in Thailand - The biggest restaurant or the smallest street stall, the hygiene conditions the food is prepared in and the supply chain of the food from farm to restaurant is abysmal (sorry for the understatement).

But, you have to eat, so take the usual precautions and at least try and buy/eat at the cleanest "looking" places. It doesn't really help, but you will feel as though you're at least trying.

Um....was at a big mall recently considering a big brand burger. Was inspecting the menu and salivating over a whopper burger (that's a giveaway) when I noticed Somchai in the food assembly area with his thumb up his nose. He then promptly gathered a bun, slapped on a pattie etc. and then the top bun. All with no gloves.

Even training provided by the big brands didn't stop his thumb getting up his nose, so I would second guess that the priority at his last toilet visit was popping a pimple and greasing his hair - as opposed to washing his hands.

"It doesn't matter where you eat in Thailand ..."

If only they could be super careful like all the chosen people back in Farang Utopia.

Northern Europe is in the throes of a record-setting outbreak of potentially fatal food poisoning that has caused serious illness in more than 1,200 and killed 16. The pathogen is a virulent strain of bacteria called enterohemorrhagic E. coli. This enterohemorrhagic E. coli can cause severe gastrointestinal and systemic disease, including hemolytic-uremic syndrome leading to kidney failure and death. The source of the bacteria is still unknown, but fresh cucumbers, tomatoes or lettuce are the prime suspects.

Modern farming operations — especially the larger ones — employ strict standards and safeguards designed to keep food free of pathogens. But growers of fresh produce cannot ensure that their harvests will be completely safe all the time. During the past few years, the American food supply has experienced a number of high-profile incidents of contamination of beef, fresh produce and processed foods, including Mexican peppers, California lettuce and peanuts from a Georgia processing plant. Federal officials have expressed concern: “We recognize that we have reached a plateau in the prevention of foodborne disease, and there must be new efforts to develop and evaluate food-safety practices from the farm to the table,” said Robert Tauxe, the deputy director of the CDC’s Division of Foodborne, Bacterial and Mycotic Diseases.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/henrymiller/2011/06/01/europes-food-poising-outbreak-reaping-what-it-has-sown/

Edited March 10, 2014 by Suradit69

[Oscar2]

just think like this: street food = animals that died at farm/factory, normally should be destroyed, but someone is selling them on the cheap and ending up in your bowl of whatever... never tought about those 5-10 baht meat sticks or lunches of 30 baht ?

roadkill also comes to mind...anything that can make a buck

they do not care if you do not come back, plenty of other hungry sheep

some people go to small restaurant, see rats flee out of the place, cockroaches on the walls, and still enter....

right. i've seen rats the size of small cats come out of restaurants in BKK yet falang backpackers still go inside. seen cockroaches everywhere in restaurants in Thailand.

i never eat street food - ever ever ever. about 3 years ago an American friend was visiting. we were out drinking and he was hungry. we stopped at a street food place on Moon Muang and I observed the lady cook chopping raw chicken, pork, and seafood/shellfish on the same dirty wooden block without washing it; only wiping the block with a dirty rag. she would then scoop up the raw items and lift them up over to the wok, passing over the bins of raw vegetables on the way to the wok. just seeing that made me sick. i warned my friend that it looked dangerous and after having a few Sang Som with beer chasers he was "not worried". the next day the wife's family took him to Doi Suthep and Phubing Palace and we had to stop at quite literally every toilet between his hotel and Phuping Palace for him to relieve himself. at the Hmong village he was gone for a good 40 minutes while we sat in the car waiting. that was his first squat toilet in Thailand. that evening we took him to a clinic near his hotel as he was quite sick. i never forgot that (nor did my friend). all he remembered of Doi Suthep was the toilet! street food can be very dangerous.

[BrentG]

Spending a minimum of 4 months a year for the last 10 years in Thailand i have never become ill from eating street food buy following one simple rule, eat where the locals eat.

[DLP]

I never eat street food & have never had any problem.

[DLP]

There is a huge difference between street vendor food cooked to order for you (like many noodle stalls) and the food that is already prepared and sitting out. The former is as safe as restaurant food (maybe more so since you can see what they are doing....) while the latter does carry a risk especially in the hot season. If you must buy food that was already prepared, try to do so when the stall first sets up, before it has been sitting out for long.

