Land Crackdown Targets Thai Shareholders

[Dragonman]

Farangs that buy real estate do not "invest" in Thailand, they molest it. Real estate is a NON-PRODUCTIVE asset.

The ONLY reason you need to buy vs rent is to sell it to a Thai at a higher price than they woud have paid otherwise.

What a load of crap...

Couldn't have put it better myself.

Either Thaible is the new Economic Advisor to the Government, or he doesn't know his GDP's from his assets.

[Gary A]

Thaible is not the only educated Thai who thinks that way. I have a good Thai male friend and we were talking about giving the troubled far southern provinces back to the muslims. He told me that will NEVER happen because Thailand belongs to the Thais. That led to talking about this bogus company deal. He told me that every square inch of Thailand belongs to the Thai people and no one can change that.

Farangs that buy real estate do not "invest" in Thailand, they molest it. Real estate is a NON-PRODUCTIVE asset.

The ONLY reason you need to buy vs rent is to sell it to a Thai at a higher price than they woud have paid otherwise.

What a load of crap...

Couldn't have put it better myself.

Either Thaible is the new Economic Advisor to the Government, or he doesn't know his GDP's from his assets.

[Martin]

That view:

"He told me that every square inch of Thailand belongs to the Thai people and no one can change that."

does seem to be one result of all the efforts from Bangkok to form and consolidate the "Thai Identity".

An anthropologist called Niels Mulder has published a book on this, in which he looks at the material that it is laid down shall be taught in schools about this, and the pronouncements of the National Identity Office.

Personally, I think it is rather good that some countries say (in broad outline) "We will stay as we are to the greatest possible extent", whilst others say "We will welcome all and sundry and see what results from being such a melting pot".

The controversy all starts though when some in the first sort of country say "Let's relax a bit and get some of that foreign money in".

And some in the second sort start to say "It is time to stop foreigners coming in and taking our jobs"!!!

Such are the threads that make up the rich tapestry of life.

[bquick]

I took out a thai lease for 30 years (registered in land office) and afterwards the landlord told me after a drink that leases in thailand mean nothing to thai people and that the landlord could take it back anytime. I said if you did and i would be forced to sue you for which i got the reply "Everybody know the farang always lose in law here. waste your money."

Then there was talk about a simple accident would take care of any such problem like that the landlord might have.

all smiles so i guess the landlord meant sending some punks to give a few broken bones or simpler maybe knocking one down in a pickup or sending a few punks around to pretend to rob the house or like that.

Anyway moral is to stay on good terms with landlords here and their heirs.

Thailand has gone sour with learning all about what thais or the thais that affect us really think so it is just a matter of time before i go back to my homecountry for good or to another more honest country. I hate having wasted so much money in the country with no real appreciation.

[Steph1012]

we all need to stop investing in thailand. why should we as foreigners settle for 49% of ownership anyway when 100% of the money is ours. my wife can own land and a house in the united states 100%. i will not be investing another dime here. i will just live here and save my money now. and yes i own land and a house here in my wifes name. we have been together 11 years and believe it or not she is 4 years older then me. save your money and find a country that allows 100% ownership and when we start to retire and bring our money to a different country you will see things change and then it will be too late for thailand. if anyone knows of countrys that allow 100% ownership in asia for foreigners let us all know. time to start another boom somewhere else and watch the market here go bust. i do feel bad for everyone that is getting screwed, i hope you all can sell quickly to a thai. and no i would not buy a condo here. i do not believe the law for condos will stay the way it is. it will change also.

Farangs that buy real estate do not "invest" in Thailand, they molest it. Real estate is a NON-PRODUCTIVE asset.

The ONLY reason you need to buy vs rent is to sell it to a Thai at a higher price than they woud have paid otherwise.

[Steph1012]

we all need to stop investing in thailand. why should we as foreigners settle for 49% of ownership anyway when 100% of the money is ours. my wife can own land and a house in the united states 100%. i will not be investing another dime here. i will just live here and save my money now. and yes i own land and a house here in my wifes name. we have been together 11 years and believe it or not she is 4 years older then me. save your money and find a country that allows 100% ownership and when we start to retire and bring our money to a different country you will see things change and then it will be too late for thailand. if anyone knows of countrys that allow 100% ownership in asia for foreigners let us all know. time to start another boom somewhere else and watch the market here go bust. i do feel bad for everyone that is getting screwed, i hope you all can sell quickly to a thai. and no i would not buy a condo here. i do not believe the law for condos will stay the way it is. it will change also.

