Investment Funds

[Aldebaran1981]

Dear All,

What are the investment funds in Thailand that are worth investing in?

I'm looking into Govt bonds as well as Gold

Are these 2 worth my time at all?

Returns on both instruments?

Am more into gold as I feel that gold is currently at a relatively low price now and worth investing in for the long term?

However, I don't have much though, maybe around 1 million baht only.

Feedback most appreciated!

[fletchsmile]

For Thai govt bonds, the yields aren't that great, and the charges eat into returns if you buy funds.

For Gold: MFC Gold and TMB Gold are two funds that I hold. The first has the ability to hedge FX the second doesn't. It's cheaper to buy a gold ETF offshore with lower charges so that's another option. eg I also hold IAU:US traded on NYSE and PHAU:LN on London stock exchange. The trading times are different. On the other hand MFC and Gold can be convenient for someone living here. They're slightly more expensive on fees than ETFs, but it means for example my wife (Thai) could just walk into the bank or asset management company and buy/sell given I put some in her name and the kids. Plus you're not worrying about cross border transfers and fees to get your money here when you want it.

Other funds to consider: Look into Thai equity funds. In particular "Long term Equity Funds" (LTFs). You can get tax relief on these if you're a tax payer up to your marginal rate of tax on the lower of THB 500k or 15% of your income. So if a 35% taxpayer your 500k effectively costs 325k with the tax benefit to cushion against volatility. Aberdeen LTF, UOB/ING Thai Good Governance are good active managed funds that consistently beat the index, say 8 years in 10. This mounts up over 5/10 year time frames. In addition to the tax benefit you're diversifying your portfolio. There are also mixed gov/bond equity LTFs with say 70% equities 30% gov bonds if you're not comfortable with pure equity. This effectively gets you tax relief on your gov bonds.

For diversifying further you could look at property funds. These are usually traded on exchanges more like shares in Thailand than unit trusts. Some good yields, but bear in mind some are also returning capital. UOB/ING do some. Google Major property funds.

After that there is a reasonable range of other funds pretty much like the basic funds elsewhere, eg Emerging Markets, US, Europe, World (Aberdeen have a good range) Stay away from the US equity actively managed fund its performance is consistently below average and you might be better buying a low cost ETF/tracker if you really want US exposure.

For other bonds: Aberdeen Emerging Opportunitie Bond Fund is worth considering. Basically EM bonds but more potential for higher returns than just Thai gov bonds

There are also Thai corporate bond funds, eg TMB Corporate Bond Fund. It's marginal whether after fees you're much better than cash

For general info the Morningstar Thailand website is useful:

http://tools.morningstarthailand.com/th/fundquickrank/default.aspx?Site=th&LanguageId=en-TH

Cheers

Fletch

[fatdrunkandstupid]

For Thai govt bonds, the yields aren't that great, and the charges eat into returns if you buy funds.

For Gold: MFC Gold and TMB Gold are two funds that I hold. The first has the ability to hedge FX the second doesn't. It's cheaper to buy a gold ETF offshore with lower charges so that's another option. eg I also hold IAU:US traded on NYSE and PHAU:LN on London stock exchange. The trading times are different. On the other hand MFC and Gold can be convenient for someone living here. They're slightly more expensive on fees than ETFs, but it means for example my wife (Thai) could just walk into the bank or asset management company and buy/sell given I put some in her name and the kids. Plus you're not worrying about cross border transfers and fees to get your money here when you want it.

Other funds to consider: Look into Thai equity funds. In particular "Long term Equity Funds" (LTFs). You can get tax relief on these if you're a tax payer up to your marginal rate of tax on the lower of THB 500k or 15% of your income. So if a 35% taxpayer your 500k effectively costs 325k with the tax benefit to cushion against volatility. Aberdeen LTF, UOB/ING Thai Good Governance are good active managed funds that consistently beat the index, say 8 years in 10. This mounts up over 5/10 year time frames. In addition to the tax benefit you're diversifying your portfolio. There are also mixed gov/bond equity LTFs with say 70% equities 30% gov bonds if you're not comfortable with pure equity. This effectively gets you tax relief on your gov bonds.