But then it could possibly be yesterdays food.

[ArfurMaggot]

Personally, I never eat any food off the street and even at home, I enforce a strict 3 second rule!

[Jose]

Personally, I never eat any food off the street and even at home, I enforce a strict 3 second rule!

3 second rule

[bearbearjohn]

Simple rule I use: Go to the vendor who has people waiting in line for the their food.

The busiest vendors have a great turnover of food, and no time for it to get old.

Just a thought...

[jaideeguy]

Just returned from the hospital again where my wife was Dxed with food poisoning and was this time given 2 antibiotics [doxycycline and some other broad range antibiotic] along with stronger antispasmodics. Our regular Dr confirmed that the Issan sausages were probably the cause.........very often is.

The wife told me the recipe for the sour Issan sausages............hang the meat outside in the heat of the day and let the flies gather on it while you prepare the sticky rice and spices. When the meat is slighty rotten bring it in and grind it up and shove it into intestines [that probably haven't been cleaned properly], then let them hang the sausage links and ferment more. Then you go out into the hot sun and BBQ them when ordered, letting the others sit out in the sun.

Oh, techboy.............most sausages here are not purchased at a shop by the vendor, but home made [by a version of the above recipe] and if made properly, no problem, but if made by an idiot that doesn't know about proper sanitation, it can be a terrible risk that should be regulated.

And another FYI........I've lived in the tropics for over 50 years [Asia for 30 yrs] and have eaten everything that was available on the streets of Asia...............the more exotic/ the more exciting [and the more I could brag about it]. Insects. grubs, ant eggs, pig heads, balut and even dog [in the Philippines] and all kinds of mystery meats that I'll never know what they were, so I paid my dues. I do draw the line at eating the raw pig's blood that the local northerners eat.

I'm now a bit older and more cautious and have a weaker stomach and have seen that done that and eaten that and don't need to brag about my diet like I did when I was young [and dumb].

Agree that you're probably safer going with foods that are prepared in front of you, but do you know the 'history' of the ingredients?? I know the history of what I buy at least as far as after I purchase it and it goes directly in the cooler, then at home, directly into the fridge or freezer.

My OP was not meant to insult any clean and knowledgeable vendors, but to offer some caution to consumers of street foods and mention our latest episode of food poisoning.

Edited March 10, 2014 by jaideeguy

[sam sen]

walking round my local area in the evening/at night i often see cats and rats climbing all over the street food vendors vacant stalls. i'm sure these surfaces are not hygienically cleaned prior to use the following day.

i got terribly sick on delicious street food in Lebanon years ago. never again. i know i may miss some great tastes but i dont want that 7 days of freezing cold sweating fever, liquid pouring from every orifice, stomach cramped experience again.

[DLP]

Just returned from the hospital again where my wife was Dxed with food poisoning and was this time given 2 antibiotics [doxycycline and some other broad range antibiotic] along with stronger antispasmodics. Our regular Dr confirmed that the Issan sausages were probably the cause.........very often is.

The wife told me the recipe for the sour Issan sausages............hang the meat outside in the heat of the day and let the flies gather on it while you prepare the sticky rice and spices. When the meat is slighty rotten bring it in and grind it up and shove it into intestines [that probably haven't been cleaned properly], then let them hang the sausage links and ferment more. Then you go out into the hot sun and BBQ them when ordered, letting the others sit out in the sun.

Oh, techboy.............most sausages here are not purchased at a shop by the vendor, but home made [by a version of the above recipe] and if made properly, no problem, but if made by an idiot that doesn't know about proper sanitation, it can be a terrible risk that should be regulated.

And another FYI........I've lived in the tropics for over 50 years [Asia for 30 yrs] and have eaten everything that was available on the streets of Asia...............the more exotic/ the more exciting [and the more I could brag about it]. Insects. grubs, ant eggs, pig heads, balut and even dog [in the Philippines] and all kinds of mystery meats that I'll never know what they were, so I paid my dues. I do draw the line at eating the raw pig's blood that the local northerners eat.

I'm now a bit older and more cautious and have a weaker stomach and have seen that done that and eaten that and don't need to brag about my diet like I did when I was young [and dumb].