Farangs that buy real estate do not "invest" in Thailand, they molest it. Real estate is a NON-PRODUCTIVE asset.

The ONLY reason you need to buy vs rent is to sell it to a Thai at a higher price than they woud have paid otherwise.

So the mighty Thaible has spoken!

The usual flawed logic. A falang with 10 million Baht comes to Thailand, buys a house and tries to sell it on to a Thai at an inflated price!!

The intelegent falang is coming to a country with a minimum wage of 185 baht per day!! and this is often circumvented by companies employing thias on temporary contracts. Where the hel_l is the market Thaible? Have you ever been outside your house, or internet cafe, or wherever you lurk?

We have racists like you in Europe and the States and withour exception they are all loosers. Small town small minded people. I suggest you travel and broaden your mind, then perhaps you will be able to find a woman interested in you.

Heres a quick list of Thai benefitting from my purchace. All 100% Thai owned companies.

House 5,000,000

Kitchen 125,000

Furniture 400,000

Air con 75,000

Landscaping 50,000

Car 1,650,000

Computer 36,000

All this money came from Europe and went into THAI pockets. The most worred people in Phuket at the moment are the small to medium Thai businesses (Gardners, fitters, plumbers, electricians etc.).

They know that in the unlikey even of falangs being driven from these shores that their businesses would die with them. Remember, there if a duel pricing scheme in Thailand and we are the high paying clients!!

The biggest crime in this country is rich Thais turning over poor Thias and ensuring they stay that way. As it was, so shall it ever be if slime like Thaible were to have a say in the real world.

Really hurts that "un-educated" northerners are threatening his heritage. Fancy having to Kreng Jai to somebody darker skinned than you that may have done a real days work!

[Noel]

This was posted on the Message Board of a Pattaya oriented website. I know the poster concerned: he is associated with a local Thai lawyer:

"the way it is at the moment is that you can not transfer any land into a thai company that has any form of ferang ownership whether it be shareholder or director.All you do is transfer the shares to 7 thai people and get the sharetransfer documents signed and resold back to you (so they cant do anything bad in the company) You then have a thai company 100% owned by thais but you have the papers they need to control the company so they cant do anything. Go to the land office and transfer the land into the 100% thai company then the following day go to company house and transfer back 49% of the shares to yourself. The law does not state you can not have property in a thai company that is not 100% thai but the land office state they will not transfer land into any company that is not 100% thai owned so thats the way around it. Anyone who has a house in a company that is 49% ferang owned before the middle of may has nothing to worry about the law in thailand can not be back dated so they cant take your house from you."

[Gary A]

A lease violates one of my key principles of surviving in Thailand; NEVER be worth more dead than alive. The other two are Keep a low profile and never spend more than you can afford to lose. Works for me.

I took out a thai lease for 30 years (registered in land office) and afterwards the landlord told me after a drink that leases in thailand mean nothing to thai people and that the landlord could take it back anytime. I said if you did and i would be forced to sue you for which i got the reply "Everybody know the farang always lose in law here. waste your money."

Then there was talk about a simple accident would take care of any such problem like that the landlord might have.

all smiles so i guess the landlord meant sending some punks to give a few broken bones or simpler maybe knocking one down in a pickup or sending a few punks around to pretend to rob the house or like that.

Anyway moral is to stay on good terms with landlords here and their heirs.

Thailand has gone sour with learning all about what thais or the thais that affect us really think so it is just a matter of time before i go back to my homecountry for good or to another more honest country. I hate having wasted so much money in the country with no real appreciation.

[Thaible]

This was posted on the Message Board of a Pattaya oriented website. I know the poster concerned: he is associated with a local Thai lawyer:

"the way it is at the moment is that you can not transfer any land into a thai company that has any form of ferang ownership whether it be shareholder or director.All you do is transfer the shares to 7 thai people and get the sharetransfer documents signed and resold back to you (so they cant do anything bad in the company) You then have a thai company 100% owned by thais but you have the papers they need to control the company so they cant do anything. Go to the land office and transfer the land into the 100% thai company then the following day go to company house and transfer back 49% of the shares to yourself. The law does not state you can not have property in a thai company that is not 100% thai but the land office state they will not transfer land into any company that is not 100% thai owned so thats the way around it. Anyone who has a house in a company that is 49% ferang owned before the middle of may has nothing to worry about the law in thailand can not be back dated so they cant take your house from you."