For diversifying further you could look at property funds. These are usually traded on exchanges more like shares in Thailand than unit trusts. Some good yields, but bear in mind some are also returning capital. UOB/ING do some. Google Major property funds.

After that there is a reasonable range of other funds pretty much like the basic funds elsewhere, eg Emerging Markets, US, Europe, World (Aberdeen have a good range) Stay away from the US equity actively managed fund its performance is consistently below average and you might be better buying a low cost ETF/tracker if you really want US exposure.

For other bonds: Aberdeen Emerging Opportunitie Bond Fund is worth considering. Basically EM bonds but more potential for higher returns than just Thai gov bonds

There are also Thai corporate bond funds, eg TMB Corporate Bond Fund. It's marginal whether after fees you're much better than cash

For general info the Morningstar Thailand website is useful:

http://tools.morningstarthailand.com/th/fundquickrank/default.aspx?Site=th&LanguageId=en-TH

Cheers

Fletch

Sigh...

[Naam]

Gentlemen,

may i suggest heavy sabers sunday morning at dawn on the lawn of my front garden?

i will provide refreshments, hard drinks and Thai food delicacies and my gardener will dress wounds and amputate limbs (if need be).

[fletchsmile]

For Thai govt bonds, the yields aren't that great, and the charges eat into returns if you buy funds.

For Gold: MFC Gold and TMB Gold are two funds that I hold. The first has the ability to hedge FX the second doesn't. It's cheaper to buy a gold ETF offshore with lower charges so that's another option. eg I also hold IAU:US traded on NYSE and PHAU:LN on London stock exchange. The trading times are different. On the other hand MFC and Gold can be convenient for someone living here. They're slightly more expensive on fees than ETFs, but it means for example my wife (Thai) could just walk into the bank or asset management company and buy/sell given I put some in her name and the kids. Plus you're not worrying about cross border transfers and fees to get your money here when you want it.

Other funds to consider: Look into Thai equity funds. In particular "Long term Equity Funds" (LTFs). You can get tax relief on these if you're a tax payer up to your marginal rate of tax on the lower of THB 500k or 15% of your income. So if a 35% taxpayer your 500k effectively costs 325k with the tax benefit to cushion against volatility. Aberdeen LTF, UOB/ING Thai Good Governance are good active managed funds that consistently beat the index, say 8 years in 10. This mounts up over 5/10 year time frames. In addition to the tax benefit you're diversifying your portfolio. There are also mixed gov/bond equity LTFs with say 70% equities 30% gov bonds if you're not comfortable with pure equity. This effectively gets you tax relief on your gov bonds.

For diversifying further you could look at property funds. These are usually traded on exchanges more like shares in Thailand than unit trusts. Some good yields, but bear in mind some are also returning capital. UOB/ING do some. Google Major property funds.

After that there is a reasonable range of other funds pretty much like the basic funds elsewhere, eg Emerging Markets, US, Europe, World (Aberdeen have a good range) Stay away from the US equity actively managed fund its performance is consistently below average and you might be better buying a low cost ETF/tracker if you really want US exposure.

For other bonds: Aberdeen Emerging Opportunitie Bond Fund is worth considering. Basically EM bonds but more potential for higher returns than just Thai gov bonds

There are also Thai corporate bond funds, eg TMB Corporate Bond Fund. It's marginal whether after fees you're much better than cash

For general info the Morningstar Thailand website is useful:

http://tools.morningstarthailand.com/th/fundquickrank/default.aspx?Site=th&LanguageId=en-TH

Cheers

Fletch

Sigh...

And your answer to help out OP with the specific question was....

Sent from my GT-I9152 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[fletchsmile]

Gentlemen,

may i suggest heavy sabers sunday morning at dawn on the lawn of my front garden?

i will provide refreshments, hard drinks and Thai food delicacies and my gardener will dress wounds and amputate limbs (if need be).

As much as I d enjoy your company Naam I dont think youd compensate for the company of Fat Drunk and Stupid.

The guy obviously has issues...