Agree that you're probably safer going with foods that are prepared in front of you, but do you know the 'history' of the ingredients?? I know the history of what I buy at least as far as after I purchase it and it goes directly in the cooler, then at home, directly into the fridge or freezer.

My OP was not meant to insult any clean and knowledgeable vendors, but to offer some caution to consumers of street foods and mention our latest episode of food poisoning.

What tests did the doctor perform to come to the conclusion that it was Issan sausage.

[habfan]

Another rule of thumb I have.

Never buy grilled chicken from the street stalls after 3pm.

If its not a high turnover cart then you may be choosing chicken that has been in the sun and swarming with flies since 8am.

Since I got f.p from roadside chicken years ago I am quite choosy about where I buy from and the time of day.

About 15 years ago I was cruising around outside Krabi on rented scooter. I was on vacation it was a beautiful blue sky day and I hadn't a care in the world. It was around 3pm when I realized I hadn't had lunch yet and low and behold a roadside Thai market was coming up on my left. I pulled over and went inside thinking there would not be much on offer at this time of day, amazingly there was a stall with 5 or 6 pieces of what I call Kenthaiky fried chicken (which I love ). I purchased 2 pieces and went back to where I parked my scooter to eat my chicken thinking all the while just how lucky I was to have found a stall that still had some food left not to mention one of my favorites at this time of the afternoon for sale. At about 1am I awoke in my bungalow realizing my luck had gone south as well as all my bodily functions.

I wished I'd had the knowledge of your wise rule of thumb back then eyecatcher, it's certainly been my rule of thumb ever since.

Funny thing is while I was eating the chicken I thought it tasted a little odd but I just put it down to being some exotic spice in the batter.

[mudscrubber]

There is a huge difference between street vendor food cooked to order for you (like many noodle stalls) and the food that is already prepared and sitting out. The former is as safe as restaurant food (maybe more so since you can see what they are doing....) while the latter does carry a risk especially in the hot season. If you must buy food that was already prepared, try to do so when the stall first sets up, before it has been sitting out for long.

I'm not sure about that at all. The most dangerous items are raw meat and seafood. And of the fresh meat and seafood the most dangerous are kind that are ground up. In meat from a healthy animal you won't find bacteria inside, only on the surface. But when you grind it, all those bacteria on the surface now get mixed up in the interior. Most of the dangerous bacteria are anaerobic - the don't grow in the presence of oxygen. But once the meat is ground and the anaerobic bacteria are inside, they can thrive. In addition, because the meat is ground up and all kind of juices released, it's much easier for the bacteria to access the nutrients.

This is why in places like New York, you don't see hamburger carts. Health officials judge it's just too dangerous. Keeping raw ground meat in a non refrigerated cart with no running water is not safe. It's also why you see lots and lots of hotdog carts in NYC. Not only are hotdogs precooked, but they are full of salt and preservatives which inhibit bacterial growth. Maybe preservatives will damge you in the long run, but bacteria can do it in a sprint.

Edited March 10, 2014 by mudscrubber

[Oscar2]

walking round my local area in the evening/at night i often see cats and rats climbing all over the street food vendors vacant stalls. i'm sure these surfaces are not hygienically cleaned prior to use the following day.

i got terribly sick on delicious street food in Lebanon years ago. never again. i know i may miss some great tastes but i dont want that 7 days of freezing cold sweating fever, liquid pouring from every orifice, stomach cramped experience again.

yes indeed. just the other evening while waiting on a friend, i was sitting at a table in front of a beauty salon that was closed. next-door was a outdoor-type restaurant that was also closed. there was a cat sitting by my feet looking for attention. all of a sudden i noticed the cat freeze up, shaking his tail and staring in the direction of the restaurant. i looked up to see what he was looking at and lo and behold there was a large rat climbing on the plastic drying trays where all the dishes had been washed before closing. Of course there was the typical dish cloth draped over the dishes as you often see in Thai restaurants but.......for sure those dishes won't be re-washed in the morning!

[lucifer666]

I hope your wife and daughter is ok mate. Have to say that i have only had Delhi Belly a few times in the last 2 years that ive been here ( probably down to a chilli overdose). I tend to study a street food vendor before i will eat there( after having seen baby cockroaches and thinking it was burnt rice), Now i mostly only eat food that i personally cook.