All of these legal loopholes can be changed in days. With elections coming up in October. I will personally be voting for the party that wants to reclaim Thailand back for the Thai people. I am not the only Thai person sick of seeing farangs buying real estate for speculation so they can sell it back to Thais at a higher price. It's pretty obvious to anyone who compares Phuket to any other parts of Thailand.

Edited June 13, 2006 by Thaible

[ovenman]

All of these legal loopholes can be changed in days. With elections coming up in October. I will personally be voting for the party that wants to reclaim Thailand back for the Thai people.

There's still time... perhaps you should start your own political party and make this one idea your platform. I always love to see a plethora of single-issue candidates running for office. They are entertaining.

[Noel]

All of these legal loopholes can be changed in days. With elections coming up in October. I will personally be voting for the party that wants to reclaim Thailand back for the Thai people.

There's still time... perhaps you should start your own political party and make this one idea your platform. I always love to see a plethora of single-issue candidates running for office. They are entertaining.

Yes, Thaible could well be Thailand's answer to Britain's late Lord Sutch, the leader of the Official Monster Raving Loony Party...

[Sir Burr]

All of these legal loopholes can be changed in days. With elections coming up in October. I will personally be voting for the party that wants to reclaim Thailand back for the Thai people. I am not the only Thai person sick of seeing farangs buying real estate for speculation so they can sell it back to Thais at a higher price. It's pretty obvious to anyone who compares Phuket to any other parts of Thailand.

So who sells this land to farangs in the first place, could it be ...................................Thai people?

Edited June 13, 2006 by Sir Burr

[ando]

To own the land your country is sitting on is everything. Even though it disadvantages me as a foreigner in Thailand I have to admire the Thais for sticking to their guns on this one. There are foreigners qued up all around the world to get a hold of a piece of Thai real estate. The Thais don't need to open up the market to allow foreign ownership of their prime real estate in order to keep the want to be foreign settlers from going elsewhere. Its just not going to happen that foreign investors will be scarred off. Thailand is still one of the most desirable Asian countries for westerners to want to live in. If you don't like the rules in Thailand, go to Philippines, Malaysia, Vietnam, China or Burma. Plenty of other westerners happy to live in Thailand under Thai rules.

All this confusion will blow over once the foreign real estate developers are culled out.

Thai land ownership for Thais. Whats wrong with that ? Why should they sell out their children's future to foreigners for short term profits? Just because we in the west are prepared to do it doesn't make it good policy for Thailand. The huge disparity in distribution of wealth between the average westerner and the average Thai defeats the argument that we can sell our land to them but they cant sell to us.

Go live in Thailand. Enjoy your place in the sun and the cheap cost of living for the rest or your days. But don't go to Thailand with the idea of owning land that will be handed to your children in some foreign country to the detriment of Thais whose land it is by birthright.

It seems to me that there are a lot of people here acting like spoiled brats simply because they have a lot of money relative to the average Thai land owner, and they cant get their own way.

Simple, if you don't like the land laws in Thailand, go buy some place else. You will not be missed by the Thai people, I can assure you of that!

[lukamar]

I am not the only Thai person sick of seeing farangs buying real estate for speculation so they can sell it back to Thais at a higher price.

What really needs to happen is that the government changes the land ownership law so speculation won't happen, as often. If foreigners holding valid long tern visas, eg:- retirement, married, etc, were allowed to own a certain size plot of land be it 50 wa, 100 wa, 1 rai or 50 rai whatever, then the situation of holding companies would not even come into play. Married couples could own jointly and you could always have a priviso that on the death of the foriegn owner the land would have to be sold or transfered back to a Thai. Most people on this forum just want a place to live and set down roots and would be more than happy with that situation.

Thaible I respsect your nationalism and your passion but unfortunately someone will speculate on land and the situation will remain the same for the average Thai buyer the only difference is the money will be going into a Thai pocket instead of a foreign one.