Sent from my GT-I9152 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Naam]

Gentlemen,

may i suggest heavy sabers sunday morning at dawn on the lawn of my front garden?

i will provide refreshments, hard drinks and Thai food delicacies and my gardener will dress wounds and amputate limbs (if need be).

As much as I d enjoy your company Naam I dont think youd compensate for the company of Fat Drunk and Stupid.

The guy obviously has issues...

Sent from my GT-I9152 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

i suggest a cooling-off period and a glass (or two) of Klingon blood wine

[thecynic]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

For Thai govt bonds, the yields aren't that great, and the charges eat into returns if you buy funds.

For Gold: MFC Gold and TMB Gold are two funds that I hold. The first has the ability to hedge FX the second doesn't. It's cheaper to buy a gold ETF offshore with lower charges so that's another option. eg I also hold IAU:US traded on NYSE and PHAU:LN on London stock exchange. The trading times are different. On the other hand MFC and Gold can be convenient for someone living here. They're slightly more expensive on fees than ETFs, but it means for example my wife (Thai) could just walk into the bank or asset management company and buy/sell given I put some in her name and the kids. Plus you're not worrying about cross border transfers and fees to get your money here when you want it.

Other funds to consider: Look into Thai equity funds. In particular "Long term Equity Funds" (LTFs). You can get tax relief on these if you're a tax payer up to your marginal rate of tax on the lower of THB 500k or 15% of your income. So if a 35% taxpayer your 500k effectively costs 325k with the tax benefit to cushion against volatility. Aberdeen LTF, UOB/ING Thai Good Governance are good active managed funds that consistently beat the index, say 8 years in 10. This mounts up over 5/10 year time frames. In addition to the tax benefit you're diversifying your portfolio. There are also mixed gov/bond equity LTFs with say 70% equities 30% gov bonds if you're not comfortable with pure equity. This effectively gets you tax relief on your gov bonds.

For diversifying further you could look at property funds. These are usually traded on exchanges more like shares in Thailand than unit trusts. Some good yields, but bear in mind some are also returning capital. UOB/ING do some. Google Major property funds.

After that there is a reasonable range of other funds pretty much like the basic funds elsewhere, eg Emerging Markets, US, Europe, World (Aberdeen have a good range) Stay away from the US equity actively managed fund its performance is consistently below average and you might be better buying a low cost ETF/tracker if you really want US exposure.

For other bonds: Aberdeen Emerging Opportunitie Bond Fund is worth considering. Basically EM bonds but more potential for higher returns than just Thai gov bonds

There are also Thai corporate bond funds, eg TMB Corporate Bond Fund. It's marginal whether after fees you're much better than cash

For general info the Morningstar Thailand website is useful:

http://tools.morningstarthailand.com/th/fundquickrank/default.aspx?Site=th&LanguageId=en-TH

Cheers

Fletch

Hey Fletch,

That's great info. I am also looking to invest into some LTFs and Aberdeen and UOB look good. Had a question though, what platform do you use for buying them? I want to be able to do it online every month.

Cheers

[al007]

Maybe try ishares thailand TMD, low costs, as for brokers I use Interactive Brokers probably the lowest cost per deal of any

A word of caution, the thailand economy could be risky over the next few years, borrowings are too high and world opinion is not good

Be lucky

Al

[goatfarmer]

I assume that, by the term 'invest', you mean buy and hold for many years.

Most funds will charge you management fees that will eat up a good third of your profits in the long run. Avoid them. They take advantage of the innumerate.

Gold is a speculation, not an investment. Go ahead and gamble away your assets if you wish. I prefer horses.

The etf, TCAP, listed on the SET is the only Thai fund I would recommend investing in. It tracks the SET50, that is, the 50 largest capitalized companies on the SET. Its management fees are modest and the commission to buy and sell was, last time I looked, less than that of an ordinary stock. However, the dividends don't always track the underlying portfolio. If you can understand rudimentary valuation principles, I would suggest buying ten of the best dividend paying stocks from the top 50 and sit on them, reinvesting dividends. However, if you can't be bothered to do that, go for TCAP, reinvest the dividends and discover the magic of compounding.