[tomyumchai]

and anyway, issan sausage is an odds on favorite for the spreads. got it 10 years ago and never eaten 1 since. last year i got full on dysentary after eating in a german restaurant in CM. what i left up the walls in a squat down public toilet was a sight to see so i called my mate in to check it out. he promptly threw up in the dirty sink. meanwhile another mate was just finishing up in the thai boxing ring and went to wash his face...............in the same sink.

[Oscar2]

and anyway, issan sausage is an odds on favorite for the spreads. got it 10 years ago and never eaten 1 since. last year i got full on dysentary after eating in a german restaurant in CM. what i left up the walls in a squat down public toilet was a sight to see so i called my mate in to check it out. he promptly threw up in the dirty sink. meanwhile another mate was just finishing up in the thai boxing ring and went to wash his face...............in the same sink.

thanks for that. i got sick reading about your misadventure. this thread is deteriorating ...

[onthedarkside]

Off topic post and the replies - removed

[Choonpon]

My husband told me when he was in the gents he noticed nearly All the chefs/kitchen helpers who visited the toilet didn't wash their hands after. And they are from high-class restaurants.

[Slip]

Another rule of thumb I have.

Never buy grilled chicken from the street stalls after 3pm.

If its not a high turnover cart then you may be choosing chicken that has been in the sun and swarming with flies since 8am.

Since I got f.p from roadside chicken years ago I am quite choosy about where I buy from and the time of day.

About 15 years ago I was cruising around outside Krabi on rented scooter. I was on vacation it was a beautiful blue sky day and I hadn't a care in the world. It was around 3pm when I realized I hadn't had lunch yet and low and behold a roadside Thai market was coming up on my left. I pulled over and went inside thinking there would not be much on offer at this time of day, amazingly there was a stall with 5 or 6 pieces of what I call Kenthaiky fried chicken (which I love ). I purchased 2 pieces and went back to where I parked my scooter to eat my chicken thinking all the while just how lucky I was to have found a stall that still had some food left not to mention one of my favorites at this time of the afternoon for sale. At about 1am I awoke in my bungalow realizing my luck had gone south as well as all my bodily functions.

I wished I'd had the knowledge of your wise rule of thumb back then eyecatcher, it's certainly been my rule of thumb ever since.

Funny thing is while I was eating the chicken I thought it tasted a little odd but I just put it down to being some exotic spice in the batter.

Please forgive my bold, but that was where you went wrong.

[Fookhaht]

....and I'm sure there are more rules that they break.

Oh yeah, plenty.

How about letting the local soi dog take a piss in the sidewalk-level dish washing tub? Seen it.

[habfan]

Another rule of thumb I have.

Never buy grilled chicken from the street stalls after 3pm.

If its not a high turnover cart then you may be choosing chicken that has been in the sun and swarming with flies since 8am.

Since I got f.p from roadside chicken years ago I am quite choosy about where I buy from and the time of day.

About 15 years ago I was cruising around outside Krabi on rented scooter. I was on vacation it was a beautiful blue sky day and I hadn't a care in the world. It was around 3pm when I realized I hadn't had lunch yet and low and behold a roadside Thai market was coming up on my left. I pulled over and went inside thinking there would not be much on offer at this time of day, amazingly there was a stall with 5 or 6 pieces of what I call Kenthaiky fried chicken (which I love ). I purchased 2 pieces and went back to where I parked my scooter to eat my chicken thinking all the while just how lucky I was to have found a stall that still had some food left not to mention one of my favorites at this time of the afternoon for sale. At about 1am I awoke in my bungalow realizing my luck had gone south as well as all my bodily functions.

I wished I'd had the knowledge of your wise rule of thumb back then eyecatcher, it's certainly been my rule of thumb ever since.

Funny thing is while I was eating the chicken I thought it tasted a little odd but I just put it down to being some exotic spice in the batter.

Please forgive my bold, but that was where you went wrong.

Without question! In hindsight I would have saved myself a lot of grief if I had just spit out the odd tasting mouthful and tossed the rest.

[arunsakda]

There is a difference between too much chiles and a blowout vs food poisoning.

The only time I got really sick in CM was from an upscale Japanese place. Hours later could not hold down water, poison discharge coming out both ends. Fearing dehydration next day almost checked self into hospital, but eventually recovered with spoonfuls of electrolyte solution.

Edited March 11, 2014 by arunsakda