[BlackJack]

nothing like a bit of long term planning

Indians/Chinese came here years ago and then raised familes that as thai citizens could legally buy and own land / property etc.

No stopping them now - have a look at the primo real estate in BKK thats owned by Chinese / indian families

all legit

Thai what Thai

look under the rock its not owned by Thais at all

[Heng]

I am not the only Thai person sick of seeing farangs buying real estate for speculation so they can sell it back to Thais at a higher price. It's pretty obvious to anyone who compares Phuket to any other parts of Thailand.

Are you sure these aren't just personal issues, Thaible? Locals are doing the same thing to farangs. It's called a market. The Thais who are buying from farangs, the farangs who are buying from Thais, are those who can afford it. Who's losing out? In the near term, no one. It evens out. In the long term, if anything, as per the usual, after one generation it's the falangs (when was the last time you heard of a falang inheriting land in Thailand?).

Edited June 13, 2006 by Heng

[Tornado]

This was posted on the Message Board of a Pattaya oriented website. I know the poster concerned: he is associated with a local Thai lawyer:

"the way it is at the moment is that you can not transfer any land into a thai company that has any form of ferang ownership whether it be shareholder or director.All you do is transfer the shares to 7 thai people and get the sharetransfer documents signed and resold back to you (so they cant do anything bad in the company) You then have a thai company 100% owned by thais but you have the papers they need to control the company so they cant do anything. Go to the land office and transfer the land into the 100% thai company then the following day go to company house and transfer back 49% of the shares to yourself. The law does not state you can not have property in a thai company that is not 100% thai but the land office state they will not transfer land into any company that is not 100% thai owned so thats the way around it. Anyone who has a house in a company that is 49% ferang owned before the middle of may has nothing to worry about the law in thailand can not be back dated so they cant take your house from you."

All of these legal loopholes can be changed in days. With elections coming up in October. I will personally be voting for the party that wants to reclaim Thailand back for the Thai people. I am not the only Thai person sick of seeing farangs buying real estate for speculation so they can sell it back to Thais at a higher price. It's pretty obvious to anyone who compares Phuket to any other parts of Thailand.

[highdiver]

All of these legal loopholes can be changed in days. With elections coming up in October. I will personally be voting for the party that wants to reclaim Thailand back for the Thai people. I am not the only Thai person sick of seeing farangs buying real estate for speculation so they can sell it back to Thais at a higher price. It's pretty obvious to anyone who compares Phuket to any other parts of Thailand.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Reclaim Thailand for thai???? would you feel the same about Thai lossing investments in other countries?

If a thai business man invested for business or private investment in another country and was told he couldnt because he is Thai. would that be acceptable to you???

Wake up!!! we are aliving in a world that is so small and capital is moving from countries that do have to countries that dont.

before 9 years Thailand borrowed money from the "rich farrang" countries to survive the economic crisis.

the new real estate boom along with a huge amont of capital from Farrangs that poured into thailand has made a lot of thai people very rich and boosted the thai economics.

So now that Thailand is back on track you dont need the farrang any more???

Do you think a coco farmer n phuket samui or even Isan will agree with you. He has a chnce to sell his land for a huge amount of money that can provide for him and his family for years, improve the qulity of life and allow him to give his kids the best education so they dont need to be coco farmers or rice pickers.

what do you suggest he do?? stay poor???

[KhunMarco]

You guys are really brave, trying to teach bears to poo in a wc.

[Dragonman]

This was posted on the Message Board of a Pattaya oriented website. I know the poster concerned: he is associated with a local Thai lawyer:

"the way it is at the moment is that you can not transfer any land into a thai company that has any form of ferang ownership whether it be shareholder or director.All you do is transfer the shares to 7 thai people and get the sharetransfer documents signed and resold back to you (so they cant do anything bad in the company) You then have a thai company 100% owned by thais but you have the papers they need to control the company so they cant do anything. Go to the land office and transfer the land into the 100% thai company then the following day go to company house and transfer back 49% of the shares to yourself. The law does not state you can not have property in a thai company that is not 100% thai but the land office state they will not transfer land into any company that is not 100% thai owned so thats the way around it. Anyone who has a house in a company that is 49% ferang owned before the middle of may has nothing to worry about the law in thailand can not be back dated so they cant take your house from you."