[HerbalEd]

OP, re. your statement "... I feel that gold is currently at a relatively low price now ...." Not really. You should google the history of the price of gold before making a decision.

[ezzra]

Gentlemen,

may i suggest heavy sabers sunday morning at dawn on the lawn of my front garden?

i will provide refreshments, hard drinks and Thai food delicacies and my gardener will dress wounds and amputate limbs (if need be).

As much as I d enjoy your company Naam I dont think youd compensate for the company of Fat Drunk and Stupid.

The guy obviously has issues...

Sent from my GT-I9152 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I can reluctantly agree with caricature assassination word, but why the jibs about the size of his girth?

why? are your physical attributes all perfect with no blemish to poke hurtful words at?

[max72]

A friend of mine is doing well with the stock of Laotian electric company.

They have lots of projects to exploit hydroelectrical power and they are selling energy to other countries including Thailand.

Since Laos has state monopoly, the company is quite solid with no risks of competition.

It gives a fat dividend of about 10% a year and it is traded in the SET.

Worth checking.

[khunPer]

Banks like Bangkok Bank, SCB, Kasikorn and others have a so-called Fund Book account, where you can invest in a portfolio of bonds mixed with government bonds. The outcome is the raise of the fund price (value) and that is around 3 per cent annual. To gain profit you sell some. There is no withholding tax on Fund Books.

[fletchsmile]

I can reluctantly agree with caricature assassination word, but why the jibs about the size of his girth?

why? are your physical attributes all perfect with no blemish to poke hurtful words at?

Dont worry. Nothing sizeist in there. I d quite happily use the words "thin drunk and stupid" if that s how someone describe themselves and acts

Yes I have my fair share of imperfections and blemishes too. I just choose not to use them in my username and avatar

I d rather try and think positively:

Cheers

"Fletch" + "Smile"

Sent from my GT-I9152 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[fatdrunkandstupid]

I assume that, by the term 'invest', you mean buy and hold for many years.

Most funds will charge you management fees that will eat up a good third of your profits in the long run. Avoid them. They take advantage of the innumerate.

Gold is a speculation, not an investment. Go ahead and gamble away your assets if you wish. I prefer horses.

The etf, TCAP, listed on the SET is the only Thai fund I would recommend investing in. It tracks the SET50, that is, the 50 largest capitalized companies on the SET. Its management fees are modest and the commission to buy and sell was, last time I looked, less than that of an ordinary stock. However, the dividends don't always track the underlying portfolio. If you can understand rudimentary valuation principles, I would suggest buying ten of the best dividend paying stocks from the top 50 and sit on them, reinvesting dividends. However, if you can't be bothered to do that, go for TCAP, reinvest the dividends and discover the magic of compounding.

You better stick to farming goats.

TCAP is not an ETF it is a financials company that provides the following ridiculous description for its operations:

-------------------------------------------------------------------

The Company is the holding company as a parent company of Thanachart Financial Conglomerate which is classified its companies by their type of business into two groups: (1) financial business group comprised of comercial bank, securities business, fund management, life & non-life insurance, and leasing business and (2) supporting business group comprised of legal&appriasal service, broker of hire puchase, training service.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

You were referring to TDEX which is the ETF listed on the SET that tracks the SET50. However, TDEX is a sucker bet for farang investors as it is not possible to buy a NVDR parcel. So as a foreigner you can hold this stock but NOT receive any of its dividends.

Edited March 13, 2014 by fatdrunkandstupid

[fatdrunkandstupid]

A friend of mine is doing well with the stock of Laotian electric company.

They have lots of projects to exploit hydroelectrical power and they are selling energy to other countries including Thailand.

Since Laos has state monopoly, the company is quite solid with no risks of competition.

It gives a fat dividend of about 10% a year and it is traded in the SET.

Worth checking.

And the SET stock code is.......?

[Oxpilot]

Thai Fund symbol TTF has taken a dramatic drop from 26 last year to about 10.75 currently based, I believe on the troubles in BKK.

By Friday Jan 31 the price had deteriorated to 17.75. On the next day of trading Mon Feb 3 it crashed to 9.75. Which had to be another fund pulling out.

Depending on your ability to take some risk, and if you think Thailand will recover some day, which I do, it seems possibility for you. For those about to say that with only one million baht he can't afford any risk, I say there is no investment without risk. Security is a myth, it does not exist in nature. There are only different degrees of risk.

[goatfarmer]

I assume that, by the term 'invest', you mean buy and hold for many years.

Most funds will charge you management fees that will eat up a good third of your profits in the long run. Avoid them. They take advantage of the innumerate.

Gold is a speculation, not an investment. Go ahead and gamble away your assets if you wish. I prefer horses.

The etf, TCAP, listed on the SET is the only Thai fund I would recommend investing in. It tracks the SET50, that is, the 50 largest capitalized companies on the SET. Its management fees are modest and the commission to buy and sell was, last time I looked, less than that of an ordinary stock. However, the dividends don't always track the underlying portfolio. If you can understand rudimentary valuation principles, I would suggest buying ten of the best dividend paying stocks from the top 50 and sit on them, reinvesting dividends. However, if you can't be bothered to do that, go for TCAP, reinvest the dividends and discover the magic of compounding.

You better stick to farming goats.

TCAP is not an ETF it is a financials company that provides the following ridiculous description for its operations:

-------------------------------------------------------------------

The Company is the holding company as a parent company of Thanachart Financial Conglomerate which is classified its companies by their type of business into two groups: (1) financial business group comprised of comercial bank, securities business, fund management, life & non-life insurance, and leasing business and (2) supporting business group comprised of legal&appriasal service, broker of hire puchase, training service.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

You were referring to TDEX which is the ETF listed on the SET that tracks the SET50. However, TDEX is a sucker bet for farang investors as it is not possible to buy a NVDR parcel. So as a foreigner you can hold this stock but NOT receive any of its dividends.

Thank you for the correction and the gratuitous advice. You are quite right, I am referring to TDEX, not TCAP. (Yes, it's been a few years since I owned TDEX. Tthis, Tthat.)

Contrary to your suggestion I have owned TDEX and received dividends from it, however, I ditched it when comparing the dividends to the underlying portfolio.

(I could tell you what you might be better sticking to. But then, I'm too polite. )

Edited March 13, 2014 by goatfarmer

[fatdrunkandstupid]

Fletch

Perhaps you can fire off one or two thousand words for goatfarmer on how he should diversify into lamas in Argentina and Yaks in Nepal to diversify his agriculture portfolio and hedge against local currency risks.

[fatdrunkandstupid]

I assume that, by the term 'invest', you mean buy and hold for many years.

Most funds will charge you management fees that will eat up a good third of your profits in the long run. Avoid them. They take advantage of the innumerate.

Gold is a speculation, not an investment. Go ahead and gamble away your assets if you wish. I prefer horses.

The etf, TCAP, listed on the SET is the only Thai fund I would recommend investing in. It tracks the SET50, that is, the 50 largest capitalized companies on the SET. Its management fees are modest and the commission to buy and sell was, last time I looked, less than that of an ordinary stock. However, the dividends don't always track the underlying portfolio. If you can understand rudimentary valuation principles, I would suggest buying ten of the best dividend paying stocks from the top 50 and sit on them, reinvesting dividends. However, if you can't be bothered to do that, go for TCAP, reinvest the dividends and discover the magic of compounding.

You better stick to farming goats.

TCAP is not an ETF it is a financials company that provides the following ridiculous description for its operations:

-------------------------------------------------------------------

The Company is the holding company as a parent company of Thanachart Financial Conglomerate which is classified its companies by their type of business into two groups: (1) financial business group comprised of comercial bank, securities business, fund management, life & non-life insurance, and leasing business and (2) supporting business group comprised of legal&appriasal service, broker of hire puchase, training service.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

You were referring to TDEX which is the ETF listed on the SET that tracks the SET50. However, TDEX is a sucker bet for farang investors as it is not possible to buy a NVDR parcel. So as a foreigner you can hold this stock but NOT receive any of its dividends.

Thank you for the correction. You are quite right, I am referring to TDEX, not TCAP. (Yes, it's been a few years since I owned TDEX. Tthis, Tthat.)