All of these legal loopholes can be changed in days. With elections coming up in October. I will personally be voting for the party that wants to reclaim Thailand back for the Thai people. I am not the only Thai person sick of seeing farangs buying real estate for speculation so they can sell it back to Thais at a higher price. It's pretty obvious to anyone who compares Phuket to any other parts of Thailand.

These are not loopholes, they could be part of a fraud, or at best Criminal Deception. Anyone who deals with Lawyers or Realtors who suggest such, deserves what he gets.

"Laws cannot be backdated" Give us a break!

[thaigene2]

All of these legal loopholes can be changed in days. With elections coming up in October. I will personally be voting for the party that wants to reclaim Thailand back for the Thai people. I am not the only Thai person sick of seeing farangs buying real estate for speculation so they can sell it back to Thais at a higher price. It's pretty obvious to anyone who compares Phuket to any other parts of Thailand.

Thaible,

Would it be okay if a Thai-Chinese family was doing exactly the same thing? Think I know one who has a Khunying before her name and is heavily into this practice. Ever wonder how some of these Thai-Chin families acquired their land holdings in the first place? How many managed to buy while still Chinese (e.g. not yet Thai)?

While we're at it, I'm married to a Thai, have two Thai-Farang kids born here. I'm the sole bread-winner, three of the four members of my family sing the Thai national anthem every day at 6pm but their father can't buy a family home for them, nor get a mortage to do so, etc..

Vote for whomever you want mate..most farangs just want to own a family home - jointly with their wife - which will eventually end ujp with their kids anyway..or does it bother you to thai-farangs challenge the thai-chinese for property??

[Mobi]

I have a smeaking suspicion that Khun Thaible is winding all you good gentlemen up.

If he's not, and represents "middle of the road', educated, Thai opinion, then farangs will be allowed to own a piece of Thai land when H-ell freezes over.

[Anon999]

I'm not sure if Thaible is winding everyone up not. If so he's been doing a brilliant job. However, if he's serious the he's talking out of his fundamental orifice.

For a start the Thais living in the UK would be really pleased to find out they can no longer own their expensive land or their companies, if that was imposed in the UK. Not to mention all the other closed mind thoughts that have been expressed.

Maybe he can enlighten us all on what his real agenda is, bearing in mind that Thais do not own the majority of the wealth and much of the land in Thailand, it's owned by the Chinese. Many of those having been welcomed by Thailand in the days of Mao and who subsequently changed their Chinese name to a Thai name. However, I won't hold my breath waiting for an answer that is either constructive or logical.

Edited June 13, 2006 by Anon999

[Thaible]

It's pretty obvious that Thais want Thailand to stay with its own people.

Otherwise, these Thai-majority ownership laws would not even exist in the first place, and farangs would not have to find legal loopholes to explolit in order to own land. I'm shocked that so many people are surprised about me stating the obvious.

But feel free to ignore me and keep buying land at your own risk. If you think I do not represent the majority, feel free to ask the millions of Thais surrounding you that are not real estate developers what they think. Oh yea, that excludes the relatives of your Thai wife whom will never tell you the truth.

These legal loopholes will eventually be closed. It's a matter of when, not if. All a politician running for office has to do is show the public the average Phuket property price versus the rest of Thailand, and watch how fast they will win the election.

Edited June 13, 2006 by Thaible

[rcav8r]

farangs would not have to find legal loopholes to explolit in order to own land.

You may be right in everything you say - but one thing doesn't sound right - your statement above that farangs look for loopholes. That suggests that "all" farangs are dodgy whereas I would counter your statement in that it is some dodgy Thais - some lawyers and other advisors - who point most farangs in that direction (what did farangs know about Thai land laws ? - until now - everyone in the world seems to know that land in Thailand can be bought via these "loopholes".

[BlackJack]

It's pretty obvious that Thais want Thailand to stay with its own people.

Otherwise, these Thai-majority ownership laws would not even exist in the first place, and farangs would not have to find legal loopholes to explolit in order to own land. I'm shocked that so many people are surprised about me stating the obvious.

But feel free to ignore me and keep buying land at your own risk. If you think I do not represent the majority, feel free to ask the millions of Thais surrounding you that are not real estate developers what they think. Oh yea, that excludes the relatives of your Thai wife whom will never tell you the truth.