Contrary to your suggestion I have owned TDEX and received dividends from it, however, I ditched it when comparing the dividends to the underlying portfolio.

(I could tell you what you might be better sticking to. But then, I'm too polite. )

No you haven't. Maybe you traded on your Thai girl's account. But if it was a farang account you cannot buy a NVDR parcel of TDEX.

Please don't make me post a screenshot to prove you wrong.

[seb2015]

Just want do drop in to thank Fletchsmile and Naam for their valuable advices here and on several other threads related to investment.

I was actually planning to check Aberdeen and their LTF , and I assume that you have to open a savings account at least when you register to the fund.

I'm also interested in fixed income funds which i think shall do better than cash on the short term (several months) provided the fees are relatively low if not free, but I wonder if the recent decrease of THB interest rate by the central bank might impact their perf in the coming months

.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[JacChang]

For bonds you can go with mutual funds, I personally use Kasikornbank. Just walk in and let them know you would like to open a mutual funds account with online service. After that you can easily buy/sell funds anytime you wish from your computer. I have k-money right now, it provided 3% returns the past year, recently however roughly 2-2.5%. No front end fees or anything. You put 1 million in, you get 1,020,000+ when you redeem it a year later. It totally replaces the traditional people who still put in time deposits. Those are a joke. With k-money, you can redeem anytime you want, and the money comes in on the next day. Let's say you would like to put it in for a week, you will not get a crap 1% time deposit rate for 1 week, instead you will still benefit from the 2-2.5% rate even if you put it in for a week. I dont let any free money lie around doing nothing, everything that does not get used, gets thrown in there without any thoughts.

Gold, definitely stay away from mutual funds. You dont need a fund manager for that to be actively managed. Open a stock broker account and buy gold etfs. There are atleast 6 etfs related to gold that is managed by different banks. To name a few GLD, KG965, GOLD99, TGOLDETF. It's very simple, 3 brokers I would recomment in terms of English service and top notch platforms (speed/stability) are Phatra, KGI, MBKET. Log in online, put down an order for any of the etfs I have mentioned and voila, you own gold. The value 'should' follow the international gold prices and so on. As someone mentioned, gold is not an investment. It's simply a hedge. It doesn't provide income or grow in real value by itself. The price goes up when stocks have failed, bonds have failed, and it's the last resort. It's a behavioral asset. When the mass of investors retreat from stocks and bonds, there's only one place to go, and that is gold. Gold will be the top performer when others have failed. We have seen the drop in recent years, however I am confident to say, now is the time to buy, from the technical charts, the bear is over. Total portfolio size reserved for gold should only be about 3-10%, not more.

And please dont get asset allocated balanced funds (Stocks and bonds combined). Trust me, you'll do better if you buy your own 60% stocks mutual fund, and 40% bond fund. A balanced fund will charge you roughly 1.5-2% management fee to manage your stocks (which is fine) AND your bonds (Which is absurd). Why would you want to pay a fee of 2% so that manager can buy a 3-4% 10 yr bond for you? Dont do it. Buy individual stock mutual fund, and then buy individual bond fund (less than 1% management fee for the manager to buy you a 3-4% 10 yr bond). Try it, take ANY stock mutual fund and a bond fund and add them up divide by 2. That performance is GUARANTEED to be better than a so called asset allocation fund.

BTSGIF infrastructure fund. One of my larger holdings too, gives quarterly dividends. About 7-9% yields per year, inflation proof, recession proof? Solid.

Edited March 13, 2014 by JacChang

[fletchsmile]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Hey Fletch,

That's great info. I am also looking to invest into some LTFs and Aberdeen and UOB look good. Had a question though, what platform do you use for buying them? I want to be able to do it online every month.

Cheers

I also prefer buying online, and outside of Thailand don't consider anything else.

In Thailand though, as I always get told "we do things differently here" I don't use an online platform for buying mutual funds. I buy thru Stan Chart. They send a messenger with the forms all filled in. I sign and a messenger picks them up. Main reasons are:

- When I started in Thailand about 16 years ago no-one had online for this, so historic and a bit lazy to change

- Buying thru the bank it counts to my Priority Banking status for other perks and maintains a relationship, as I do other things at the same time and they let me know other things happening, plus they'll keep forms etc if I'm out of the country

- Easy to do for the wife and kids at the same time without multiple logins. Plus easy for the wife to go to the relationship manager if anything happens to me

- You can buy from multiple fund houses all consolidated under the same umbrella.

All in all good service

You could go direct to Aberdeen for their online platform, and most fund management houses do. As people mention above their are some good/ easy routes. For the local banks, eg Bangkok Bank, TMB, Krungthai they offer a more limited fund range and tend to sell mainly their assets management subsidiaries. So you'll end up with multiple logins in different systems, but then again online is easier in some ways.

Cheers

Fletch

[fletchsmile]

I assume that, by the term 'invest', you mean buy and hold for many years.

Most funds will charge you management fees that will eat up a good third of your profits in the long run. Avoid them. They take advantage of the innumerate.

Gold is a speculation, not an investment. Go ahead and gamble away your assets if you wish. I prefer horses.

The etf, TCAP, listed on the SET is the only Thai fund I would recommend investing in. It tracks the SET50, that is, the 50 largest capitalized companies on the SET. Its management fees are modest and the commission to buy and sell was, last time I looked, less than that of an ordinary stock. However, the dividends don't always track the underlying portfolio. If you can understand rudimentary valuation principles, I would suggest buying ten of the best dividend paying stocks from the top 50 and sit on them, reinvesting dividends. However, if you can't be bothered to do that, go for TCAP, reinvest the dividends and discover the magic of compounding.

You better stick to farming goats.

TCAP is not an ETF it is a financials company that provides the following ridiculous description for its operations:

-------------------------------------------------------------------

The Company is the holding company as a parent company of Thanachart Financial Conglomerate which is classified its companies by their type of business into two groups: (1) financial business group comprised of comercial bank, securities business, fund management, life & non-life insurance, and leasing business and (2) supporting business group comprised of legal&appriasal service, broker of hire puchase, training service.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

You were referring to TDEX which is the ETF listed on the SET that tracks the SET50. However, TDEX is a sucker bet for farang investors as it is not possible to buy a NVDR parcel. So as a foreigner you can hold this stock but NOT receive any of its dividends.

Thank you for the correction. You are quite right, I am referring to TDEX, not TCAP. (Yes, it's been a few years since I owned TDEX. Tthis, Tthat.)

Contrary to your suggestion I have owned TDEX and received dividends from it, however, I ditched it when comparing the dividends to the underlying portfolio.

(I could tell you what you might be better sticking to. But then, I'm too polite. )

No you haven't. Maybe you traded on your Thai girl's account. But if it was a farang account you cannot buy a NVDR parcel of TDEX.

Please don't make me post a screenshot to prove you wrong.

You don't need NVDRs for these ETFs. There is no foreign ownership limit either.

"Investment in TDEX are exempt from the restriction on investors holding more than one-third of the total number of investment units in a mutual fund. There is no limit on foreign investment in TDEX units."

http://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=2b83547d-bc1c-4d70-a916-138af2ef317b

Also if you check out the SET page you can see the foreign ownership limit is shown as 100%, compared to if you look up the tickers for most other Thai stocks it will show say 49%

http://www.set.or.th/set/companyprofile.do?symbol=TDEX&language=en&country=US

Plus Credit Swiss AG own 7%+

So if goatfarmer says he has been getting divs he no doubt has.

[fletchsmile]

For bonds you can go with mutual funds, I personally use Kasikornbank. Just walk in and let them know you would like to open a mutual funds account with online service. After that you can easily buy/sell funds anytime you wish from your computer. I have k-money right now, it provided 3% returns the past year, recently however roughly 2-2.5%. No front end fees or anything. You put 1 million in, you get 1,020,000+ when you redeem it a year later. It totally replaces the traditional people who still put in time deposits. Those are a joke. With k-money, you can redeem anytime you want, and the money comes in on the next day. Let's say you would like to put it in for a week, you will not get a crap 1% time deposit rate for 1 week, instead you will still benefit from the 2-2.5% rate even if you put it in for a week. I dont let any free money lie around doing nothing, everything that does not get used, gets thrown in there without any thoughts.