These legal loopholes will eventually be closed. It's a matter of when, not if. All a politician running for office has to do is show the public the average Phuket property price versus the rest of Thailand, and watch how fast they will win the election.

So are you saying that thai's are really chinese and indians as they own all the prime real estate in Thailand

[Steph1012]

He's not winding anyone up really. Most of us are sat here listening to the world cup as the might of UBC cannot put the world cup on despite charging 7 times the price of cable tv, who are putting it on.

I was here 20 years ago and didn't see Thais of any walk of life (other than locals and chinese speculators) wanting to live on Phuket. Can you really see any development having taken place without foreigners? and why wasn't there any development here 10-15 years ago.

The island could still be a backwater without all the foreign investment and Phuket covered in rubber trees. Thailble and his like would have received an even worse education than they did leaving them even more ignorant and would never have the chance to spread their bizarre thoughts further than a few local rubber tappers or fishermen. He certainly wouldn't have had a computer (to go with not having a girlfriend!)

You've seen it said before, most of the money in this country is in 2nd or subsequent generation Chinese hands. The Chinese who just wanderd in over the centuries, blended in and got on with it, became "Thai" and took the country over by stealth.

They (The Chinese) don't want the falangs shafting them in the same way, thats why they mobilise poor Thais to vote them into power by scaring them with stories of foreigners.

[ovenman]

All a politician running for office has to do is show the public the average Phuket property price versus the rest of Thailand, and watch how fast they will win the election.

Honestly, if it's that simple you should bottle your idea and sell it to TRT or the Democrats. Just think of all the money that party could save on individual votes by simply adopting your strategy and pointing out how farang have made the average property values in Phuket soar.

As I said above, one-issue candidates are always entertaining...

[highdiver]

But feel free to ignore me and keep buying land at your own risk. If you think I do not represent the majority, feel free to ask the millions of Thais surrounding you that are not real estate developers what they think. Oh yea, that excludes the relatives of your Thai wife whom will never tell you the truth.

These legal loopholes will eventually be closed. It's a matter of when, not if. All a politician running for office has to do is show the public the average Phuket property price versus the rest of Thailand, and watch how fast they will win the election.

Thats an intresting observation.

I would recomend to the oppsition of "your politician" to show the public the average Phuket property price versus the rest of Thailand and the prices in Samui and explain to the public that if in power he will change the law to allow full ownership to Farrangs and then everyone in thailand can join the get rich program.

further more he can present the fact that some Thai people who are very concerned about Thailand for Thai are the ones who stand most to loose and would like to stay in power so as other Thai people dont have a fare chance to gain capital. and watch how fast they will win the election.

A few months back the law (yes a real law) concerning Thai comunications to be held by Thai only, (as it is in the interest of the country to maintain controll of comunications) was changed....

And some people made a realy big income and did not even pay tax. And these people said that they only what is best for thailand..... yeh right!!!!

[walterthai]

we all need to stop investing in thailand. why should we as foreigners settle for 49% of ownership anyway when 100% of the money is ours. my wife can own land and a house in the united states 100%. i will not be investing another dime here. i will just live here and save my money now. and yes i own land and a house here in my wifes name. we have been together 11 years and believe it or not she is 4 years older then me. save your money and find a country that allows 100% ownership and when we start to retire and bring our money to a different country you will see things change and then it will be too late for thailand. if anyone knows of countrys that allow 100% ownership in asia for foreigners let us all know. time to start another boom somewhere else and watch the market here go bust. i do feel bad for everyone that is getting screwed, i hope you all can sell quickly to a thai. and no i would not buy a condo here. i do not believe the law for condos will stay the way it is. it will change also.

Farangs that buy real estate do not "invest" in Thailand, they molest it. Real estate is a NON-PRODUCTIVE asset.

The ONLY reason you need to buy vs rent is to sell it to a Thai at a higher price than they woud have paid otherwise.

Excuse me - so my Thai wife and I should not be allowed to buy our home our house the place we bring up our child and then later let our child have it for her own children- grow up and start living in the real world or do you want Thailand to stay undeveloped, poor etc - i bet your a rich Thai who could nopt care less about your fellow poor thais unlike the wonderful normal Thais who livein our village (all quite poor but most happy to have me as a forang amongst them with my Thai wife)