Gold, definitely stay away from mutual funds. You dont need a fund manager for that to be actively managed. Open a stock broker account and buy gold etfs. There are atleast 6 etfs related to gold that is managed by different banks. To name a few GLD, KG965, GOLD99, TGOLDETF. It's very simple, 3 brokers I would recomment in terms of English service and top notch platforms (speed/stability) are Phatra, KGI, MBKET. Log in online, put down an order for any of the etfs I have mentioned and voila, you own gold. The value 'should' follow the international gold prices and so on. As someone mentioned, gold is not an investment. It's simply a hedge. It doesn't provide income or grow in real value by itself. The price goes up when stocks have failed, bonds have failed, and it's the last resort. It's a behavioral asset. When the mass of investors retreat from stocks and bonds, there's only one place to go, and that is gold. Gold will be the top performer when others have failed. We have seen the drop in recent years, however I am confident to say, now is the time to buy, from the technical charts, the bear is over. Total portfolio size reserved for gold should only be about 3-10%, not more.

And please dont get asset allocated balanced funds (Stocks and bonds combined). Trust me, you'll do better if you buy your own 60% stocks mutual fund, and 40% bond fund. A balanced fund will charge you roughly 1.5-2% management fee to manage your stocks (which is fine) AND your bonds (Which is absurd). Why would you want to pay a fee of 2% so that manager can buy a 3-4% 10 yr bond for you? Dont do it. Buy individual stock mutual fund, and then buy individual bond fund (less than 1% management fee for the manager to buy you a 3-4% 10 yr bond). Try it, take ANY stock mutual fund and a bond fund and add them up divide by 2. That performance is GUARANTEED to be better than a so called asset allocation fund.

BTSGIF infrastructure fund. One of my larger holdings too, gives quarterly dividends. About 7-9% yields per year, inflation proof, recession proof? Solid.

A lot of good points Jac

I agree with you that usually it's better to buy a separate equity fund and a separate fixed income fund. The main quirk I came across is as mentioned Long Term Equity Funds. You can't get the tax relief on the Thai fixed income in an LTF as they are supposed to be mainly equity. So if someone wanted say THB 350k in Thai equity and they were also interested in fixed income of say THB 150k it pays to combine them in a 70/30 LTF as you can then get up to 35% tax relief on the bonds thrown in for free.

i.e buy separate you can only get 35% tax relief on 350 equities, but combine the two in one fund and you can get 35% tax relief on 500. The 35% tax relief on the extra 150k bonds outweighs getting stitched by 1% on the charges. Doesn't happen in many cases though, and if you're buying over the max limit in equities alone not worth it either.

BTW Why do you have 3 brokers here? I also use KGI and have been very happy with them. What do the other two add to the mix?

Cheers

Fletch

[anon11]

KEEP your money in yoir own country you would have little if any come back should things go wrong here it's just how it is and all those who say you should invest in this or that COULD may HAVE an interest in that particular company.

THailand is a wonderful counrty but keep your life investments at home where you have a come back ....hopefully

[nanapong]

If you're buying gold only buy physical and don't touch ETFs. If the shit hits the fan your paper will be worth nothing but paper.

As far as price is concerned who knows. I noticed Goldman Sachs tipped it to go down to $1,000 so that probably means it's going to go up. Silver may be a better choice , again only physical.

If you want some hairy action try futures trading but only with what you can afford to lose.

Good luck.

[strabel23]

A friend of mine is doing well with the stock of Laotian electric company.

They have lots of projects to exploit hydroelectrical power and they are selling energy to other countries including Thailand.

Since Laos has state monopoly, the company is quite solid with no risks of competition.

It gives a fat dividend of about 10% a year and it is traded in the SET.

Worth checking.

Laotian electric company? never heard of it. Be more specific. what is the stck symbol?

[rick2014]

Why waste your time (and money) with low yield investments? If you want to invest in a private company that yields 30% ROI, contact me.

Rick